[M4IF Discuss] RE: [M4IF News] MPEG-4 Visual and Systems Lice nsing Announced!!

[Rob Koenen]

Good questions indeed. From what I have seen encoder and decoder together
*may* still be 25 cts per box (this is under point 2. in the license, but
I do not understand very well where a PVR would be categorized) although 
the cap is allways twice the 1 M$ (which you would hit at 4 million boxes).
I can't imagine that there is a 1.25 per channel fee, that would be 
end-of-game, but it cannot hurt having that formally confirmed from the 
lion's mouth.
Neither can I imagine end-users being on the line for paying a use fee when
they use PVRs, if only because royalties can be considered to have been 
paid elsewhere in the chain - but confirmation if this view would again
be a good thing.
It is an intersting case anyway what happens if the same set top box is used
to access services for multiple service providers - a stated goal for
MPEG-21.
The license seems to only reckon with the (currently dominant) model in
which
there is a one-to-one relation btween set top and service provider.
Keep the questions coming. MPEG LA, if I might suggest, could benefit from
having a FAQ.
Rob
ps: please refrain from cross-posting to the News list, it will make sure we
don't get multiple copies of the same discussion, and the News list was
set-up
for a different purpose than these discussions. Thanks for your
consideration.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fevzi Karavelioglu [mailto:fevzi   tivo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2023 11:23
> To: William J. Fulco
> Cc: Mikael Bourges-Sevenier; 'Rob Koenen'; 'M4IF news (E-mail)'; 'M4IF
> Discussion List (E-mail)'
> Subject: Re: [M4IF Discuss] RE: [M4IF News] MPEG-4 Visual and Systems
> Licensing Announced!!
> 
> 
> >OK - so let me get this straight...
> >
> >If say, SA, Mot or TiVo build an MPEG-4 set-top box they pay 
> $0.25 - OK,
> >fine. However if the user subscribes to a 200-channel 
> package on DirecTV or
> >Digital cable does this mean that every one of those channel
> >content-providers must pay $1.25 for a paid-up license to 
> distribute to that
> >box? So on a "basic package" - someone (who is likely?) must 
> pay $250 to
> >MPEG-LA per sub - if DirecTV has 20M subs by that time (and 
> they'vet gone
> >MPEG-4), does that mean they (or somebody) owes MPEG-LA $2.5Billion?
> 
> Good question.  The channel line ups change, and channels are 
> added and removed
> all the time.  How would you monitor/manage this?
> 
> In the case of TiVo it is likely each TiVo box built will 
> cost extra 50 cents
> since it may employ both a decoder and an encoder.
> 
> If it is true that billions of dollars would have to paid due 
> to $1.25 per
> channel then the MSOs cannot afford to adapt MPEG4.
> 
> Fevzi.
> 
> "William J. Fulco" wrote:
> 
> > This license's terms are much better...
> >
> > Clearly people like Apple and Real and such can just drop 
> the $1M (well,
> > maybe "drop" is too flip a word - sorry Dave :-) and 
> pay-off the license for
> > the year and then give away millions and millions of 
> encoders/decoders...
> > for the little garage-shop codec-implementation house, well 
> - this term
> > could be problematic... you're right about the "use for 3 
> days and then
> > discard", I've got a dozen codecs like that on my system 
> easily.... This is
> > going to be a tough one. I guess you could make your MPEG-4 
> codec expire - I
> > wonder how that is going to play to the licensing guys? Is 
> it "downloads" of
> > MPEG-4 codecs or is it "being used" codecs - I suspect it 
> is the former...
> >
> > Here's a question I had...
> >
> > A line in the press release:
> >
> > "Current cable television, direct satellite television and 
> over-the-air
> > broadcast that one day may allow a broadcaster to address 
> its broadcast to a
> > specific viewer or subscriber will pay a royalty of $0.25 
> for the right to
> > manufacture and sell each decoder and encoder and the party 
> providing
> > content service to the subscriber will pay a royalty of 
> $1.25 for the
> > paid-up right to use a decoder to decode and use encoded 
> MPEG-4 Visual
> > information."
> >
> > OK - so let me get this straight...
> >
> > If say, SA, Mot or TiVo build an MPEG-4 set-top box they 
> pay $0.25 - OK,
> > fine. However if the user subscribes to a 200-channel 
> package on DirecTV or
> > Digital cable does this mean that every one of those channel
> > content-providers must pay $1.25 for a paid-up license to 
> distribute to that
> > box? So on a "basic package" - someone (who is likely?) 
> must pay $250 to
> > MPEG-LA per sub - if DirecTV has 20M subs by that time (and 
> they'vet gone
> > MPEG-4), does that mean they (or somebody) owes MPEG-LA $2.5Billion?
> >
> > There is that implication about "addressable decoder" - so 
> does that mean
> > that only the premium-channels like HBO will have to pay 
> for each sub in a
> > system? If I have a premium-super-pack with dozens and dozens of
> > movie-channels do I/we/they have to pay (1.25 x (dozens and 
> dozens)) dollars
> > for this package?
> >
> > Maybe this better than $0.02/hour content fee - but I'm not 
> so sure it will
> > make CE MPEG-4 work for sat and cable systems. These 
> particular economics
> > would seem to favor delivery of TV programming to such 
> set-top devices via
> > broadband/web-site (Jordan will be happy) and not previous
> > delivery-infrastructure.
> >
> > But I digress...
> >
> > ++Bill
> > wjf   NetworkXXIII.com
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: discuss-admin   lists.m4if.org
> > > [mailto:discuss-admin   lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Mikael
> > > Bourges-Sevenier
> > > Sent: Monday, July 15, 2023 4:43 PM
> > > To: 'Rob Koenen'; 'M4IF news (E-mail)'; 'M4IF Discussion 
> List (E-mail)'
> > > Subject: [M4IF Discuss] RE: [M4IF News] MPEG-4 Visual and Systems
> > > Licensing Announced!!
> > >
> > >
> > > > > However, what happens to companies that provide a freely
> > > > downloadable
> > > > > player? If I read correctly, they are subject to the 
> $1M/y cap for
> > > > > video and $100k/y for Systems, am I correct?
> > > >
> > > > Sounds like it. If you are not in the video surveillance
> > > > business, you
> > > > may want to add Audio to your system (and you may even 
> like audio
> > > > if you *are* in the surveillance business).
> > > >
> > > > These companies also seem entitled to distribute the first
> > > > 50,000 systems for free. But given the fact that you only
> > > > mention the caps and not the per en/de-coder royalties, you
> > > > must be thinking Big.
> > >
> > > These days, an internet player with 'cool' contents can 
> easily reach
> > > 50000 installs/year even though many of them are often 
> installed for few
> > > days and removed. Then the million dollar question: is 
> there a 30-day
> > > money back guarantee? Just kidding ;-)
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> >
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