From dennyw lumictech.com Fri Nov 2 14:11:19 2001 From: dennyw lumictech.com (Denny Wong) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:12 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] VLC escape codes Message-ID: <00d901c163d2$27aa2ab0$4a14000a@lumictech.com> I've been looking at both the MPEG-4 standard (up to Technical Corrigendum 2) and the MPEG-4 verification model v18.0. I've noticed that there is a discrepency as far as the escape codes go. The standard refers to: Type 1: ESC + "0" Type 2: ESC + "10" Type 3: ESC + "11" The verification model is similar, but has the following escape codes: Type 1: ESC + "1" Type 2: ESC + "01" Type 3: ESC + "00" Am I interpreting something wrong here? If not, which is the right one? Denny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011102/d042087b/attachment.html From Peter.Haighton m4if.org Fri Nov 2 14:48:12 2001 From: Peter.Haighton m4if.org (Peter Haighton) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:12 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] VLC escape codes In-Reply-To: <00d901c163d2$27aa2ab0$4a14000a@lumictech.com> Message-ID: Denny, The correct escape codes are Type 1: ESC + "0" Type 2: ESC + "10" Type 3: ESC + "11" The specification is correct. It seems that the VM not only disagrees with the specification, it also contradicts itself since earlier in the VM it agrees with the standard. Peter -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Denny Wong Sent: Friday, November 02, 2023 2:11 PM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] VLC escape codes I've been looking at both the MPEG-4 standard (up to Technical Corrigendum 2) and the MPEG-4 verification model v18.0. I've noticed that there is a discrepency as far as the escape codes go. The standard refers to: Type 1: ESC + "0" Type 2: ESC + "10" Type 3: ESC + "11" The verification model is similar, but has the following escape codes: Type 1: ESC + "1" Type 2: ESC + "01" Type 3: ESC + "00" Am I interpreting something wrong here? If not, which is the right one? Denny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011102/e39c12f7/attachment.html From the_ether btinternet.com Tue Nov 6 23:57:24 2001 From: the_ether btinternet.com (the_ether) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:12 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] H26L Message-ID: <027501c1671f$6f9271c0$db2023d9@opsus> Anyone know where I can get a technical description of H26L? I've heard that it is likely that this will become part of MPEG-4. Anyone know of companies already working on MPEG-4 codecs that will use H26L? Regards graham From garysull microsoft.com Tue Nov 6 16:55:42 2001 From: garysull microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:12 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] H26L Message-ID: <0170DDAD0BADFA4CBEC3B55A0748DCCC040EF449@red-msg-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> +> Anyone know where I can get a technical description of H26L? See http://standard.pictel.com/ftp/video-site/h26L/tml8.doc Best Regards, -Gary S. I've been "encouraged" to share this helpful information from our lawyers. This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. You assume all risk for your use. (c) 2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. +> -----Original Message----- +> From: the_ether [mailto:the_ether@btinternet.com] +> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2023 3:57 PM +> To: technotes@lists.m4if.org +> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] H26L +> +> +> Anyone know where I can get a technical description of H26L? +> +> I've heard that it is likely that this will become part of +> MPEG-4. Anyone +> know of companies already working on MPEG-4 codecs that will +> use H26L? +> +> Regards +> +> graham +> +> _______________________________________________ +> Technotes mailing list +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes +> From gautam noida.hcltech.com Wed Nov 7 13:07:49 2001 From: gautam noida.hcltech.com (Gautam Kumar) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:12 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Few Queries on streaming video profile!!! Message-ID: Hello Everybody, Can anyone help me with followings: 1 ) The test streams of streaming video profile. 2) what are the features supported by the streaming video profile. To be precise are the following features present in it : a) B VOP b) shape infomation c) what kind of scalability The relevent document would be more helpful. awaiting reply. Thanks and regards Gautam Kumar From AYeung tvia.com Wed Nov 7 11:20:43 2001 From: AYeung tvia.com (Angus Yeung) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:12 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] BIFS profiles for Set-top box Message-ID: Hello there, I want to get general feedbacks on BIFS profiles from people in set-top box industry. Is there a general consensus on what graphics and scene profiles (e.g., Core2D) should be used? Are there any activities or plan in DVB-MHP, ATSC, OpenCABLE, etc? Thanks, Angus Yeung From ben interframemedia.com Wed Nov 7 13:39:10 2001 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:12 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Complete list of Profiles anywhere Message-ID: Hello, Is there a more updated list of MPEG-4 profiles than that in the overview document at: http://mpeg.telecomitalialab.com/standards/mpeg-4/mpeg-4.htm I know some others have been considered for digital cinema or such. Any of them approved, or close to it? Listed anywhere? Ben Waggoner Interframe Media Digital Video Compression Consulting, Training, and Encoding From garysull microsoft.com Wed Nov 7 14:09:43 2001 From: garysull microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:12 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Complete list of Profiles anywhere Message-ID: <0170DDAD0BADFA4CBEC3B55A0748DCCC040EF44B@red-msg-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Ben et al, That MPEG-4 Overview is a little out of date. I'm pretty sure we produced an improved one in Singapore, but I guess the new one hasn't made it to that web site yet. In particular the old one lists some things in section 4.1 that have been finished for a while. The latest video profiles and levels that were finalized and approved earlier this year include the Studio profile, the Fine Granularity Scalability profile, the Advanced Simple Profile, and Level 0 of the Simple profile. (At least those are the ones I recall off the top of my head.) Yes, new work is in progress for the future. See the press release of the Sydney meeting: http://mpeg.telecomitalialab.com/sydney/sydney_press.htm. There are three areas of new work that come to my mind: 1) A new video coding project for improved compression quality that may be developed jointly with ITU-T 2) Digital Cinema work, starting initially with comparisons to the MPEG-4 Studio Profile 3) A new amendment to MPEG-4 visual adding some relatively small new features (new levels of existing profiles and an alpha channel for VTC). Best Regards, Gary Sullivan +> -----Original Message----- +> From: Ben Waggoner [mailto:ben@interframemedia.com] +> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2023 1:39 PM +> To: 'technotes@lists.m4if.org' +> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Complete list of Profiles anywhere +> +> +> Hello, +> +> Is there a more updated list of MPEG-4 profiles than that in the +> overview document at: +> http://mpeg.telecomitalialab.com/standards/mpeg-4/mpeg-4.htm I know some others have been considered for digital cinema or such. Any of them approved, or close to it? Listed anywhere? Ben Waggoner Interframe Media Digital Video Compression Consulting, Training, and Encoding _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From pang ati.com Wed Nov 7 17:21:27 2001 From: pang ati.com (Patrick Ng) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:12 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Deblocking filter Message-ID: <917FBA8D767CD111BFA600805FBB2C24057F9FFE@tchwexh01.to.atitech.com> Dear MPEG-4 experts, In the case of Reduced Resolution VOP mode, in the MPEG-4 spec., it says "Block Boundary filtering shall be performed along the edges of the 16x16 reconstructed block data.......The filtering is performed on the complete reconstructed VOP data before storing the data in the frame memory for future prediction." If another deblocking filter is to be implemented at the decoder as a post-processing operation, should it be bypassed in Reduced Resolution VOP mode to avoid double filtering? If not, since the deblocking filter operates along the 8x8 block edges while the block size in Reduced Resolution is 16x16, would the filtering create undesirable effect within a decoded block in Reduced Resolution? Thanks Patrick Ng -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011107/4548c9a4/attachment.html From rkoenen intertrust.com Wed Nov 7 14:56:44 2001 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:12 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Complete list of Profiles anywhere Message-ID: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04BD9B43@exchange.epr.com> The new MPEG-4 Overview is on its way. I recently did a book article with an overview of all of the profiles, so I have something to reuse. Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Sullivan [mailto:garysull@microsoft.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2023 2:10 PM > To: Ben Waggoner; technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Complete list of Profiles anywhere > > > > Ben et al, > > That MPEG-4 Overview is a little out of date. I'm pretty sure we > produced an improved one in Singapore, but I guess the new one hasn't > made it to that web site yet. In particular the old one lists some > things in section 4.1 that have been finished for a while. The latest > video profiles and levels that were finalized and approved > earlier this > year include the Studio profile, the Fine Granularity Scalability > profile, the Advanced Simple Profile, and Level 0 of the > Simple profile. > (At least those are the ones I recall off the top of my head.) > > Yes, new work is in progress for the future. See > the press release of the Sydney meeting: > http://mpeg.telecomitalialab.com/sydney/sydney_press.htm. > There are three areas of new work that come to my mind: > 1) A new video coding project for improved compression quality > that may be developed jointly with ITU-T > 2) Digital Cinema work, starting initially with comparisons to the > MPEG-4 Studio Profile > 3) A new amendment to MPEG-4 visual adding some relatively small new > features > (new levels of existing profiles and an alpha channel for VTC). > > Best Regards, > > Gary Sullivan > > +> -----Original Message----- > +> From: Ben Waggoner [mailto:ben@interframemedia.com] > +> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2023 1:39 PM > +> To: 'technotes@lists.m4if.org' > +> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Complete list of Profiles anywhere > +> > +> > +> Hello, > +> > +> Is there a more updated list of MPEG-4 profiles than > that in the > +> overview document at: > +> > http://mpeg.telecomitalialab.com/standards/mpeg-4/mpeg-4.htm > > I know some others have been considered for digital > cinema or such. > Any > of them approved, or close to it? Listed anywhere? > > Ben Waggoner > Interframe Media > Digital Video Compression Consulting, Training, and Encoding > > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From rkoenen intertrust.com Wed Nov 7 16:16:34 2001 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:12 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Few Queries on streaming video profile!!! Message-ID: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04BD9B56@exchange.epr.com> > 1 ) The test streams of streaming video profile. Can be obtained from ISO. See Hot News Section on www.m4if.org "Streaming Video Profiles Final Draft Amendment (14496-2:2001 FDAM2) available from ISO" > 2) what are the features supported by the streaming video > profile. To be > precise are the following features present in it : > a) B VOP > b) shape infomation > c) what kind of scalability > The relevent document would be more helpful. There is no single profile called Streaming Video Profile. There are, though: * Advanced Simple profile, with B VOP, no shape (only rectangular objects) and no scalability * Fine Granularity Scalable Profile without shape and with fine granularity scalability The relevant document is the standard referenced above Best, Rob From Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de Thu Nov 8 10:35:54 2001 From: Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de (Klaus Diepold) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:12 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header Message-ID: Friends and Comrades, after having recently spent some time discussing about the relation between H.263 and MPEG-4 Visual I am all confused myself by now. There is the "short header" feature in MPEG-4 visual that appears in several profiles. I can remember that this was based on some late attempts lead by Gary to achieve some level of interoperability between MPEG-4 and H.263. Does this mean that an H.263 decoder can decode MPEG-4 "short header" streams or is it the other way around or no way around after all ? Can anybody shed a little more light on the rationale behind the "short header" ? Best Regards, Klaus This message was entirely written with recycled electrons. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Klaus Diepold + + Dynapel Laboratories GmbH + + Fraunhoferstr.9, D-85737 Ismaning, Germany + + T:+49 (0)89 9624 2814, F:+49 (0)89 9624 2890 + + Email: klaus.diepold@dynapel.de, Web: www.dynapel.de + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From NOIMARK il.ibm.com Thu Nov 8 11:29:45 2001 From: NOIMARK il.ibm.com (Yuval Noimark) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:13 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Creating temporal scalability using the reference encoder Message-ID: Dear members, Has anyone succeeded in using the reference encoder for creating bitstreams with temporal scalability (base+enhancement)? We are using the sample scalability.par file but it seems to fail... Thanks, Yuval. -------------------------------- Yuval Noimark Audio & Video Technologies Group IBM Research Lab in Haifa Tel: +972-4-8296514, +972-9-9527648 E-Mail: noimark@il.ibm.com http://www.research.ibm.com/people/n/noimark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011108/bf49b2c1/attachment.html From garysull microsoft.com Thu Nov 8 10:34:22 2001 From: garysull microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:13 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header Message-ID: <0170DDAD0BADFA4CBEC3B55A0748DCCC040EF44F@red-msg-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Klaus et al, MPEG-4 video "short header" bitstreams are technically identical to H.263 "baseline" bitstreams. All H.263 decoders are capable of decoding H.263 baseline bitstreams, and are therefore also capable of decoding MPEG-4 video short header bitstreams (at least those within their supported range of bit rate, resolution, and frame rate). All MPEG-4 video profiles that include MPEG-4 video short header format support (which includes nearly all MPEG-4 video profiles) are also capable of decoding H.263 baseline bitstreams (within their supported range of bit rate, resolution, and frame rate). Best Regards, Gary Sullivan I've been "encouraged" to share this helpful information from our lawyers. This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. You assume all risk for your use. (c) 2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. +> -----Original Message----- +> From: Klaus Diepold [mailto:Klaus.Diepold@dynapel.de] +> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2023 1:36 AM +> To: technotes@lists.m4if.org +> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header +> +> +> Friends and Comrades, +> +> after having recently spent some time discussing about the +> relation between +> H.263 and MPEG-4 Visual I am all confused myself by now. +> There is the "short +> header" feature in MPEG-4 visual that appears in several +> profiles. I can +> remember that this was based on some late attempts lead by +> Gary to achieve +> some level of interoperability between MPEG-4 and H.263. +> Does this mean that +> an H.263 decoder can decode MPEG-4 "short header" streams or +> is it the other +> way around or no way around after all ? Can anybody shed a +> little more light +> on the rationale behind the "short header" ? +> +> Best Regards, +> Klaus +> +> This message was entirely written with recycled electrons. +> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +> + Klaus Diepold + +> + Dynapel Laboratories GmbH + +> + Fraunhoferstr.9, D-85737 Ismaning, Germany + +> + T:+49 (0)89 9624 2814, F:+49 (0)89 9624 2890 + +> + Email: klaus.diepold@dynapel.de, Web: www.dynapel.de + +> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +> +> _______________________________________________ +> Technotes mailing list +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes +> From garysull microsoft.com Thu Nov 8 11:53:51 2001 From: garysull microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:13 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Deblocking filter Message-ID: <0170DDAD0BADFA4CBEC3B55A0748DCCC040EF451@red-msg-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Thu Nov 8 16:50:55 2001 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:13 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] BIFS profiles for Set-top box Message-ID: Dear Angus, all, > I want to get general feedbacks on BIFS profiles from people > in set-top box > industry. Is there a general consensus on what graphics and > scene profiles > (e.g., Core2D) should be used? Are there any activities or > plan in DVB-MHP, > ATSC, OpenCABLE, etc? There has been some discussions in France within the context of the digital TV and so far what I got is the following : 1- A good BIFS profile would the one that maximises the functionnality with the constraints of fitting in existing STB. This is in a scenario where there will be an intermediate step between the deployed DTV and a full MHP solution. People are working in assessing what this profile can be. 2- Another good BIFS profile would be the one that provide rich interactive content in a declarative form to complement the application execution environment provided by MHP. Here, Advanced 2D could be a good candidate. Kind regards, Olivier From ben interframemedia.com Thu Nov 8 12:24:36 2001 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:13 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Flexibility in resolution in Video levels Message-ID: Folks, I may be horribly confused about this, so bear with me. Working with a bunch of white papers instead of product can get rather confusing! When a video level defines a resolution, like Simple@Level 1 with QCIF, how much flexibilty is there in distribution of the pixels? 176x144 has 99 16x16 blocks. I gather you can redistribute those blocks to provide a different aspect ratio, within some limits. So, would a 256x96 would be allowable if one wanted to stream Ben-Hur? Is there any upper limit to this? Presumably 1584x16 wouldn't be a viable format for mobile devices. Also, was there any particular reason why non 4:3 resolutions were chosen? 192x144 would be a lot more useful for normal content. Is the assumption that the 176x144 would be aspect ratio corrected to 4:3 on playback? Ben Waggoner Interframe Media Digital Video Compression Consulting, Training, and Encoding From rkoenen intertrust.com Thu Nov 8 12:29:34 2001 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:13 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Flexibility in resolution in Video levels Message-ID: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04BD9B92@exchange.epr.com> > When a video level defines a resolution, like > Simple@Level 1 with QCIF, > how much flexibilty is there in distribution of the pixels? > 176x144 has 99 > 16x16 blocks. I gather you can redistribute those blocks to provide a > different aspect ratio, within some limits. So, would a > 256x96 would be > allowable if one wanted to stream Ben-Hur? yes > Is there any > upper limit to > this? Presumably 1584x16 wouldn't be a viable format for > mobile devices. No, there is no upper (extreme) limit. Mobile devices would be able to decode, but not display all. But then, MPEG doesn't go as far as the display in setting its standards. > Also, was there any particular reason why non 4:3 resolutions were > chosen? 192x144 would be a lot more useful for normal > content. Is the > assumption that the 176x144 would be aspect ratio corrected to 4:3 on > playback? These reference resolutions are standard resolutions in image communication (CIF, QCIF, ITU- R 601) basically all derived from TV resolutions with some compromises between the standards in the different parts of the world. Rob From ben interframemedia.com Thu Nov 8 13:07:51 2001 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:13 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Current level documentation In-Reply-To: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04BD9B92@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: Folks, Is there any good place where the various levels of the different profiles are described. I have prose descriptions, like "levels 1 through 4 use 128 to 768 Kbps," but I'd love to see an actual set of tables. Ben Waggoner Interframe Media Digital Video Compression Consulting, Training, and Encoding From Peter.Haighton m4if.org Thu Nov 8 16:54:33 2001 From: Peter.Haighton m4if.org (Peter Haighton) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:13 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Flexibility in resolution in Video levels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Ben, With the exception of Simple Pofile Level 0 there is quite a bit of flexibility in the way an image can look. So your examples of 256 x 96 and 1584 x 16 are both valid, though you might get some complaints if you tried to show Ben-Hur on the later. :-) As for 4:3, you certainly can make an image in 4:3 ratio with some of the larger levels such as level 2 which would support 192x144 or even 320x240. You can also find ratios (a bit harder) such as 128x96. Peter -- Peter Haighton VideoSpheres Inc. 84 Hines Road Kanata, Ontario Canada, K2K 3G3 Tel: (613) 270-9646 x3022 Fax: (613) 271-9442 email: peterh@VideoSpheres.com See http://www.m4if.org for the latest on MPEG-4 -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Ben Waggoner Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2023 3:25 PM To: MPEG4 technical notes (E-mail) Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Flexibility in resolution in Video levels Folks, I may be horribly confused about this, so bear with me. Working with a bunch of white papers instead of product can get rather confusing! When a video level defines a resolution, like Simple@Level 1 with QCIF, how much flexibilty is there in distribution of the pixels? 176x144 has 99 16x16 blocks. I gather you can redistribute those blocks to provide a different aspect ratio, within some limits. So, would a 256x96 would be allowable if one wanted to stream Ben-Hur? Is there any upper limit to this? Presumably 1584x16 wouldn't be a viable format for mobile devices. Also, was there any particular reason why non 4:3 resolutions were chosen? 192x144 would be a lot more useful for normal content. Is the assumption that the 176x144 would be aspect ratio corrected to 4:3 on playback? Ben Waggoner Interframe Media Digital Video Compression Consulting, Training, and Encoding _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From ben interframemedia.com Thu Nov 8 14:11:13 2001 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:13 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Flexibility in resolution in Video levels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Peter, And with Simple Profile Level 0? Ben Waggoner Interframe Media Digital Video Compression Consulting, Training, and Encoding on 11/8/01 1:54 PM, Peter Haighton at Peter.Haighton@m4if.org wrote: > With the exception of Simple Pofile Level 0 there is quite a bit of > flexibility in the way an image can look. So your examples of 256 x 96 and > 1584 x 16 are both valid, though you might get some complaints if you > tried to show Ben-Hur on the later. :-) From neff PacketVideo.COM Thu Nov 8 16:21:57 2001 From: neff PacketVideo.COM (Ralph Neff) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:13 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Flexibility in resolution in Video levels Message-ID: <72660A24B978D411BB8A00B0D03DFE01023A8F94@misty.packetvideo.com> Ben, Simple Profile Level 0 has a hard limit to QCIF dimensions (i.e. width<=176, height<=144). The other profile/level combinations limit the total macroblocks, but don't restrict how they are arranged. -Ralph -----Original Message----- From: Ben Waggoner [mailto:ben@interframemedia.com] Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2023 2:11 PM To: MPEG4 technical notes (E-mail) Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Flexibility in resolution in Video levels Peter, And with Simple Profile Level 0? Ben Waggoner Interframe Media Digital Video Compression Consulting, Training, and Encoding on 11/8/01 1:54 PM, Peter Haighton at Peter.Haighton@m4if.org wrote: > With the exception of Simple Pofile Level 0 there is quite a bit of > flexibility in the way an image can look. So your examples of 256 x 96 and > 1584 x 16 are both valid, though you might get some complaints if you > tried to show Ben-Hur on the later. :-) _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From ben interframemedia.com Thu Nov 8 16:48:46 2001 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:13 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] What's low complexity about AAC LC Message-ID: Folks, So, what is low complexity abut AAC LC? Only two channels? No PNS tool? Ben Waggoner Interframe Media Digital Video Compression Consulting, Training, and Encoding From peterh videospheres.com Thu Nov 8 20:02:03 2001 From: peterh videospheres.com (Peter Haighton) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:13 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Flexibility in resolution in Video levels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Level 0 was created with wireless devices in mind. So, amongst the other restrictions that Level 0 imposes, it says that the image size can be no larger than 176 x 144 in each direction. Of course any size inside that dimension is fine. Peter -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Ben Waggoner Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2023 5:11 PM To: MPEG4 technical notes (E-mail) Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Flexibility in resolution in Video levels Peter, And with Simple Profile Level 0? Ben Waggoner Interframe Media Digital Video Compression Consulting, Training, and Encoding on 11/8/01 1:54 PM, Peter Haighton at Peter.Haighton@m4if.org wrote: > With the exception of Simple Pofile Level 0 there is quite a bit of > flexibility in the way an image can look. So your examples of 256 x 96 and > 1584 x 16 are both valid, though you might get some complaints if you > tried to show Ben-Hur on the later. :-) _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From ramakrishna_kakarala agilent.com Thu Nov 8 17:23:18 2001 From: ramakrishna_kakarala agilent.com (ramakrishna_kakarala@agilent.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:13 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] archive of past notes Message-ID: Hi, Is there an archive somewhere of past postings to this mailing list? It would be a useful reference, if it exists. Ram ------------------------------------------- Ramakrishna Kakarala |Fax:(650) 485-8029 Agilent Technologies |Ph: (650) 485-5782 3500 Deer Creek Rd | MS 26U2 Palo Alto CA 94304 -- www.labs.agilent.com/personal/Ram_Kakarala/ From rkoenen intertrust.com Thu Nov 8 18:42:39 2001 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:13 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] archive of past notes Message-ID: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04B5F13E@exchange.epr.com> Yes there is. click on the link at the bottom of any technotes mail. then click on the first link you'll get. It's easy. Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: ramakrishna_kakarala@agilent.com > [mailto:ramakrishna_kakarala@agilent.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2023 5:23 PM > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] archive of past notes > > > Hi, > > Is there an archive somewhere of past postings > to this mailing list? It would be a useful > reference, if it exists. > > Ram > > ------------------------------------------- > Ramakrishna Kakarala |Fax:(650) 485-8029 > Agilent Technologies |Ph: (650) 485-5782 > 3500 Deer Creek Rd | > MS 26U2 > Palo Alto CA 94304 > -- > www.labs.agilent.com/personal/Ram_Kakarala/ > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From admin aac-tech.com Fri Nov 9 06:39:11 2001 From: admin aac-tech.com (Ivan Dimkovic) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:14 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] What's low complexity about AAC LC References: Message-ID: <038501c168e0$f9d407f0$0100a8c0@hal> Dear Ben, others, > Folks, > > So, what is low complexity abut AAC LC? Only two channels? No PNS > tool? AAC Low Complexity profile differs from higher complexity profiles in: 1. No Prediction is used (prediction in main profile consumes many CPU cycles) 2. tns_max_order is lower (lower order of TNS filtering, less CPU cycles required) The biggest difference between LC and, for example, Main and LTP profiles is the lack of prediction. This leads to reduced complexity of the decoder (and partially of the encoder). Despite the fact that prediction is not used, LC profile performs quite similar to Main profile in quality terms. Quality difference between these two profiles is very small (much smaller than the diffrerence in the decoding complexity) I hope this helps, ************************************************* Ivan Dimkovic, Technical Manager PsyTEL Research Multimedia Coding Solutions Belgrade Yugoslavia phone: +381 64 11 40 600 fax: +381 11 32 25 275 email: dim@psytel-research.co.yu www: http://www.psytel-research.co.yu ************************************************* This e-mail may contain confidential information which is legally privileged. The information is solely for the use of the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or other use of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us by return e-mail and delete this message. Thank you. ____________________________ BN3 Hosted Customer Service Solution, basic service FREE. CRM enable your web site in 5 minutes! http://www.bn3.com From ben interframemedia.com Thu Nov 8 21:59:23 2001 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:14 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] What's low complexity about AAC LC In-Reply-To: <038501c168e0$f9d407f0$0100a8c0@hal> Message-ID: Ivan, Spot on, thanks. Given that the quality difference is so slight, why prediction anyway? Ben Waggoner Interframe Media Digital Video Compression Consulting, Training, and Encoding on 11/8/01 9:39 PM, Ivan Dimkovic at admin@aac-tech.com wrote: > AAC Low Complexity profile differs from higher complexity profiles in: > > 1. No Prediction is used (prediction in main profile consumes many CPU > cycles) > 2. tns_max_order is lower (lower order of TNS filtering, less CPU cycles > required) > > The biggest difference between LC and, for example, Main and LTP profiles is > the lack of prediction. This leads to reduced complexity of the decoder (and > partially of the encoder). Despite the fact that prediction is not used, LC > profile performs quite similar to Main profile in quality terms. Quality > difference between these two profiles is very small (much smaller than the > diffrerence in the decoding complexity) > > I hope this helps, From admin aac-tech.com Fri Nov 9 07:28:54 2001 From: admin aac-tech.com (Ivan Dimkovic) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:14 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] What's low complexity about AAC LC References: Message-ID: <050201c168e7$cfca99e0$0100a8c0@hal> Ben, > Ivan, > > Spot on, thanks. > > Given that the quality difference is so slight, why prediction anyway? > Prediction has some advantages on certain types of signals - Signals that have strong tonal character are easy to predict, but this is not the case with many natural signals. However, if the maximum possible quality is required then the prediction is useful. There are some other problems with prediction as well, backward adaptive prediction (used in Main profile) has very long sequences of frames and each frame needs all frames after the last prediction reset. That could be very tricky in wireless/internet real-time communication (signal could become distorted if some of the frames with prediction data is missing), and it also makes seeking very tricky. This is one reason more not to use prediction for many applications. Portable devices also use LC profile because their decoding circuits need to be as cheap as possible. Regards, ************************************************* Ivan Dimkovic, Technical Manager PsyTEL Research Multimedia Coding Solutions Belgrade Yugoslavia phone: +381 64 11 40 600 fax: +381 11 32 25 275 email: dim@psytel-research.co.yu www: http://www.psytel-research.co.yu ************************************************* This e-mail may contain confidential information which is legally privileged. The information is solely for the use of the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or other use of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us by return e-mail and delete this