From hans-juergen.bardenhagen arcor.de Tue Nov 2 00:02:13 2004 From: hans-juergen.bardenhagen arcor.de (Hans-Juergen Bardenhagen) Date: Tue Nov 2 02:20:19 2004 Subject: [MPEGIF Discuss] RSS news feed for MPEGIF site? Message-ID: <9K6A0hFETuB@ID-50271.user.uni-berlin.de> Hi, I'm not sure if this question is adequate for this list, but being the new Open Directory Project editor for the MPEG-4 Audio category I would like to know if such a news feed based on XML is perhaps already planned for the MPEGIF site. In my opinion it would make sense to have one, because the amount of news articles justifies it and could provide an interesting service for all involved parties. And a separate RSS feed of any site would be listed in a special section of the ODP categories. By the way, the MPEGIF site has just been added to ODP in the MPEG category: http://dmoz.org/Computers/Multimedia/MPEG The ODP is an URL database for many search engines including Google, AOL and others. ZZee ya, Hans-J?rgen From rob.koenen mpegif.org Tue Nov 2 15:15:44 2004 From: rob.koenen mpegif.org (Rob Koenen) Date: Tue Nov 2 09:44:05 2004 Subject: [MPEGIF Discuss] RSS news feed for MPEGIF site? In-Reply-To: <9K6A0hFETuB@ID-50271.user.uni-berlin.de> Message-ID: <20041102141553.DACF31827A@olive.qinip.net> Hans-J?rgen, this is a good idea - we actually discussed doing this a while back. Because the website currently fully depends on the work of volunteers, and we had a few other priorities, it hasn't been pursued yet. We may return to the issue in the future, but not making any promises now. Best, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: discuss-bounces@lists.mpegif.org > [mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of > Hans-Juergen Bardenhagen > Sent: Tuesday, 2 November 2023 00:46 > To: discuss@lists.mpegif.org > Subject: [MPEGIF Discuss] RSS news feed for MPEGIF site? > > Hi, > > I'm not sure if this question is adequate for this list, but > being the > new Open Directory Project editor for the MPEG-4 Audio > category dmoz.org/Computers/Multimedia/Music_and_Audio/Audio_Formats/MP > EG-4> I > would like to know if such a news feed based on XML is > perhaps already > planned for the MPEGIF site. In my opinion it would make > sense to have > one, because the amount of news articles justifies it and > could provide > an interesting service for all involved parties. And a > separate RSS feed > of any site would be listed in a special section of the ODP > categories. > > By the way, the MPEGIF site has just been added to ODP in the MPEG > category: > > http://dmoz.org/Computers/Multimedia/MPEG > > The ODP is an URL database for many search engines including > Google, AOL > and others. > > ZZee ya, Hans-J?rgen > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@lists.mpegif.org > http://lists.mpegif.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust > guidelines found at > http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Anti > trust.php > From hans-juergen.bardenhagen arcor.de Fri Nov 5 08:30:09 2004 From: hans-juergen.bardenhagen arcor.de (Hans-Juergen Bardenhagen) Date: Fri Nov 5 05:10:30 2004 Subject: [MPEGIF Discuss] RSS news feed for MPEGIF site? In-Reply-To: <20041102141553.DACF31827A@olive.qinip.net> Message-ID: <9KIAx-JETuB@ID-50271.user.uni-berlin.de> Hi Rob, on 02.11.04, 15:15 local time (received 02.11.04, 20:15 GMT+1) you wrote: > this is a good idea - we actually discussed doing this a while back. > Because the website currently fully depends on the work of > volunteers, and we had a few other priorities, it hasn't been pursued > yet. We may return to the issue in the future, but not making any > promises now. It seems that such a site providing MPEG-4 related news and listing several RSS feeds already exists: http://www.mpeg4.net/ Do you know by chance if they are affiliated with the ISMA or other official committees perhaps? ZZee ya, Hans-J?rgen From rob.koenen mpegif.org Fri Nov 5 11:06:53 2004 From: rob.koenen mpegif.org (Rob Koenen) Date: Fri Nov 5 08:06:53 2004 Subject: [MPEGIF Discuss] RSS news feed for MPEGIF site? In-Reply-To: <9KIAx-JETuB@ID-50271.user.uni-berlin.de> Message-ID: <20041105100651.CDED418398@olive.qinip.net> There is no affiliation that I know of. The site bears some striking similarities to MPEGIF's website, through no doing of MPEGIF, although less so today than in the past. It once listed a verbatim copy of The MPEG-4 Overview that was compiled by MPEG, only with the MPEG header replaced with a different one. It took quite some effort to get it removed. Other than that, I don't know these guys. Maybe someone else does. Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: discuss-bounces@lists.mpegif.org > [mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of > Hans-Juergen Bardenhagen > Sent: Friday, 5 November 2023 09:12 > To: discuss@lists.mpegif.org > Subject: Re: [MPEGIF Discuss] RSS news feed for MPEGIF site? > > Hi Rob, > > on 02.11.04, 15:15 local time (received 02.11.04, 20:15 > GMT+1) you wrote: > > > this is a good idea - we actually discussed doing this a while back. > > Because the website currently fully depends on the work of > > volunteers, and we had a few other priorities, it hasn't > been pursued > > yet. We may return to the issue in the future, but not making any > > promises now. > > It seems that such a site providing MPEG-4 related news and listing > several RSS feeds already exists: > > http://www.mpeg4.net/ > > Do you know by chance if they are affiliated with the ISMA or other > official committees perhaps? > > ZZee ya, Hans-J?rgen > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@lists.mpegif.org > http://lists.mpegif.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust > guidelines found at > http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Anti > trust.php > From tolsen718 gmail.com Mon Nov 8 14:37:56 2004 From: tolsen718 gmail.com (Tim Olsen) Date: Mon Nov 8 17:30:49 2004 Subject: [MPEGIF Discuss] royalties for distibuting a player Message-ID: <4be80d8404110811375c37f098@mail.gmail.com> Hello. Am I correct in thinking that if I were to distribute a free MPEG-4 player with less than 50,000 downloads per year and the file format it read was AVI, I would not have to pay any royalties? To make it more concrete, lets say I was using the Xvid and AAC codecs. Would I be subject to an MPEG Systems royalty if I were to use the MP4 file format? does the 50,000 downloads still matter if the player I'm distributing is free? thanks for your help. -Tim From holger.grahn bitmanagement.de Tue Nov 9 01:25:51 2004 From: holger.grahn bitmanagement.de (Holger Grahn - Bitmanagement) Date: Mon Nov 8 20:04:51 2004 Subject: [MPEGIF Discuss] royalties for distibuting a player References: <4be80d8404110811375c37f098@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <011701c4c5f2$abbe27e0$0502a8c0@Maximum> Hi Tim Here is a table from Microsoft comparing royalties of Windows Media versus MPEG-2 & MPEG-4 http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/licensing/licensing.aspx Even if you use the AVI container, your would still need MPEG-4 video decoding and Dolby/MPEG licence cost for AAC depending on channel count. Greetings Holger ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olsen" To: Sent: Monday, November 08, 2023 8:37 PM Subject: [MPEGIF Discuss] royalties for distibuting a player > Hello. > > Am I correct in thinking that if I were to distribute a free MPEG-4 > player with less than 50,000 downloads per year and the file format it > read was AVI, I would not have to pay any royalties? To make it more > concrete, lets say I was using the Xvid and AAC codecs. > > Would I be subject to an MPEG Systems royalty if I were to use the MP4 > file format? > > does the 50,000 downloads still matter if the player I'm distributing is > free? > > thanks for your help. > > -Tim From tolsen718 gmail.com Mon Nov 8 23:39:30 2004 From: tolsen718 gmail.com (Tim Olsen) Date: Tue Nov 9 18:43:03 2004 Subject: [MPEGIF Discuss] royalties for distibuting a player In-Reply-To: <011701c4c5f2$abbe27e0$0502a8c0@Maximum> References: <4be80d8404110811375c37f098@mail.gmail.com> <011701c4c5f2$abbe27e0$0502a8c0@Maximum> Message-ID: <4be80d8404110820396da17ade@mail.gmail.com> Both of which have a 50,000 unit floor. I guess what I'm really asking is, am I using any MPEG-4 Systems technology if I restrict the player to using Xvid and AAC inside the AVI container? It appears