From dwu jdl.ac.cn Tue Nov 5 20:07:51 2002 From: dwu jdl.ac.cn (Wu Di) Date: Wed Jul 23 13:51:39 2003 Subject: [M4IF Discuss] Searching for ASP VM Message-ID: <002e01c284c3$f738d020$222ae29f@sky> Hi, all, I am designing the video codec for Adanced Simpile Profile. Now I have the MPEG-4 Video Verification Model for FGS, which includs not only the base layer - advanced simple profile but also the enhancement layer. However, I want to get a standalone VM for advanced simple profile, which can clarify the algorithms and tools involved for ASP. Can anybody tell me how to get it? Thanks, david -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/discuss/attachments/20021105/027f843b/attachment.html From dwu jdl.ac.cn Wed Nov 6 11:46:05 2002 From: dwu jdl.ac.cn (Wu Di) Date: Wed Jul 23 13:51:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Discuss] Question for "video_object_layer_verid" Message-ID: <001401c28547$08c1dc50$222ae29f@sky> Hi, all, I am confused by the parameter - "video_object_layer_verid" in VideoObjectLayer of Advance Simple Profile bitstream. When I use the VM for FGS to compress ASP bitstream, the "video_object_layer_verid" is "0010". But in the standard ASP bitstream, this field is "0101". The question is whether this field can be chosen from "0001", "0010", "0100" and "0101", or definitely be "0101". thanks. david -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/discuss/attachments/20021106/92d46c43/attachment.html From dwu jdl.ac.cn Wed Nov 6 22:35:56 2002 From: dwu jdl.ac.cn (Wu Di) Date: Wed Jul 23 13:51:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Discuss] A question Message-ID: <000a01c285a1$d1498380$222ae29f@sky> Hi, all, If there are no timestamps( PTS or DTS) in the MPEG-4 video stream, how to control the video decoder to work in real time and avoid the bit buffer neither overflow nor underflow. thanks, wudi. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/discuss/attachments/20021106/5bb8f34c/attachment.html From cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com Thu Nov 7 17:49:34 2002 From: cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com (cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com) Date: Wed Jul 23 13:51:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Discuss] Re: motion estimation, please advise Message-ID: Dear all, From mithun.nayak patni.com Thu Nov 7 16:00:57 2002 From: mithun.nayak patni.com (Mithun N) Date: Wed Jul 23 13:51:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Discuss] RE: [M4IF Technotes] Re: motion estimation, please advise In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00c301c28648$c2db1460$fe02a8c0@patni.com> hi i didnt understand your first question properly.. Could you clarify it a bit further?? As for the Motion estimation, there are papers available of the type of method to be used .. A combination of three step search and four step search is useful in case the motion isnt too much between 2 time instants. This method is generally called Majority Voting algorithm where the encoder decides between the 2 methods by using the surrounding macroblock motion vectors. This method is more useful if u plan to build a real time encoder. Else there are other methods such as Full Search.. which take a lot of processing time. regards Mithun Nayak -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2023 3:20 PM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Cc: discuss@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: motion estimation, please advise Dear all, >From previous questions on motion estimation, it can be done on Y component in each macroblock or combining a fraction of Cr and Cb together with Y into a 16x16 blocks for estimation. I would like to ask is there any further information on which method is better based on quality, speed and other performance? any source or papers comparing the performance of these two methods that I would find? Thanks very much. Regards, Clover --------------------------------------------- ?w??????HongKong.com?l???t?? Thank you for using hongkong.com Email system _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From rob.koenen m4if.org Thu Nov 7 09:01:38 2002 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 23 13:51:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Discuss] Re: motion estimation, please advise In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59011B3FC6@exchange.epr.com> Thanks Clover. Please keep these posts on the Technotes lists exclusively. Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com > [mailto:cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2023 1:50 > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Cc: discuss@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Discuss] Re: motion estimation, please advise > > > Dear all, > > From previous questions on motion estimation, it can be done > on Y component in each macroblock or combining a fraction of > Cr and Cb together with Y into a 16x16 blocks for estimation. > I would like to ask is there any further information on which > method is better based on quality, speed and other > performance? any source or papers comparing the performance > of these two methods that I would find? > Thanks very much. > > Regards, > Clover > --------------------------------------------- > ?w??????HongKong.com?l???t?? > Thank you for using hongkong.com Email system > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > From cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com Fri Nov 8 11:13:24 2002 From: cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com (cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com) Date: Wed Jul 23 13:51:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Discuss] Re: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Re: motion estimation, please advise Message-ID: Hi.. Thanks for your reply.... actually I would like to use PMVFAST method... but I don't know would there be help if using a combination of Y, Cr, Cb elements during the estimation in PMVFAST method. Besides, I am confused that, isn't that the same between different methods?as the criteria for finding a motion vector is by the minimum SAD value? regards, Clover > hi > i didnt understand your first question properly.. > Could you clarify it a bit further?? > As for the Motion estimation, there