message. Thank you. ____________________________ BN3 Hosted Customer Service Solution, basic service FREE. CRM enable your web site in 5 minutes! http://www.bn3.com From yh86us yahoo.com Fri Nov 9 17:41:15 2001 From: yh86us yahoo.com (YH) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:14 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header References: <0170DDAD0BADFA4CBEC3B55A0748DCCC040EF44F@red-msg-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <3BEB7A8B.A020FF2C@yahoo.com> Hi Gary, Does that mean that a MPEG4 decoder will be able to decode H.263 video if the short header is handled? Thank you. Best regards, Yude Gary Sullivan wrote: > > Klaus et al, > > MPEG-4 video "short header" bitstreams are technically identical to > H.263 "baseline" bitstreams. > > All H.263 decoders are capable of decoding H.263 baseline bitstreams, > and are therefore also capable of decoding MPEG-4 video short header > bitstreams (at least those within their supported range of bit > rate, resolution, and frame rate). > > All MPEG-4 video profiles that include MPEG-4 video short header > format support (which includes nearly all MPEG-4 video profiles) > are also capable of decoding H.263 baseline bitstreams (within their > supported range of bit rate, resolution, and frame rate). > > Best Regards, > > Gary Sullivan > > I've been "encouraged" to share this helpful information from our > lawyers. This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and > confers no rights. You assume all risk for your use. (c) 2001 Microsoft > Corporation. All rights reserved. > > > +> -----Original Message----- > +> From: Klaus Diepold [mailto:Klaus.Diepold@dynapel.de] > +> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2023 1:36 AM > +> To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > +> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header > +> > +> > +> Friends and Comrades, > +> > +> after having recently spent some time discussing about the > +> relation between > +> H.263 and MPEG-4 Visual I am all confused myself by now. > +> There is the "short > +> header" feature in MPEG-4 visual that appears in several > +> profiles. I can > +> remember that this was based on some late attempts lead by > +> Gary to achieve > +> some level of interoperability between MPEG-4 and H.263. > +> Does this mean that > +> an H.263 decoder can decode MPEG-4 "short header" streams or > +> is it the other > +> way around or no way around after all ? Can anybody shed a > +> little more light > +> on the rationale behind the "short header" ? > +> > +> Best Regards, > +> Klaus > +> > +> This message was entirely written with recycled electrons. > +> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > +> + Klaus Diepold + > +> + Dynapel Laboratories GmbH + > +> + Fraunhoferstr.9, D-85737 Ismaning, Germany + > +> + T:+49 (0)89 9624 2814, F:+49 (0)89 9624 2890 + > +> + Email: klaus.diepold@dynapel.de, Web: www.dynapel.de + > +> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > +> > +> _______________________________________________ > +> Technotes mailing list > +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org > +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > +> > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From garysull microsoft.com Thu Nov 8 23:09:03 2001 From: garysull microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:14 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header Message-ID: <0170DDAD0BADFA4CBEC3B55A0748DCCC05B664BE@red-msg-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> YH, +> Does that mean that a MPEG4 decoder will be able to decode +> H.263 video if the short header is handled? I said H.263 *baseline* video, not all H.263 video. Baseline is the oldest form of H.263 with all optional enhanced features turned off. And the phrase "if the short header is handled" bothers me a bit. The short header *must* be handled in nearly all profiles of MPEG-4 video (including Simple). With those caveats, the answer is Yes. -Gary I've been "encouraged" to share this helpful information from our lawyers. This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. You assume all risk for your use. (c) 2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. +> -----Original Message----- +> From: YH [mailto:yh86us@yahoo.com] +> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2023 10:41 PM +> To: Gary Sullivan +> Cc: Klaus Diepold; technotes@lists.m4if.org +> Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header +> +> +> Hi Gary, +> +> Does that mean that a MPEG4 decoder will be able to decode +> H.263 video if the +> short header is handled? +> +> Thank you. +> +> Best regards, +> +> Yude +> +> Gary Sullivan wrote: +> > +> > Klaus et al, +> > +> > MPEG-4 video "short header" bitstreams are technically identical to +> > H.263 "baseline" bitstreams. +> > +> > All H.263 decoders are capable of decoding H.263 baseline +> bitstreams, +> > and are therefore also capable of decoding MPEG-4 video +> short header +> > bitstreams (at least those within their supported range of bit +> > rate, resolution, and frame rate). +> > +> > All MPEG-4 video profiles that include MPEG-4 video short header +> > format support (which includes nearly all MPEG-4 video profiles) +> > are also capable of decoding H.263 baseline bitstreams +> (within their +> > supported range of bit rate, resolution, and frame rate). +> > +> > Best Regards, +> > +> > Gary Sullivan +> > +> > I've been "encouraged" to share this helpful information from our +> > lawyers. This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and +> > confers no rights. You assume all risk for your use. (c) +> 2001 Microsoft +> > Corporation. All rights reserved. +> > +> > +> > +> -----Original Message----- +> > +> From: Klaus Diepold [mailto:Klaus.Diepold@dynapel.de] +> > +> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2023 1:36 AM +> > +> To: technotes@lists.m4if.org +> > +> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header +> > +> +> > +> +> > +> Friends and Comrades, +> > +> +> > +> after having recently spent some time discussing about the +> > +> relation between +> > +> H.263 and MPEG-4 Visual I am all confused myself by now. +> > +> There is the "short +> > +> header" feature in MPEG-4 visual that appears in several +> > +> profiles. I can +> > +> remember that this was based on some late attempts lead by +> > +> Gary to achieve +> > +> some level of interoperability between MPEG-4 and H.263. +> > +> Does this mean that +> > +> an H.263 decoder can decode MPEG-4 "short header" streams or +> > +> is it the other +> > +> way around or no way around after all ? Can anybody shed a +> > +> little more light +> > +> on the rationale behind the "short header" ? +> > +> +> > +> Best Regards, +> > +> Klaus +> > +> +> > +> This message was entirely written with recycled electrons. +> > +> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +> > +> + Klaus Diepold + +> > +> + Dynapel Laboratories GmbH + +> > +> + Fraunhoferstr.9, D-85737 Ismaning, Germany + +> > +> + T:+49 (0)89 9624 2814, F:+49 (0)89 9624 2890 + +> > +> + Email: klaus.diepold@dynapel.de, Web: www.dynapel.de + +> > +> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +> > +> +> > +> _______________________________________________ +> > +> Technotes mailing list +> > +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> > +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes +> > +> +> > _______________________________________________ +> > Technotes mailing list +> > Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes +> From gautam noida.hcltech.com Fri Nov 9 12:51:06 2001 From: gautam noida.hcltech.com (Gautam Kumar) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:14 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Few Queries on streaming video profile!!! Message-ID: Hi Members, first of all, i thank Mr. Rob for his reply. I have the previous mail by Mr. Peter Haighton dated Friday, August 17, 2023 7:08 AM. which helped me a lot. But still i want to clarify : 1) level 0 specification is in amd 3 or amd 4, as i can infer from http://mpeg.telecomitalialab.com/workplan.htm that amd 4 is not in the list. 2) does level 0 puts restriction on the size of frame to be multiple of 16 ? (ofcourse size should not be more that QCIF) 3) Regarding motion estimation and compensation, does it support: a) mb_type = 2 ; that is does it support different motion vectors for all 4 luminance blocks within the same macroblock, b) half pel motion compensation and c) unrestricted motion compensation. the original mail from Mr. Peter Haighton is as follows for the reference: > > Level 0 came out as part of amendment 4. I do not know if ISO has > published it yet though, I don't think so. MPEG-4 Simple > Profile Level 0 > has the following restrictions: > > a) The maximum frame rate shall be 15 frames per second; > b) The maximum f_code shall be 1; > c) The intra_dc_vlc_threshold shall be 0; > d) The maximum horizontal luminance pixel resolution shall be 176 pels/line; > e) The maximum vertical luminance pixel resolution shall be 144 pels/VOP; > f) If AC prediction is used, the following restriction applies : QP value > shall not be changed within a VOP (or within a video packet if video > packets are used in a VOP). If AC prediction is not used, there are no > restrictions to changing QP value.Other than Level 0, Simple Profile does not specify maximum > frame size. It does specify buffer sizes which would for example not let you do CIF in Level 1. thanks and regards Gautam Kumar -----Original Message----- From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2023 5:47 AM To: Gautam Kumar; technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Few Queries on streaming video profile!!! > 1 ) The test streams of streaming video profile. Can be obtained from ISO. See Hot News Section on www.m4if.org "Streaming Video Profiles Final Draft Amendment (14496-2:2001 FDAM2) available from ISO" > 2) what are the features supported by the streaming video > profile. To be > precise are the following features present in it : > a) B VOP > b) shape infomation > c) what kind of scalability > The relevent document would be more helpful. There is no single profile called Streaming Video Profile. There are, though: * Advanced Simple profile, with B VOP, no shape (only rectangular objects) and no scalability * Fine Granularity Scalable Profile without shape and with fine granularity scalability The relevant document is the standard referenced above Best, Rob From Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de Fri Nov 9 09:37:22 2001 From: Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de (Klaus Diepold) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:14 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header In-Reply-To: <0170DDAD0BADFA4CBEC3B55A0748DCCC040EF44F@red-msg-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: Gary, thanks for taking out the time for delivering tutorials ;-). In fact that is very helpful information. Do you know if this type of interoperability is actually tested ? Cheers Klaus +-----Original Message----- +From: Gary Sullivan [mailto:garysull@microsoft.com] +Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2023 7:34 PM +To: Klaus Diepold; technotes@lists.m4if.org +Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header + + + +Klaus et al, + +MPEG-4 video "short header" bitstreams are technically identical to +H.263 "baseline" bitstreams. + +All H.263 decoders are capable of decoding H.263 baseline bitstreams, +and are therefore also capable of decoding MPEG-4 video short header +bitstreams (at least those within their supported range of bit +rate, resolution, and frame rate). + +All MPEG-4 video profiles that include MPEG-4 video short header +format support (which includes nearly all MPEG-4 video profiles) +are also capable of decoding H.263 baseline bitstreams (within their +supported range of bit rate, resolution, and frame rate). + +Best Regards, + +Gary Sullivan + + +I've been "encouraged" to share this helpful information from our +lawyers. This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and +confers no rights. You assume all risk for your use. (c) 2001 Microsoft +Corporation. All rights reserved. + + ++> -----Original Message----- ++> From: Klaus Diepold [mailto:Klaus.Diepold@dynapel.de] ++> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2023 1:36 AM ++> To: technotes@lists.m4if.org ++> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header ++> ++> ++> Friends and Comrades, ++> ++> after having recently spent some time discussing about the ++> relation between ++> H.263 and MPEG-4 Visual I am all confused myself by now. ++> There is the "short ++> header" feature in MPEG-4 visual that appears in several ++> profiles. I can ++> remember that this was based on some late attempts lead by ++> Gary to achieve ++> some level of interoperability between MPEG-4 and H.263. ++> Does this mean that ++> an H.263 decoder can decode MPEG-4 "short header" streams or ++> is it the other ++> way around or no way around after all ? Can anybody shed a ++> little more light ++> on the rationale behind the "short header" ? ++> ++> Best Regards, ++> Klaus ++> ++> This message was entirely written with recycled electrons. ++> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++> + Klaus Diepold + ++> + Dynapel Laboratories GmbH + ++> + Fraunhoferstr.9, D-85737 Ismaning, Germany + ++> + T:+49 (0)89 9624 2814, F:+49 (0)89 9624 2890 + ++> + Email: klaus.diepold@dynapel.de, Web: www.dynapel.de + ++> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++> ++> _______________________________________________ ++> Technotes mailing list ++> Technotes@lists.m4if.org ++> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes ++> + + From laurent.herrmann philips.com Fri Nov 9 09:55:21 2001 From: laurent.herrmann philips.com (laurent.herrmann@philips.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:14 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] BIFS profiles for Set-top box Message-ID: Dear Angus, Dear Olivier, All, My comments inline ... > > I want to get general feedbacks on BIFS profiles from people > > in set-top box > > industry. Is there a general consensus on what graphics and > > scene profiles > > (e.g., Core2D) should be used? We at Philips, have been working on applications requirement (among them set-top boxes was of our interest) to describe the newly accepted profiles in MPEG-4. For us the most appropriate profiles are the Core2D Scene graph and Graphics profiles. > Are there any activities or > > plan in DVB-MHP, > > ATSC, OpenCABLE, etc? > There has been some discussions in France within the context of the digital > TV and so far what I got is the following : > > 1- A good BIFS profile would the one that maximises the functionnality with > the constraints of fitting in existing STB. This is in a scenario where > there will be an intermediate step between the deployed DTV and a full MHP > solution. People are working in assessing what this profile can be. On this point I agree to waht is said by Olivier. > > 2- Another good BIFS profile would be the one that provide rich interactive > content in a declarative form to complement the application execution > environment provided by MHP. Here, Advanced 2D could be a good candidate. Again, we at Philips support and implemement the Core 2D profiles for STB related applications (and others). For more advanced features the usage of the Advanced 2D profiles can be considered. For more details have a look to the following MPEG document from Sydney meeting : w4268 (sections 18 & 19) Best regards, Laurent. -- Laurent Herrmann Philips Digital Networks - MP4Net 51 rue Carnot - B.P. 301 - 92156 Suresnes - France E-mail : laurent.herrmann@philips.com Phone : +33 (0)1 47 28 37 31 -- MPEG-4 by Philips at www.mpeg-4player.com -- From pkudumakis crl.co.uk Fri Nov 9 10:35:07 2001 From: pkudumakis crl.co.uk (Panos Kudumakis) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:14 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] What's low complexity about AAC LC Message-ID: <4271192041@crl.co.uk> Prediction for sure impact on quality but talking about MPEG quality is nosense Thats because MPEG defines the bitstream and how to decode it in order to be compliant The encoders (which make the difference in the quality) in the reference software are non-optimised Even the decoders can further optimised at least in terms of complexity The companies in MPEG contributed to code they do not give away their competitive advantage that is their optimised codecs and that open up competition in the market For more info check out "MPEG-4, why use it ?" publicly available in MPEG site Panos ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] What's low complexity about AAC LC Author: "Ivan Dimkovic" Date: 09/11/01 06:28 Ben, > Ivan, > > Spot on, thanks. > > Given that the quality difference is so slight, why prediction anyway? > Prediction has some advantages on certain types of signals - Signals that have strong tonal character are easy to predict, but this is not the case with many natural signals. However, if the maximum possible quality is required then the prediction is useful. There are some other problems with prediction as well, backward adaptive prediction (used in Main profile) has very long sequences of frames and each frame needs all frames after the last prediction reset. That could be very tricky in wireless/internet real-time communication (signal could become distorted if some of the frames with prediction data is missing), and it also makes seeking very tricky. This is one reason more not to use prediction for many applications. Portable devices also use LC profile because their decoding circuits need to be as cheap as possible. Regards, ************************************************* Ivan Dimkovic, Technical Manager PsyTEL Research Multimedia Coding Solutions Belgrade Yugoslavia phone: +381 64 11 40 600 fax: +381 11 32 25 275 email: dim@psytel-research.co.yu www: http://www.psytel-research.co.yu ************************************************* This e-mail may contain confidential information which is legally privileged. The information is solely for the use of the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or other use of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us by return e-mail and delete this message. Thank you. ____________________________ BN3 Hosted Customer Service Solution, basic service FREE. CRM enable your web site in 5 minutes! http://www.bn3.com _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes ********************************************************************** This communication contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). Please note that any distribution, copying or use of this communication, or the information in it, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by email or by telephone (+44 20 8848 9779) and then delete the email and any copies of it. This communication is from Central Research Laboratories Ltd., whose principal office is at Dawley Road, Hayes, Middlesex, England. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been checked for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** From admin aac-tech.com Fri Nov 9 12:04:11 2001 From: admin aac-tech.com (Ivan Dimkovic) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:14 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] What's low complexity about AAC LC References: <4271192041@crl.co.uk> Message-ID: <0b6301c1690e$4a082170$0100a8c0@hal> Dear Panos, > Prediction for sure impact on quality but talking about MPEG quality is nosense > Thats because MPEG defines the bitstream and how to decode it in order to be > compliant The encoders (which make the difference in the quality) in the > reference software are non-optimised Even the decoders can further optimised at > least in terms of complexity The companies in MPEG contributed to code they do > not give away their competitive advantage that is their optimised codecs and > that open up competition in the market > When I talked about small quality difference between AAC Main and AAC LC I was talking about encoders optimized for quality, used in MPEG listening tests, and not reference software encoder (ISO refsoft). > For more info check out "MPEG-4, why use it ?" publicly available in MPEG site > For futher information please check document N2006 "Report on MPEG-2 AAC Stereo Verification Tests", where AAC Main 128 scored slightly less than -0.2 (difference from original) while AAC LC 128 scored slightly more than -0.2 - both of them are in the range of 'excellent' quality. Encoders used in these tests were optimized for maximum possible quality. In the most AES documents the overall conclusion is that AAC Main does not offer much better quality for a performance loss. Also, "Considering the results of the MPEG-2 AAC Stereo Verification Test, it is clear that there is only a marginal difference in performance between AAC Main and AAC LC Profile at the tested bitrates. On the other hand there is a significant increase of complexity (both required RAM and instructions) for the Main profile compared to the LC profile" (quoted from "Implementing ISO/MPEG-2 Advanced Audio Coding in Realtime on a Fixed Point DSP", Johannes Hilpert,Michael Braun,Manfred Lutzky,Stefan Geyersberger,and Rainer Buchta Fraunhofer Institute for Integrated Circuits, AES article 4822) Regards, ************************************************* Ivan Dimkovic, Technical Manager PsyTEL Research Multimedia Coding Solutions Belgrade Yugoslavia phone: +381 64 11 40 600 fax: +381 11 32 25 275 email: dim@psytel-research.co.yu www: http://www.psytel-research.co.yu ************************************************* ____________________________ BN3 Hosted Customer Service Solution, basic service FREE. CRM enable your web site in 5 minutes! http://www.bn3.com From pkudumakis crl.co.uk Fri Nov 9 11:19:45 2001 From: pkudumakis crl.co.uk (Panos Kudumakis) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:14 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] What's low complexity about A Message-ID: <3378051672@crl.co.uk> Ivan Thanks for the clarification Panos ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: [M4IF Technotes] What's low complexity about AAC Author: "Ivan Dimkovic" Date: 09/11/01 11:04 Dear Panos, > Prediction for sure impact on quality but talking about MPEG quality is nosense > Thats because MPEG defines the bitstream and how to decode it in order to be > compliant The encoders (which make the difference in the quality) in the > reference software are non-optimised Even the decoders can further optimised at > least in terms of complexity The companies in MPEG contributed to code they do > not give away their competitive advantage that is their optimised codecs and > that open up competition in the market > When I talked about small quality difference between AAC Main and AAC LC I was talking about encoders optimized for quality, used in MPEG listening tests, and not reference software encoder (ISO refsoft). > For more info check out "MPEG-4, why use it ?" publicly available in MPEG site > For futher information please check document N2006 "Report on MPEG-2 AAC Stereo Verification Tests", where AAC Main 128 scored slightly less than -0.2 (difference from original) while AAC LC 128 scored slightly more than -0.2 - both of them are in the range of 'excellent' quality. Encoders used in these tests were optimized for maximum possible quality. In the most AES documents the overall conclusion is that AAC Main does not offer much better quality for a performance loss. Also, "Considering the results of the MPEG-2 AAC Stereo Verification Test, it is clear that there is only a marginal difference in performance between AAC Main and AAC LC Profile at the tested bitrates. On the other hand there is a significant increase of complexity (both required RAM and instructions) for the Main profile compared to the LC profile" (quoted from "Implementing ISO/MPEG-2 Advanced Audio Coding in Realtime on a Fixed Point DSP", Johannes Hilpert,Michael Braun,Manfred Lutzky,Stefan Geyersberger,and Rainer Buchta Fraunhofer Institute for Integrated Circuits, AES article 4822) Regards, ************************************************* Ivan Dimkovic, Technical Manager PsyTEL Research Multimedia Coding Solutions Belgrade Yugoslavia phone: +381 64 11 40 600 fax: +381 11 32 25 275 email: dim@psytel-research.co.yu www: http://www.psytel-research.co.yu ************************************************* ____________________________ BN3 Hosted Customer Service Solution, basic service FREE. CRM enable your web site in 5 minutes! http://www.bn3.com _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes ********************************************************************** This communication contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). Please note that any distribution, copying or use of this communication, or the information in it, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by email or by telephone (+44 20 8848 9779) and then delete the email and any copies of it. This communication is from Central Research Laboratories Ltd., whose principal office is at Dawley Road, Hayes, Middlesex, England. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been checked for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** From ahmed ftdpl.com.sg Fri Nov 9 16:56:04 2001 From: ahmed ftdpl.com.sg (Taukheer Ahmed) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:15 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Unsubscribing from this list Message-ID: <3BEC50F4.ABD725F3@ftdpl.com.sg> Hello Admin, Please unsubscribe me from this list. I am unable to handle the mails coming to me. Thanks & Regards Ahmed -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ahmed.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 407 bytes Desc: Card for Taukheer Ahmed Url : /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011109/88803827/ahmed.bin From rkoenen intertrust.com Fri Nov 9 07:16:43 2001 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:15 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Unsubscribing from this list Message-ID: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04BD9B9B@exchange.epr.com> Ahmed, All, You receive an email with unsubscription details on subscription and every first day of the month. in your case, it contains the link http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/options/technotes/ahmed%40ftdpl.com.sg The password you need is in that mail. Please keep it, and use it to unsubscribe from this list. Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Taukheer Ahmed [mailto:ahmed@ftdpl.com.sg] > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2023 1:56 PM > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Unsubscribing from this list > > > > Hello Admin, > > Please unsubscribe me from this list. I am unable to handle the mails > coming to me. > > Thanks & Regards > Ahmed > > From rkoenen intertrust.com Fri Nov 9 07:47:17 2001 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:15 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] What's low complexity about AAC LC Message-ID: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04BD9BA1@exchange.epr.com> Panos, all > Prediction for sure impact on quality but talking about MPEG > quality is nosense Ivan was 100% correct in his observations regarding quality. Indeed the ultimate quality is determined by the encoder, and indeed this is not specified, but the tool set determines how good the encoder can ultimately be. Rob From rkoenen intertrust.com Fri Nov 9 18:02:08 2001 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:16 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Few Queries on streaming video profile!!! Message-ID: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04BD9BE3@exchange.epr.com> Gautam, > 1) level 0 specification is in amd 3 or amd 4, as i can infer from > http://mpeg.telecomitalialab.com/workplan.htm > that amd 4 is not in the list. That is because amendments got renumbered as new versions are issued. Difficult to follow at times, but we need to live with it. The numbers in the workplan are now relative to the 2001 edition of MPEG-4 Visual. You are now looking at AMD2 (Simple@L0) and AMD3 (Simple Scalable @ L0) > 2) does level 0 puts restriction on the size of frame to be > multiple of 16 ? > (ofcourse size should not be more that QCIF) yes. Length <= 176 Height <= 144 It only works in multiples of full macroblocks. MPEG-4 Simple Profile Level 0 has the following restrictions when compared to Level 1: a) The maximum frame rate shall be 15 frames per second; b) The maximum f_code shall be 1; c) The intra_dc_vlc_threshold shall be 0; d) The maximum horizontal luminance pixel resolution shall be 176 pels/line; e) The maximum vertical luminance pixel resolution shall be 144 pels/VOP; f) If AC prediction is used, the following restriction applies : QP value shall not be changed within a VOP (or within a video packet if video packets are used in a VOP). If AC prediction is not used, there are no restrictions to changing QP value. > 3) Regarding motion estimation and compensation, does it support: > a) mb_type = 2 ; that is does it support different motion vectors > for all 4 luminance blocks within the same macroblock, Yes > b) half pel motion compensation and yes > c) unrestricted motion compensation. yes Best, Rob From garysull microsoft.com Mon Nov 12 23:44:12 2001 From: garysull microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:17 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header Message-ID: <0170DDAD0BADFA4CBEC3B55A0748DCCC05B664F9@red-msg-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> +> Do you know if this type +> of interoperability is actually tested ? By whom? :-) It *is* one of the things in the MPEG-4 conformance bitstream test suite. And I have heard several people say they have tested this themselves in various other ways. -Gary S. I've been "encouraged" to share this helpful information from our lawyers. This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. You assume all risk for your use. (c) 2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. +> -----Original Message----- +> From: Klaus Diepold [mailto:Klaus.Diepold@dynapel.de] +> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2023 12:37 AM +> To: Gary Sullivan; technotes@lists.m4if.org +> Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header +> +> +> Gary, +> +> thanks for taking out the time for delivering tutorials ;-). +> In fact that is very helpful information. Do you know if this type +> of interoperability is actually tested ? +> +> Cheers +> Klaus +> +> +-----Original Message----- +> +From: Gary Sullivan [mailto:garysull@microsoft.com] +> +Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2023 7:34 PM +> +To: Klaus Diepold; technotes@lists.m4if.org +> +Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header +> + +> + +> + +> +Klaus et al, +> + +> +MPEG-4 video "short header" bitstreams are technically identical to +> +H.263 "baseline" bitstreams. +> + +> +All H.263 decoders are capable of decoding H.263 baseline +> bitstreams, +> +and are therefore also capable of decoding MPEG-4 video short header +> +bitstreams (at least those within their supported range of bit +> +rate, resolution, and frame rate). +> + +> +All MPEG-4 video profiles that include MPEG-4 video short header +> +format support (which includes nearly all MPEG-4 video profiles) +> +are also capable of decoding H.263 baseline bitstreams (within their +> +supported range of bit rate, resolution, and frame rate). +> + +> +Best Regards, +> + +> +Gary Sullivan +> + +> + +> +I've been "encouraged" to share this helpful information from our +> +lawyers. This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and +> +confers no rights. You assume all risk for your use. (c) +> 2001 Microsoft +> +Corporation. All rights reserved. +> + +> + +> ++> -----Original Message----- +> ++> From: Klaus Diepold [mailto:Klaus.Diepold@dynapel.de] +> ++> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2023 1:36 AM +> ++> To: technotes@lists.m4if.org +> ++> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header +> ++> +> ++> +> ++> Friends and Comrades, +> ++> +> ++> after having recently spent some time discussing about the +> ++> relation between +> ++> H.263 and MPEG-4 Visual I am all confused myself by now. +> ++> There is the "short +> ++> header" feature in MPEG-4 visual that appears in several +> ++> profiles. I can +> ++> remember that this was based on some late attempts lead by +> ++> Gary to achieve +> ++> some level of interoperability between MPEG-4 and H.263. +> ++> Does this mean that +> ++> an H.263 decoder can decode MPEG-4 "short header" streams or +> ++> is it the other +> ++> way around or no way around after all ? Can anybody shed a +> ++> little more light +> ++> on the rationale behind the "short header" ? +> ++> +> ++> Best Regards, +> ++> Klaus +> ++> +> ++> This message was entirely written with recycled electrons. +> ++> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +> ++> + Klaus Diepold + +> ++> + Dynapel Laboratories GmbH + +> ++> + Fraunhoferstr.9, D-85737 Ismaning, Germany + +> ++> + T:+49 (0)89 9624 2814, F:+49 (0)89 9624 2890 + +> ++> + Email: klaus.diepold@dynapel.de, Web: www.dynapel.de + +> ++> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +> ++> +> ++> _______________________________________________ +> ++> Technotes mailing list +> ++> Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> ++> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes +> ++> +> + +> + +> _______________________________________________ +> Technotes mailing list +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes +> From Paola.Hobson motorola.com Tue Nov 13 09:17:29 2001 From: Paola.Hobson motorola.com (Hobson Paola-BPH001) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:18 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Use of Error Resilience Tools with MPEG4 Simple Scalable Profile Message-ID: <99695890041DD4118D2F00D0B748B0A604D55F8E@zuk02exm01.comm.mot.com> Dear M4IF Experts I would be grateful for your advice on a question about Table G on Page 421 of ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 29/WG 11 N2802 Vancouver, July 1999 (ISO/IEC 14496-2 FPDAM 1) in which it is shown that the use of Error Resilience Tools with Temporal Scalability and Spatial Scalability is not supported by the Syntax. Please could someone explain the reasons behind the decision to prohibit the use of these tools together, and if possible point me to an SC29WG11 input or output document in which an explanation for this decision appears. Also please could I ask for your advice on the importance of this decision. Motorola has found that use of MPEG4 Simple Scalable Profile in a mobile communication environment would benefit greatly from the ability to use error resilience tools in the enhancement layers, and I would be very interested to hear other opinions on this issue. Thank you very much. Paola Dr Paola Hobson Manager of Multimedia Applications Research Motorola UK Research Lab From Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de Tue Nov 13 12:03:28 2001 From: Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de (Klaus Diepold) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:18 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header In-Reply-To: <0170DDAD0BADFA4CBEC3B55A0748DCCC05B664F9@red-msg-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: Oops, maybe I should have posted this question to the interoperability group. klaus +-----Original Message----- +From: Gary Sullivan [mailto:garysull@microsoft.com] +Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2023 8:44 AM +To: Klaus Diepold; technotes@lists.m4if.org +Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header + + + ++> Do you know if this type ++> of interoperability is actually tested ? + +By whom? :-) + +It *is* one of the things in the MPEG-4 conformance +bitstream test suite. And I have heard several +people say they have tested this themselves +in various other ways. + +-Gary S. + +I've been "encouraged" to share this helpful information from our +lawyers. This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and +confers no rights. You assume all risk for your use. (c) 2001 Microsoft +Corporation. All rights reserved. + ++> -----Original Message----- ++> From: Klaus Diepold [mailto:Klaus.Diepold@dynapel.de] ++> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2023 12:37 AM ++> To: Gary Sullivan; technotes@lists.m4if.org ++> Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header ++> ++> ++> Gary, ++> ++> thanks for taking out the time for delivering tutorials ;-). ++> In fact that is very helpful information. Do you know if this type ++> of interoperability is actually tested ? ++> ++> Cheers ++> Klaus ++> ++> +-----Original Message----- ++> +From: Gary Sullivan [mailto:garysull@microsoft.com] ++> +Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2023 7:34 PM ++> +To: Klaus Diepold; technotes@lists.m4if.org ++> +Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header ++> + ++> + ++> + ++> +Klaus et al, ++> + ++> +MPEG-4 video "short header" bitstreams are technically identical to ++> +H.263 "baseline" bitstreams. ++> + ++> +All H.263 decoders are capable of decoding H.263 baseline ++> bitstreams, ++> +and are therefore also capable of decoding MPEG-4 video short header ++> +bitstreams (at least those within their supported range of bit ++> +rate, resolution, and frame rate). ++> + ++> +All MPEG-4 video profiles that include MPEG-4 video short header ++> +format support (which includes nearly all MPEG-4 video profiles) ++> +are also capable of decoding H.263 baseline bitstreams (within their ++> +supported range of bit rate, resolution, and frame rate). ++> + ++> +Best Regards, ++> + ++> +Gary Sullivan ++> + ++> + ++> +I've been "encouraged" to share this helpful information from our ++> +lawyers. This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and ++> +confers no rights. You assume all risk for your use. (c) ++> 2001 Microsoft ++> +Corporation. All rights reserved. ++> + ++> + ++> ++> -----Original Message----- ++> ++> From: Klaus Diepold [mailto:Klaus.Diepold@dynapel.de] ++> ++> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2023 1:36 AM ++> ++> To: technotes@lists.m4if.org ++> ++> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Short Header ++> ++> ++> ++> ++> ++> Friends and Comrades, ++> ++> ++> ++> after having recently spent some time discussing about the ++> ++> relation between ++> ++> H.263 and MPEG-4 Visual I am all confused myself by now. ++> ++> There is the "short ++> ++> header" feature in MPEG-4 visual that appears in several ++> ++> profiles. I can ++> ++> remember that this was based on some late attempts lead by ++> ++> Gary to achieve ++> ++> some level of interoperability between MPEG-4 and H.263. ++> ++> Does this mean that ++> ++> an H.263 decoder can decode MPEG-4 "short header" streams or ++> ++> is it the other ++> ++> way around or no way around after all ? Can anybody shed a ++> ++> little more light ++> ++> on the rationale behind the "short header" ? ++> ++> ++> ++> Best Regards, ++> ++> Klaus ++> ++> ++> ++> This message was entirely written with recycled electrons. ++> ++> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++> ++> + Klaus Diepold + ++> ++> + Dynapel Laboratories GmbH + ++> ++> + Fraunhoferstr.9, D-85737 Ismaning, Germany + ++> ++> + T:+49 (0)89 9624 2814, F:+49 (0)89 9624 2890 + ++> ++> + Email: klaus.diepold@dynapel.de, Web: www.dynapel.de + ++> ++> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++> ++> ++> ++> _______________________________________________ ++> ++> Technotes mailing list ++> ++> Technotes@lists.m4if.org ++> ++> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes ++> ++> ++> + ++> + ++> _______________________________________________ ++> Technotes mailing list ++> Technotes@lists.m4if.org ++> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes ++> + + From the_ether btinternet.com Tue Nov 13 15:58:36 2001 From: the_ether btinternet.com (the_ether) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:18 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Object questions Message-ID: <003901c16c5c$2ee16900$881f23d9@opsus> I have a few questions about arbitrarily shaped objects: 1- What's the maximum number of objects that can exist in a given frame and does this number vary with the profile? 2- Are there any pointers on how to decide which parts of an image should be treated as objects and which as part of the background? I suppose factors could be size of the object, speed of movement and level of contrast between it and its surroundings. 3- Can I arbitrarily change which objects I am using (ie whereas object 1 was a tree in frame 1, in frame 2 I decide that the tree no longer needs to be treated as an object and so I allocate object code 1 to a cow instead)? Or can I only make a change if the new object allocation occurs in an I-frame? 4- Can objects have holes in them, like a doughnut or are they assumed to be solid? 5- I noted that I can transmit object information with or without motion vectors and also with or without prediction errors. What if the shape and position hasn't changed. Do I transmit anything at all and assume that the decoder will re-draw what it had last time? Thanks in advance for any help. Regards graham From the_ether btinternet.com Tue Nov 13 17:57:51 2001 From: the_ether btinternet.com (the_ether) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:18 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Absolute or relative? Message-ID: <005701c16c6c$dcc12dc0$881f23d9@opsus> I'm confused about whether motion vectors use absolute or relative co-ordinates. Being a 'vector' it should be relative but in the ISO doc, para 7.6 (p203) it states, "Thus the motion vector for a particular feature inside a VOP, eg a macroblock, refers to the displacement of the feature in absolute co-ordinates." On this subject, I have the following questions 1- How are VOP co-ordinates indicated? Is it by the (x,y) co-ordinates of the top, left corner, relative to (0,0) of the screen? 2- Is (0,0) of the screen the top left corner? 3- Are the co-ordinates of a BAB within a VOP indicated by the (x,y) of top, left corner relative to (0,0) of the screen? 4- Are motion vectors for a current VOP (and its BABs) relative to the screen (0,0) or the previous version of the VOP. I.e., if a VOP that appears in the middle of the screen moves right one pixel, would the MV be (1,0)? Regards graham From rkoenen intertrust.com Tue Nov 13 10:28:47 2001 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:18 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Object questions Message-ID: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04BD9C8C@exchange.epr.com> > 1- What's the maximum number of objects that can exist in a > given frame and > does this number vary with the profile? Max objects is per scene, and varies with Profile _and_Level_. In Simple@Level 0 it is 1 single object; goes up to 32 for the highest levels. > 2- Are there any pointers on how to decide which parts of an > image should be > treated as objects and which as part of the background? I > suppose factors > could be size of the object, speed of movement and level of > contrast between > it and its surroundings. One thing should be clear: ALL ELEMENTS IN THE SCENE ARE OBJECTS. Also the sound, also rectangular video, also any graphics and text. Your question seems to relate to encoding however. One more thing to be clear YOU ARE NOT FORCED TO DO AN ANALYSIS when you want to encode a sequence. Just can just treat the whole scene as a singular rectanguler object. When you do do an analysis, it is completely up to you how you divide the srource material into objects. This is not normatively described in the standard. > > 3- Can I arbitrarily change which objects I am using (ie > whereas object 1 > was a tree in frame 1, in frame 2 I decide that the tree no > longer needs to > be treated as an object and so I allocate object code 1 to a > cow instead)? > Or can I only make a change if the new object allocation occurs in an > I-frame? You can arbitrarily change objects and update the scene using BIFS. If you decide to merge the duck into the background OBJECT, you need to update that object. If you want to do that using an I-VOP, fine. If you think you can do it with a P-VOP, that's your choice. Individual objects can have their own 'object rate'. > 4- Can objects have holes in them, like a doughnut or are > they assumed to be solid? Objects can have lots of holes. You can actually use an alpha mask to describe the object, so it can even have fuzzy edges. > 5- I noted that I can transmit object information with or > without motion > vectors and also with or without prediction errors. What if > the shape and > position hasn't changed. Do I transmit anything at all and > assume that the > decoder will re-draw what it had last time? This is no different than in 'normal' video coding. Rob From the_ether btinternet.com Tue Nov 13 19:37:10 2001 From: the_ether btinternet.com (the_ether) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:18 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Object questions References: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04BD9C8C@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: <007d01c16c7a$f7ee8b20$881f23d9@opsus> > One thing should be clear: ALL ELEMENTS IN THE SCENE ARE OBJECTS. > Also the sound, also rectangular video, also any graphics and > text. Just to be absolutely sure I have understood. Does the maximum of 32 objects in a scene include things like sound? This implies that a video encoded using simple profile, level 0 could not have any audio . Just out of interest, how is stereo sound treated? Is it one or two 'objects'? > When you do do an analysis, > it is completely up to you how you divide the srource material > into objects. This is not normatively described in the standard. I realise this but was wondering whether there were any practical pointers. Depending on the method used to identify distinct objects in a scene, I may end up with hundreds. I was wondering whether there were any pointers, based on experience / research that would make a decision process to prioritising which of those 100 objects should be coded as distinct objects and which should be aggregated into one. Re: BIFS. I thought that was best for synthetic images whereby the meshes are being transmitted. If I had a scene with a woman walking across a field whom I had isolated as a separate object, would I use BIFS or use motion compensation? (I'm assuming that I had not been able to construct any 3D model of the woman and all I have is the 2D representation of her). Re: updating of object definition. So all I need to do is simply define a new shape bitmap for the new object, I do not need to signal the decoder that "object 1" is now a different object? I can only imagine doing this with an I-VOP as a P-VOP would be relative to the previous frame. If the previous object was a duck and the new one a cow, then there's not a lot of similarity. A goose on the otherhand... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Koenen" To: "'the_ether'" ; Sent: 13 November 2023 18:28 Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Object questions > > 1- What's the maximum number of objects that can exist in a > > given frame and > > does this number vary with the profile? > > Max objects is per scene, and varies with Profile _and_Level_. > In Simple@Level 0 it is 1 single object; goes up to 32 for > the highest levels. > > > > 2- Are there any pointers on how to decide which parts of an > > image should be > > treated as objects and which as part of the background? I > > suppose factors > > could be size of the object, speed of movement and level of > > contrast between > > it and its surroundings. > > One thing should be clear: ALL ELEMENTS IN THE SCENE ARE OBJECTS. > Also the sound, also rectangular video, also any graphics and > text. Your question seems to relate to encoding however. > One more thing to be clear YOU ARE NOT FORCED TO DO AN ANALYSIS > when you want to encode a sequence. Just can just treat the whole > scene as a singular rectanguler object. When you do do an analysis, > it is completely up to you how you divide the srource material > into objects. This is not normatively described in the standard. > > > > > 3- Can I arbitrarily change which objects I am using (ie > > whereas object 1 > > was a tree in frame 1, in frame 2 I decide that the tree no > > longer needs to > > be treated as an object and so I allocate object code 1 to a > > cow instead)? > > Or can I only make a change if the new object allocation occurs in an > > I-frame? > > You can arbitrarily change objects and update the scene using BIFS. > If you decide to merge the duck into the background OBJECT, you > need to update that object. If you want to do that using an I-VOP, > fine. If you think you can do it with a P-VOP, that's your choice. > Individual objects can have their own 'object rate'. > > > 4- Can objects have holes in them, like a doughnut or are > > they assumed to be solid? > > Objects can have lots of holes. You can actually use an alpha mask > to describe the object, so it can even have fuzzy edges. > > > 5- I noted that I can transmit object information with or > > without motion > > vectors and also with or without prediction errors. What if > > the shape and > > position hasn't changed. Do I transmit anything at all and > > assume that the > > decoder will re-draw what it had last time? > > This is no different than in 'normal' video coding. > > Rob > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From rkoenen intertrust.com Tue Nov 13 12:48:01 2001 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:18 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Object questions Message-ID: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04BD9C9F@exchange.epr.com> > Just to be absolutely sure I have understood. Does the > maximum of 32 objects > in a scene include things like sound? This implies that a > video encoded > using simple profile, level 0 could not have any audio . Good question. Max. number of objects was in this case for the Visual Profile@Level Audio profiles@levels have their own maximum. Same applies to Graphics PRofiles, which delimited the elements such as graphics, text etc. In the case of Graphics profiles, there are other complecity measures than the number of objects. > Just out of interest, how is stereo sound treated? Is it one or two > 'objects'? You can have a 5.1 channel object. The Audio level definition may actually restict the number of channels. (Some audio levels are very advanced, and allow you to have, say, one very complex object or 32 very easy ones. You are free to allocate your resources in these level definitions.) > I realise this but was wondering whether there were any > practical pointers. There is a slew of literature on object segmentation. Just try something like "object segmentation mpeg-4" in Google. > Re: BIFS. I thought that was best for synthetic images > whereby the meshes > are being transmitted. No. BIFS is a scene description language used to (yes, you guessed it) describe the scene. You can even used it to describe the layout of 2 video objects (and it can get simpler still). BIFS also contains commands to animat the scene. BEfore going deeper into this discussion, I recommend that you read http://mpeg.telecomitalialab.com/standards/mpeg-4/mpeg-4.htm > I can only imagine doing this with an I-VOP as a P-VOP would > be relative to > the previous frame. If the previous object was a duck and the > new one a cow, > then there's not a lot of similarity. A goose on the otherhand... I was actually merging the duck in the background. Morphing a duck into a cow is an interesting other issue. Rob From yh86us yahoo.com Wed Nov 14 21:26:02 2001 From: yh86us yahoo.com (YH) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:18 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times References: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04BD9C77@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: <3BF246BA.E9BE3583@yahoo.com> > * iVAST And Sigma Designs Form Partnership to Offer a Set-Top > Box Based On MPEG-4 Interesting. Will the MPEG-4 be used in DTV and HDTV? I was heard that the MPEG-4 won't replace MPEG-2? Rob Koenen wrote: > > MPEG-4 watchers, > > This week's EE Times has a special issue on MPEG technology. > > Most of it focuses on MPEG-4, but there is also interesting material > on MPEG-7 and even a bit on MPEG-21, including how the standards > relate to each other. > > Visit http://www.m4if.org and look under "MPEG-4 in the News" > > Things are heating up around MPEG-4. Yesterday alone, the following > news items were released: > > * Vweb Introduces Industry's First MPEG Network CODEC Chip > * Sigma Designs Provides First Full Resolution MPEG-4 Decoder; > New EM8470 Chips ... > * NEC To Offer PacketVideo's Industry-Leading Wireless > Streaming Products to Japan ... > * Alchemy Semiconductor Demonstrates MPEG-4 Streaming With Media > Excel Software > * Pace Introduces IPTV Digital Home Gateway for Telecom and > Broadband IP Networks > * Hutchison Telecom Acquires Luxxon's Mediator Streaming System > to Deliver Rich Media ... > * iVAST And Sigma Designs Form Partnership to Offer a Set-Top > Box Based On MPEG-4 > * DivXNetworks and Broadway Television Network Launch > Video-on-Demand Service > > Announced today - will be listed on m4if home page shortly: > > * KDDI to offer GPS navigation service, deliver MPEG-4 video to cell > Phones in December > > For all of these, go to http://www.m4if.org and look under > "Press Releases" > > Also, in the Hot News Section of http://www.m4if.org under > "MPEG-4 and IPMP session of the 143rd SMPTE Technical > Conference and Exhibition [SMPTE, 6 Nov 01]" > we are collecting the slides from last week's tutorial session. > > Best, > Rob Koenen > > _______________________________________________ > News mailing list > News@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/news Rob Koenen wrote: > > MPEG-4 watchers, > > This week's EE Times has a special issue on MPEG technology. > > Most of it focuses on MPEG-4, but there is also interesting material > on MPEG-7 and even a bit on MPEG-21, including how the standards > relate to each other. > > Visit http://www.m4if.org and look under "MPEG-4 in the News" > > Things are heating up around MPEG-4. Yesterday alone, the following > news items were released: > > * Vweb Introduces Industry's First MPEG Network CODEC Chip > * Sigma Designs Provides First Full Resolution MPEG-4 Decoder; > New EM8470 Chips ... > * NEC To Offer PacketVideo's Industry-Leading Wireless > Streaming Products to Japan ... > * Alchemy Semiconductor Demonstrates MPEG-4 Streaming With Media > Excel Software > * Pace Introduces IPTV Digital Home Gateway for Telecom and > Broadband IP Networks > * Hutchison Telecom Acquires Luxxon's Mediator Streaming System > to Deliver Rich Media ... > * iVAST And Sigma Designs Form Partnership to Offer a Set-Top > Box Based On MPEG-4 > * DivXNetworks and Broadway Television Network Launch > Video-on-Demand Service > > Announced today - will be listed on m4if home page shortly: > > * KDDI to offer GPS navigation service, deliver MPEG-4 video to cell > Phones in December > > For all of these, go to http://www.m4if.org and look under > "Press Releases" > > Also, in the Hot News Section of http://www.m4if.org under > "MPEG-4 and IPMP session of the 143rd SMPTE Technical > Conference and Exhibition [SMPTE, 6 Nov 01]" > we are collecting the slides from last week's tutorial session. > > Best, > Rob Koenen > > _______________________________________________ > News mailing list > News@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/news From rkoenen intertrust.com Wed Nov 14 10:50:56 2001 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:18 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times Message-ID: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04BD9D0A@exchange.epr.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: YH [mailto:yh86us@yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2023 2:26 > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Cc: M4IF news (E-mail) > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times > > > > * iVAST And Sigma Designs Form Partnership to Offer a Set-Top > > Box Based On MPEG-4 > > Interesting. Will the MPEG-4 be used in DTV and HDTV? I was > heard that the > MPEG-4 won't replace MPEG-2? > And indeed it will not. Look at PACE - just launched an MPEG-2 STB that can also decode MPEG-4. MPEG-2 is for the basic programming, MPEG-4 for additional/enhanced wervices. Quite a good pair I'd say. Rob From JMcClenny sandstream.com Wed Nov 14 13:20:41 2001 From: JMcClenny sandstream.com (McClenny, John Doc) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:18 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times Message-ID: comments at the end > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: YH [mailto:yh86us@yahoo.com] > > > > > * iVAST And Sigma Designs Form Partnership to Offer a Set-Top > > > Box Based On MPEG-4 > > > > Interesting. Will the MPEG-4 be used in DTV and HDTV? I was > > heard that the > > MPEG-4 won't replace MPEG-2? > > > > And indeed it will not. Look at PACE - just launched an MPEG-2 STB > that can also decode MPEG-4. MPEG-2 is for the basic programming, > MPEG-4 for additional/enhanced wervices. MPEG-4 is cheap insurance at this point. The IP STB space is a lot less tied to MPEG-2 than the DBS/broadcast space. If MPEG-4 evolves to a 'better' solution for this market, MPEG-2 could go away. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011114/dd23a9fc/attachment.html From manish.singhal ittiam.com Thu Nov 15 09:57:01 2001 From: manish.singhal ittiam.com (Manish Singhal) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:19 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing Additional Visual Profiles Message-ID: <45A1F95BB9D7D84FAB0A1EB4D67EEF962579FE@IS01EX01.ittiam.com> Rob Couple of questions: - Suppose one buys any particular version of the standard, let us say MPEG-4 Visual Version 2. Then it is upgraded to include FGS etc, then one has to again pay ~250 CHF to get that extension ? Shouldn't there be an upgrade only pricing ? - Does the following announcement mean that the standard as well as the conformance bitstreams are available to be purchased ? Rgds Manish Singhal Manager, Video & Imaging Ittiam Systems Bangalore, India. > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 5:44 AM > To: M4IF news (E-mail); M4IF Patent WGs (E-mail); Open DTV (E-mail); > MPEG General (E-mail) > Cc: Larry Horn (E-mail); Kenneth Rubenstein (E-mail) > Subject: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing Additional > Visual Profiles > > > People, > > The following release marks the start of a process that will > enable joint licensing of essential patents in 3 more MPEG-4 > Visual Profiles: > * Simple Scalable > * Advanced Simple > * Fine Granular Scalability (FGS) > > This is in addition to the following Profiles, for which licensing is > slated to start in 2 months: > * Simple > * Core > > - Advanced Simple, a superset of Simple, has the latest coding > effiency tools in MPEG-4, and supports rectangular video objects. > - Simple Scalable and FGS are scalable extensions of Simple > (Simple is the base layer). > FGS can also be used with Advanced Simple as a base layer. > - Core is a superset of Simple, adding B frames ('B-VOPs') and > arbitrary-shape objects. > > This is an important milestone towards further deployment of MPEG-4 > technology. > > Kind Regards, > > > Rob Koenen (President M4IF) > (I apologize for duplicate mails through multiiple reflectors) > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- > - > For Immediate Release > > CONTACT: > Lawrence Horn, MPEG LA, LLC > 301.986.6660 > 301.986.8575 Fax > lhorn@mpegla.com > > > > MPEG LA? Announces M4IF Plan for Joint Licensing of Essential > MPEG-4 Patents > > (Denver, Colorado, US-14 November 2001) - The MPEG-4 Industry > Forum (M4IF) > has recommended that MPEG LA, LLC make the following > worldwide announcement: > > In furtherance of its plan aimed at providing fair, reasonable, > nondiscriminatory worldwide access under one license to > patents that are > essential for implementing the international MPEG-4 Visual > Standard, the > MPEG-4 Industry Forum (M4IF) has recommended that MPEG LA, > LLC, in its role > as Evaluation Administrator, call for the submission of patents for > evaluation of their essentiality to additional MPEG-4 Visual Standard > profiles, specifically Simple Scalable, Advanced Simple, and Fine > Granularity Scalable. > > The Simple Scalable profile is generally described in ISO/IEC > 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and 9-2 (pages 322 and > 324). The > Advanced Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable profiles are generally > described in ISO/IEC 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables AMD2-13 and > AMD2-14. These > latter tables can be found in the ISO document N3904, also > styled "ISO/IEC > 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" (pages 32-33). > Following is a summary of the approved plan: > > 1. Objective > > To establish a portfolio of essential worldwide patents that > are necessary > for implementation of the MPEG-4 Visual (Simple Scalable, > Advanced Simple, > and Fine Grain Scalability) standard in order to provide all > MPEG-4 Visual > users with fair, reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to this > technology > under one license. > > 2. Licensed patents > > Essential patents will consist of those that are necessary > for the Simple > Scalable (ISO/IEC 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and > 9-2 [pages 322 > and 324]), Advanced Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable (ISO/IEC > 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables AMD2-13 and AMD2-14, which can > be found in the > ISO document N3904, also styled "ISO/IEC 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" > [pages 32-33]) > profiles of the MPEG-4 Visual Standard. > > 3. Organization > > The joint patent portfolio license may require at least three > functions: > > First, an Administrative Committee consisting of > representatives of the > essential patent owners will meet to consider licensing terms > and conditions > and monitor certain activities of a Licensing Administrator. > > Second, the Licensing Administrator, who is granted non-exclusive > sublicensing rights from patent owners under licensed > patents, actively > promotes the licensing program and distributes collected > royalties to the > patent owners. The Licensing Administrator will be chosen by > the initial > group of patent holders comprising the Administrative Committee. > > Third, an Evaluator who is a neutral, third party patent expert will > evaluate patents for essentiality to the Simple Scalable (ISO/IEC > 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and 9-2 [pages 322 and > 324]), Advanced > Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable (ISO/IEC > 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables > AMD2-13 and AMD2-14, which can be found in the ISO document > N3904, also > styled "ISO/IEC 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" [pages 32-33]) profiles > of the MPEG-4 > Visual Standard. Any party that believes it has essential patents is > invited to submit them for evaluation and inclusion. For each patent > submitted, an evaluation fee of US $8,500.00 will be paid to > MPEG LA, LLC > (as below) to cover costs of the patent expert's evaluation. > > Members of the Administrative Committee will be determined by > the results of > the patent essentiality evaluation. > > 4. Licensing details > > To be determined by the Administrative Committee consisting of > representatives of the essential patent owners. > 5. Extension of the scope of the licensed patents > > On M4IF's recommendation and request, MPEG LA? earlier called for the > submission of patents for an evaluation of their essentiality to the > normative part of the Simple and Core profiles of the MPEG-4 > Visual Standard > by an independent patent expert, and is currently > facilitating the efforts > of essential patent owners to develop a joint license providing fair, > reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to their essential intellectual > property. > > 6. Schedule (Initial Plan) > > Initial patent submissions: by March 1, 2024 (although > patent submissions > may continue to be submitted after that date, owners of > essential patents in > the initial group of patents submitted by the March 1 date > will form the > initial group of Licensors and Administrative Committee that > will select a > Licensing Administrator and determine the terms of license). > > Evaluation: March - June 2002 > > Upon the above consensus, M4IF recommended that MPEG LA? make > this worldwide > announcement. > > Accordingly, MPEG LA? hereby announces that any company which > believes it > has patents that are essential to the Simple Scalable, > Advanced Simple and > Fine Granularity Scalable profiles of the MPEG-4 Visual Standard (as > described above) and wishes to join the patent pool upon successful > evaluation is invited to submit such patents to the Evaluator > (identified > below) by March 1, 2002, together with a statement confirming > its agreement > with the objectives and intention to abide by terms and > procedures governing > the patent submission process. Terms and procedures governing patent > submissions may be obtained from Lawrence A. Horn, Vice > President, Licensing > and Business Development, MPEG LA, LLC (lhorn@mpegla.com, phone > 1-301-986-6660, fax 1-301-986-8575). > > Evaluator: > > Dr. Kenneth Rubenstein > PROSKAUER ROSE LLP > 1585 Broadway > New York, NY10036-8299 > Tel. 212-969-3000 > Fax. 212-969-2900 > krubenstein@proskauer.com > > # # # > > > > > > Overview of the MPEG-4 Standard > > MPEG-4 is an ISO/IEC multi-media representation standard > developed by its > Moving Picture Experts Group (MPEG). MPEG also developed > MPEG-1, which > makes possible interactive video on CD-ROM and is present on > virtually every > personal computer, and MPEG-2, the core compression > technology underlying > the efficient transmission, storage and display of digitized > moving images > and sound tracks on which high definition television (HDTV), > Digital Video > Broadcasting (DVB), direct broadcast by satellite (DBS), digital cable > television systems, multichannel-multipoint distribution > services (MMDS), > personal computer video, digital versatile discs (DVD), > interactive media > and other forms of digital video delivery, storage, transport > and display > are based. > > MPEG-4 is the result of yet another international effort > involving hundreds > of researchers and engineers from all over the world. Building on the > successes of MPEG's earlier standards, MPEG-4 enables > integration of the > production, distribution and content access features of > digital television, > interactive graphics applications and interactive multimedia > across internet > protocol, wireless, low bitrate, broadcast, satellite, cable > and mobile > environments. With MPEG-4, all content elements can be maintained as > discrete objects enabling richer interactivity and use across > many different > devices More information about MPEG-4 can be found at > MPEG's home page > and at the home page of the MPEG-4 > Industry Forum . > > MPEG-4 Industry Forum (M4IF) > > While M4IF recommended that MPEG LA? take the steps as > described in this > release, all steps described herein are carried out outside and > independently of M4IF. M4IF encourages all and any steps > that will lead to > easy access to reasonable and non-discriminatory licenses for patents > essential to the MPEG-4 Standard. > > The M4IF was organized on May 29, 2024 as a not-for-profit > corporation "To > further the adoption and widespread use of the MPEG-4 Standard, by > establishing MPEG-4 as an accepted standard among application > developers, > service providers, content creators and end users." Based in > Switzerland, > M4IF is open to all parties that support this goal and pay the yearly > membership fee of (US) $3,000. M4IF carries on activities outside of > ISO/IEC's scope, such as: > > * Promoting the MPEG-4 Standard, and serving as a single point of > information on MPEG-4 technology, products and services; > * Initiating discussions leading to the potential establishment of > patent portfolios outside of M4IF in order to grant licenses to all > applicants throughout the world under reasonable terms and > conditions that > are demonstrably free of any unfair competition; > * Organization of MPEG-4 exhibitions and tutorials; > * Carrying out interoperability tests. > > Since its official establishment, over 100 companies have > joined the Forum. > > > MPEG LA, LLC > > MPEG LA* successfully pioneered one-stop technology standards > licensing, > starting with a portfolio of essential patents for the > international digital > video compression standard known as MPEG-2, which it began > licensing in > 1997. One-stop technology standards licensing enables widespread > technological implementation, interoperability and use of fundamental > broad-based technologies covered by many patents owned by > many different > patent holders. MPEG LA* provides users with fair, reasonable, > nondiscriminatory access to these essential patents on a > worldwide basis > under a single license. The MPEG-2 Patent Portfolio License now has > approximately 350 licensees and includes almost 400 MPEG-2 > essential patents > owned by 19 patent holders. As the legal and business > template for one-stop > technology standards licensing, MPEG LA* also provides an > innovative way to > achieve fair, reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to patent > rights for > other technology standards - the high-speed transfer digital > interconnect > standard known as IEEE 1394 and the terrestrial digital > television standard > used in Europe and Asia known as DVB-T. In addition, MPEG > LA? has been > asked to facilitate the development of joint licenses for > MPEG-4 and other > emerging technologies. The company is based in Denver, CO > and has offices > in Chevy Chase, MD (Washington DC metropolitan area), the greater San > Francisco area and London, England. For more information, > please refer to > , and > . > > _______________________________________________ > News mailing list > News@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/news > From rkoenen intertrust.com Wed Nov 14 21:46:46 2001 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:19 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing Additional Visual Profile s Message-ID: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04BD9D4A@exchange.epr.com> Manish, It is extremely important that people on this list understand the respective responsibilities of the various parties involved. The following announcement has nothing to do with MPEG, nor with ISO. Dealing with patents and licenses is also out of M4IF's mandate and charter. Hence, it does not imply anything with respect to conformance bitstreams - these belong to the conformance part of the standard. I assume there is someone on this list that knows about the state of FGS and AS conformance streams, so please let them speak up. > - Suppose one buys any particular version of the standard, let us say > MPEG-4 Visual Version 2. Then it is upgraded to include FGS etc, then > one has to again pay ~250 CHF to get that extension ? Shouldn't there > be an upgrade only pricing ? Only ISO can talk about ISO pricing policy, not M4IF. Please direct this question at sales@iso.ch I can voice my opinions about what should and should not be the pricing of updates, but in this case my opinion doesn't matter much. As far as I am concerned all MPEG standards could be free, but that would be a significant blow to the infrastructure that publishes the standards. 