to me that the MPEG-4 Systems license is the only one of the three ( Visual and Audio being the other two) that does not have 50,000 unit floor. That's why I'm trying to avoid using that technology. thanks, Tim On Tue, 9 Nov 2023 01:25:51 +0100, Holger Grahn - Bitmanagement wrote: > > Even if you use the AVI container, your would still need MPEG-4 video > decoding and Dolby/MPEG licence cost for AAC depending on channel count. > > Greetings > Holger > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Olsen" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2023 8:37 PM > Subject: [MPEGIF Discuss] royalties for distibuting a player > > > Hello. > > > > Am I correct in thinking that if I were to distribute a free MPEG-4 > > player with less than 50,000 downloads per year and the file format it > > read was AVI, I would not have to pay any royalties? To make it more > > concrete, lets say I was using the Xvid and AAC codecs. > > > > Would I be subject to an MPEG Systems royalty if I were to use the MP4 > > file format? > > > > does the 50,000 downloads still matter if the player I'm distributing is > > free? > > > > thanks for your help. > > > > -Tim > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@lists.mpegif.org > http://lists.mpegif.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php > From grl iis.fhg.de Tue Nov 9 07:42:39 2004 From: grl iis.fhg.de (Bernhard Grill) Date: Tue Nov 9 18:46:38 2004 Subject: [MPEGIF Discuss] royalties for distibuting a player In-Reply-To: <011701c4c5f2$abbe27e0$0502a8c0@Maximum> References: <4be80d8404110811375c37f098@mail.gmail.com> <011701c4c5f2$abbe27e0$0502a8c0@Maximum> Message-ID: <419066DF.80803@iis.fhg.de> Holger Grahn - Bitmanagement wrote: > > Hi Tim > > Here is a table from Microsoft comparing royalties of Windows Media > versus MPEG-2 & MPEG-4 > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/licensing/licensing.aspx > > Even if you use the AVI container, your would still need MPEG-4 video > decoding and Dolby/MPEG licence cost for AAC depending on channel count. > Holger, the website you mention compares ASF and MPEG-4 Systems licensing terms which are probably two very different sets of technologies. MPEG-4 Systems includes many components like BIFS or the ISO file format. You can find the list of MPEG-4 Systems patents covered by the MPEGLA MPEG-4 Systems licensing program at http://www.mpegla.com/m4s/m4s-patentlist.cfm. Unfortunately, MPEGLA offers no separate licensing programs for the various MPEG-4 Systems components. Potential users have to figure out on their own which patents read on which part of MPEG-4 Systems and whether certain parts are covered by these patents or not. Regarding AAC: the only AAC licensing program I'm aware of is offered by VIA Licensing (www.vialicensing.com). Regards, Bernhard Grill > Greetings > Holger > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olsen" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2023 8:37 PM > Subject: [MPEGIF Discuss] royalties for distibuting a player > > >> Hello. >> >> Am I correct in thinking that if I were to distribute a free MPEG-4 >> player with less than 50,000 downloads per year and the file format it >> read was AVI, I would not have to pay any royalties? To make it more >> concrete, lets say I was using the Xvid and AAC codecs. >> >> Would I be subject to an MPEG Systems royalty if I were to use the MP4 >> file format? >> >> does the 50,000 downloads still matter if the player I'm distributing >> is free? >> >> thanks for your help. >> >> -Tim > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@lists.mpegif.org > http://lists.mpegif.