are papers > available of the type of method to be used .. > A combination of three step search and four step > search is useful in case the motion isnt too much > between 2 time instants. > This method is generally called Majority Voting > algorithm where the encoder decides between > the 2 methods by using the surrounding macroblock > motion vectors. > This method is more useful if u plan to build a > real time > encoder. > Else there are other methods such as Full Search.. > which take a lot of processing time. > regards > Mithun Nayak > > > -----Original Message----- > From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf > Of > cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2023 3:20 PM > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Cc: discuss@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: motion estimation, > please advise > > > Dear all, > > >From previous questions on motion estimation, it > can be done on Y component in each macroblock or > combining a fraction of Cr and Cb together with Y > into a 16x16 blocks for estimation. I would like > to ask is there any further information on which > method is better based on quality, speed and other > performance? any source or papers comparing the > performance of these two methods that I would > find? > Thanks very much. > > Regards, > Clover > --------------------------------------------- > 歡迎使用HongKong.com郵件系統 > Thank you for using hongkong.com Email system > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > ---------------------------------------------- 歡迎使用HongKong.com郵件系統 Thank you for using hongkong.com Email system From mithun.nayak patni.com Fri Nov 8 09:44:57 2002 From: mithun.nayak patni.com (Mithun N) Date: Wed Jul 23 13:51:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Discuss] RE: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Re: motion estimation, please advise In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001a01c286dd$665f2100$fe02a8c0@patni.com> Hi.. Motion estimation isnt performed on Cr and Cb components. As such I have no idea about the PMVFAST method. Guess its based on the diamond search method...with a large diamond and small diamond pattern. Ya but since all the methods are based on correlation between the 2 frames, they essentially need to find at what point in the reference frame, the correlation is maximum.(to achieve as small VLC for the error block as possible) The only difference between the methods is in the points at which the search is done in the reference frame. regards Mithun Nayak -----Original Message----- From: cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com [mailto:cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com] Sent: Friday, November 08, 2023 8:43 AM To: ; Cc: discuss@lists.m4if.org Subject: Re: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Re: motion estimation, please advise Hi.. Thanks for your reply.... actually I would like to use PMVFAST method... but I don't know would there be help if using a combination of Y, Cr, Cb elements during the estimation in PMVFAST method. Besides, I am confused that, isn't that the same between different methods?as the criteria for finding a motion vector is by the minimum SAD value? regards, Clover > hi > i didnt understand your first question properly.. > Could you clarify it a bit further?? > As for the Motion estimation, there are papers > available of the type of method to be used .. > A combination of three step search and four step > search is useful in case the motion isnt too much > between 2 time instants. > This method is generally called Majority Voting > algorithm where the encoder decides between > the 2 methods by using the surrounding macroblock > motion vectors. > This method is more useful if u plan to build a > real time > encoder. > Else there are other methods such as Full Search.. > which take a lot of processing time. > regards > Mithun Nayak > > > -----Original Message----- > From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf > Of > cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2023 3:20 PM > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Cc: discuss@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: motion estimation, > please advise > > > Dear all, > > >From previous questions on motion estimation, it > can be done on Y component in each macroblock or > combining a fraction of Cr and Cb together with Y > into a 16x16 blocks for estimation. I would like > to ask is there any further information on which > method is better based on quality, speed and other > performance? any source or papers comparing the > performance of these two methods that I would > find? > Thanks very much. > > Regards, > Clover > --------------------------------------------- > ?w??????HongKong.com?l???t?? > Thank you for using hongkong.com Email system > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > ---------------------------------------------- ?w??????HongKong.com?l???t?? Thank you for using hongkong.com Email system From ben interframemedia.com Mon Nov 11 13:06:50 2002 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 23 13:51:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Discuss] Call for MPEG-4 Encoders - Robert X. Cringely project Message-ID: Everybody, Okay, I've got a Big Deal to announce. Robert X. Cringely, computer industry journalist and broadcaster extraordinaire, is launching a new internet talk show, NerdTV, using MPEG-4 technology. Anyone familiar with Bob's past PBS series like "The Triumph of the Nerds" and his seminal book "Accidental Empires" knows this is a big deal. Here are some past columns from him describing this project, in chronological order: http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20020321.html http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20020328.html http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20020912.html http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20020704.html I've been consulting with him on the media delivery technologies part of the project, and we've decided that it's progressive download MPEG-4 all the way for the video part. Users will even be welcome to download and edit the camera sources, and edit together their own versions! All going well, this will be the first really big public use of MPEG-4, and while we