250 CHF (150 USD) is not much for all the work that went into that spec. Kind Regards, Rob Koenen > -----Original Message----- > From: Manish Singhal [mailto:manish.singhal@ittiam.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2023 20:27 > To: Rob Koenen > Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: RE: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing Additional Visual > Profiles > > > > Rob > > Couple of questions: > - Suppose one buys any particular version of the standard, let us say > MPEG-4 Visual Version 2. Then it is upgraded to include FGS etc, then > one has to again pay ~250 CHF to get that extension ? Shouldn't there > be an upgrade only pricing ? > > - Does the following announcement mean that the standard as > well as the > conformance bitstreams are available to be purchased ? > > Rgds > Manish Singhal > Manager, Video & Imaging > Ittiam Systems > Bangalore, India. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] > > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 5:44 AM > > To: M4IF news (E-mail); M4IF Patent WGs (E-mail); Open DTV (E-mail); > > MPEG General (E-mail) > > Cc: Larry Horn (E-mail); Kenneth Rubenstein (E-mail) > > Subject: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing Additional > > Visual Profiles > > > > > > People, > > > > The following release marks the start of a process that will > > enable joint licensing of essential patents in 3 more MPEG-4 > > Visual Profiles: > > * Simple Scalable > > * Advanced Simple > > * Fine Granular Scalability (FGS) > > > > This is in addition to the following Profiles, for which > licensing is > > slated to start in 2 months: > > * Simple > > * Core > > > > - Advanced Simple, a superset of Simple, has the latest coding > > effiency tools in MPEG-4, and supports rectangular video objects. > > - Simple Scalable and FGS are scalable extensions of Simple > > (Simple is the base layer). > > FGS can also be used with Advanced Simple as a base layer. > > - Core is a superset of Simple, adding B frames ('B-VOPs') and > > arbitrary-shape objects. > > > > This is an important milestone towards further deployment of MPEG-4 > > technology. > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > Rob Koenen (President M4IF) > > (I apologize for duplicate mails through multiiple reflectors) > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------- > > - > > For Immediate Release > > > > CONTACT: > > Lawrence Horn, MPEG LA, LLC > > 301.986.6660 > > 301.986.8575 Fax > > lhorn@mpegla.com > > > > > > > > MPEG LA? Announces M4IF Plan for Joint Licensing of Essential > > MPEG-4 Patents > > > > (Denver, Colorado, US-14 November 2001) - The MPEG-4 Industry > > Forum (M4IF) > > has recommended that MPEG LA, LLC make the following > > worldwide announcement: > > > > In furtherance of its plan aimed at providing fair, reasonable, > > nondiscriminatory worldwide access under one license to > > patents that are > > essential for implementing the international MPEG-4 Visual > > Standard, the > > MPEG-4 Industry Forum (M4IF) has recommended that MPEG LA, > > LLC, in its role > > as Evaluation Administrator, call for the submission of patents for > > evaluation of their essentiality to additional MPEG-4 > Visual Standard > > profiles, specifically Simple Scalable, Advanced Simple, and Fine > > Granularity Scalable. > > > > The Simple Scalable profile is generally described in ISO/IEC > > 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and 9-2 (pages 322 and > > 324). The > > Advanced Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable profiles are generally > > described in ISO/IEC 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables AMD2-13 and > > AMD2-14. These > > latter tables can be found in the ISO document N3904, also > > styled "ISO/IEC > > 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" (pages 32-33). > > Following is a summary of the approved plan: > > > > 1. Objective > > > > To establish a portfolio of essential worldwide patents that > > are necessary > > for implementation of the MPEG-4 Visual (Simple Scalable, > > Advanced Simple, > > and Fine Grain Scalability) standard in order to provide all > > MPEG-4 Visual > > users with fair, reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to this > > technology > > under one license. > > > > 2. Licensed patents > > > > Essential patents will consist of those that are necessary > > for the Simple > > Scalable (ISO/IEC 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and > > 9-2 [pages 322 > > and 324]), Advanced Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable (ISO/IEC > > 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables AMD2-13 and AMD2-14, which can > > be found in the > > ISO document N3904, also styled "ISO/IEC 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" > > [pages 32-33]) > > profiles of the MPEG-4 Visual Standard. > > > > 3. Organization > > > > The joint patent portfolio license may require at least three > > functions: > > > > First, an Administrative Committee consisting of > > representatives of the > > essential patent owners will meet to consider licensing terms > > and conditions > > and monitor certain activities of a Licensing Administrator. > > > > Second, the Licensing Administrator, who is granted non-exclusive > > sublicensing rights from patent owners under licensed > > patents, actively > > promotes the licensing program and distributes collected > > royalties to the > > patent owners. The Licensing Administrator will be chosen by > > the initial > > group of patent holders comprising the Administrative Committee. > > > > Third, an Evaluator who is a neutral, third party patent expert will > > evaluate patents for essentiality to the Simple Scalable (ISO/IEC > > 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and 9-2 [pages 322 and > > 324]), Advanced > > Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable (ISO/IEC > > 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables > > AMD2-13 and AMD2-14, which can be found in the ISO document > > N3904, also > > styled "ISO/IEC 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" [pages 32-33]) profiles > > of the MPEG-4 > > Visual Standard. Any party that believes it has essential > patents is > > invited to submit them for evaluation and inclusion. For > each patent > > submitted, an evaluation fee of US $8,500.00 will be paid to > > MPEG LA, LLC > > (as below) to cover costs of the patent expert's evaluation. > > > > Members of the Administrative Committee will be determined by > > the results of > > the patent essentiality evaluation. > > > > 4. Licensing details > > > > To be determined by the Administrative Committee consisting of > > representatives of the essential patent owners. > > 5. Extension of the scope of the licensed patents > > > > On M4IF's recommendation and request, MPEG LA? earlier > called for the > > submission of patents for an evaluation of their essentiality to the > > normative part of the Simple and Core profiles of the MPEG-4 > > Visual Standard > > by an independent patent expert, and is currently > > facilitating the efforts > > of essential patent owners to develop a joint license > providing fair, > > reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to their essential intellectual > > property. > > > > 6. Schedule (Initial Plan) > > > > Initial patent submissions: by March 1, 2024 (although > > patent submissions > > may continue to be submitted after that date, owners of > > essential patents in > > the initial group of patents submitted by the March 1 date > > will form the > > initial group of Licensors and Administrative Committee that > > will select a > > Licensing Administrator and determine the terms of license). > > > > Evaluation: March - June 2002 > > > > Upon the above consensus, M4IF recommended that MPEG LA? make > > this worldwide > > announcement. > > > > Accordingly, MPEG LA? hereby announces that any company which > > believes it > > has patents that are essential to the Simple Scalable, > > Advanced Simple and > > Fine Granularity Scalable profiles of the MPEG-4 Visual Standard (as > > described above) and wishes to join the patent pool upon successful > > evaluation is invited to submit such patents to the Evaluator > > (identified > > below) by March 1, 2002, together with a statement confirming > > its agreement > > with the objectives and intention to abide by terms and > > procedures governing > > the patent submission process. Terms and procedures governing patent > > submissions may be obtained from Lawrence A. Horn, Vice > > President, Licensing > > and Business Development, MPEG LA, LLC (lhorn@mpegla.com, phone > > 1-301-986-6660, fax 1-301-986-8575). > > > > Evaluator: > > > > Dr. Kenneth Rubenstein > > PROSKAUER ROSE LLP > > 1585 Broadway > > New York, NY10036-8299 > > Tel. 212-969-3000 > > Fax. 212-969-2900 > > krubenstein@proskauer.com > > > > # # # > > > > > > > > > > > > Overview of the MPEG-4 Standard > > > > MPEG-4 is an ISO/IEC multi-media representation standard > > developed by its > > Moving Picture Experts Group (MPEG). MPEG also developed > > MPEG-1, which > > makes possible interactive video on CD-ROM and is present on > > virtually every > > personal computer, and MPEG-2, the core compression > > technology underlying > > the efficient transmission, storage and display of digitized > > moving images > > and sound tracks on which high definition television (HDTV), > > Digital Video > > Broadcasting (DVB), direct broadcast by satellite (DBS), > digital cable > > television systems, multichannel-multipoint distribution > > services (MMDS), > > personal computer video, digital versatile discs (DVD), > > interactive media > > and other forms of digital video delivery, storage, transport > > and display > > are based. > > > > MPEG-4 is the result of yet another international effort > > involving hundreds > > of researchers and engineers from all over the world. > Building on the > > successes of MPEG's earlier standards, MPEG-4 enables > > integration of the > > production, distribution and content access features of > > digital television, > > interactive graphics applications and interactive multimedia > > across internet > > protocol, wireless, low bitrate, broadcast, satellite, cable > > and mobile > > environments. With MPEG-4, all content elements can be > maintained as > > discrete objects enabling richer interactivity and use across > > many different > > devices More information about MPEG-4 can be found at > > MPEG's home page > > and at the home page of > the MPEG-4 > > Industry Forum . > > > > MPEG-4 Industry Forum (M4IF) > > > > While M4IF recommended that MPEG LA? take the steps as > > described in this > > release, all steps described herein are carried out outside and > > independently of M4IF. M4IF encourages all and any steps > > that will lead to > > easy access to reasonable and non-discriminatory licenses > for patents > > essential to the MPEG-4 Standard. > > > > The M4IF was organized on May 29, 2024 as a not-for-profit > > corporation "To > > further the adoption and widespread use of the MPEG-4 Standard, by > > establishing MPEG-4 as an accepted standard among application > > developers, > > service providers, content creators and end users." Based in > > Switzerland, > > M4IF is open to all parties that support this goal and pay > the yearly > > membership fee of (US) $3,000. M4IF carries on activities > outside of > > ISO/IEC's scope, such as: > > > > * Promoting the MPEG-4 Standard, and serving as a single point of > > information on MPEG-4 technology, products and services; > > * Initiating discussions leading to the potential establishment of > > patent portfolios outside of M4IF in order to grant licenses to all > > applicants throughout the world under reasonable terms and > > conditions that > > are demonstrably free of any unfair competition; > > * Organization of MPEG-4 exhibitions and tutorials; > > * Carrying out interoperability tests. > > > > Since its official establishment, over 100 companies have > > joined the Forum. > > > > > > MPEG LA, LLC > > > > MPEG LA* successfully pioneered one-stop technology standards > > licensing, > > starting with a portfolio of essential patents for the > > international digital > > video compression standard known as MPEG-2, which it began > > licensing in > > 1997. One-stop technology standards licensing enables widespread > > technological implementation, interoperability and use of > fundamental > > broad-based technologies covered by many patents owned by > > many different > > patent holders. MPEG LA* provides users with fair, reasonable, > > nondiscriminatory access to these essential patents on a > > worldwide basis > > under a single license. The MPEG-2 Patent Portfolio License now has > > approximately 350 licensees and includes almost 400 MPEG-2 > > essential patents > > owned by 19 patent holders. As the legal and business > > template for one-stop > > technology standards licensing, MPEG LA* also provides an > > innovative way to > > achieve fair, reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to patent > > rights for > > other technology standards - the high-speed transfer digital > > interconnect > > standard known as IEEE 1394 and the terrestrial digital > > television standard > > used in Europe and Asia known as DVB-T. In addition, MPEG > > LA? has been > > asked to facilitate the development of joint licenses for > > MPEG-4 and other > > emerging technologies. The company is based in Denver, CO > > and has offices > > in Chevy Chase, MD (Washington DC metropolitan area), the > greater San > > Francisco area and London, England. For more information, > > please refer to > > , and > > . > > > > _______________________________________________ > > News mailing list > > News@lists.m4if.org > > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/news > > > From manish.singhal ittiam.com Thu Nov 15 12:43:23 2001 From: manish.singhal ittiam.com (Manish Singhal) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:19 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing Additional Visual Profiles Message-ID: <45A1F95BB9D7D84FAB0A1EB4D67EEF96024CF1@IS01EX01.ittiam.com> Rob So, what does the following announcement mean : > > > People, > > > > > > The following release marks the start of a process that will > > > enable joint licensing of essential patents in 3 more MPEG-4 > > > Visual Profiles: > > > * Simple Scalable > > > * Advanced Simple > > > * Fine Granular Scalability (FGS) Does it just means that the licencing process has started ? I am a little rusty now how MP4IF charter is linked with the above process. Please do let me know your thoughts. Rgds Manish > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 11:17 AM > To: Manish Singhal; Rob Koenen > Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing > Additional Visual Profiles > > > Manish, > > It is extremely important that people on this list understand the > respective responsibilities of the various parties involved. > > The following announcement has nothing to do with MPEG, nor with ISO. > Dealing with patents and licenses is also out of M4IF's mandate and > charter. Hence, it does not imply anything with respect to > conformance > bitstreams - these belong to the conformance part of the standard. I > assume there is someone on this list that knows about the state of > FGS and AS conformance streams, so please let them speak up. > > > - Suppose one buys any particular version of the standard, > let us say > > MPEG-4 Visual Version 2. Then it is upgraded to include FGS > etc, then > > one has to again pay ~250 CHF to get that extension ? > Shouldn't there > > be an upgrade only pricing ? > > Only ISO can talk about ISO pricing policy, not M4IF. Please > direct this > question at sales@iso.ch > I can voice my opinions about what should and should not be > the pricing > of updates, but in this case my opinion doesn't matter much. > As far as I > am concerned all MPEG standards could be free, but that would be a > significant blow to the infrastructure that publishes the > standards. 250 > CHF (150 USD) is not much for all the work that went into that spec. > > Kind Regards, > Rob Koenen > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Manish Singhal [mailto:manish.singhal@ittiam.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2023 20:27 > > To: Rob Koenen > > Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org > > Subject: RE: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing Additional Visual > > Profiles > > > > > > > > Rob > > > > Couple of questions: > > - Suppose one buys any particular version of the standard, > let us say > > MPEG-4 Visual Version 2. Then it is upgraded to include FGS > etc, then > > one has to again pay ~250 CHF to get that extension ? > Shouldn't there > > be an upgrade only pricing ? > > > > - Does the following announcement mean that the standard as > > well as the > > conformance bitstreams are available to be purchased ? > > > > Rgds > > Manish Singhal > > Manager, Video & Imaging > > Ittiam Systems > > Bangalore, India. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 5:44 AM > > > To: M4IF news (E-mail); M4IF Patent WGs (E-mail); Open > DTV (E-mail); > > > MPEG General (E-mail) > > > Cc: Larry Horn (E-mail); Kenneth Rubenstein (E-mail) > > > Subject: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing Additional > > > Visual Profiles > > > > > > > > > People, > > > > > > The following release marks the start of a process that will > > > enable joint licensing of essential patents in 3 more MPEG-4 > > > Visual Profiles: > > > * Simple Scalable > > > * Advanced Simple > > > * Fine Granular Scalability (FGS) > > > > > > This is in addition to the following Profiles, for which > > licensing is > > > slated to start in 2 months: > > > * Simple > > > * Core > > > > > > - Advanced Simple, a superset of Simple, has the latest coding > > > effiency tools in MPEG-4, and supports rectangular > video objects. > > > - Simple Scalable and FGS are scalable extensions of Simple > > > (Simple is the base layer). > > > FGS can also be used with Advanced Simple as a base layer. > > > - Core is a superset of Simple, adding B frames ('B-VOPs') and > > > arbitrary-shape objects. > > > > > > This is an important milestone towards further deployment > of MPEG-4 > > > technology. > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > > > > Rob Koenen (President M4IF) > > > (I apologize for duplicate mails through multiiple reflectors) > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -------------- > > > - > > > For Immediate Release > > > > > > CONTACT: > > > Lawrence Horn, MPEG LA, LLC > > > 301.986.6660 > > > 301.986.8575 Fax > > > lhorn@mpegla.com > > > > > > > > > > > > MPEG LA? Announces M4IF Plan for Joint Licensing of Essential > > > MPEG-4 Patents > > > > > > (Denver, Colorado, US-14 November 2001) - The MPEG-4 Industry > > > Forum (M4IF) > > > has recommended that MPEG LA, LLC make the following > > > worldwide announcement: > > > > > > In furtherance of its plan aimed at providing fair, reasonable, > > > nondiscriminatory worldwide access under one license to > > > patents that are > > > essential for implementing the international MPEG-4 Visual > > > Standard, the > > > MPEG-4 Industry Forum (M4IF) has recommended that MPEG LA, > > > LLC, in its role > > > as Evaluation Administrator, call for the submission of > patents for > > > evaluation of their essentiality to additional MPEG-4 > > Visual Standard > > > profiles, specifically Simple Scalable, Advanced Simple, and Fine > > > Granularity Scalable. > > > > > > The Simple Scalable profile is generally described in ISO/IEC > > > 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and 9-2 (pages 322 and > > > 324). The > > > Advanced Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable profiles > are generally > > > described in ISO/IEC 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables AMD2-13 and > > > AMD2-14. These > > > latter tables can be found in the ISO document N3904, also > > > styled "ISO/IEC > > > 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" (pages 32-33). > > > Following is a summary of the approved plan: > > > > > > 1. Objective > > > > > > To establish a portfolio of essential worldwide patents that > > > are necessary > > > for implementation of the MPEG-4 Visual (Simple Scalable, > > > Advanced Simple, > > > and Fine Grain Scalability) standard in order to provide all > > > MPEG-4 Visual > > > users with fair, reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to this > > > technology > > > under one license. > > > > > > 2. Licensed patents > > > > > > Essential patents will consist of those that are necessary > > > for the Simple > > > Scalable (ISO/IEC 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and > > > 9-2 [pages 322 > > > and 324]), Advanced Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable (ISO/IEC > > > 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables AMD2-13 and AMD2-14, which can > > > be found in the > > > ISO document N3904, also styled "ISO/IEC 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" > > > [pages 32-33]) > > > profiles of the MPEG-4 Visual Standard. > > > > > > 3. Organization > > > > > > The joint patent portfolio license may require at least three > > > functions: > > > > > > First, an Administrative Committee consisting of > > > representatives of the > > > essential patent owners will meet to consider licensing terms > > > and conditions > > > and monitor certain activities of a Licensing Administrator. > > > > > > Second, the Licensing Administrator, who is granted non-exclusive > > > sublicensing rights from patent owners under licensed > > > patents, actively > > > promotes the licensing program and distributes collected > > > royalties to the > > > patent owners. The Licensing Administrator will be chosen by > > > the initial > > > group of patent holders comprising the Administrative Committee. > > > > > > Third, an Evaluator who is a neutral, third party patent > expert will > > > evaluate patents for essentiality to the Simple Scalable (ISO/IEC > > > 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and 9-2 [pages 322 and > > > 324]), Advanced > > > Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable (ISO/IEC > > > 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables > > > AMD2-13 and AMD2-14, which can be found in the ISO document > > > N3904, also > > > styled "ISO/IEC 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" [pages 32-33]) profiles > > > of the MPEG-4 > > > Visual Standard. Any party that believes it has essential > > patents is > > > invited to submit them for evaluation and inclusion. For > > each patent > > > submitted, an evaluation fee of US $8,500.00 will be paid to > > > MPEG LA, LLC > > > (as below) to cover costs of the patent expert's evaluation. > > > > > > Members of the Administrative Committee will be determined by > > > the results of > > > the patent essentiality evaluation. > > > > > > 4. Licensing details > > > > > > To be determined by the Administrative Committee consisting of > > > representatives of the essential patent owners. > > > 5. Extension of the scope of the licensed patents > > > > > > On M4IF's recommendation and request, MPEG LA? earlier > > called for the > > > submission of patents for an evaluation of their > essentiality to the > > > normative part of the Simple and Core profiles of the MPEG-4 > > > Visual Standard > > > by an independent patent expert, and is currently > > > facilitating the efforts > > > of essential patent owners to develop a joint license > > providing fair, > > > reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to their essential > intellectual > > > property. > > > > > > 6. Schedule (Initial Plan) > > > > > > Initial patent submissions: by March 1, 2024 (although > > > patent submissions > > > may continue to be submitted after that date, owners of > > > essential patents in > > > the initial group of patents submitted by the March 1 date > > > will form the > > > initial group of Licensors and Administrative Committee that > > > will select a > > > Licensing Administrator and determine the terms of license). > > > > > > Evaluation: March - June 2002 > > > > > > Upon the above consensus, M4IF recommended that MPEG LA? make > > > this worldwide > > > announcement. > > > > > > Accordingly, MPEG LA? hereby announces that any company which > > > believes it > > > has patents that are essential to the Simple Scalable, > > > Advanced Simple and > > > Fine Granularity Scalable profiles of the MPEG-4 Visual > Standard (as > > > described above) and wishes to join the patent pool upon > successful > > > evaluation is invited to submit such patents to the Evaluator > > > (identified > > > below) by March 1, 2002, together with a statement confirming > > > its agreement > > > with the objectives and intention to abide by terms and > > > procedures governing > > > the patent submission process. Terms and procedures > governing patent > > > submissions may be obtained from Lawrence A. Horn, Vice > > > President, Licensing > > > and Business Development, MPEG LA, LLC (lhorn@mpegla.com, phone > > > 1-301-986-6660, fax 1-301-986-8575). > > > > > > Evaluator: > > > > > > Dr. Kenneth Rubenstein > > > PROSKAUER ROSE LLP > > > 1585 Broadway > > > New York, NY10036-8299 > > > Tel. 212-969-3000 > > > Fax. 212-969-2900 > > > krubenstein@proskauer.com > > > > > > # # # > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Overview of the MPEG-4 Standard > > > > > > MPEG-4 is an ISO/IEC multi-media representation standard > > > developed by its > > > Moving Picture Experts Group (MPEG). MPEG also developed > > > MPEG-1, which > > > makes possible interactive video on CD-ROM and is present on > > > virtually every > > > personal computer, and MPEG-2, the core compression > > > technology underlying > > > the efficient transmission, storage and display of digitized > > > moving images > > > and sound tracks on which high definition television (HDTV), > > > Digital Video > > > Broadcasting (DVB), direct broadcast by satellite (DBS), > > digital cable > > > television systems, multichannel-multipoint distribution > > > services (MMDS), > > > personal computer video, digital versatile discs (DVD), > > > interactive media > > > and other forms of digital video delivery, storage, transport > > > and display > > > are based. > > > > > > MPEG-4 is the result of yet another international effort > > > involving hundreds > > > of researchers and engineers from all over the world. > > Building on the > > > successes of MPEG's earlier standards, MPEG-4 enables > > > integration of the > > > production, distribution and content access features of > > > digital television, > > > interactive graphics applications and interactive multimedia > > > across internet > > > protocol, wireless, low bitrate, broadcast, satellite, cable > > > and mobile > > > environments. With MPEG-4, all content elements can be > > maintained as > > > discrete objects enabling richer interactivity and use across > > > many different > > > devices More information about MPEG-4 can be found at > > > MPEG's home page > > > and at the home page of > > the MPEG-4 > > > Industry Forum . > > > > > > MPEG-4 Industry Forum (M4IF) > > > > > > While M4IF recommended that MPEG LA? take the steps as > > > described in this > > > release, all steps described herein are carried out outside and > > > independently of M4IF. M4IF encourages all and any steps > > > that will lead to > > > easy access to reasonable and non-discriminatory licenses > > for patents > > > essential to the MPEG-4 Standard. > > > > > > The M4IF was organized on May 29, 2024 as a not-for-profit > > > corporation "To > > > further the adoption and widespread use of the MPEG-4 Standard, by > > > establishing MPEG-4 as an accepted standard among application > > > developers, > > > service providers, content creators and end users." Based in > > > Switzerland, > > > M4IF is open to all parties that support this goal and pay > > the yearly > > > membership fee of (US) $3,000. M4IF carries on activities > > outside of > > > ISO/IEC's scope, such as: > > > > > > * Promoting the MPEG-4 Standard, and serving as a single point of > > > information on MPEG-4 technology, products and services; > > > * Initiating discussions leading to the potential establishment of > > > patent portfolios outside of M4IF in order to grant > licenses to all > > > applicants throughout the world under reasonable terms and > > > conditions that > > > are demonstrably free of any unfair competition; > > > * Organization of MPEG-4 exhibitions and tutorials; > > > * Carrying out interoperability tests. > > > > > > Since its official establishment, over 100 companies have > > > joined the Forum. > > > > > > > > > MPEG LA, LLC > > > > > > MPEG LA* successfully pioneered one-stop technology standards > > > licensing, > > > starting with a portfolio of essential patents for the > > > international digital > > > video compression standard known as MPEG-2, which it began > > > licensing in > > > 1997. One-stop technology standards licensing enables widespread > > > technological implementation, interoperability and use of > > fundamental > > > broad-based technologies covered by many patents owned by > > > many different > > > patent holders. MPEG LA* provides users with fair, reasonable, > > > nondiscriminatory access to these essential patents on a > > > worldwide basis > > > under a single license. The MPEG-2 Patent Portfolio > License now has > > > approximately 350 licensees and includes almost 400 MPEG-2 > > > essential patents > > > owned by 19 patent holders. As the legal and business > > > template for one-stop > > > technology standards licensing, MPEG LA* also provides an > > > innovative way to > > > achieve fair, reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to patent > > > rights for > > > other technology standards - the high-speed transfer digital > > > interconnect > > > standard known as IEEE 1394 and the terrestrial digital > > > television standard > > > used in Europe and Asia known as DVB-T. In addition, MPEG > > > LA? has been > > > asked to facilitate the development of joint licenses for > > > MPEG-4 and other > > > emerging technologies. The company is based in Denver, CO > > > and has offices > > > in Chevy Chase, MD (Washington DC metropolitan area), the > > greater San > > > Francisco area and London, England. For more information, > > > please refer to > > > , and > > > . > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > News mailing list > > > News@lists.m4if.org > > > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/news > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From rkoenen intertrust.com Wed Nov 14 23:41:45 2001 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:19 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing Addi tional Visual Profiles Message-ID: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04EB816F@exchange.epr.com> Hi Manish, > Does it just means that the licencing process has started ? I am a > little rusty now how MP4IF charter is linked with the above process. > Please do let me know your thoughts. The release explains the steps towards licensing. My short version of the process: * This is the call for patents, * which will all be evaluated for essentiality by Kenneth Rubenstein, independent evaluator (essentiality means that patents are necessarily infringed by any implementation of the profile in question) * after that someone (probably MPEGLA) will call a meeting with owners of essential IP * after that they will have meetings and hopefully announce something soon But you should really read the release itself to understand the details. It is not unlikely there is a connection between licensing that is about to start for Simple and Core and the licensing for the new profiles. What does M4IF have to do with all this? Not much actually, besides some bootstrapping and information distribution. See http://www.m4if.org/patents/index.html Hope this helps, Rob I don't usually do disclaimers, but I must stress that I am not a lawyer, and that this is my layman's representation of a process in which I am not actively involved, even though I was involved in crafting M4IF recommendations that lead to this process. The release is the ultimate reference. It will be here http://www.m4if.org/patents/index.html soon. From olivier.avaro francetelecom.com Thu Nov 15 08:51:54 2001 From: olivier.avaro francetelecom.com (Olivier Avaro) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:19 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002c01c16daa$a0ae9b30$3b436a20@rd.francetelecom.fr> RE: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times MPEG-4 is cheap insurance at this point. The IP STB space is a lot less tied to MPEG-2 than the DBS/broadcast space. If MPEG-4 evolves to a 'better' solution for this market, MPEG-2 could go away. MPEG-4 is not meant technically to replace MPEG-2. Defining a standard for STB is much more than just MPEG-2 or MPEG-4. It requires what e.g. DVB did, which is not done for MPEG-4. Considering all the work done to make MPEG-2 STB work, I doubt that it makes sense to switch to an MPEG-4 only solution. If what we are talking is just Video, I also doubt that MPEG-4 Video gain justifies the investment at high bitrates. What makes sense to me is the extension of base MPEG-2 services with MPEG-4 functionnality (streamed audio, video and graphics). This is what MPEG-4 was meant for in this context and technically it is sound. Kind regards, Olivier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011115/fe8a8d47/attachment.html From rkoenen intertrust.com Wed Nov 14 10:50:56 2001 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:20 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times Message-ID: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04BD9D0A@exchange.epr.