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines > found at > http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php -- Dr. Bernhard Grill email: grl@iis.fhg.de Head of Audio Department, Fraunhofer IIS phone: +49 9131 776-351 Am Wolfsmantel 33, D-91058 Erlangen, Germany FAX: +49 9131 776-398 From LHorn mpegla.com Wed Nov 10 07:03:44 2004 From: LHorn mpegla.com (Larry Horn) Date: Wed Nov 10 10:32:39 2004 Subject: [MPEGIF Discuss] royalties for distibuting a player Message-ID: <7BAD466AD0867D4FA63BE853C3E35BB6DA3D09@mail2k3.mpegla.com> Hi, Tim. I have seen the discussion thread. If you have questions about the MPEG-4 Visual Patent Portfolio or MPEG-4 Systems Patent Portfolio License, please get in touch directly with Dean Skandalis who is copied on this email or provide Dean with a way to reach you. As you apparently are aware, the MPEG-4 Visual Patent Portfolio License offered by MPEG LA includes annual minimum thresholds of 50,000 units (per legal entity but no more than one in an affiliated group) for the manufacture and sale of MPEG-4 Visual decoders before royalties are payable. Therefore, to the extent you distribute 50,000 or fewer MPEG-4 video decoders in a year, no royalty would be payable for the manufacture and sale of such decoders under the MPEG-4 Visual Patent Portfolio License. After the first 50,000 units each year, the royalty is $0.25 per unit for the manufacture and sale of MPEG-4 Visual Decoders (up to an annual maximum cap of $1M per legal entity). Under the MPEG-4 Systems Patent Portfolio License, as you also seem to be aware, royalties are payable beginning with the first product which uses MPEG-4 Systems; there are no thresholds. Therefore, if your player can decode MP4 File Format data files as you note, it would be subject to a royalty of $0.15 per unit under the MPEG-4 Systems Patent Portfolio License (up to an annual maximum cap of $100,000 per legal entity). In the case of both the MPEG-4 Visual License and the MPEG-4 Systems License, no distinction is made for products that are offered without charge - they are treated the same as any other products which use the technology. Meanwhile, for questions about licensing AAC, I suggest you contact Via Licensing for more information. I hope this is helpful, but Dean Skandalis will be glad to address additional questions you may have. Best regards, Larry Horn Vice President, Licensing -----Original Message----- From: discuss-bounces@lists.mpegif.org [mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of Tim Olsen Sent: Monday, November 08, 2023 11:40 PM To: Holger Grahn - Bitmanagement Cc: discuss@lists.mpegif.org Subject: Re: [MPEGIF Discuss] royalties for distibuting a player Both of which have a 50,000 unit floor. I guess what I'm really asking is, am I using any MPEG-4 Systems technology if I restrict the player to using Xvid and AAC inside the AVI container? It appears to me that the MPEG-4 Systems license is the only one of the three ( Visual and Audio being the other two) that does not have 50,000 unit floor. That's why I'm trying to avoid using that technology. thanks, Tim On Tue, 9 Nov 2023 01:25:51 +0100, Holger Grahn - Bitmanagement wrote: > > Even if you use the AVI container, your would still need MPEG-4 video > decoding and Dolby/MPEG licence cost for AAC depending on channel count. > > Greetings > Holger > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Olsen" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2023 8:37 PM > Subject: [MPEGIF Discuss] royalties for distibuting a player > > > Hello. > > > > Am I correct in thinking that if I were to distribute a free MPEG-4 > > player with less than 50,000 downloads per year and the file format it > > read was AVI, I would not have to pay any royalties? To make it more > > concrete, lets say I was using the Xvid and AAC codecs. > > > > Would I be subject to an MPEG Systems royalty if I were to use the MP4 > > file format? > > > > does the 50,000 downloads still matter if the player I'm distributing is > > free? > > > > thanks for your help. > > > > -Tim > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@lists.mpegif.org > http://lists.mpegif.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php > _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.mpegif.org http://lists.mpegif.