picked the technology on its own merits, it's my hope that this can help jump start the industry some in the video-playing-on-computers market. The next phase of the project is to pick the right encoder, hence this email. We're doing an open call for encoders for evaluation for this project. Since I've got relationships with a number of vendors, I'm going to do all the testing, but Bob's going to pick the final results he likes best. I've talked to some encoder vendors directly, but wanted to make a public call to any companies who would like to submit their software. As an added bonus, I'll be doing an article for DV about the process of designing the media technologies for this project, including how we went about picking an encoder. So, here is the basic constraints we're looking for in the file, and I'm happy to look at any encoder that can meet these specs: Compatible with playback with ISMA Profile 1, QuickTime 6.0.2, Envivio plug-in, and MPEG4IP. Progressive download compatible file (MooV atom at the front of the file) Total data rate of 100-120 Kbps (2-pass VBR would be welcome). We'll be tweaking with the right resolution and data rate, but compression efficiency provided by the tool will be a major factor in our decision. Simple Visual video AAC-LC audio (should be able to do 22.050 mono at 20 Kbps) Source will be progressive PAL DV. It'll probably be in QuickTime format, but a transcode to .AVI might be possible. Anyone interested in providing an encoder for evaluation, drop me a private note at ben@benwaggoner.com Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding My Book: http://www.benwaggoner.com/books.htm Cleaner Tutorial: http://www.saferseas.com/navseries/adclean.html Compression Books: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm From dwu jdl.ac.cn Wed Nov 13 08:39:06 2002 From: dwu jdl.ac.cn (David) Date: Wed Jul 23 13:51:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Discuss] Slice Resynchronization Message-ID: <003b01c28aad$1294c470$222ae29f@sky> Hi, all, Slice Resynchronization is one of visual tools for error resilience. How to realize the function in MPEG-4 encoder? What corresponds to it the visual bitstream? Thanks, david -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/discuss/attachments/20021113/48d36f70/attachment.html From rob.koenen m4if.org Tue Nov 12 17:03:27 2002 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 23 13:51:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Discuss] Slice Resynchronization In-Reply-To: <003b01c28aad$1294c470$222ae29f@sky> Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59011B407C@exchange.epr.com> Once again, A plea to not post technical questions to the Discuss list. If you are confused about where to post, please review http://www.m4if.org/public/publiclistreg.php Best, Rob -----Original Message----- From: David [mailto:dwu@jdl.ac.cn] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2023 16:39 To: discuss@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Discuss] Slice Resynchronization Hi, all, Slice Resynchronization is one of visual tools for error resilience. How to realize the function in MPEG-4 encoder? What corresponds to it the visual bitstream? Thanks, david -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/discuss/attachments/20021112/5bc6f2a2/attachment.html From moorsr2 yahoo.com Tue Nov 12 22:07:03 2002 From: moorsr2 yahoo.com (rama moorthy) Date: Wed Jul 23 13:51:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Discuss] IS MPEg4 simple profile doesn't contain shape coding Message-ID: <20021113060703.82764.qmail@web11608.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, I have a question MPEG4 simple profile does not contain any Shape coding block? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 From rob.koenen m4if.org Tue Nov 12 23:18:59 2002 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 23 13:51:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Discuss] IS MPEg4 simple profile doesn't contain shape coding In-Reply-To: <20021113060703.82764.qmail@web11608.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59011B4083@exchange.epr.com> To prevent further off-topic postings to this list, all posts will need explicit approval until further notice. Apologies for the technical posts to this non-technical discussion list. Rob From rob.koenen m4if.org Wed Nov 13 15:06:45 2002 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 23 13:51:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Discuss] Patent page updated Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59011B40A8@exchange.epr.com> Discuss list members, the patent page on the M4IF website was just updated with 4 presentations, given at a recent meeting. This meeting discussed patent licensing for the upcoming MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 codec. See http://www.m4if.org/patents/ The presentations were by Dave Lindbergh and Larry Horn. They are all marked "14 Oct '02" Kind Regards, Rob Koenen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/discuss/attachments/20021113/334059ad/attachment.html From rob.koenen m4if.org Mon Nov 25 14:34:48 2002 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 23 13:51:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Discuss] MPEG-4 Visual License available Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59011B425B@exchange.epr.com> Discuss list, MPEG LA today issued a press release announcing the availability of the MPEG-4 Visual Patent Portfolio License. See http://www.mpegla.com/news/n_02-11-25_m4v.html The release doesn't give any more details on the license, but does have a list of portfolio participants, apparently unchanged from the previous announcement in July. It is important to note that the release also embodies a call for any patent essential to any technology of MPEG-4 Visual (This means that the call covers all profiles, and even a bit more, because there are a few elements in MPEG-4 Visual that are not in any profile.) On MPEG LA's website, you can find what is probably the most authoritative presentation on the license, as well as a link to request a copy of the license. See http://www.mpegla.com/mpeg4v/m4v_agreement.html Kind Regards, Rob Koenen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/discuss/attachments/20021125/195cea0d/attachment.html