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: YH [mailto:yh86us@yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2023 2:26 > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Cc: M4IF news (E-mail) > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times > > > > * iVAST And Sigma Designs Form Partnership to Offer a Set-Top > > Box Based On MPEG-4 > > Interesting. Will the MPEG-4 be used in DTV and HDTV? I was > heard that the > MPEG-4 won't replace MPEG-2? > And indeed it will not. Look at PACE - just launched an MPEG-2 STB that can also decode MPEG-4. MPEG-2 is for the basic programming, MPEG-4 for additional/enhanced wervices. Quite a good pair I'd say. Rob _______________________________________________ News mailing list News@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/news From rkoenen intertrust.com Wed Nov 14 10:50:56 2001 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:20 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times Message-ID: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04BD9D0A@exchange.epr.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: YH [mailto:yh86us@yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2023 2:26 > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Cc: M4IF news (E-mail) > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times > > > > * iVAST And Sigma Designs Form Partnership to Offer a Set-Top > > Box Based On MPEG-4 > > Interesting. Will the MPEG-4 be used in DTV and HDTV? I was > heard that the > MPEG-4 won't replace MPEG-2? > And indeed it will not. Look at PACE - just launched an MPEG-2 STB that can also decode MPEG-4. MPEG-2 is for the basic programming, MPEG-4 for additional/enhanced wervices. Quite a good pair I'd say. Rob _______________________________________________ News mailing list News@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/news From JMcClenny sandstream.com Wed Nov 14 13:20:41 2001 From: JMcClenny sandstream.com (McClenny, John Doc) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:20 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times Message-ID: comments at the end > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: YH [mailto:yh86us@yahoo.com] > > > > > * iVAST And Sigma Designs Form Partnership to Offer a Set-Top > > > Box Based On MPEG-4 > > > > Interesting. Will the MPEG-4 be used in DTV and HDTV? I was > > heard that the > > MPEG-4 won't replace MPEG-2? > > > > And indeed it will not. Look at PACE - just launched an MPEG-2 STB > that can also decode MPEG-4. MPEG-2 is for the basic programming, > MPEG-4 for additional/enhanced wervices. MPEG-4 is cheap insurance at this point. The IP STB space is a lot less tied to MPEG-2 than the DBS/broadcast space. If MPEG-4 evolves to a 'better' solution for this market, MPEG-2 could go away. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011114/dd23a9fc/attachment-0001.html From Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de Thu Nov 15 09:34:00 2001 From: Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de (Klaus Diepold) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:20 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing Additional Visual Profiles In-Reply-To: <45A1F95BB9D7D84FAB0A1EB4D67EEF962579FE@IS01EX01.ittiam.com> Message-ID: Manish, sorry, my previous message was faulty. I checked back and the $0.00 pricing applies to the Corrigenda only. I guess that means that you have to buy a new standard as of now. However, some amendments e.g. the BIFS amendments can be bought seperately for SFr 92 or so. I also think that continuing to publish amendment after amendment without an upgrade path is not the greatest selling strategy. Klaus +-----Original Message----- +From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org +[mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Manish Singhal +Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 5:27 AM +To: Rob Koenen +Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org +Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing +Additional Visual Profiles + + + +Rob + +Couple of questions: +- Suppose one buys any particular version of the standard, let us say +MPEG-4 Visual Version 2. Then it is upgraded to include FGS etc, then +one has to again pay ~250 CHF to get that extension ? Shouldn't there +be an upgrade only pricing ? + +- Does the following announcement mean that the standard as well as the +conformance bitstreams are available to be purchased ? + +Rgds +Manish Singhal +Manager, Video & Imaging +Ittiam Systems +Bangalore, India. + +> -----Original Message----- +> From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] +> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 5:44 AM +> To: M4IF news (E-mail); M4IF Patent WGs (E-mail); Open DTV (E-mail); +> MPEG General (E-mail) +> Cc: Larry Horn (E-mail); Kenneth Rubenstein (E-mail) +> Subject: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing Additional +> Visual Profiles +> +> +> People, +> +> The following release marks the start of a process that will +> enable joint licensing of essential patents in 3 more MPEG-4 +> Visual Profiles: +> * Simple Scalable +> * Advanced Simple +> * Fine Granular Scalability (FGS) +> +> This is in addition to the following Profiles, for which licensing is +> slated to start in 2 months: +> * Simple +> * Core +> +> - Advanced Simple, a superset of Simple, has the latest coding +> effiency tools in MPEG-4, and supports rectangular video objects. +> - Simple Scalable and FGS are scalable extensions of Simple +> (Simple is the base layer). +> FGS can also be used with Advanced Simple as a base layer. +> - Core is a superset of Simple, adding B frames ('B-VOPs') and +> arbitrary-shape objects. +> +> This is an important milestone towards further deployment of MPEG-4 +> technology. +> +> Kind Regards, +> +> +> Rob Koenen (President M4IF) +> (I apologize for duplicate mails through multiiple reflectors) +> +> +> -------------------------------------------------------------- +> -------------- +> - +> For Immediate Release +> +> CONTACT: +> Lawrence Horn, MPEG LA, LLC +> 301.986.6660 +> 301.986.8575 Fax +> lhorn@mpegla.com +> +> +> +> MPEG LA? Announces M4IF Plan for Joint Licensing of Essential +> MPEG-4 Patents +> +> (Denver, Colorado, US-14 November 2001) - The MPEG-4 Industry +> Forum (M4IF) +> has recommended that MPEG LA, LLC make the following +> worldwide announcement: +> +> In furtherance of its plan aimed at providing fair, reasonable, +> nondiscriminatory worldwide access under one license to +> patents that are +> essential for implementing the international MPEG-4 Visual +> Standard, the +> MPEG-4 Industry Forum (M4IF) has recommended that MPEG LA, +> LLC, in its role +> as Evaluation Administrator, call for the submission of patents for +> evaluation of their essentiality to additional MPEG-4 Visual Standard +> profiles, specifically Simple Scalable, Advanced Simple, and Fine +> Granularity Scalable. +> +> The Simple Scalable profile is generally described in ISO/IEC +> 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and 9-2 (pages 322 and +> 324). The +> Advanced Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable profiles are generally +> described in ISO/IEC 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables AMD2-13 and +> AMD2-14. These +> latter tables can be found in the ISO document N3904, also +> styled "ISO/IEC +> 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" (pages 32-33). +> Following is a summary of the approved plan: +> +> 1. Objective +> +> To establish a portfolio of essential worldwide patents that +> are necessary +> for implementation of the MPEG-4 Visual (Simple Scalable, +> Advanced Simple, +> and Fine Grain Scalability) standard in order to provide all +> MPEG-4 Visual +> users with fair, reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to this +> technology +> under one license. +> +> 2. Licensed patents +> +> Essential patents will consist of those that are necessary +> for the Simple +> Scalable (ISO/IEC 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and +> 9-2 [pages 322 +> and 324]), Advanced Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable (ISO/IEC +> 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables AMD2-13 and AMD2-14, which can +> be found in the +> ISO document N3904, also styled "ISO/IEC 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" +> [pages 32-33]) +> profiles of the MPEG-4 Visual Standard. +> +> 3. Organization +> +> The joint patent portfolio license may require at least three +> functions: +> +> First, an Administrative Committee consisting of +> representatives of the +> essential patent owners will meet to consider licensing terms +> and conditions +> and monitor certain activities of a Licensing Administrator. +> +> Second, the Licensing Administrator, who is granted non-exclusive +> sublicensing rights from patent owners under licensed +> patents, actively +> promotes the licensing program and distributes collected +> royalties to the +> patent owners. The Licensing Administrator will be chosen by +> the initial +> group of patent holders comprising the Administrative Committee. +> +> Third, an Evaluator who is a neutral, third party patent expert will +> evaluate patents for essentiality to the Simple Scalable (ISO/IEC +> 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and 9-2 [pages 322 and +> 324]), Advanced +> Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable (ISO/IEC +> 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables +> AMD2-13 and AMD2-14, which can be found in the ISO document +> N3904, also +> styled "ISO/IEC 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" [pages 32-33]) profiles +> of the MPEG-4 +> Visual Standard. Any party that believes it has essential patents is +> invited to submit them for evaluation and inclusion. For each patent +> submitted, an evaluation fee of US $8,500.00 will be paid to +> MPEG LA, LLC +> (as below) to cover costs of the patent expert's evaluation. +> +> Members of the Administrative Committee will be determined by +> the results of +> the patent essentiality evaluation. +> +> 4. Licensing details +> +> To be determined by the Administrative Committee consisting of +> representatives of the essential patent owners. +> 5. Extension of the scope of the licensed patents +> +> On M4IF's recommendation and request, MPEG LA? earlier called for the +> submission of patents for an evaluation of their essentiality to the +> normative part of the Simple and Core profiles of the MPEG-4 +> Visual Standard +> by an independent patent expert, and is currently +> facilitating the efforts +> of essential patent owners to develop a joint license providing fair, +> reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to their essential intellectual +> property. +> +> 6. Schedule (Initial Plan) +> +> Initial patent submissions: by March 1, 2024 (although +> patent submissions +> may continue to be submitted after that date, owners of +> essential patents in +> the initial group of patents submitted by the March 1 date +> will form the +> initial group of Licensors and Administrative Committee that +> will select a +> Licensing Administrator and determine the terms of license). +> +> Evaluation: March - June 2002 +> +> Upon the above consensus, M4IF recommended that MPEG LA? make +> this worldwide +> announcement. +> +> Accordingly, MPEG LA? hereby announces that any company which +> believes it +> has patents that are essential to the Simple Scalable, +> Advanced Simple and +> Fine Granularity Scalable profiles of the MPEG-4 Visual Standard (as +> described above) and wishes to join the patent pool upon successful +> evaluation is invited to submit such patents to the Evaluator +> (identified +> below) by March 1, 2002, together with a statement confirming +> its agreement +> with the objectives and intention to abide by terms and +> procedures governing +> the patent submission process. Terms and procedures governing patent +> submissions may be obtained from Lawrence A. Horn, Vice +> President, Licensing +> and Business Development, MPEG LA, LLC (lhorn@mpegla.com, phone +> 1-301-986-6660, fax 1-301-986-8575). +> +> Evaluator: +> +> Dr. Kenneth Rubenstein +> PROSKAUER ROSE LLP +> 1585 Broadway +> New York, NY10036-8299 +> Tel. 212-969-3000 +> Fax. 212-969-2900 +> krubenstein@proskauer.com +> +> # # # +> +> +> +> +> +> Overview of the MPEG-4 Standard +> +> MPEG-4 is an ISO/IEC multi-media representation standard +> developed by its +> Moving Picture Experts Group (MPEG). MPEG also developed +> MPEG-1, which +> makes possible interactive video on CD-ROM and is present on +> virtually every +> personal computer, and MPEG-2, the core compression +> technology underlying +> the efficient transmission, storage and display of digitized +> moving images +> and sound tracks on which high definition television (HDTV), +> Digital Video +> Broadcasting (DVB), direct broadcast by satellite (DBS), digital cable +> television systems, multichannel-multipoint distribution +> services (MMDS), +> personal computer video, digital versatile discs (DVD), +> interactive media +> and other forms of digital video delivery, storage, transport +> and display +> are based. +> +> MPEG-4 is the result of yet another international effort +> involving hundreds +> of researchers and engineers from all over the world. Building on the +> successes of MPEG's earlier standards, MPEG-4 enables +> integration of the +> production, distribution and content access features of +> digital television, +> interactive graphics applications and interactive multimedia +> across internet +> protocol, wireless, low bitrate, broadcast, satellite, cable +> and mobile +> environments. With MPEG-4, all content elements can be maintained as +> discrete objects enabling richer interactivity and use across +> many different +> devices More information about MPEG-4 can be found at +> MPEG's home page +> and at the home page of the MPEG-4 +> Industry Forum . +> +> MPEG-4 Industry Forum (M4IF) +> +> While M4IF recommended that MPEG LA? take the steps as +> described in this +> release, all steps described herein are carried out outside and +> independently of M4IF. M4IF encourages all and any steps +> that will lead to +> easy access to reasonable and non-discriminatory licenses for patents +> essential to the MPEG-4 Standard. +> +> The M4IF was organized on May 29, 2024 as a not-for-profit +> corporation "To +> further the adoption and widespread use of the MPEG-4 Standard, by +> establishing MPEG-4 as an accepted standard among application +> developers, +> service providers, content creators and end users." Based in +> Switzerland, +> M4IF is open to all parties that support this goal and pay the yearly +> membership fee of (US) $3,000. M4IF carries on activities outside of +> ISO/IEC's scope, such as: +> +> * Promoting the MPEG-4 Standard, and serving as a single point of +> information on MPEG-4 technology, products and services; +> * Initiating discussions leading to the potential establishment of +> patent portfolios outside of M4IF in order to grant licenses to all +> applicants throughout the world under reasonable terms and +> conditions that +> are demonstrably free of any unfair competition; +> * Organization of MPEG-4 exhibitions and tutorials; +> * Carrying out interoperability tests. +> +> Since its official establishment, over 100 companies have +> joined the Forum. +> +> +> MPEG LA, LLC +> +> MPEG LA* successfully pioneered one-stop technology standards +> licensing, +> starting with a portfolio of essential patents for the +> international digital +> video compression standard known as MPEG-2, which it began +> licensing in +> 1997. One-stop technology standards licensing enables widespread +> technological implementation, interoperability and use of fundamental +> broad-based technologies covered by many patents owned by +> many different +> patent holders. MPEG LA* provides users with fair, reasonable, +> nondiscriminatory access to these essential patents on a +> worldwide basis +> under a single license. The MPEG-2 Patent Portfolio License now has +> approximately 350 licensees and includes almost 400 MPEG-2 +> essential patents +> owned by 19 patent holders. As the legal and business +> template for one-stop +> technology standards licensing, MPEG LA* also provides an +> innovative way to +> achieve fair, reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to patent +> rights for +> other technology standards - the high-speed transfer digital +> interconnect +> standard known as IEEE 1394 and the terrestrial digital +> television standard +> used in Europe and Asia known as DVB-T. In addition, MPEG +> LA? has been +> asked to facilitate the development of joint licenses for +> MPEG-4 and other +> emerging technologies. The company is based in Denver, CO +> and has offices +> in Chevy Chase, MD (Washington DC metropolitan area), the greater San +> Francisco area and London, England. For more information, +> please refer to +> , and +> . +> +> _______________________________________________ +> News mailing list +> News@lists.m4if.org +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/news +> +_______________________________________________ +Technotes mailing list +Technotes@lists.m4if.org +http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes + + From Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de Thu Nov 15 09:49:03 2001 From: Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de (Klaus Diepold) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:20 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing Additional Visual Profiles In-Reply-To: <45A1F95BB9D7D84FAB0A1EB4D67EEF962579FE@IS01EX01.ittiam.com> Message-ID: Manish, I am not 100% certain, but when I checked last week the prices for the standards, the ammendments where quoted with $ 0.00. I hope that is actually true. Klaus +-----Original Message----- +From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org +[mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Manish Singhal +Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 5:27 AM +To: Rob Koenen +Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org +Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing +Additional Visual Profiles + + + +Rob + +Couple of questions: +- Suppose one buys any particular version of the standard, let us say +MPEG-4 Visual Version 2. Then it is upgraded to include FGS etc, then +one has to again pay ~250 CHF to get that extension ? Shouldn't there +be an upgrade only pricing ? + +- Does the following announcement mean that the standard as well as the +conformance bitstreams are available to be purchased ? + +Rgds +Manish Singhal +Manager, Video & Imaging +Ittiam Systems +Bangalore, India. + +> -----Original Message----- +> From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] +> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 5:44 AM +> To: M4IF news (E-mail); M4IF Patent WGs (E-mail); Open DTV (E-mail); +> MPEG General (E-mail) +> Cc: Larry Horn (E-mail); Kenneth Rubenstein (E-mail) +> Subject: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing Additional +> Visual Profiles +> +> +> People, +> +> The following release marks the start of a process that will +> enable joint licensing of essential patents in 3 more MPEG-4 +> Visual Profiles: +> * Simple Scalable +> * Advanced Simple +> * Fine Granular Scalability (FGS) +> +> This is in addition to the following Profiles, for which licensing is +> slated to start in 2 months: +> * Simple +> * Core +> +> - Advanced Simple, a superset of Simple, has the latest coding +> effiency tools in MPEG-4, and supports rectangular video objects. +> - Simple Scalable and FGS are scalable extensions of Simple +> (Simple is the base layer). +> FGS can also be used with Advanced Simple as a base layer. +> - Core is a superset of Simple, adding B frames ('B-VOPs') and +> arbitrary-shape objects. +> +> This is an important milestone towards further deployment of MPEG-4 +> technology. +> +> Kind Regards, +> +> +> Rob Koenen (President M4IF) +> (I apologize for duplicate mails through multiiple reflectors) +> +> +> -------------------------------------------------------------- +> -------------- +> - +> For Immediate Release +> +> CONTACT: +> Lawrence Horn, MPEG LA, LLC +> 301.986.6660 +> 301.986.8575 Fax +> lhorn@mpegla.com +> +> +> +> MPEG LA? Announces M4IF Plan for Joint Licensing of Essential +> MPEG-4 Patents +> +> (Denver, Colorado, US-14 November 2001) - The MPEG-4 Industry +> Forum (M4IF) +> has recommended that MPEG LA, LLC make the following +> worldwide announcement: +> +> In furtherance of its plan aimed at providing fair, reasonable, +> nondiscriminatory worldwide access under one license to +> patents that are +> essential for implementing the international MPEG-4 Visual +> Standard, the +> MPEG-4 Industry Forum (M4IF) has recommended that MPEG LA, +> LLC, in its role +> as Evaluation Administrator, call for the submission of patents for +> evaluation of their essentiality to additional MPEG-4 Visual Standard +> profiles, specifically Simple Scalable, Advanced Simple, and Fine +> Granularity Scalable. +> +> The Simple Scalable profile is generally described in ISO/IEC +> 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and 9-2 (pages 322 and +> 324). The +> Advanced Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable profiles are generally +> described in ISO/IEC 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables AMD2-13 and +> AMD2-14. These +> latter tables can be found in the ISO document N3904, also +> styled "ISO/IEC +> 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" (pages 32-33). +> Following is a summary of the approved plan: +> +> 1. Objective +> +> To establish a portfolio of essential worldwide patents that +> are necessary +> for implementation of the MPEG-4 Visual (Simple Scalable, +> Advanced Simple, +> and Fine Grain Scalability) standard in order to provide all +> MPEG-4 Visual +> users with fair, reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to this +> technology +> under one license. +> +> 2. Licensed patents +> +> Essential patents will consist of those that are necessary +> for the Simple +> Scalable (ISO/IEC 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and +> 9-2 [pages 322 +> and 324]), Advanced Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable (ISO/IEC +> 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables AMD2-13 and AMD2-14, which can +> be found in the +> ISO document N3904, also styled "ISO/IEC 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" +> [pages 32-33]) +> profiles of the MPEG-4 Visual Standard. +> +> 3. Organization +> +> The joint patent portfolio license may require at least three +> functions: +> +> First, an Administrative Committee consisting of +> representatives of the +> essential patent owners will meet to consider licensing terms +> and conditions +> and monitor certain activities of a Licensing Administrator. +> +> Second, the Licensing Administrator, who is granted non-exclusive +> sublicensing rights from patent owners under licensed +> patents, actively +> promotes the licensing program and distributes collected +> royalties to the +> patent owners. The Licensing Administrator will be chosen by +> the initial +> group of patent holders comprising the Administrative Committee. +> +> Third, an Evaluator who is a neutral, third party patent expert will +> evaluate patents for essentiality to the Simple Scalable (ISO/IEC +> 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and 9-2 [pages 322 and +> 324]), Advanced +> Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable (ISO/IEC +> 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables +> AMD2-13 and AMD2-14, which can be found in the ISO document +> N3904, also +> styled "ISO/IEC 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" [pages 32-33]) profiles +> of the MPEG-4 +> Visual Standard. Any party that believes it has essential patents is +> invited to submit them for evaluation and inclusion. For each patent +> submitted, an evaluation fee of US $8,500.00 will be paid to +> MPEG LA, LLC +> (as below) to cover costs of the patent expert's evaluation. +> +> Members of the Administrative Committee will be determined by +> the results of +> the patent essentiality evaluation. +> +> 4. Licensing details +> +> To be determined by the Administrative Committee consisting of +> representatives of the essential patent owners. +> 5. Extension of the scope of the licensed patents +> +> On M4IF's recommendation and request, MPEG LA? earlier called for the +> submission of patents for an evaluation of their essentiality to the +> normative part of the Simple and Core profiles of the MPEG-4 +> Visual Standard +> by an independent patent expert, and is currently +> facilitating the efforts +> of essential patent owners to develop a joint license providing fair, +> reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to their essential intellectual +> property. +> +> 6. Schedule (Initial Plan) +> +> Initial patent submissions: by March 1, 2024 (although +> patent submissions +> may continue to be submitted after that date, owners of +> essential patents in +> the initial group of patents submitted by the March 1 date +> will form the +> initial group of Licensors and Administrative Committee that +> will select a +> Licensing Administrator and determine the terms of license). +> +> Evaluation: March - June 2002 +> +> Upon the above consensus, M4IF recommended that MPEG LA? make +> this worldwide +> announcement. +> +> Accordingly, MPEG LA? hereby announces that any company which +> believes it +> has patents that are essential to the Simple Scalable, +> Advanced Simple and +> Fine Granularity Scalable profiles of the MPEG-4 Visual Standard (as +> described above) and wishes to join the patent pool upon successful +> evaluation is invited to submit such patents to the Evaluator +> (identified +> below) by March 1, 2002, together with a statement confirming +> its agreement +> with the objectives and intention to abide by terms and +> procedures governing +> the patent submission process. Terms and procedures governing patent +> submissions may be obtained from Lawrence A. Horn, Vice +> President, Licensing +> and Business Development, MPEG LA, LLC (lhorn@mpegla.com, phone +> 1-301-986-6660, fax 1-301-986-8575). +> +> Evaluator: +> +> Dr. Kenneth Rubenstein +> PROSKAUER ROSE LLP +> 1585 Broadway +> New York, NY10036-8299 +> Tel. 212-969-3000 +> Fax. 212-969-2900 +> krubenstein@proskauer.com +> +> # # # +> +> +> +> +> +> Overview of the MPEG-4 Standard +> +> MPEG-4 is an ISO/IEC multi-media representation standard +> developed by its +> Moving Picture Experts Group (MPEG). MPEG also developed +> MPEG-1, which +> makes possible interactive video on CD-ROM and is present on +> virtually every +> personal computer, and MPEG-2, the core compression +> technology underlying +> the efficient transmission, storage and display of digitized +> moving images +> and sound tracks on which high definition television (HDTV), +> Digital Video +> Broadcasting (DVB), direct broadcast by satellite (DBS), digital cable +> television systems, multichannel-multipoint distribution +> services (MMDS), +> personal computer video, digital versatile discs (DVD), +> interactive media +> and other forms of digital video delivery, storage, transport +> and display +> are based. +> +> MPEG-4 is the result of yet another international effort +> involving hundreds +> of researchers and engineers from all over the world. Building on the +> successes of MPEG's earlier standards, MPEG-4 enables +> integration of the +> production, distribution and content access features of +> digital television, +> interactive graphics applications and interactive multimedia +> across internet +> protocol, wireless, low bitrate, broadcast, satellite, cable +> and mobile +> environments. With MPEG-4, all content elements can be maintained as +> discrete objects enabling richer interactivity and use across +> many different +> devices More information about MPEG-4 can be found at +> MPEG's home page +> and at the home page of the MPEG-4 +> Industry Forum . +> +> MPEG-4 Industry Forum (M4IF) +> +> While M4IF recommended that MPEG LA? take the steps as +> described in this +> release, all steps described herein are carried out outside and +> independently of M4IF. M4IF encourages all and any steps +> that will lead to +> easy access to reasonable and non-discriminatory licenses for patents +> essential to the MPEG-4 Standard. +> +> The M4IF was organized on May 29, 2024 as a not-for-profit +> corporation "To +> further the adoption and widespread use of the MPEG-4 Standard, by +> establishing MPEG-4 as an accepted standard among application +> developers, +> service providers, content creators and end users." Based in +> Switzerland, +> M4IF is open to all parties that support this goal and pay the yearly +> membership fee of (US) $3,000. M4IF carries on activities outside of +> ISO/IEC's scope, such as: +> +> * Promoting the MPEG-4 Standard, and serving as a single point of +> information on MPEG-4 technology, products and services; +> * Initiating discussions leading to the potential establishment of +> patent portfolios outside of M4IF in order to grant licenses to all +> applicants throughout the world under reasonable terms and +> conditions that +> are demonstrably free of any unfair competition; +> * Organization of MPEG-4 exhibitions and tutorials; +> * Carrying out interoperability tests. +> +> Since its official establishment, over 100 companies have +> joined the Forum. +> +> +> MPEG LA, LLC +> +> MPEG LA* successfully pioneered one-stop technology standards +> licensing, +> starting with a portfolio of essential patents for the +> international digital +> video compression standard known as MPEG-2, which it began +> licensing in +> 1997. One-stop technology standards licensing enables widespread +> technological implementation, interoperability and use of fundamental +> broad-based technologies covered by many patents owned by +> many different +> patent holders. MPEG LA* provides users with fair, reasonable, +> nondiscriminatory access to these essential patents on a +> worldwide basis +> under a single license. The MPEG-2 Patent Portfolio License now has +> approximately 350 licensees and includes almost 400 MPEG-2 +> essential patents +> owned by 19 patent holders. As the legal and business +> template for one-stop +> technology standards licensing, MPEG LA* also provides an +> innovative way to +> achieve fair, reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to patent +> rights for +> other technology standards - the high-speed transfer digital +> interconnect +> standard known as IEEE 1394 and the terrestrial digital +> television standard +> used in Europe and Asia known as DVB-T. In addition, MPEG +> LA? has been +> asked to facilitate the development of joint licenses for +> MPEG-4 and other +> emerging technologies. The company is based in Denver, CO +> and has offices +> in Chevy Chase, MD (Washington DC metropolitan area), the greater San +> Francisco area and London, England. For more information, +> please refer to +> , and +> . +> +> _______________________________________________ +> News mailing list +> News@lists.m4if.org +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/news +> +_______________________________________________ +Technotes mailing list +Technotes@lists.m4if.org +http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes + + From Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de Thu Nov 15 09:59:30 2001 From: Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de (Klaus Diepold) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:20 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times In-Reply-To: <002c01c16daa$a0ae9b30$3b436a20@rd.francetelecom.fr> Message-ID: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE TimesOlivier, that's all very true. However, as we have already experienced during the MPEG standardisation work, there are sometimes arguments that lie outside the technical spectrum. Those "marketing" arguments are sometimes hard to understand or overcome. In essence, there maybe uses of the MPEG-4 technology that neither you nor I have anticipated in the first place. Klaus -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Olivier Avaro Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 8:52 AM To: 'McClenny, John Doc'; 'Rob Koenen'; yh86us@yahoo.com; technotes@lists.m4if.org Cc: 'M4IF news (E-mail)' Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times MPEG-4 is cheap insurance at this point. The IP STB space is a lot less tied to MPEG-2 than the DBS/broadcast space. If MPEG-4 evolves to a 'better' solution for this market, MPEG-2 could go away. MPEG-4 is not meant technically to replace MPEG-2. Defining a standard for STB is much more than just MPEG-2 or MPEG-4. It requires what e.g. DVB did, which is not done for MPEG-4. Considering all the work done to make MPEG-2 STB work, I doubt that it makes sense to switch to an MPEG-4 only solution. If what we are talking is just Video, I also doubt that MPEG-4 Video gain justifies the investment at high bitrates. What makes sense to me is the extension of base MPEG-2 services with MPEG-4 functionnality (streamed audio, video and graphics). This is what MPEG-4 was meant for in this context and technically it is sound. Kind regards, Olivier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011115/6fff5faa/attachment.html From manish.singhal ittiam.com Thu Nov 15 15:11:25 2001 From: manish.singhal ittiam.com (Manish Singhal) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:21 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing Additional Visual Profiles Message-ID: <45A1F95BB9D7D84FAB0A1EB4D67EEF96257A04@IS01EX01.ittiam.com> Klaus here is the response from ISO >Dear Mr. Singhal, > >We thank you for your e-mail and your interest in ISO products. > >However, we regret to inform that we do not offer a special pricing for >extensions, also, please advise if you still want to receive an offer for >the above mentioned draft amendment ? > >We look forward to hearing from you. > >Yours sincerely, >ISO/Marketing > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Manish Singhal" >To: >Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 5:31 AM >Subject: 14496-2:2001 FDAM2 > > > >Hello there > >Please inform us about the pricing of the above document. Also, we did >purchase the previous amendment from ISO (ISO/IEC 14496-2:1999/Amd >1:2000 ). Is there a special pricing for extensions. >Rgds >Manish Singhal. > Rgds Manish > -----Original Message----- > From: Klaus Diepold [mailto:Klaus.Diepold@dynapel.de] > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 2:19 PM > To: Manish Singhal; Rob Koenen > Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing > Additional Visual Profiles > > > Manish, > > I am not 100% certain, but when I checked last week the prices for the > standards, the ammendments where quoted with $ 0.00. I hope > that is actually > true. > > Klaus > > +-----Original Message----- > +From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > +[mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Manish Singhal > +Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 5:27 AM > +To: Rob Koenen > +Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org > +Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing > +Additional Visual Profiles > + > + > + > +Rob > + > +Couple of questions: > +- Suppose one buys any particular version of the standard, let us say > +MPEG-4 Visual Version 2. Then it is upgraded to include FGS etc, then > +one has to again pay ~250 CHF to get that extension ? > Shouldn't there > +be an upgrade only pricing ? > + > +- Does the following announcement mean that the standard as > well as the > +conformance bitstreams are available to be purchased ? > + > +Rgds > +Manish Singhal > +Manager, Video & Imaging > +Ittiam Systems > +Bangalore, India. > + > +> -----Original Message----- > +> From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] > +> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 5:44 AM > +> To: M4IF news (E-mail); M4IF Patent WGs (E-mail); Open DTV > (E-mail); > +> MPEG General (E-mail) > +> Cc: Larry Horn (E-mail); Kenneth Rubenstein (E-mail) > +> Subject: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing Additional > +> Visual Profiles > +> > +> > +> People, > +> > +> The following release marks the start of a process that will > +> enable joint licensing of essential patents in 3 more MPEG-4 > +> Visual Profiles: > +> * Simple Scalable > +> * Advanced Simple > +> * Fine Granular Scalability (FGS) > +> > +> This is in addition to the following Profiles, for which > licensing is > +> slated to start in 2 months: > +> * Simple > +> * Core > +> > +> - Advanced Simple, a superset of Simple, has the latest coding > +> effiency tools in MPEG-4, and supports rectangular video objects. > +> - Simple Scalable and FGS are scalable extensions of Simple > +> (Simple is the base layer). > +> FGS can also be used with Advanced Simple as a base layer. > +> - Core is a superset of Simple, adding B frames ('B-VOPs') and > +> arbitrary-shape objects. > +> > +> This is an important milestone towards further deployment of MPEG-4 > +> technology. > +> > +> Kind Regards, > +> > +> > +> Rob Koenen (President M4IF) > +> (I apologize for duplicate mails through multiiple reflectors) > +> > +> > +> -------------------------------------------------------------- > +> -------------- > +> - > +> For Immediate Release > +> > +> CONTACT: > +> Lawrence Horn, MPEG LA, LLC > +> 301.986.6660 > +> 301.986.8575 Fax > +> lhorn@mpegla.com > +> > +> > +> > +> MPEG LA? Announces M4IF Plan for Joint Licensing of Essential > +> MPEG-4 Patents > +> > +> (Denver, Colorado, US-14 November 2001) - The MPEG-4 Industry > +> Forum (M4IF) > +> has recommended that MPEG LA, LLC make the following > +> worldwide announcement: > +> > +> In furtherance of its plan aimed at providing fair, reasonable, > +> nondiscriminatory worldwide access under one license to > +> patents that are > +> essential for implementing the international MPEG-4 Visual > +> Standard, the > +> MPEG-4 Industry Forum (M4IF) has recommended that MPEG LA, > +> LLC, in its role > +> as Evaluation Administrator, call for the submission of patents for > +> evaluation of their essentiality to additional MPEG-4 > Visual Standard > +> profiles, specifically Simple Scalable, Advanced Simple, and Fine > +> Granularity Scalable. > +> > +> The Simple Scalable profile is generally described in ISO/IEC > +> 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and 9-2 (pages 322 and > +> 324). The > +> Advanced Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable profiles are > generally > +> described in ISO/IEC 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables AMD2-13 and > +> AMD2-14. These > +> latter tables can be found in the ISO document N3904, also > +> styled "ISO/IEC > +> 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" (pages 32-33). > +> Following is a summary of the approved plan: > +> > +> 1. Objective > +> > +> To establish a portfolio of essential worldwide patents that > +> are necessary > +> for implementation of the MPEG-4 Visual (Simple Scalable, > +> Advanced Simple, > +> and Fine Grain Scalability) standard in order to provide all > +> MPEG-4 Visual > +> users with fair, reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to this > +> technology > +> under one license. > +> > +> 2. Licensed patents > +> > +> Essential patents will consist of those that are necessary > +> for the Simple > +> Scalable (ISO/IEC 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and > +> 9-2 [pages 322 > +> and 324]), Advanced Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable (ISO/IEC > +> 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables AMD2-13 and AMD2-14, which can > +> be found in the > +> ISO document N3904, also styled "ISO/IEC 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" > +> [pages 32-33]) > +> profiles of the MPEG-4 Visual Standard. > +> > +> 3. Organization > +> > +> The joint patent portfolio license may require at least three > +> functions: > +> > +> First, an Administrative Committee consisting of > +> representatives of the > +> essential patent owners will meet to consider licensing terms > +> and conditions > +> and monitor certain activities of a Licensing Administrator. > +> > +> Second, the Licensing Administrator, who is granted non-exclusive > +> sublicensing rights from patent owners under licensed > +> patents, actively > +> promotes the licensing program and distributes collected > +> royalties to the > +> patent owners. The Licensing Administrator will be chosen by > +> the initial > +> group of patent holders comprising the Administrative Committee. > +> > +> Third, an Evaluator who is a neutral, third party patent > expert will > +> evaluate patents for essentiality to the Simple Scalable (ISO/IEC > +> 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and 9-2 [pages 322 and > +> 324]), Advanced > +> Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable (ISO/IEC > +> 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables > +> AMD2-13 and AMD2-14, which can be found in the ISO document > +> N3904, also > +> styled "ISO/IEC 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" [pages 32-33]) profiles > +> of the MPEG-4 > +> Visual Standard. Any party that believes it has essential > patents is > +> invited to submit them for evaluation and inclusion. For > each patent > +> submitted, an evaluation fee of US $8,500.00 will be paid to > +> MPEG LA, LLC > +> (as below) to cover costs of the patent expert's evaluation. > +> > +> Members of the Administrative Committee will be determined by > +> the results of > +> the patent essentiality evaluation. > +> > +> 4. Licensing details > +> > +> To be determined by the Administrative Committee consisting of > +> representatives of the essential patent owners. > +> 5. Extension of the scope of the licensed patents > +> > +> On M4IF's recommendation and request, MPEG LA? earlier > called for the > +> submission of patents for an evaluation of their > essentiality to the > +> normative part of the Simple and Core profiles of the MPEG-4 > +> Visual Standard > +> by an independent patent expert, and is currently > +> facilitating the efforts > +> of essential patent owners to develop a joint license > providing fair, > +> reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to their essential > intellectual > +> property. > +> > +> 6. Schedule (Initial Plan) > +> > +> Initial patent submissions: by March 1, 2024 (although > +> patent submissions > +> may continue to be submitted after that date, owners of > +> essential patents in > +> the initial group of patents submitted by the March 1 date > +> will form the > +> initial group of Licensors and Administrative Committee that > +> will select a > +> Licensing Administrator and determine the terms of license). > +> > +> Evaluation: March - June 2002 > +> > +> Upon the above consensus, M4IF recommended that MPEG LA? make > +> this worldwide > +> announcement. > +> > +> Accordingly, MPEG LA? hereby announces that any company which > +> believes it > +> has patents that are essential to the Simple Scalable, > +> Advanced Simple and > +> Fine Granularity Scalable profiles of the MPEG-4 Visual > Standard (as > +> described above) and wishes to join the patent pool upon successful > +> evaluation is invited to submit such patents to the Evaluator > +> (identified > +> below) by March 1, 2002, together with a statement confirming > +> its agreement > +> with the objectives and intention to abide by terms and > +> procedures governing > +> the patent submission process. Terms and procedures > governing patent > +> submissions may be obtained from Lawrence A. Horn, Vice > +> President, Licensing > +> and Business Development, MPEG LA, LLC (lhorn@mpegla.com, phone > +> 1-301-986-6660, fax 1-301-986-8575). > +> > +> Evaluator: > +> > +> Dr. Kenneth Rubenstein > +> PROSKAUER ROSE LLP > +> 1585 Broadway > +> New York, NY10036-8299 > +> Tel. 212-969-3000 > +> Fax. 212-969-2900 > +> krubenstein@proskauer.com > +> > +> # # # > +> > +> > +> > +> > +> > +> Overview of the MPEG-4 Standard > +> > +> MPEG-4 is an ISO/IEC multi-media representation standard > +> developed by its > +> Moving Picture Experts Group (MPEG). MPEG also developed > +> MPEG-1, which > +> makes possible interactive video on CD-ROM and is present on > +> virtually every > +> personal computer, and MPEG-2, the core compression > +> technology underlying > +> the efficient transmission, storage and display of digitized > +> moving images > +> and sound tracks on which high definition television (HDTV), > +> Digital Video > +> Broadcasting (DVB), direct broadcast by satellite (DBS), > digital cable > +> television systems, multichannel-multipoint distribution > +> services (MMDS), > +> personal computer video, digital versatile discs (DVD), > +> interactive media > +> and other forms of digital video delivery, storage, transport > +> and display > +> are based. > +> > +> MPEG-4 is the result of yet another international effort > +> involving hundreds > +> of researchers and engineers from all over the world. > Building on the > +> successes of MPEG's earlier standards, MPEG-4 enables > +> integration of the > +> production, distribution and content access features of > +> digital television, > +> interactive graphics applications and interactive multimedia > +> across internet > +> protocol, wireless, low bitrate, broadcast, satellite, cable > +> and mobile > +> environments. With MPEG-4, all content elements can be > maintained as > +> discrete objects enabling richer interactivity and use across > +> many different > +> devices More information about MPEG-4 can be found at > +> MPEG's home page > +> and at the home page of > the MPEG-4 > +> Industry Forum . > +> > +> MPEG-4 Industry Forum (M4IF) > +> > +> While M4IF recommended that MPEG LA? take the steps as > +> described in this > +> release, all steps described herein are carried out outside and > +> independently of M4IF. M4IF encourages all and any steps > +> that will lead to > +> easy access to reasonable and non-discriminatory licenses > for patents > +> essential to the MPEG-4 Standard. > +> > +> The M4IF was organized on May 29, 2024 as a not-for-profit > +> corporation "To > +> further the adoption and widespread use of the MPEG-4 Standard, by > +> establishing MPEG-4 as an accepted standard among application > +> developers, > +> service providers, content creators and end users." Based in > +> Switzerland, > +> M4IF is open to all parties that support this goal and pay > the yearly > +> membership fee of (US) $3,000. M4IF carries on activities > outside of > +> ISO/IEC's scope, such as: > +> > +> * Promoting the MPEG-4 Standard, and serving as a single point of > +> information on MPEG-4 technology, products and services; > +> * Initiating discussions leading to the potential establishment of > +> patent portfolios outside of M4IF in order to grant licenses to all > +> applicants throughout the world under reasonable terms and > +> conditions that > +> are demonstrably free of any unfair competition; > +> * Organization of MPEG-4 exhibitions and tutorials; > +> * Carrying out interoperability tests. > +> > +> Since its official establishment, over 100 companies have > +> joined the Forum. > +> > +> > +> MPEG LA, LLC > +> > +> MPEG LA* successfully pioneered one-stop technology standards > +> licensing, > +> starting with a portfolio of essential patents for the > +> international digital > +> video compression standard known as MPEG-2, which it began > +> licensing in > +> 1997. One-stop technology standards licensing enables widespread > +> technological implementation, interoperability and use of > fundamental > +> broad-based technologies covered by many patents owned by > +> many different > +> patent holders. MPEG LA* provides users with fair, reasonable, > +> nondiscriminatory access to these essential patents on a > +> worldwide basis > +> under a single license. The MPEG-2 Patent Portfolio > License now has > +> approximately 350 licensees and includes almost 400 MPEG-2 > +> essential patents > +> owned by 19 patent holders. As the legal and business > +> template for one-stop > +> technology standards licensing, MPEG LA* also provides an > +> innovative way to > +> achieve fair, reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to patent > +> rights for > +> other technology standards - the high-speed transfer digital > +> interconnect > +> standard known as IEEE 1394 and the terrestrial digital > +> television standard > +> used in Europe and Asia known as DVB-T. In addition, MPEG > +> LA? has been > +> asked to facilitate the development of joint licenses for > +> MPEG-4 and other > +> emerging technologies. The company is based in Denver, CO > +> and has offices > +> in Chevy Chase, MD (Washington DC metropolitan area), the > greater San > +> Francisco area and London, England. For more information, > +> please refer to > +> , and > +> . > +> > +> _______________________________________________ > +> News mailing list > +> News@lists.m4if.org > +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/news > +> > +_______________________________________________ > +Technotes mailing list > +Technotes@lists.m4if.org > +http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > + > + > > From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Thu Nov 15 12:22:38 2001 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:21 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de Thu Nov 15 09:59:30 2001 From: Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de (Klaus Diepold) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:21 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times In-Reply-To: <002c01c16daa$a0ae9b30$3b436a20@rd.francetelecom.fr> Message-ID: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE TimesOlivier, that's all very true. However, as we have already experienced during the MPEG standardisation work, there are sometimes arguments that lie outside the technical spectrum. Those "marketing" arguments are sometimes hard to understand or overcome. In essence, there maybe uses of the MPEG-4 technology that neither you nor I have anticipated in the first place. Klaus -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Olivier Avaro Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 8:52 AM To: 'McClenny, John Doc'; 'Rob Koenen'; yh86us@yahoo.com; technotes@lists.m4if.org Cc: 'M4IF news (E-mail)' Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times MPEG-4 is cheap insurance at this point. The IP STB space is a lot less tied to MPEG-2 than the DBS/broadcast space. If MPEG-4 evolves to a 'better' solution for this market, MPEG-2 could go away. MPEG-4 is not meant technically to replace MPEG-2. Defining a standard for STB is much more than just MPEG-2 or MPEG-4. It requires what e.g. DVB did, which is not done for MPEG-4. Considering all the work done to make MPEG-2 STB work, I doubt that it makes sense to switch to an MPEG-4 only solution. If what we are talking is just Video, I also doubt that MPEG-4 Video gain justifies the investment at high bitrates. What makes sense to me is the extension of base MPEG-2 services with MPEG-4 functionnality (streamed audio, video and graphics). This is what MPEG-4 was meant for in this context and technically it is sound. Kind regards, Olivier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011115/6fff5faa/attachment-0001.html From olivier.avaro francetelecom.com Thu Nov 15 08:51:54 2001 From: olivier.avaro francetelecom.com (Olivier Avaro) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:21 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002c01c16daa$a0ae9b30$3b436a20@rd.francetelecom.fr> RE: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times MPEG-4 is cheap insurance at this point. The IP STB space is a lot less tied to MPEG-2 than the DBS/broadcast space. If MPEG-4 evolves to a 'better' solution for this market, MPEG-2 could go away. MPEG-4 is not meant technically to replace MPEG-2. Defining a standard for STB is much more than just MPEG-2 or MPEG-4. It requires what e.g. DVB did, which is not done for MPEG-4. Considering all the work done to make MPEG-2 STB work, I doubt that it makes sense to switch to an MPEG-4 only solution. If what we are talking is just Video, I also doubt that MPEG-4 Video gain justifies the investment at high bitrates. What makes sense to me is the extension of base MPEG-2 services with MPEG-4 functionnality (streamed audio, video and graphics). This is what MPEG-4 was meant for in this context and technically it is sound. Kind regards, Olivier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011115/fe8a8d47/attachment-0001.html From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Thu Nov 15 12:22:38 2001 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:21 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de Thu Nov 15 14:02:24 2001 From: Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de (Klaus Diepold) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:21 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times In-Reply-To: Message-ID: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE TimesOlivier, don't get me wrong, I don't intend to handle backward compatibility. This is not my agenda. I don't even build set-top boxes. I only talked to people who are discussing those issues. The conclusion for use of technology within a STB may be influenced by a number of arguments, some of them are more of a marketing character. Again, this is not my position, but I learn about the existence of those positions, and I thought that I should share that with you. CU Klaus -----Original Message----- From: AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN [mailto:olivier.avaro@rd.francetelecom.com] Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 12:23 PM To: Klaus Diepold; AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH; 'McClenny, John Doc'; 'Rob Koenen'; yh86us@yahoo.com; technotes@lists.m4if.org Cc: 'M4IF news (E-mail)' Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times Dear Klaus, that's all very true. However, as we have already experienced during the MPEG standardisation work, there are sometimes arguments that lie outside the technical spectrum. Those "marketing" arguments are sometimes hard to understand or overcome. In essence, there maybe uses of the MPEG-4 technology that neither you nor I have anticipated in the first place. This is as well very true and I am therefore very interested in learning about these arguments, as well as about the technical aproach. In addition, I have a couple of question. How you will handle backward compatibility with the already deployed STB that are MPEG-2 based ? Kind regards, Olivier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011115/44884e3b/attachment.html From mikael.reichel culinaire.se Thu Nov 15 10:18:55 2001 From: mikael.reichel culinaire.se (Mikael Reichel) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:22 2003 Subject: SV: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times Message-ID: <004901c16ddd$41e03fe0$7300a8c0@Workgroup> RE: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE TimesThis is all quite interesting move for folks like you and me Doc, involving content aggregation and distribution over broadband networks. However, is it realistic to assume MPEG4 can offer comparative quality to MPEG4 in the higher bitrates such as 5-9 Mbit/s? Also I dont think MPEG2 will go away until the TV broadcasts migrate to MPEG4 from MPEG2, and that wont happen for a while for sure. The way we build broadband media head ends here is to simply receive (downlink) and apply another layer over DVB/MPEG2 and shoot it out on the GigE network. So, there is no concatenation or transcoding occuring why the original quality is exactly as broadcated to begin with. We even keep the VBR as is. Hence, in my mind the ideal STB is one that handles both 2 and 4 and does so independently but with overlay (alpha keying) capability. BTW, whereabouts is the "magic" threshold for processor speed running MPEG4 softdecoding at full resolution? rgds/mike reichel NSG AB -----Original Message----- From: McClenny, John Doc To: 'Rob Koenen' ; ; Cc: M4IF news (E-mail) Date: Thursday, November 15, 2023 12:20 AM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times comments at the end > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: YH [mailto:yh86us@yahoo.com] > > > > > * iVAST And Sigma Designs Form Partnership to Offer a Set-Top > > > Box Based On MPEG-4 > > > > Interesting. Will the MPEG-4 be used in DTV and HDTV? I was > > heard that the > > MPEG-4 won't replace MPEG-2? > > > > And indeed it will not. Look at PACE - just launched an MPEG-2 STB > that can also decode MPEG-4. MPEG-2 is for the basic programming, > MPEG-4 for additional/enhanced wervices. MPEG-4 is cheap insurance at this point. The IP STB space is a lot less tied to MPEG-2 than the DBS/broadcast space. If MPEG-4 evolves to a 'better' solution for this market, MPEG-2 could go away. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011115/6df786a1/attachment.html From tlm tlm.cc Thu Nov 15 06:27:52 2001 From: tlm tlm.cc (Tom McMahon) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:22 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times In-Reply-To: <004901c16ddd$41e03fe0$7300a8c0@Workgroup> Message-ID: <000601c16de1$bc818ac0$3d011eac@demografx.com> There are certainly MPEG-4 implementations that are showing "digital cinema" qualities at higher bitrates. And I can assure you that there are software-only decoder implementations making really really good pictures on P4s. Come to Pattaya, the water's fine. -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of Mikael Reichel Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 1:19 AM To: McClenny, John Doc; 'Rob Koenen'; yh86us@yahoo.com; technotes@lists.m4if.org Cc: M4IF news (E-mail) Subject: SV: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times This is all quite interesting move for folks like you and me Doc, involving content aggregation and distribution over broadband networks. However, is it realistic to assume MPEG4 can offer comparative quality to MPEG4 in the higher bitrates such as 5-9 Mbit/s? Also I dont think MPEG2 will go away until the TV broadcasts migrate to MPEG4 from MPEG2, and that wont happen for a while for sure. The way we build broadband media head ends here is to simply receive (downlink) and apply another layer over DVB/MPEG2 and shoot it out on the GigE network. So, there is no concatenation or transcoding occuring why the original quality is exactly as broadcated to begin with. We even keep the VBR as is. Hence, in my mind the ideal STB is one that handles both 2 and 4 and does so independently but with overlay (alpha keying) capability. BTW, whereabouts is the "magic" threshold for processor speed running MPEG4 softdecoding at full resolution? rgds/mike reichel NSG AB -----Original Message----- From: McClenny, John Doc To: 'Rob Koenen' ; ; Cc: M4IF news (E-mail) Date: Thursday, November 15, 2023 12:20 AM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times comments at the end > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: YH [mailto:yh86us@yahoo.com] > > > > > * iVAST And Sigma Designs Form Partnership to Offer a Set-Top > > > Box Based On MPEG-4 > > > > Interesting. Will the MPEG-4 be used in DTV and HDTV? I was > > heard that the > > MPEG-4 won't replace MPEG-2? > > > > And indeed it will not. Look at PACE - just launched an MPEG-2 STB > that can also decode MPEG-4. MPEG-2 is for the basic programming, > MPEG-4 for additional/enhanced wervices. MPEG-4 is cheap insurance at this point. The IP STB space is a lot less tied to MPEG-2 than the DBS/broadcast space. If MPEG-4 evolves to a 'better' solution for this market, MPEG-2 could go away. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011115/d0e36f20/attachment.html From rkoenen intertrust.com Thu Nov 15 07:08:25 2001 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:22 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing Addi tional Visual Profiles Message-ID: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04BD9D53@exchange.epr.com> That is sometimes true for CORRIGENDA but not usually for AMENDMENTS Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Klaus Diepold [mailto:Klaus.Diepold@dynapel.de] > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 0:49 > To: Manish Singhal; Rob Koenen > Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing > Additional Visual Profiles > > > Manish, > > I am not 100% certain, but when I checked last week the prices for the > standards, the ammendments where quoted with $ 0.00. I hope > that is actually > true. > > Klaus > > +-----Original Message----- > +From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > +[mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Manish Singhal > +Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 5:27 AM > +To: Rob Koenen > +Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org > +Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing > +Additional Visual Profiles > + > + > + > +Rob > + > +Couple of questions: > +- Suppose one buys any particular version of the standard, let us say > +MPEG-4 Visual Version 2. Then it is upgraded to include FGS etc, then > +one has to again pay ~250 CHF to get that extension ? > Shouldn't there > +be an upgrade only pricing ? > + > +- Does the following announcement mean that the standard as > well as the > +conformance bitstreams are available to be purchased ? > + > +Rgds > +Manish Singhal > +Manager, Video & Imaging > +Ittiam Systems > +Bangalore, India. > + > +> -----Original Message----- > +> From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] > +> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 5:44 AM > +> To: M4IF news (E-mail); M4IF Patent WGs (E-mail); Open DTV > (E-mail); > +> MPEG General (E-mail) > +> Cc: Larry Horn (E-mail); Kenneth Rubenstein (E-mail) > +> Subject: [M4IF News] Press Release Licensing Additional > +> Visual Profiles > +> > +> > +> People, > +> > +> The following release marks the start of a process that will > +> enable joint licensing of essential patents in 3 more MPEG-4 > +> Visual Profiles: > +> * Simple Scalable > +> * Advanced Simple > +> * Fine Granular Scalability (FGS) > +> > +> This is in addition to the following Profiles, for which > licensing is > +> slated to start in 2 months: > +> * Simple > +> * Core > +> > +> - Advanced Simple, a superset of Simple, has the latest coding > +> effiency tools in MPEG-4, and supports rectangular video objects. > +> - Simple Scalable and FGS are scalable extensions of Simple > +> (Simple is the base layer). > +> FGS can also be used with Advanced Simple as a base layer. > +> - Core is a superset of Simple, adding B frames ('B-VOPs') and > +> arbitrary-shape objects. > +> > +> This is an important milestone towards further deployment of MPEG-4 > +> technology. > +> > +> Kind Regards, > +> > +> > +> Rob Koenen (President M4IF) > +> (I apologize for duplicate mails through multiiple reflectors) > +> > +> > +> -------------------------------------------------------------- > +> -------------- > +> - > +> For Immediate Release > +> > +> CONTACT: > +> Lawrence Horn, MPEG LA, LLC > +> 301.986.6660 > +> 301.986.8575 Fax > +> lhorn@mpegla.com > +> > +> > +> > +> MPEG LA? Announces M4IF Plan for Joint Licensing of Essential > +> MPEG-4 Patents > +> > +> (Denver, Colorado, US-14 November 2001) - The MPEG-4 Industry > +> Forum (M4IF) > +> has recommended that MPEG LA, LLC make the following > +> worldwide announcement: > +> > +> In furtherance of its plan aimed at providing fair, reasonable, > +> nondiscriminatory worldwide access under one license to > +> patents that are > +> essential for implementing the international MPEG-4 Visual > +> Standard, the > +> MPEG-4 Industry Forum (M4IF) has recommended that MPEG LA, > +> LLC, in its role > +> as Evaluation Administrator, call for the submission of patents for > +> evaluation of their essentiality to additional MPEG-4 > Visual Standard > +> profiles, specifically Simple Scalable, Advanced Simple, and Fine > +> Granularity Scalable. > +> > +> The Simple Scalable profile is generally described in ISO/IEC > +> 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and 9-2 (pages 322 and > +> 324). The > +> Advanced Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable profiles are > generally > +> described in ISO/IEC 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables AMD2-13 and > +> AMD2-14. These > +> latter tables can be found in the ISO document N3904, also > +> styled "ISO/IEC > +> 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" (pages 32-33). > +> Following is a summary of the approved plan: > +> > +> 1. Objective > +> > +> To establish a portfolio of essential worldwide patents that > +> are necessary > +> for implementation of the MPEG-4 Visual (Simple Scalable, > +> Advanced Simple, > +> and Fine Grain Scalability) standard in order to provide all > +> MPEG-4 Visual > +> users with fair, reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to this > +> technology > +> under one license. > +> > +> 2. Licensed patents > +> > +> Essential patents will consist of those that are necessary > +> for the Simple > +> Scalable (ISO/IEC 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and > +> 9-2 [pages 322 > +> and 324]), Advanced Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable (ISO/IEC > +> 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables AMD2-13 and AMD2-14, which can > +> be found in the > +> ISO document N3904, also styled "ISO/IEC 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" > +> [pages 32-33]) > +> profiles of the MPEG-4 Visual Standard. > +> > +> 3. Organization > +> > +> The joint patent portfolio license may require at least three > +> functions: > +> > +> First, an Administrative Committee consisting of > +> representatives of the > +> essential patent owners will meet to consider licensing terms > +> and conditions > +> and monitor certain activities of a Licensing Administrator. > +> > +> Second, the Licensing Administrator, who is granted non-exclusive > +> sublicensing rights from patent owners under licensed > +> patents, actively > +> promotes the licensing program and distributes collected > +> royalties to the > +> patent owners. The Licensing Administrator will be chosen by > +> the initial > +> group of patent holders comprising the Administrative Committee. > +> > +> Third, an Evaluator who is a neutral, third party patent > expert will > +> evaluate patents for essentiality to the Simple Scalable (ISO/IEC > +> 14496-2:1999/AMD.1:2000(E) Tables 9-1 and 9-2 [pages 322 and > +> 324]), Advanced > +> Simple and Fine Granularity Scalable (ISO/IEC > +> 14496-2:2001/AMD.2(E) Tables > +> AMD2-13 and AMD2-14, which can be found in the ISO document > +> N3904, also > +> styled "ISO/IEC 14496-1:2001/FDAM2" [pages 32-33]) profiles > +> of the MPEG-4 > +> Visual Standard. Any party that believes it has essential > patents is > +> invited to submit them for evaluation and inclusion. For > each patent > +> submitted, an evaluation fee of US $8,500.00 will be paid to > +> MPEG LA, LLC > +> (as below) to cover costs of the patent expert's evaluation. > +> > +> Members of the Administrative Committee will be determined by > +> the results of > +> the patent essentiality evaluation. > +> > +> 4. Licensing details > +> > +> To be determined by the Administrative Committee consisting of > +> representatives of the essential patent owners. > +> 5. Extension of the scope of the licensed patents > +> > +> On M4IF's recommendation and request, MPEG LA? earlier > called for the > +> submission of patents for an evaluation of their > essentiality to the > +> normative part of the Simple and Core profiles of the MPEG-4 > +> Visual Standard > +> by an independent patent expert, and is currently > +> facilitating the efforts > +> of essential patent owners to develop a joint license > providing fair, > +> reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to their essential > intellectual > +> property. > +> > +> 6. Schedule (Initial Plan) > +> > +> Initial patent submissions: by March 1, 2024 (although > +> patent submissions > +> may continue to be submitted after that date, owners of > +> essential patents in > +> the initial group of patents submitted by the March 1 date > +> will form the > +> initial group of Licensors and Administrative Committee that > +> will select a > +> Licensing Administrator and determine the terms of license). > +> > +> Evaluation: March - June 2002 > +> > +> Upon the above consensus, M4IF recommended that MPEG LA? make > +> this worldwide > +> announcement. > +> > +> Accordingly, MPEG LA? hereby announces that any company which > +> believes it > +> has patents that are essential to the Simple Scalable, > +> Advanced Simple and > +> Fine Granularity Scalable profiles of the MPEG-4 Visual > Standard (as > +> described above) and wishes to join the patent pool upon successful > +> evaluation is invited to submit such patents to the Evaluator > +> (identified > +> below) by March 1, 2002, together with a statement confirming > +> its agreement > +> with the objectives and intention to abide by terms and > +> procedures governing > +> the patent submission process. Terms and procedures > governing patent > +> submissions may be obtained from Lawrence A. Horn, Vice > +> President, Licensing > +> and Business Development, MPEG LA, LLC (lhorn@mpegla.com, phone > +> 1-301-986-6660, fax 1-301-986-8575). > +> > +> Evaluator: > +> > +> Dr. Kenneth Rubenstein > +> PROSKAUER ROSE LLP > +> 1585 Broadway > +> New York, NY10036-8299 > +> Tel. 212-969-3000 > +> Fax. 212-969-2900 > +> krubenstein@proskauer.com > +> > +> # # # > +> > +> > +> > +> > +> > +> Overview of the MPEG-4 Standard > +> > +> MPEG-4 is an ISO/IEC multi-media representation standard > +> developed by its > +> Moving Picture Experts Group (MPEG). MPEG also developed > +> MPEG-1, which > +> makes possible interactive video on CD-ROM and is present on > +> virtually every > +> personal computer, and MPEG-2, the core compression > +> technology underlying > +> the efficient transmission, storage and display of digitized > +> moving images > +> and sound tracks on which high definition television (HDTV), > +> Digital Video > +> Broadcasting (DVB), direct broadcast by satellite (DBS), > digital cable > +> television systems, multichannel-multipoint distribution > +> services (MMDS), > +> personal computer video, digital versatile discs (DVD), > +> interactive media > +> and other forms of digital video delivery, storage, transport > +> and display > +> are based. > +> > +> MPEG-4 is the result of yet another international effort > +> involving hundreds > +> of researchers and engineers from all over the world. > Building on the > +> successes of MPEG's earlier standards, MPEG-4 enables > +> integration of the > +> production, distribution and content access features of > +> digital television, > +> interactive graphics applications and interactive multimedia > +> across internet > +> protocol, wireless, low bitrate, broadcast, satellite, cable > +> and mobile > +> environments. With MPEG-4, all content elements can be > maintained as > +> discrete objects enabling richer interactivity and use across > +> many different > +> devices More information about MPEG-4 can be found at > +> MPEG's home page > +> and at the home page of > the MPEG-4 > +> Industry Forum . > +> > +> MPEG-4 Industry Forum (M4IF) > +> > +> While M4IF recommended that MPEG LA? take the steps as > +> described in this > +> release, all steps described herein are carried out outside and > +> independently of M4IF. M4IF encourages all and any steps > +> that will lead to > +> easy access to reasonable and non-discriminatory licenses > for patents > +> essential to the MPEG-4 Standard. > +> > +> The M4IF was organized on May 29, 2024 as a not-for-profit > +> corporation "To > +> further the adoption and widespread use of the MPEG-4 Standard, by > +> establishing MPEG-4 as an accepted standard among application > +> developers, > +> service providers, content creators and end users." Based in > +> Switzerland, > +> M4IF is open to all parties that support this goal and pay > the yearly > +> membership fee of (US) $3,000. M4IF carries on activities > outside of > +> ISO/IEC's scope, such as: > +> > +> * Promoting the MPEG-4 Standard, and serving as a single point of > +> information on MPEG-4 technology, products and services; > +> * Initiating discussions leading to the potential establishment of > +> patent portfolios outside of M4IF in order to grant licenses to all > +> applicants throughout the world under reasonable terms and > +> conditions that > +> are demonstrably free of any unfair competition; > +> * Organization of MPEG-4 exhibitions and tutorials; > +> * Carrying out interoperability tests. > +> > +> Since its official establishment, over 100 companies have > +> joined the Forum. > +> > +> > +> MPEG LA, LLC > +> > +> MPEG LA* successfully pioneered one-stop technology standards > +> licensing, > +> starting with a portfolio of essential patents for the > +> international digital > +> video compression standard known as MPEG-2, which it began > +> licensing in > +> 1997. One-stop technology standards licensing enables widespread > +> technological implementation, interoperability and use of > fundamental > +> broad-based technologies covered by many patents owned by > +> many different > +> patent holders. MPEG LA* provides users with fair, reasonable, > +> nondiscriminatory access to these essential patents on a > +> worldwide basis > +> under a single license. The MPEG-2 Patent Portfolio > License now has > +> approximately 350 licensees and includes almost 400 MPEG-2 > +> essential patents > +> owned by 19 patent holders. As the legal and business > +> template for one-stop > +> technology standards licensing, MPEG LA* also provides an > +> innovative way to > +> achieve fair, reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to patent > +> rights for > +> other technology standards - the high-speed transfer digital > +> interconnect > +> standard known as IEEE 1394 and the terrestrial digital > +> television standard > +> used in Europe and Asia known as DVB-T. In addition, MPEG > +> LA? has been > +> asked to facilitate the development of joint licenses for > +> MPEG-4 and other > +> emerging technologies. The company is based in Denver, CO > +> and has offices > +> in Chevy Chase, MD (Washington DC metropolitan area), the > greater San > +> Francisco area and London, England. For more information, > +> please refer to > +> , and > +> . > +> > +> _______________________________________________ > +> News mailing list > +> News@lists.m4if.org > +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/news > +> > +_______________________________________________ > +Technotes mailing list > +Technotes@lists.m4if.org > +http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > + > + > From Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de Thu Nov 15 17:59:34 2001 From: Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de (Klaus Diepold) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:22 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times In-Reply-To: Message-ID: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE TimesOlivier, friends and comrades, I didn't talk about MPEG-4 only STB. I anticipate that there will be STB that include MPEG-2 next MPEG-4 features. Which of the two standards will be used more ? I don't know, you may know better. Klaus -----Original Message----- From: AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN [mailto:olivier.avaro@rd.francetelecom.com] Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 4:16 PM To: Klaus Diepold; 'McClenny, John Doc'; 'Rob Koenen'; yh86us@yahoo.com; technotes@lists.m4if.org Cc: 'M4IF news (E-mail)' Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times Dear Klaus, all, don't get me wrong, I don't intend to handle backward compatibility. This is not my agenda. I don't even build set-top boxes. I only talked to people who are discussing those issues. The conclusion for use of technology within a STB may be influenced by a number of arguments, some of them are more of a marketing character. Again, this is not my position, but I learn about the existence of those positions, and I thought that I should share that with you. It is interesting to push the idea to its limit. So I am interested to learn what people can win by having MPEG-4 only STB. Video quality ? At high bitrates, I am not sure it is worth it, but I am interested to learn more about this. What else ? It is on the contrary very clear what will be lost : backward compatibility, costs development for production tools, duplication of encoded content or encoding costs, ... It is much more interesting to construct the architecture of the STB backward compatible with MPEG-2 and with MPEG-4 as a new media that goes on top/along with/aside of MPEG-2 content. Kind regards, Olivier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011115/8063429a/attachment.html From Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de Thu Nov 15 18:34:38 2001 From: Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de (Klaus Diepold) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:23 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times In-Reply-To: Message-ID: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE TimesI am with you. That's also my preferred scenario. And I think that it is possible to convey this to the market as a viable path. The discussion about using MPEG-4 in STB shows that MPEG-4 has grown out of the "Very Low Bitrate Video" shoes. All of a sudden the MPEG-2 community is asking if MPEG-4 may turn out to be a challenge in their domain. Isn't that remarkable ? If this dual STB approach turns out to be attractive, I think this could be an interesting field for MPEG-4, next to Internet and Mobile. Cheers Klaus -----Original Message----- From: AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN [mailto:olivier.avaro@rd.francetelecom.com] Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 6:12 PM To: Klaus Diepold; 'McClenny, John Doc'; 'Rob Koenen'; yh86us@yahoo.com; technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times Hi Klaus, all, --- I didn't talk about MPEG-4 only STB. I anticipate that there will be STB that include MPEG-2 next MPEG-4 features. Which of the two standards will be used more ? I don't know, you may know better. --- I don't know. But what I see is that we have now an installed based of MPEG-2 STB. MPEG-4 is now deploying fast on the internet environment for multimedia content such as A/V/Graphics clips at rather low bitrate. The next step is to have these MPEG-4 multimedia enhancements along with / side to / on top of MPEG-2, using MPEG-4 carriage over MPEG-2 Systems specification or using MPEG-4 over IP specification if the STB has an internet access. Kind regards, Olivier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011115/5e3c19f4/attachment.html From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Thu Nov 15 18:11:30 2001 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:23 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Thu Nov 15 16:16:20 2001 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:23 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] MPEG special in EE Times Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From Bill streamingmedia.com Thu Nov 15 10:25:18 2001 From: Bill streamingmedia.com (Bill Bernat) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:23 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Authoring tools vendors Message-ID: <0BC3DFA40E5BD511919800B0D0D0893B3A01CE@MAILSRV> Can anybody tell me some vendors who are working on authoring tools for MPEG-4? I already know the following companies are working authoring in one fashion or another: Phillips, Envivio, iVast, ObjectVision. However, I'm sure there are more. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, -billb From dim psytel-research.co.yu Thu Nov 15 23:36:50 2001 From: dim psytel-research.co.yu (Ivan Dimkovic) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:23 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Authoring tools vendors Message-ID: <3130.217.26.65.246.1005863810.squirrel@webmail.verat.net> Hello Bill, others, We are also working on the MPEG-4 authoring tool. More details could be found at: http://www.psytel-research.co.yu/mat.htm Beta test program will start in Q1 2002 Best Regards, ************************************************* Ivan Dimkovic, Technical Manager PsyTEL Research Multimedia Coding Solutions Belgrade Yugoslavia phone: +381 64 11 40 600 fax: +381 11 32 25 275 email: dim@psytel-research.co.yu www: http://www.psytel-research.co.yu ************************************************* This e-mail may contain confidential information which is legally privileged. The information is solely for the use of the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or other use of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us by return e-mail and delete this message. Thank you. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bernat" To: Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2023 7:25 PM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Authoring tools vendors > Can anybody tell me some vendors who are working on authoring tools for > MPEG-4? > > I already know the following companies are working authoring in one fashion > or another: Phillips, Envivio, iVast, ObjectVision. > > However, I'm sure there are more. Any help would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > -billb > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > From young netntv.co.kr Fri Nov 16 11:14:00 2001 From: young netntv.co.kr (Lim, Young-Kwon) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:23 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Authoring tools vendors References: <0BC3DFA40E5BD511919800B0D0D0893B3A01CE@MAILSRV> Message-ID: <000b01c16e76$8526bfb0$02efebd3@Young> Dear Bill, There are two more in Korea. - netCODEC Inc. - net&tv / ETRI (Electronics and Telecommunications Research Institute) Please let me know if you need any further questions. Sincerely, Young-Kwon LIM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bernat" To: Sent: Friday, November 16, 2023 3:25 AM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Authoring tools vendors > Can anybody tell me some vendors who are working on authoring tools for > MPEG-4? > > I already know the following companies are working authoring in one fashion > or another: Phillips, Envivio, iVast, ObjectVision. > > However, I'm sure there are more. Any help would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > -billb > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From gautam noida.hcltech.com Mon Nov 19 11:49:02 2001 From: gautam noida.hcltech.com (Gautam Kumar) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:23 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Few Queries on streaming video profile!!! Message-ID: Dear All, Thanks to Mr. Rob and Mr. Peter Haighton for their reply. I am wondering at the encoder end for Simple Profile level 1 the Maximum Video Packet length is given as 2048 bits in ISO/IEC 14496?2:1999/FDAM 1:2000(E), page 497, table N-1. Is that the maximum size or we can add one more Macroblock data or some more bits in that at the Encoding Side? In ISO reference code for decoder, it adds one more macroblock after it exceeds the Video Packet lengtht. But there the Video Packet lengh is well below 2048 bits. Awaiting reply Warm Rgds Gautam -----Original Message----- From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2023 7:32 AM To: Gautam Kumar; technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Few Queries on streaming video profile!!! Gautam, > 1) level 0 specification is in amd 3 or amd 4, as i can infer from > http://mpeg.telecomitalialab.com/workplan.htm > that amd 4 is not in the list. That is because amendments got renumbered as new versions are issued. Difficult to follow at times, but we need to live with it. The numbers in the workplan are now relative to the 2001 edition of MPEG-4 Visual. You are now looking at AMD2 (Simple@L0) and AMD3 (Simple Scalable @ L0) > 2) does level 0 puts restriction on the size of frame to be > multiple of 16 ? > (ofcourse size should not be more that QCIF) yes. Length <= 176 Height <= 144 It only works in multiples of full macroblocks. MPEG-4 Simple Profile Level 0 has the following restrictions when compared to Level 1: a) The maximum frame rate shall be 15 frames per second; b) The maximum f_code shall be 1; c) The intra_dc_vlc_threshold shall be 0; d) The maximum horizontal luminance pixel resolution shall be 176 pels/line; e) The maximum vertical luminance pixel resolution shall be 144 pels/VOP; f) If AC prediction is used, the following restriction applies : QP value shall not be changed within a VOP (or within a video packet if video packets are used in a VOP). If AC prediction is not used, there are no restrictions to changing QP value. > 3) Regarding motion estimation and compensation, does it support: > a) mb_type = 2 ; that is does it support different motion vectors > for all 4 luminance blocks within the same macroblock, Yes > b) half pel motion compensation and yes > c) unrestricted motion compensation. yes Best, Rob From axel.binder philips.com Mon Nov 19 01:54:21 2001 From: axel.binder philips.com (axel.binder@philips.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:23 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] brightness change for sprites Message-ID: Hi together, I have a question about the brightness_change_factor in 14496-2 Amd.1 in chapter 7.8.6. In the spec this factor is defined for the Y channel for static sprite and GMC sprite decoding, right? However in the reference code (14496-5 from ISO) I couldn't find it's usage during decoding neither in the Microsoft nor in the MoMuSys implementation. It is encoded to the stream and decoded from the bitstream but during sample reconstruction it is ignored. Now my question: Do I need to take care of this factor for a compliant sprite decoder implementation or can it be ignored? Another question, is there anybody out there who sets this factor (to non trivial values == 1) during encoding? regards axel binder ======================================================= Axel Binder Philips Starnberg (SP3D) Development Manager Software Petersbrunner Str. 17 D-82319 Starnberg, Germany phone: +49 8151 270 108 fax: +49 8151 270 200 mobile: +49 172 92 18 623 e-mail: axel.binder@philips.com ======================================================= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011119/67d85000/attachment.html From yosinori crl.hitachi.co.jp Mon Nov 19 19:13:59 2001 From: yosinori crl.hitachi.co.jp (Yoshinori Suzuki) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:23 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] brightness change for sprites References: Message-ID: <3BF8DB67.370A57D6@crl.hitachi.co.jp> Dear Dr. Binder, axel.binder@philips.com wrote: > > I have a question about the brightness_change_factor in 14496-2 Amd.1 in > chapter 7.8.6. > > In the spec this factor is defined for the Y channel for static sprite and GMC > sprite decoding, right? Sprite (static and low-letency) decoding only supports this factor. > However in the reference code (14496-5 from ISO) I couldn't find it's usage > during decoding neither in the > Microsoft nor in the MoMuSys implementation. It is encoded to the stream and > decoded from the bitstream > but during sample reconstruction it is ignored. > Now my question: Do I need to take care of this factor for a compliant sprite > decoder implementation > or can it be ignored? You need to take care of it for the visual main profile compliant decoder, since sprite supports it. But, you can ignore it for the advanced coding efficiency profile or the advanced simple profile compliant decoder, since GMC does not support it. Best regards, Yoshinori Suzuki Hitachi, Ltd. From Mhaque tvia.com Mon Nov 19 11:52:41 2001 From: Mhaque tvia.com (Munsi Haque) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Stream ID Assignment in MPEG-4 Start-codes and MPEG-2 System Draf t Amendments Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: startIDQ.doc Type: application/msword Size: 39424 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011119/52310b5d/startIDQ.bin From Peter.Haighton m4if.org Mon Nov 19 15:31:53 2001 From: Peter.Haighton m4if.org (Peter Haighton) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Few Queries on streaming video profile!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Gautum, The maximum is indeed 2048 bits. Of course the packet size is only used when dealing with data partitioning. Peter -- Peter Haighton VideoSpheres Inc. 84 Hines Road Kanata, Ontario Canada, K2K 3G3 Tel: (613) 270-9646 x3022 Fax: (613) 271-9442 email: peterh@VideoSpheres.com See http://www.m4if.org for the latest on MPEG-4 -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Gautam Kumar Sent: Monday, November 19, 2023 1:19 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Few Queries on streaming video profile!!! Dear All, Thanks to Mr. Rob and Mr. Peter Haighton for their reply. I am wondering at the encoder end for Simple Profile level 1 the Maximum Video Packet length is given as 2048 bits in ISO/IEC 14496?2:1999/FDAM 1:2000(E), page 497, table N-1. Is that the maximum size or we can add one more Macroblock data or some more bits in that at the Encoding Side? In ISO reference code for decoder, it adds one more macroblock after it exceeds the Video Packet lengtht. But there the Video Packet lengh is well below 2048 bits. Awaiting reply Warm Rgds Gautam -----Original Message----- From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2023 7:32 AM To: Gautam Kumar; technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Few Queries on streaming video profile!!! Gautam, > 1) level 0 specification is in amd 3 or amd 4, as i can infer from > http://mpeg.telecomitalialab.com/workplan.htm > that amd 4 is not in the list. That is because amendments got renumbered as new versions are issued. Difficult to follow at times, but we need to live with it. The numbers in the workplan are now relative to the 2001 edition of MPEG-4 Visual. You are now looking at AMD2 (Simple@L0) and AMD3 (Simple Scalable @ L0) > 2) does level 0 puts restriction on the size of frame to be > multiple of 16 ? > (ofcourse size should not be more that QCIF) yes. Length <= 176 Height <= 144 It only works in multiples of full macroblocks. MPEG-4 Simple Profile Level 0 has the following restrictions when compared to Level 1: a) The maximum frame rate shall be 15 frames per second; b) The maximum f_code shall be 1; c) The intra_dc_vlc_threshold shall be 0; d) The maximum horizontal luminance pixel resolution shall be 176 pels/line; e) The maximum vertical luminance pixel resolution shall be 144 pels/VOP; f) If AC prediction is used, the following restriction applies : QP value shall not be changed within a VOP (or within a video packet if video packets are used in a VOP). If AC prediction is not used, there are no restrictions to changing QP value. > 3) Regarding motion estimation and compensation, does it support: > a) mb_type = 2 ; that is does it support different motion vectors > for all 4 luminance blocks within the same macroblock, Yes > b) half pel motion compensation and yes > c) unrestricted motion compensation. yes Best, Rob _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From ramki emuzed.com Tue Nov 20 10:04:26 2001 From: ramki emuzed.com (Ramkishor Korada) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Few Queries on streaming video profile!!! References: Message-ID: <00f501c1717c$a52bd080$1b0aa8c0@blr.emuzed.com> Hi, The decoder can use the max. packet size to detect errors i.e., when bit-corruption happens decoder may not detect packet end and may start parsing next packet also. In this case, decoder can come of out parsing once it recognises that it has parsed more than 2048 bits. The max packet size can be used to detect errors by decoder. -ramkishor Architect - Video Multimedia Technologies Division Emuzed India Bangalore www.emuzed.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Haighton" To: "Gautam Kumar" ; Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2023 2:01 AM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Few Queries on streaming video profile!!! > Hello Gautum, > > The maximum is indeed 2048 bits. > > Of course the packet size is only used when dealing with data > partitioning. > > Peter > -- > Peter Haighton > VideoSpheres Inc. > 84 Hines Road > Kanata, Ontario > Canada, K2K 3G3 > Tel: (613) 270-9646 x3022 > Fax: (613) 271-9442 > email: peterh@VideoSpheres.com > > See http://www.m4if.org for the latest on MPEG-4 > > -----Original Message----- > From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Gautam Kumar > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2023 1:19 AM > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Few Queries on streaming video profile!!! > > > Dear All, > Thanks to Mr. Rob and Mr. Peter Haighton for their reply. > I am wondering at the encoder end for Simple Profile level 1 the Maximum > Video Packet length is given as 2048 bits > in ISO/IEC 14496?2:1999/FDAM 1:2000(E), page 497, table N-1. > > Is that the maximum size or we can add one more Macroblock data or > some more bits in that at the Encoding Side? > > In ISO reference code for decoder, it adds one more macroblock after it > exceeds the Video Packet lengtht. But there the Video Packet lengh is well > below 2048 bits. > Awaiting reply > Warm Rgds > Gautam > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] > Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2023 7:32 AM > To: Gautam Kumar; technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Few Queries on streaming video profile!!! > > > Gautam, > > > > 1) level 0 specification is in amd 3 or amd 4, as i can infer from > > http://mpeg.telecomitalialab.com/workplan.htm > > that amd 4 is not in the list. > > That is because amendments got renumbered as new versions are issued. > Difficult to follow at times, but we need to live with it. > The numbers in the workplan are now relative to the 2001 edition > of MPEG-4 Visual. You are now looking at AMD2 (Simple@L0) and > AMD3 (Simple Scalable @ L0) > > > 2) does level 0 puts restriction on the size of frame to be > > multiple of 16 ? > > (ofcourse size should not be more that QCIF) > > yes. > > Length <= 176 > Height <= 144 > It only works in multiples of full macroblocks. > > MPEG-4 Simple Profile Level 0 has the following restrictions > when compared to Level 1: > > a) The maximum frame rate shall be 15 frames per second; > b) The maximum f_code shall be 1; > c) The intra_dc_vlc_threshold shall be 0; > d) The maximum horizontal luminance pixel resolution shall be 176 > pels/line; > e) The maximum vertical luminance pixel resolution shall > be 144 pels/VOP; > f) If AC prediction is used, the following restriction > applies : QP value > shall not be changed within a VOP (or within a video packet if video > packets are used in a VOP). If AC prediction is not used, there are no > restrictions to changing QP value. > > > 3) Regarding motion estimation and compensation, does it support: > > a) mb_type = 2 ; that is does it support different motion vectors > > for all 4 luminance blocks within the same macroblock, > > Yes > > > b) half pel motion compensation and > > yes > > > c) unrestricted motion compensation. > > yes > > Best, > Rob > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > From t.keutgen deltatec.be Tue Nov 20 14:34:31 2001 From: t.keutgen deltatec.be (Thierry Keutgen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Hint track for MPEG-2 TS Message-ID: <76080BDC9DDD694196D842CFDFA493DF0D9A01@w2k-svr-4.office.deltatec.net> Hi all, I'm currently working on the System part of MPEG-4 applied to Broadcast Television within an IST research project. ISO/IEC 14496-1 2001 13.1.3.5 states that specific hint tracks should be defined for each Transmux used and that "the designer of the system using that TransMux, or the body that owns and defines the TransMux, would define these tracks". Can anybody tell me if (and how) ISO/IEC 13818 formerly defines a hint track for transport over MPEG-2 TS ? Thanks in advance. Best regards, Thierry Keutgen Senior Application Engineer DELTATEC www.deltatec.be From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Tue Nov 20 16:34:48 2001 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Hint track for MPEG-2 TS Message-ID: Hi Thierry, > Can anybody tell me if (and how) ISO/IEC 13818 formerly defines a hint > track for transport over MPEG-2 TS ? There is an on-going activity on this topic in Systems. Please join the party. Discussed as well is RTP hint track. cu, O. From lcheng62 yahoo.com Wed Nov 21 14:11:59 2001 From: lcheng62 yahoo.com (Liang Cheng) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question on reference code Message-ID: <20011121221159.41216.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, everyone: I just got the 14496-5. Could anyone tell me what the relatiohship between IM1(system part) and the Microsoft work on natural video? How can I test the interoperability of them? IM1 is supposed to cover natural coding part(syntax at least), right? What I want to do is simply display a compressed video, which can be decoded by Microsoft decoder, on the IM1 decoder. Your help will be highly appreciated. thank you. Liang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 From Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de Thu Nov 22 17:27:05 2001 From: Klaus.Diepold dynapel.de (Klaus Diepold) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] brightness change for sprites In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Friends and comrades, actually we have checked the MoMuSys Reference Code and found that the brightness_change_factor parameter is decoded from an input bit stream but not used in the decoding process. I guess that was not the original intention, n'est pas ? Cheers Klaus -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of axel.binder@philips.