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php From tolsen718 gmail.com Wed Nov 10 21:06:13 2004 From: tolsen718 gmail.com (Tim Olsen) Date: Thu Nov 11 01:55:18 2004 Subject: [MPEGIF Discuss] royalties for distibuting a player In-Reply-To: <7BAD466AD0867D4FA63BE853C3E35BB6DA3D09@mail2k3.mpegla.com> References: <7BAD466AD0867D4FA63BE853C3E35BB6DA3D09@mail2k3.mpegla.com> Message-ID: <4be80d840411101806122f20ee@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Larry. I think you've answered my questions adequately. -Tim On Wed, 10 Nov 2023 07:03:44 -0700, Larry Horn wrote: > Hi, Tim. > > I have seen the discussion thread. If you have questions about the > MPEG-4 Visual Patent Portfolio or MPEG-4 Systems Patent Portfolio > License, please get in touch directly with Dean Skandalis who is copied > on this email or provide Dean with a way to reach you. > > As you apparently are aware, the MPEG-4 Visual Patent Portfolio License > offered by MPEG LA includes annual minimum thresholds of 50,000 units > (per legal entity but no more than one in an affiliated group) for the > manufacture and sale of MPEG-4 Visual decoders before royalties are > payable. Therefore, to the extent you distribute 50,000 or fewer MPEG-4 > video decoders in a year, no royalty would be payable for the > manufacture and sale of such decoders under the MPEG-4 Visual Patent > Portfolio License. After the first 50,000 units each year, the royalty > is $0.25 per unit for the manufacture and sale of MPEG-4 Visual Decoders > (up to an annual maximum cap of $1M per legal entity). > > Under the MPEG-4 Systems Patent Portfolio License, as you also seem to > be aware, royalties are payable beginning with the first product which > uses MPEG-4 Systems; there are no thresholds. Therefore, if your player > can decode MP4 File Format data files as you note, it would be subject > to a royalty of $0.15 per unit under the MPEG-4 Systems Patent Portfolio > License (up to an annual maximum cap of $100,000 per legal entity). > > In the case of both the MPEG-4 Visual License and the MPEG-4 Systems > License, no distinction is made for products that are offered without > charge - they are treated the same as any other products which use the > technology. > > Meanwhile, for questions about licensing AAC, I suggest you contact Via > Licensing for more information. > > I hope this is helpful, but Dean Skandalis will be glad to address > additional questions you may have. > > Best regards, > Larry Horn > Vice President, Licensing > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: discuss-bounces@lists.mpegif.org > [mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of Tim Olsen > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2023 11:40 PM > To: Holger Grahn - Bitmanagement > Cc: discuss@lists.mpegif.org > Subject: Re: [MPEGIF Discuss] royalties for distibuting a player > > Both of which have a 50,000 unit floor. I guess what I'm really > asking is, am I using any MPEG-4 Systems technology if I restrict the > player to using Xvid and AAC inside the AVI container? > > It appears to me that the MPEG-4 Systems license is the only one of > the three ( Visual and Audio being the other two) that does not have > 50,000 unit floor. That's why I'm trying to avoid using that > technology. > > thanks, > Tim > > On Tue, 9 Nov 2023 01:25:51 +0100, Holger Grahn - Bitmanagement > wrote: > > > > Even if you use the AVI container, your would still need MPEG-4 video > > decoding and Dolby/MPEG licence cost for AAC depending on channel > count. > > > > Greetings > > Holger > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tim Olsen" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2023 8:37 PM > > Subject: [MPEGIF Discuss] royalties for distibuting a player > > > > > Hello. > > > > > > Am I correct in thinking that if I were to distribute a free MPEG-4 > > > player with less than 50,000 downloads per year and the file format > it > > > read was AVI, I would not have to pay any royalties? To make it > more > > > concrete, lets say I was using the Xvid and AAC codecs. > > > > > > Would I be subject to an MPEG Systems royalty if I were to use the > MP4 > > > file format? > > > > > > does the 50,000 downloads still matter if the player I'm > distributing is > > > free? > > > > > > thanks for your help. > > > > > > -Tim > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss@lists.mpegif.org > > http://lists.mpegif.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust > guidelines found at > http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@lists.mpegif.org > http://lists.mpegif.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines > found at > http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php > >