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2023 10:54 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] brightness change for sprites Hi together, I have a question about the brightness_change_factor in 14496-2 Amd.1 in chapter 7.8.6. In the spec this factor is defined for the Y channel for static sprite and GMC sprite decoding, right? However in the reference code (14496-5 from ISO) I couldn't find it's usage during decoding neither in the Microsoft nor in the MoMuSys implementation. It is encoded to the stream and decoded from the bitstream but during sample reconstruction it is ignored. Now my question: Do I need to take care of this factor for a compliant sprite decoder implementation or can it be ignored? Another question, is there anybody out there who sets this factor (to non trivial values == 1) during encoding? regards axel binder ======================================================= Axel Binder Philips Starnberg (SP3D) Development Manager Software Petersbrunner Str. 17 D-82319 Starnberg, Germany phone: +49 8151 270 108 fax: +49 8151 270 200 mobile: +49 172 92 18 623 e-mail: axel.binder@philips.com ======================================================= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011122/81e1692a/attachment.html From zvil csi.com Fri Nov 23 00:06:06 2001 From: zvil csi.com (Zvi Lifshitz) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question on reference code In-Reply-To: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04BD9ECA@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: <005e01c173a1$e2ed0e80$26000a8c@zvil> Liang, IM1 and the MS video codec are two different pieces of software that implement different parts of the MPEG-4 standard. IM1 is the Systems reference software while the MS codec is the Visual reference software. With some effort, they can be integrated as complementary components of a single application. They are not interoperable, just like video and audio codecs are not interoperable. And then, wrong, IM1 is *not* supposed to cover the natural coding part, while MS codec is. Hope this clarifies the situation a bit. z soon the whole world will STREAM ================================================================== Zvi Lifshitz Phone +972(2)679-4788 zvil@optibase.com Fax +972(2)679-4789 Optibase Ltd. GSM: +972(54)461-787 http://www.optibase.com US voice mail/fax +1(206) 888-4149 ================================================================== Come see us at: DSL.con 2001, Conference & Exhibition, M.O.C Center, Munich Germany, Booth # 205, November 27- 29, 2001 > -----Original Message----- > From: Liang Cheng [mailto:lcheng62@yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2023 14:12 > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question on reference code > > > Hello, everyone: > > I just got the 14496-5. Could anyone tell me what the > relatiohship between IM1(system part) and the > Microsoft work on natural video? How can I test the > interoperability of them? IM1 is supposed to cover > natural coding part(syntax at least), right? > > What I want to do is simply display a compressed > video, which can be decoded by Microsoft decoder, on > the IM1 decoder. > > Your help will be highly appreciated. thank you. > > Liang > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From ben interframemedia.com Sun Nov 25 14:20:52 2001 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Why no MPEG-5, 6, 8, etcetera Message-ID: Folks, Not a deep question, I'd guess, but does anyone have any insight into how MPEG version numbers are chosen. MPEG-1 and -2 make sense, and I know -3 was going to be the HD spec, which was instead rolled back into -2. And then we have -4. But why the big jumps then to -7 and -21? Were there a bunch of proposals out there that didn't go anywhere, or are still in progress? Was room left for additional intermediate versions (ala the US Bankruptcy code, which originally only had odd numbered chapters)? Ben Waggoner Interframe Media Digital Video Compression Consulting, Training, and Encoding From rkoenen intertrust.com Sun Nov 25 14:30:41 2001 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Why no MPEG-5, 6, 8, etcetera Message-ID: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04BD9F0F@exchange.epr.com> see http://mpeg.telecomitalialab.com/documents/koenen/mp4ieee.htm notably the inset http://mpeg.telecomitalialab.com/documents/koenen/mpegsb2.htm MPEG-21 is so different from the other MPEG's again that if deserved a completely different number - compare e.g. to JPEG 2000. Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Waggoner [mailto:ben@interframemedia.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2023 14:21 > To: MPEG4 technical notes (E-mail) > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Why no MPEG-5, 6, 8, etcetera > > > Folks, > > Not a deep question, I'd guess, but does anyone have any > insight into > how MPEG version numbers are chosen. MPEG-1 and -2 make > sense, and I know > -3 was going to be the HD spec, which was instead rolled back > into -2. And > then we have -4. But why the big jumps then to -7 and -21? > Were there a > bunch of proposals out there that didn't go anywhere, or are still in > progress? Was room left for additional intermediate versions > (ala the US > Bankruptcy code, which originally only had odd numbered chapters)? > > Ben Waggoner > Interframe Media > Digital Video Compression Consulting, Training, and Encoding > > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From lcheng61 hotmail.com Mon Nov 26 07:42:00 2001 From: lcheng61 hotmail.com (Liang Cheng) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question on reference code Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011126/770dd6ad/attachment.html From ben interframemedia.com Sun Nov 25 17:33:13 2001 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Is AAC used in MPEG-2 applications today Message-ID: Folks, Not strictly a MPEG-4 question, but I figure y'all certainly know the answer. I know that AAC was originally designed for use with MPEG-2. However, are there any real-world applications where it is used with MPEG-2 today? I know of its uses in secure audio formats and such, and of course in MPEG-4. Ben Waggoner Interframe Media Digital Video Compression Consulting, Training, and Encoding From rkoenen intertrust.com Sun Nov 25 22:07:08 2001 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question on reference code Message-ID: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04EB8579@exchange.epr.com> > It is amazing to receive the answer from the author of MPEG-1 system software. Zvi is amazing indeed, but mostly in his role in MPEG-4. > What I concern most is the interoperability, which means we > want our project interoperable to most of other related works. > But now, it seems that the incorperation of natural video codec > and system codec doesn't necessarily need us to consider > the interoperability to othor works, right? I do not understand this question. Le me still try to answer :-) Implementing Visual and Systems according to the standard will Guarantee interoperability with others that have done the same, provided that you use the same Profiles. (Of course most systems would use Audio as well.) Best, Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011125/cb7a6e7a/attachment.html From zvil csi.com Mon Nov 26 09:00:33 2001 From: zvil csi.com (Zvi Lifshitz) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question on reference code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003101c17648$0b8d7f70$26000a8c@zvil> Sorry I didn’t understand the question. Regards, z soon the whole world will STREAM ================================================================== Zvi Lifshitz Phone +972(2)679-4788 zvil@optibase.com Fax +972(2)679-4789 Optibase Ltd. GSM: +972(54)461-787 (+972-LI-IM1-RTP) http://www.optibase.com US voice mail/fax +1(206) 888-4149 ================================================================== Come see us at: DSL.con 2001, Conference & Exhibition, M.O.C Center, Munich Germany, Booth # 205, November 27- 29, 2001 -----Original Message----- From: lcheng61@hotmail.com [mailto:lcheng61@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2023 1:42 AM To: zvil@csi.com Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] question on reference code Hi, Zvi: It is amazing to receive the answer from the author of MPEG-1 system software. We are supposed to implement the natural video codec and incorperate it into the system codec untill we get the SL-packets for the convenience of transmission. It seems 14496-1 has considered this and the OCI(object content information) is incorperated in the syntax of system layer. What I concern most is the interoperability, which means we want our project interoperable to most of other related works. But now, it seems that the incorperation of natural video codec and system codec doesn't necessarily need us to consider the interoperability to othor works, right? Look forward to your reply! Best Regards, Liang Cheng >From: "Zvi Lifshitz" >To: >CC: , >Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] question on reference code >Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2023 00:06:06 +0200 > >Liang, > >IM1 and the MS video codec are two different pieces of software that >implement different parts of the MPEG-4 standard. IM1 is the Systems >reference software while the MS codec is the Visual reference software. With >some effort, they can be integrated as complementary components of a single >application. They are not interoperable, just like video and audio codecs >are not interoperable. And then, wrong, IM1 is *not* supposed to cover the >natural coding part, while MS codec is. > >Hope this clarifies the situation a bit. > >z >soon the whole world will STREAM >================================================================== >Zvi Lifshitz Phone +972(2)679-4788 >zvil@optibase.com Fax +972(2)679-4789 >Optibase Ltd. GSM: +972(54)461-787 >http://www.optibase.com US voice mail/fax +1(206) 888-4149 >================================================================== >Come see us at: >DSL.con 2001, Conference & Exhibition, M.O.C Center, Munich Germany, Booth # >205, November 27- 29, 2001 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Liang Cheng [mailto:lcheng62@yahoo.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2023 14:12 > > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question on reference code > > > > > > Hello, everyone: > > > > I just got the 14496-5. Could anyone tell me what the > > relatiohship between IM1(system part) and the > > Microsoft work on natural video? How can I test the > > interoperability of them? IM1 is supposed to cover > > natural coding part(syntax at least), right? > > > > What I want to do is simply display a compressed > > video, which can be decoded by Microsoft decoder, on > > the IM1 decoder. > > > > Your help will be highly appreciated. thank you. > > > > Liang > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. > > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 > > _______________________________________________ > > Technotes mailing list > > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > > >_______________________________________________ >Technotes mailing list >Technotes@lists.m4if.org >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes _____ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011126/69cea968/attachment.html From gey iis.fhg.de Mon Nov 26 14:32:18 2001 From: gey iis.fhg.de (Stefan Geyersberger) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Is AAC used in MPEG-2 applications today References: Message-ID: <3C024462.CCD589FA@iis.fhg.de> Ben, MPEG-2 AAC is used in the following "real-world applications": 1) The Japanese Association of Radio Industries and Businesses (ARIB) has selected MPEG-2 AAC as the only audio coding scheme for all of Japan's digital broadcast systems, including standard-definition television (SDTV), high-definition television (HDTV), digital radio, and new multimedia services (mono, stereo, up to 5.1 channels) - for more info please have a look at: ISDB-S: http://www.strl.nhk.or.jp/publica/bt/en/pa0005.html ISDB-T: http://www.strl.nhk.or.jp/publica/bt/en/pa0006.html ISDB-C: http://www.strl.nhk.or.jp/publica/bt/en/pa0007.html 2) The Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM) organisation has selected an extended version of MPEG-2 AAC for the Digital Broadcasting on short-, medium-, or longwave (AM). For more info please have a look at: http://www.drm.org 3) The following digital media types support MPEG-2 AAC (besides other coding formats): DataPlay: http://www.dataplay.com SDCard: http://www.sdcard.org 4) The following chip manufacturers have MPEG-2 AAC encoder and/or decoder chips available: - Cirrus (Maverick EP72xx, EP73xx, EP9312) - Crystal (CS49300 Multi-Standard Audio Decoder Family) - Texas Instruments (TMS320C54xx) - Texas Instruments (TMS320C67xx) - Texas Instruments (TMS320DA610) - MEI (MN67736LA) - Micronas (MAS35x9F) - Motorola (DSP56362) - Toshiba (TC9446F, TC9486F/XB) - Zoran (ZR38650) - NEC (?PD77016) - ARM (ARM7/ARM9 core) - Philips (R.E.A.L. core) - 3DSP (core) - ARCtangent?-A4 (core) - SSL/Parthus (core) Best Regards, -- ====================================================================== Stefan Geyersberger Business Manager - Audio & Multimedia ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fraunhofer IIS WEB: http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ Am Weichselgarten 3 direct: +49 (9131) 776 316 91058 Erlangen fax: +49 (9131) 776 399 Germany email: gey@iis.fhg.de ====================================================================== Ben Waggoner wrote: > > Folks, > > Not strictly a MPEG-4 question, but I figure y'all certainly know the > answer. > > I know that AAC was originally designed for use with MPEG-2. However, > are there any real-world applications where it is used with MPEG-2 today? I > know of its uses in secure audio formats and such, and of course in MPEG-4. > > Ben Waggoner > Interframe Media > Digital Video Compression Consulting, Training, and Encoding > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From ben interframemedia.com Tue Nov 27 16:17:02 2001 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Call for MPEG-4 encoders for review Message-ID: Folks, I'm beginning the followup to my codec shootout with MPEG-4 codecs. The original article is here: http://www.dv.com/magazine/2001/1101/waggoner1101.html I'm going to use the same source and methodology so we'll be able to compare the MPEG-4 codecs with each other, and proprietary codecs. Anyone with a video encoder that can make an ISO compliant MPEG-4 file, drop me a line. I'll need product in December to make the review. I won't be looking at audio or live streaming, just on demand video files. Ben Waggoner Interframe Media Digital Video Compression Consulting, Training, and Encoding From sathesandeep yahoo.com Wed Nov 28 00:10:04 2001 From: sathesandeep yahoo.com (Sandeep Sathe) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Simple Scalable - Spatial scalability. Message-ID: <20011128081004.67621.qmail@web12906.mail.yahoo.com> Hi All, two questions based on SS: 1. Any possibility of having I VOPs in Enhancement Layer (EL)? (If Yes, how to make MoMusys code put it?) 2. If a Base Layer VOP is skipped, will the encoder skip temporally coincident EL VOP or code all its MBs as Forward Motion Compensation type. Regards, Sandeep. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 From sm dicas.de Wed Nov 28 18:51:52 2001 From: sm dicas.de (Moeritz, Sebastian) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Call for MPEG-4 encoders for review Message-ID: <00c901c1783d$c3ecd1a0$938f5dc2@oemcomputer> Dear Ben, With great interest I have read your note yesterday in the M4IF technote list about your forthcoming article on ISO compliant MPEG-4 encoders and I thouhgt I drop you a few lines with a view of introducing our company. In a nutshell, if I may say, Dicas specialise in the manufacturing of innovative software solutions for efficient storage and transmission of audio-visual data via digital networks utilising both proprietary and public domain technologies. This obviously includes an ISO compliant MPEG-4 video encoder. We co-operate with the Heinrich-Hertz Institute (HHI) in Berlin, a member of the Motion Picture Experts group, who have actively contributed in defining the standards for MPEG-4. In this context I would confirm that one of our founding engineers, who has also published within the Motion Picture Experts Group, has actually worked with and at HHI for a number of years. In 1999, Dicas has won the Innovation Prize for Multimedia Technology granted by the German Ministry of Economy and the German Association of Engineers (VDI/VDE). Since then we have developed a number of products and are continuing to dedicate an extremely high level of resources towards further research and development in order to maintain our position as being "a step ahead". Besides researching and developing own products and applications, we have also ported our technological know-how and expertise for same to represent a product in its own right. In essence acting as our customer's know-how pool we deploy consultancy and development resources to adapt our technology to individual requirements and to integrate it into existing and emerging products. We are directly responding to the movements and opinions in the market, specifically in the Broadcast and Streaming area. Reliable content delivery and the sophisticated storage of content are paramount to any successful service provision or presence. Our objective and mission is to provide the industry with the most advanced core technology for digital video enabling the creation of high quality and state-of-the-art solutions for MPEG-4 based digital audio/video transmission and storage. All things considered, I would be grateful if you could revert back to me at your convenience with a date in December when you will need our encoder. Obviously we want to make sure to send you our most up-to-date version. If you have any queries or require further information, please do not hesitate to contact me. I look forward to hearing from you. Kind regards. Sebastian Moeritz Chief Executive Officer dicas digital image coding GmbH Holsteinische Str. 39-42 D - 12161 Berlin Telephone: +49 (0) 30 8507 4304 Facsimile: +49 (0) 30 8507 4306 Mobile: +44 (0) 7748 187 007 E-Mail: sm@dicas.de http://www.mpegable.com http://www.dicas.de dicas is a software technology firm that specializes in innovative components and applications for MPEG-based video coding. Furthermore, we customize our products to individual requirements and integrate them into our customer's applications and appliances. With a B2B focus, our mission is to provide the industry with the highest quality core technology for digital video, and to help our customers develop competitive products for the converging world of digital multimedia. >>> come and see the difference ... <<< This communication contains information, which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please notify us by e-mail or by telephone and then delete the e-mail and any copies of it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011128/2684a539/attachment.html From the_ether btinternet.com Thu Nov 29 03:53:49 2001 From: the_ether btinternet.com (the_ether) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Motion estimation + SAD Message-ID: <003001c17889$76733940$2b1c23d9@opsus> I have some basic questions: 1- What is the formula for calculating the sum of absolute differences (SAD) for a block, for which the motion vector (MV) has been determined to be (0,0)? I have seen: SAD = SAD(0,0) - (Nb / 2 + 1) but with two interpretations of Nb: a) Nb = the number of pixels inside the VOP b) same as (a) but multiplied by 2^(bits per pixel - 8) and number of pixels inside the macroblock instead of VOP I have a feeling that MPEG-4 only supports 8 bits per pixel, or at least only 8 bits each pixel in each of the Y, Cb and Cr components. In which case 2^0 = 1 so (a) = (b). (Except for no. of pixels inside VOP vs MB which I think is a typo) 2- Shouldn't Nb be the number of pixels in a *block* (ie Nb = 64) instead of a macroblock since DCT is calculated on each of the 6 blocks within a macroblock? 3- Why have this special case for MV(0,0) anyway? What if we have no movement between two frames (ie SAD(0,0) = 0), why subtract (Nb / 2 + 1) prior to performing DCT on that block ? Regards graham From mailsadiq yahoo.com Wed Nov 28 19:04:59 2001 From: mailsadiq yahoo.com (mahamed sadiq) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) Message-ID: <20011129030459.72522.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> rspected sir iam an engineering student in india ,sir i want to submit an assignment on mpeg-4 streaming over internet using dmif delivery can please send any detailed document about the streaming mpeg-4 contenrt and and protocol standered thank's sadiq __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 From Peter.Haighton m4if.org Thu Nov 29 09:04:38 2001 From: Peter.Haighton m4if.org (Peter Haighton) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Motion estimation + SAD In-Reply-To: <003001c17889$76733940$2b1c23d9@opsus> Message-ID: Graham, I am not sure exactly what you mean below. SAD is used as to to help find the best matching block that minimizes the difference between the current and the predictor frame. There are other methods besides SAD. If you have already determined that the motion vector is at (0,0) then there is little reason to do a SAD. MPEG-4 does support higher bits/pixel in the N-bit profile, but the rest of the video profiles only support 8bits/pixel/component. Peter -- Peter Haighton VideoSpheres Inc. 84 Hines Road Kanata, Ontario Canada, K2K 3G3 Tel: (613) 270-9646 x3022 Fax: (613) 271-9442 email: peterh@VideoSpheres.com See http://www.m4if.org for the latest on MPEG-4 -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of the_ether Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2023 10:54 PM To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Motion estimation + SAD I have some basic questions: 1- What is the formula for calculating the sum of absolute differences (SAD) for a block, for which the motion vector (MV) has been determined to be (0,0)? I have seen: SAD = SAD(0,0) - (Nb / 2 + 1) but with two interpretations of Nb: a) Nb = the number of pixels inside the VOP b) same as (a) but multiplied by 2^(bits per pixel - 8) and number of pixels inside the macroblock instead of VOP I have a feeling that MPEG-4 only supports 8 bits per pixel, or at least only 8 bits each pixel in each of the Y, Cb and Cr components. In which case 2^0 = 1 so (a) = (b). (Except for no. of pixels inside VOP vs MB which I think is a typo) 2- Shouldn't Nb be the number of pixels in a *block* (ie Nb = 64) instead of a macroblock since DCT is calculated on each of the 6 blocks within a macroblock? 3- Why have this special case for MV(0,0) anyway? What if we have no movement between two frames (ie SAD(0,0) = 0), why subtract (Nb / 2 + 1) prior to performing DCT on that block ? Regards graham _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From the_ether btinternet.com Fri Nov 30 00:30:48 2001 From: the_ether btinternet.com (the_ether) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Motion estimation + SAD References: Message-ID: <001101c17936$42fdaac0$ba1923d9@opsus> Okay, I think I'm sorted now, but is the prediction error the absolute of the difference between current and previous frames? If we only have 8 bits / pixel I was wondering what happens about the sign and whether the DCT only worked with positive values. I'm assuming that the prediction error can be -ve otherwise the decoder won't know how to reconstruct the block., but I'm not sure how to handle the -ve sign. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Haighton" To: "the_ether" Sent: 29 November 2023 15:56 Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Motion estimation + SAD > No, the SAD is not the prediction error. The prediction error is > current-predictor. > > Peter > > > -----Original Message----- > From: the_ether [mailto:the_ether@btinternet.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2023 10:37 AM > To: Peter Haighton > Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Motion estimation + SAD > > > Thanks for the reply. > > I thought that the SAD was also used as the 'prediction error' for > P-blocks > which is then passed to a DCT routine for compression. This is what the > formulas I've seen refer to I believe. In whcih case, my original > questions > stand. Why subtract the number of pixels in the block (or is it > macroblock)? > > g. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Haighton" > To: "the_ether" ; > Sent: 29 November 2023 14:04 > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Motion estimation + SAD > > > > Graham, > > > > I am not sure exactly what you mean below. SAD is used as to to help > find > > the best matching block that minimizes the difference between the > current > > and the predictor frame. There are other methods besides SAD. If you > have > > already determined that the motion vector is at (0,0) then there is > little > > reason to do a SAD. > > > > MPEG-4 does support higher bits/pixel in the N-bit profile, but the rest > > of the video profiles only support 8bits/pixel/component. > > > > Peter > > -- > > Peter Haighton > > VideoSpheres Inc. > > 84 Hines Road > > Kanata, Ontario > > Canada, K2K 3G3 > > Tel: (613) 270-9646 x3022 > > Fax: (613) 271-9442 > > email: peterh@VideoSpheres.com > > > > See http://www.m4if.org for the latest on MPEG-4 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > > [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of the_ether > > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2023 10:54 PM > > To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Motion estimation + SAD > > > > > > I have some basic questions: > > > > 1- What is the formula for calculating the sum of absolute differences > > (SAD) > > for a block, for which the motion vector (MV) has been determined to be > > (0,0)? > > > > I have seen: > > SAD = SAD(0,0) - (Nb / 2 + 1) > > > > but with two interpretations of Nb: > > a) Nb = the number of pixels inside the VOP > > b) same as (a) but multiplied by 2^(bits per pixel - 8) and number of > > pixels > > inside the macroblock instead of VOP > > > > I have a feeling that MPEG-4 only supports 8 bits per pixel, or at least > > only 8 bits each pixel in each of the Y, Cb and Cr components. In which > > case > > 2^0 = 1 so (a) = (b). (Except for no. of pixels inside VOP vs MB which > I > > think is a typo) > > > > 2- Shouldn't Nb be the number of pixels in a *block* (ie Nb = 64) > instead > > of > > a macroblock since DCT is calculated on each of the 6 blocks within a > > macroblock? > > > > 3- Why have this special case for MV(0,0) anyway? What if we have no > > movement between two frames (ie SAD(0,0) = 0), why subtract (Nb / 2 + 1) > > prior to performing DCT on that block ? > > > > Regards > > > > graham > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Technotes mailing list > > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > > > > > From Peter.Haighton m4if.org Fri Nov 30 09:03:44 2001 From: Peter.Haighton m4if.org (Peter Haighton) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Motion estimation + SAD In-Reply-To: <001101c17936$42fdaac0$ba1923d9@opsus> Message-ID: >Okay, I think I'm sorted now, but is the prediction error the absolute of >the difference between current and previous frames? No, the error is most definitely a signed value. >If we only have 8 bits / pixel I was wondering what happens about the sign >and whether the DCT only worked with positive values. The difference can be in the range (for 8 bit) of -255 to 255. Of course how many bits you actually use to store this information is an implementation issue. >I'm assuming that the prediction error can be -ve otherwise the decoder >won't know how to reconstruct the block., but I'm not sure how to handle >the -ve sign. That is correct, you must handle the sign. This is why SAD and calculating the actual error are different things. SAD is a tool that helps find the location with the smallest error. The smaller the error, the less bits to encode. Peter -- Peter Haighton VideoSpheres Inc. 84 Hines Road Kanata, Ontario Canada, K2K 3G3 Tel: (613) 270-9646 x3022 Fax: (613) 271-9442 email: peterh@VideoSpheres.com See http://www.m4if.org for the latest on MPEG-4 From rkoenen intertrust.com Fri Nov 30 08:05:18 2001 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Call for MPEG-4 encoders for review Message-ID: <720AE932C238D411B4D100C04F10DA6B04EB888C@exchange.epr.com> Dear Sebastian, All, While it is interesting to know about Dicas, I would like to keep this mailing list for technical discussions. Information about MPEG-4 products can be sent to Peter Haighton, see CC, who will include the inforemation here http://www.m4if.org/products/index.html And while we are writing non-technical mails to this list, may I encourage you and others with an interest in MPEG-4 to join the MPEG-4 Industry Forum. See http://www.m4if.org/membership.html for more information. Kind Regards, Rob Koenen -----Original Message----- From: Moeritz, Sebastian [mailto:sm@dicas.de] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2023 10:52 To: Ben Waggoner Cc: MPEG4 technical notes (E-mail) Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Call for MPEG-4 encoders for review Dear Ben, With great interest I have read your note yesterday in the M4IF technote list about your forthcoming article on ISO compliant MPEG-4 encoders and I thouhgt I drop you a few lines with a view of introducing our company. In a nutshell, if I may say, Dicas specialise in the manufacturing of innovative software solutions for efficient storage and transmission of audio-visual data via digital networks utilising both proprietary and public domain technologies. This obviously includes an ISO compliant MPEG-4 video encoder. We co-operate with the Heinrich-Hertz Institute (HHI) in Berlin, a member of the Motion Picture Experts group, who have actively contributed in defining the standards for MPEG-4. In this context I would confirm that one of our founding engineers, who has also published within the Motion Picture Experts Group, has actually worked with and at HHI for a number of years. In 1999, Dicas has won the Innovation Prize for Multimedia Technology granted by the German Ministry of Economy and the German Association of Engineers (VDI/VDE). Since then we have developed a number of products and are continuing to dedicate an extremely high level of resources towards further research and development in order to maintain our position as being "a step ahead". Besides researching and developing own products and applications, we have also ported our technological know-how and expertise for same to represent a product in its own right. In essence acting as our customer's know-how pool we deploy consultancy and development resources to adapt our technology to individual requirements and to integrate it into existing and emerging products. We are directly responding to the movements and opinions in the market, specifically in the Broadcast and Streaming area. Reliable content delivery and the sophisticated storage of content are paramount to any successful service provision or presence. Our objective and mission is to provide the industry with the most advanced core technology for digital video enabling the creation of high quality and state-of-the-art solutions for MPEG-4 based digital audio/video transmission and storage. All things considered, I would be grateful if you could revert back to me at your convenience with a date in December when you will need our encoder. Obviously we want to make sure to send you our most up-to-date version. If you have any queries or require further information, please do not hesitate to contact me. I look forward to hearing from you. Kind regards. Sebastian Moeritz Chief Executive Officer dicas digital image coding GmbH Holsteinische Str. 39-42 D - 12161 Berlin Telephone: +49 (0) 30 8507 4304 Facsimile: +49 (0) 30 8507 4306 Mobile: +44 (0) 7748 187 007 E-Mail: sm@dicas.de http://www.mpegable.com http://www.dicas.de dicas is a software technology firm that specializes in innovative components and applications for MPEG-based video coding. Furthermore, we customize our products to individual requirements and integrate them into our customer's applications and appliances. With a B2B focus, our mission is to provide the industry with the highest quality core technology for digital video, and to help our customers develop competitive products for the converging world of digital multimedia. >>> come and see the difference ... <<< This communication contains information, which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please notify us by e-mail or by telephone and then delete the e-mail and any copies of it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20011130/566323f7/attachment.html From chandra kasenna.com Fri Nov 30 19:20:15 2001 From: chandra kasenna.com (Chandra Sekhar Reddy G.) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) References: <20011129030459.72522.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005101c17a17$1892e0c0$c9040a0a@kasenna.wan> Dear Sadiq, try this, i got this by searching for "streaming mpeg4 dmif" in google :-) http://www.ece.ubc.ca/MCNL/DMIF-PV2001.pdf Chandra ----- Original Message ----- From: "mahamed sadiq" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2023 7:04 PM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) > rspected sir > > iam an engineering student in india ,sir i > want to submit an assignment on mpeg-4 streaming over > internet using dmif delivery can please send any > detailed document about the streaming mpeg-4 contenrt > and and protocol standered > thank's > sadiq > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes >