From yrenjie sina.com Mon Jul 1 10:28:54 2002 From: yrenjie sina.com (yrenjie) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:22 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) Message-ID: <20020701012854.26921.qmail@sina.com> Hi I am new to mpeg4.could someone tell me how to play the video format ".cmp" coded by microsoft mpeg4 codec? Thanking you in advance Yu Renjie ______________________________________ =================================================================== ÐÂÀËÃâ·Ñµç×ÓÓÊÏä (http://mail.sina.com.cn) ÐÂÀË·ÖÀàÐÅÏ¢£º¶þÊÖÊг¡×ßÒ»×ߣ¬¸Ã³öÊÖʱ¾Í³öÊÖ£¡ (http://classad.sina.com.cn/2shou/) From ben interframemedia.com Mon Jul 1 00:26:39 2002 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:22 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences In-Reply-To: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF5B2F@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: Folks, Is there a canonical download point for the standard MPEG test sequences that are commonly referenced in codec tests, like Carousel, et al. If not, any non-canonical way I can get me hands on "official" versions of them? Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding Cleaner Tutorial: http://www.saferseas.com/navseries/adclean.html My Book: http://www.benwaggoner.com/books.htm Compression Books: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm Compression classes at Stanford, July 15-19 and August 12-16: http://www.digitalmediaacademy.org/courses/videocompress.html From Markus.Wittkop dynapel.de Mon Jul 1 19:43:50 2002 From: Markus.Wittkop dynapel.de (Markus Wittkop) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:22 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Motion compensation and skipped macroblocks Message-ID: <3D2086C6.9000609@dynapel.de> Dear all, according to my understanding of MPEG4 Part2:Visual both P-VOPs and S(GMC)-VOPs may occur within a VOL with sprite_enable==GMC. If this is right, I am confused concerning motion compensation in the case of skipped co-located macroblocks: In section 7.6.9.6 of ISO/IEC 14496-2 two rules are given: " 1) If the co-located macroblock in the most recently decoded I- or P-VOP is skipped, the current B-macroblock is treated as the forward mode with zero motion vector (MVFx, MVFy). 2) If the co-located macroblock in the most recently decoded S(GMC)-VOP is skipped, this co-located macroblock is treated as a non-skipped macroblock with the averaged motion vector defined in subclause 7.8.7.3 for the current B-macroblock. " Hence rule one should be applied irrespective of sprite_enable and rule two should be applied merely for S(GMC)-VOPs. Within the syntax (section 6.2.6) these rules are expressed by the following condition: " if ((co_located_not_coded != 1 || (scalability && (ref_select_code != '11' || enhancement_type == 1)) || (sprite_enable == "GMC" && backward_reference_vop_coding_type == "S")) && video_object_layer_shape != "binary only") " Both the sprite usage mode (sprite_enable=="GMC") and the prediction mode (backward_reference_vop_coding_type == "S") are tested. However the corresponding condition in the MoMuSys (MoMuSys-FPDAM1-FPDAM4-001231) reference implementation reads " if((GetVopCoded(GetVopNextTemp(rec_vop)) == 1) && (co_mbx>=0)&&(co_mbx=0)&&(co_mby Message-ID: <20020702072812.26326.qmail@web12108.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Which is the best method for deciding the intra/inter decision in mpeg4 encoder. Is decision based on SAD of luminace alone will give better performance. Which could be the most ideal way of deciding the block in intra or inter. Rgds, -biju ===== ciao, ..ju __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com From santosh.chapaneri patni.com Tue Jul 2 17:11:24 2002 From: santosh.chapaneri patni.com (Santosh Chapaneri) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:23 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Welcome to the "Technotes" mailing list References: <200207021022.g62AMBlM029334@mx3.magma.ca> Message-ID: <00bf01c221b5$03538e80$8c03a8c0@patni> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2023 3:52 PM Subject: Welcome to the "Technotes" mailing list > Welcome to the Technotes@lists.m4if.org mailing list! > > To post to this list, send your email to: > > technotes@lists.m4if.org > > General information about the mailing list is at: > > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to > or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your > subscription page at: > > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/options/technotes/santosh.chapaneri%40patni.co m > > > You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: > > Technotes-request@lists.m4if.org > > with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the > quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. > From fzs 95777.com Tue Jul 2 23:22:22 2002 From: fzs 95777.com (Xiaotian Guo) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:23 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I get ASP reference source codec Message-ID: <004801c221d3$e465fb60$2fc696d3@2632> Hi, everybody, I need reference source codec of Advanced simple profile and some papers about it. Best regards, Xiaotian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020702/5be2190d/attachment.html From Robert.Armitano netapp.com Tue Jul 2 11:11:21 2002 From: Robert.Armitano netapp.com (Armitano, Robert) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:23 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Intra/Inter Decision on mpeg4 Message-ID: <6440EA1A6AA1D5118C6900902745938E0597E443@black.eng.netapp.com> The decision is based on bitrate. Intra-coded block usually require more bits to encode (locally), but may result in global bitrate reduction. Take care, -Robbie -----Original Message----- From: Biju Ravindran [mailto:ravi_biju@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2023 12:28 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Intra/Inter Decision on mpeg4 Hi, Which is the best method for deciding the intra/inter decision in mpeg4 encoder. Is decision based on SAD of luminace alone will give better performance. Which could be the most ideal way of deciding the block in intra or inter. Rgds, -biju ===== ciao, ..ju __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From rkoenen intertrust.com Tue Jul 2 12:07:38 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:23 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Intra/Inter Decision on mpeg4 Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF5B87@exchange.epr.com> There is a lot of literature available on these mode decisions. It is impossible to give a concise answer on this list. Note that encoding in MPEG-4 is not normatively prescribed. Good luck, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Armitano, Robert [mailto:Robert.Armitano@netapp.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2023 10:11 > To: 'Biju Ravindran'; technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Intra/Inter Decision on mpeg4 > > > The decision is based on bitrate. Intra-coded block usually > require more bits to encode (locally), but may result in > global bitrate reduction. > > Take care, > > -Robbie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Biju Ravindran [mailto:ravi_biju@yahoo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2023 12:28 AM > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Intra/Inter Decision on mpeg4 > > Hi, > Which is the best method for deciding the > intra/inter decision in mpeg4 encoder. > Is decision based on SAD of luminace alone will give > better performance. Which could be the most ideal way > of deciding the block in intra or inter. > > Rgds, > -biju > > ===== > ciao, > ..ju > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free > http://sbc.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From rkoenen intertrust.com Tue Jul 2 12:49:52 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:23 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I get ASP reference source codec Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF5B8C@exchange.epr.com> THis is a recurring question. I hope Weiping Li knows about the reference SW's status. A good tutorial will be uploaded to the WEMP4 area shortly, and when it is, it will be here: http://www.m4if.org/wemp2002/downloads.php Rob -----Original Message----- From: Xiaotian Guo [mailto:fzs@95777.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2023 7:22 To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I get ASP reference source codec Hi, everybody, I need reference source codec of Advanced simple profile and some papers about it. Best regards, Xiaotian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020702/2165f161/attachment.html From li webcasttech.com Tue Jul 2 15:05:12 2002 From: li webcasttech.com (Weiping Li) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:23 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I get ASP reference source codec References: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF5B8C@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: <030901c2220c$402ae4a0$126ea8c0@AdminPC> Rob, The reference software FDAM has been available in an MPEG document N4711 from the Jeju meeting. I am not sure about the final approval process at ISO. Therefore, it is certainly available to MPEG members now. For the general public, I guess we have to check with ISO. Best regards, Weiping ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Koenen To: 'Xiaotian Guo' ; technotes@lists.m4if.org ; Weiping Li (WebCast) (E-mail) Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2023 11:49 AM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I get ASP reference source codec THis is a recurring question. I hope Weiping Li knows about the reference SW's status. A good tutorial will be uploaded to the WEMP4 area shortly, and when it is, it will be here: http://www.m4if.org/wemp2002/downloads.php Rob -----Original Message----- From: Xiaotian Guo [mailto:fzs@95777.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2023 7:22 To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I get ASP reference source codec Hi, everybody, I need reference source codec of Advanced simple profile and some papers about it. Best regards, Xiaotian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020702/51ecd8bd/attachment.html From rkoenen intertrust.com Tue Jul 2 15:11:20 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:23 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I get ASP reference source codec Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF5B9A@exchange.epr.com> I haven't seen the publication notice from ISO so I guess it is not yet available. WHen it is, it should be here: http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/14496-5_Compressed_ directories/ (remove any carriage returns) Rob -----Original Message----- From: Weiping Li [mailto:li@webcasttech.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2023 14:05 To: Rob Koenen; 'Xiaotian Guo'; technotes@lists.m4if.org Cc: li@webcasttech.com Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I get ASP reference source codec Rob, The reference software FDAM has been available in an MPEG document N4711 from the Jeju meeting. I am not sure about the final approval process at ISO. Therefore, it is certainly available to MPEG members now. For the general public, I guess we have to check with ISO. Best regards, Weiping ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Koenen To: 'Xiaotian Guo' ; technotes@lists.m4if.org ; Weiping Li (WebCast) (E-mail) Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2023 11:49 AM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I get ASP reference source codec THis is a recurring question. I hope Weiping Li knows about the reference SW's status. A good tutorial will be uploaded to the WEMP4 area shortly, and when it is, it will be here: http://www.m4if.org/wemp2002/downloads.php Rob -----Original Message----- From: Xiaotian Guo [mailto:fzs@95777.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2023 7:22 To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I get ASP reference source codec Hi, everybody, I need reference source codec of Advanced simple profile and some papers about it. Best regards, Xiaotian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020702/cf747050/attachment.html From yrenjie sina.com Wed Jul 3 11:04:53 2002 From: yrenjie sina.com (yrenjie) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:23 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) Message-ID: <20020703020454.5563.qmail@sina.com> hi I am doing some research about error resilience of mpeg4,how can i construct such a environment to simulate the wireless case such as WCDMA?Is there any standard about this simulation environment? Best regards Yu Renjie ______________________________________ =================================================================== ÐÂÀËÃâ·Ñµç×ÓÓÊÏä (http://mail.sina.com.cn) ÐÂÀË·ÖÀàÐÅÏ¢£º¶þÊÖÊг¡×ßÒ»×ߣ¬¸Ã³öÊÖʱ¾Í³öÊÖ£¡ (http://classad.sina.com.cn/2shou/) From santosh.chapaneri patni.com Wed Jul 3 10:27:58 2002 From: santosh.chapaneri patni.com (Santosh Chapaneri) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:23 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Core Scalable Profile Message-ID: <002c01c22245$d1c79140$8c03a8c0@patni> Hi, I am doing a implementation of Core Scalable Profile for Mpeg4 Video Encoder. I have the following doubts: What is the difference between P-VOP based Temporal Scalability which supports Rectangular and Arbitrary shaped VOPs, and Temporal Scalability (Rectangular) ? For Object Based Spatial Scalability, spatial scalable shape coding uses Scan Interleaving Algorithm. But the standard does not clearly indicate how to use the algorithm. For example, it says that for Intra mode CAE, first V-SI and H-SI both should be performed before doing CAE. Can anyone explain what is Scan Interleaving Algorithm? Many Thanks for the timely help. Thanks and Regards, Santosh Chapaneri, Software Engineer Product and Technology Initiatives Patni Computer Systems Limited Unit 19,SDF VII,SEEPZ,Andheri(E) Mumbai-400 096, India Tel:91 22 8291454 Extn: 5809 http://www.patni.com World-Wide Partnerships. World-Class Solutions. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020703/52b643ae/attachment.html From wuks bhnec.nec.co.jp Tue Jul 2 17:07:45 2002 From: wuks bhnec.nec.co.jp (wuks@bhnec.nec.co.jp) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] about AC/DC prediction Message-ID: how to half sample search? 1¡¢ the reconstructed VOP and the current MB are also upsampled? or 2¡¢only the reconstructed VOP is upsampled? if it's item 1, how to get predicting error? if it's item 2, it's a bolck in the reconstructed VOP that uses to estimate a MB in the current VOP? thank very much for your help! From sgkim logostek.com Wed Jul 3 18:42:37 2002 From: sgkim logostek.com (Kim, Sunggu) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question : MPEG-4 Video License Message-ID: Hi, everybody, Where can I get the recent proposed licensing terms for MPEG-4 Visual? Thanks, Kim, Sunggu ------------------------------------------- Team Manager Ph : +82 - 2 - 3663- 5855 HP : 017-417-2924 Mail : sgkim@logostek.com Home : www.logostek.com -------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1564 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020703/9b16d805/winmail.bin From santosh.chapaneri patni.com Wed Jul 3 15:37:28 2002 From: santosh.chapaneri patni.com (Santosh Chapaneri) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] about AC/DC prediction References: Message-ID: <003b01c22271$0e9cc880$8c03a8c0@patni> hi, halfsample search is carried out in the following manner the 1st frame is always I-CODED. so there is no question of motion estimation in the 1st frame. from the second frame onwards.... 1. upsample and interpolate the previous frame. 2. carry out the motion estimation on the interpolated upsampled reconstructed previous frame. note however that if u use the reconstructed frame instead of the original previous frame u wont get the exact motion for the color components regds ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2023 1:37 PM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] about AC/DC prediction how to half sample search? 1¡¢ the reconstructed VOP and the current MB are also upsampled? or 2¡¢only the reconstructed VOP is upsampled? if it's item 1, how to get predicting error? if it's item 2, it's a bolck in the reconstructed VOP that uses to estimate a MB in the current VOP? thank very much for your help! _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From manish.kulkarni uisdl.com Wed Jul 3 11:03:15 2002 From: manish.kulkarni uisdl.com (Manish Kulkarni) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Need help Message-ID: <3D227E8A.4AE616A@uisdl.com> Hi, The ISO Reference software which I ordered seems to have some flaws. This is a technical query. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Doubt 1) When I try to run the offline 'Mux' with a .scr file as input I find that i get an error. It says, ".od" and ".bifs" files not found. This seems to have something to do with the muxinfo-> not being able to find some files. Doubt 2) Also there seem to be no input files for testing 2D player(mp4 files).Why is this?. There are for 3D. Doubt 3) Where can I find more reliable documentation and help as regards MPEG-4 Players excpecially DMIF and Systems? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Could anybody help me in this regard? Thanx and regards, Manish -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020703/a70e2338/attachment.html From rkoenen intertrust.com Wed Jul 3 14:51:40 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question : MPEG-4 Video License Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF5BD4@exchange.epr.com> See here for everything that is known: http://www.m4if.org/patents/ Things are likely to change significantly, and *hopefully* those changes will be announced soon (= within a matter of weeks) As you will know, M4IF deal with licensing, which is squarely out of M4IF's mandate Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Kim, Sunggu [mailto:sgkim@logostek.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2023 1:43 > To: mpeg4if > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question : MPEG-4 Video License > > Hi, everybody, > > Where can I get the recent proposed licensing terms for MPEG-4 Visual? > > > Thanks, > > > > > Kim, Sunggu > ------------------------------------------- > Team Manager > Ph : +82 - 2 - 3663- 5855 > HP : 017-417-2924 > Mail : sgkim@logostek.com > Home : www.logostek.com > -------------------------------------------- > From rkoenen intertrust.com Wed Jul 3 15:08:35 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question : MPEG-4 Video License Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF5BDC@exchange.epr.com> > As you will know, M4IF deal with licensing, which is squarely > out of M4IF's mandate Hmm - sorry, two words got dropped: As you will know, M4IF DOES NOT deal with licensing, which is squarely out of M4IF's mandate Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020703/bd144274/attachment.html From manu.batura patni.com Fri Jul 5 12:51:34 2002 From: manu.batura patni.com (Manu V Batura) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] FEC for Scalable Video? Message-ID: <000801c223ec$36984cc0$5402a8c0@patni.com> Hi, Does anybody know what FEC schemes are best for MPEG4 video data? Also where should the FEC encoder be applied to while encoding video data. We have base and enhancement layers and would like to FEC encode different layers independently for optimal bit allocation. Thanks & Regards, Manu Batura From alisson dsc.ufpb.br Fri Jul 5 14:54:37 2002 From: alisson dsc.ufpb.br (Alisson Brito) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Quality measurement tool Message-ID: <002101c22444$a57d65f0$454ba596@alissonpessoal> Hi, Anyone can help me where can I find a good video quality measurement (like PSNR) tool? Thanks, Alisson From yrenjie sina.com Mon Jul 8 21:00:57 2002 From: yrenjie sina.com (yrenjie) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] about ".cmp " format Message-ID: <20020708120057.1183.qmail@sina.com> Hi Are there any documents about the format ".cmp" producted by microsoft mpeg4 codec? Best regards Yu Renjie ______________________________________ =================================================================== ÐÂÀËÃâ·Ñµç×ÓÓÊÏä (http://mail.sina.com.cn) ÐÂÀË·ÖÀàÐÅÏ¢£º¶þÊÖÊг¡×ßÒ»×ߣ¬¸Ã³öÊÖʱ¾Í³öÊÖ£¡ (http://classad.sina.com.cn/2shou/) From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Mon Jul 8 15:51:54 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Need help Message-ID: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC101B8FE86@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> Dear Manish, --- Doubt 1) When I try to run the offline 'Mux' with a .scr file as input I find that i get an error. It says, ".od" and ".bifs" files not found. This seems to have something to do with the muxinfo-> not being able to find some files. --- Maybe Zvi can help. --- Doubt 2) Also there seem to be no input files for testing 2D player(mp4 files).Why is this?. There are for 3D. --- There are many 2D files in the conformance part of the standard. You can buy it. You can also get 2D files on the ENST site (Jean-Claude can help). --- Doubt 3) Where can I find more reliable documentation and help as regards MPEG-4 Players excpecially DMIF and Systems? --- I don't think they are detailed documentation. This is a reference software, not a product. You can get products at Envivio, Tilab, ... cu, O. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020708/3a1aa5ab/attachment.html From yrenjie sina.com Mon Jul 8 21:42:12 2002 From: yrenjie sina.com (yrenjie) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] ".cmp" format Message-ID: <20020708124212.14554.qmail@sina.com> Hi What is the difference between the format coded as frame-based and object-based? Thanks Yu Renjie ______________________________________ =================================================================== ÐÂÀËÃâ·Ñµç×ÓÓÊÏä (http://mail.sina.com.cn) ÐÂÀË·ÖÀàÐÅÏ¢£º¶þÊÖÊг¡×ßÒ»×ߣ¬¸Ã³öÊÖʱ¾Í³öÊÖ£¡ (http://classad.sina.com.cn/2shou/) From OPHIR il.ibm.com Mon Jul 8 17:27:52 2002 From: OPHIR il.ibm.com (Ophir Azulai) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:24 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Using the reference encoder for spatial scalability Message-ID: Hello, I am trying to use the reference encoder to create spatial scalability streams. I tried several combinations of the parameters file but the encoder always crashes. The encoder works fine with temporal scalability. Has anyone experienced the reference encoder for creating spatial scalability streams? Thanks, Ophir Azulai IBM labs Phone: 972-4-829-6195, Fax: 972-4-829-6112 E-Mail: ophir@il.ibm.com From zvil csi.com Mon Jul 8 18:47:33 2002 From: zvil csi.com (Zvi Lifshitz) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Need help In-Reply-To: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC101B8FE86@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> Message-ID: <001a01c2268e$657d30b0$26000a8c@zvil> [AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN:] > Doubt 1) > When I try to run the offline 'Mux' with a .scr file as input I find that i get an error. > It says, > ".od" and ".bifs" files not found. This seems to have something to do with the muxinfo-> not being able to find some files. > --- > Maybe Zvi can help. [zl:] Do you have .od and .bifs files that you try to mux? z soon the whole world will STREAM ================================================================== Zvi Lifshitz Phone +972-2-679-4788 zvil@optibase.com Fax +972-9-958-6099 Optibase Ltd. GSM: +972-54-461-787 (+972-LI-IM1-RTP) http://www.optibase.com US voice mail/fax +1(206)888-4149 ================================================================== Come see us at: Video over DSL conference, Hilton Barcelona, Spain, July 10-11, 2002 IBC 2002 Trade show, Amsterdam RAI Center, Booth # 2.249, September 13-17, 2002 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 7368 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020708/89e23e22/winmail.bin From rkoenen intertrust.com Mon Jul 8 18:40:22 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Quality measurement tool Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF5C18@exchange.epr.com> Please look at www.vqeg.org for references and information. This is to my knowledge the most comprehensive project undertaken to arrive at (a standard for) a tool for automated visual quality assessment. I am not sure how up-to-date the site is. Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Alisson Brito [mailto:alisson@dsc.ufpb.br] > Sent: Friday, July 05, 2023 9:55 > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Quality measurement tool > > > Hi, > Anyone can help me where can I find a good video quality > measurement (like > PSNR) tool? > Thanks, > Alisson > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From yi.li skyworksinc.com Mon Jul 8 22:22:13 2002 From: yi.li skyworksinc.com (Yi Li) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Blocking and ringing semaphores for post-processing Message-ID: <200207090147.g691lL9X023432@mx3.magma.ca> There is a short paragraph in the MPEG-4 spec, discussing the use of blocking and ringing semaphores to reduce the computational cost of post-processing. Does any one have more detailed info/document on how to use those semaphores? Yi From philip.j.corriveau intel.com Tue Jul 9 14:59:27 2002 From: philip.j.corriveau intel.com (Corriveau, Philip J) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Quality measurement tool Message-ID: Alisson, If you have specific questions I can help you answer them. Sincerely, Philip Philip Corriveau Center for Subjective Assessment Sr. Video Quality Engineer Intel Labs philip.j.corriveau@intel.com Intel Corporation JF3-204 2111 NE 25th Avenue Hillsboro, OR 97124 503-712-4335 (tel) 503-599-2514 (pager) 503-264-1118 (fax) ----- THE INFORMATION PROVIDED IS "AS IS" WITH NO WARRANTIES WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING ANY WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY, NONINFRINGEMENT, FITNESS FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR ANY WARRANTY OTHERWISE ARISING OUT OF ANY PROPOSAL, SPECIFICATION OR SAMPLE. Intel disclaims all liability, including liability for infringement of any proprietary rights, relating to use of information in this specification. No license, express or implied, by estoppel or otherwise, to any intellectual property rights is granted herein. ---- -----Original Message----- From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] Sent: Monday, July 08, 2023 5:40 PM To: 'Alisson Brito'; technotes@lists.m4if.org Cc: 'Philip Corriveau'; 'Arthur Webster' Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Quality measurement tool Please look at www.vqeg.org for references and information. This is to my knowledge the most comprehensive project undertaken to arrive at (a standard for) a tool for automated visual quality assessment. I am not sure how up-to-date the site is. Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Alisson Brito [mailto:alisson@dsc.ufpb.br] > Sent: Friday, July 05, 2023 9:55 > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Quality measurement tool > > > Hi, > Anyone can help me where can I find a good video quality > measurement (like > PSNR) tool? > Thanks, > Alisson > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From olivier.amato laposte.net Wed Jul 10 10:24:44 2002 From: olivier.amato laposte.net (Olivier Amato) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Quality measurement tool References: Message-ID: <002a01c227e2$e1218e00$17360f50@beck> Philip, > If you have specific questions I can help you answer them. I'm also looking for some softwares to objectively measure quality of encoded video. Are there some valuable methods right now ? I've personally tested PSNR and Sarnoff's algorithms ( JNDmetrix ) and I've heard about Genista, but experts generally think these solutions don't compete with good subjective testings ... Regards, Olivier Amato From manu.batura patni.com Wed Jul 10 20:13:53 2002 From: manu.batura patni.com (Manu V Batura) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Video Encoder Testing Message-ID: <000b01c22817$d50c30e0$5402a8c0@patni.com> Hi All, I wanted to know what would be the best way to test Video Encoder Implementation. Currently, we are using Reference Software Decoder provided by ISO to test the implementations. We make test streams of raw data, encode them through our encoder and try and decode them through reference decoders. Is it the only way possible? Is there a better way to test the implementation? Thanks & Regards, Manu V Batura From rkoenen intertrust.com Wed Jul 10 11:52:43 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Video Encoder Testing Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF5C57@exchange.epr.com> > Implementation. > Currently, we are using Reference Software Decoder provided > by ISO to test > the implementations. > We make test streams of raw data, encode them through our > encoder and try > and decode them through > reference decoders. Is it the only way possible? > > Is there a better way to test the implementation? That's a good way of doing it. ANother way is obtaining as many decoders as possible (Real + plug-in, QuitckTime, dicas (www.dicas.de), SimgaDesigns (see www.m4if.org under hot news) The best way, forgive the plug, is to join M4IF and to take part in the interoperability tests. That way you will not only be able to test your stuff yourself, you will also have other people work with your bitstreams and provide you with feedback. Good luck, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Manu V Batura [mailto:manu.batura@patni.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2023 6:44 > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Video Encoder Testing > > > Hi All, > > I wanted to know what would be the best way to test Video Encoder > Implementation. > Currently, we are using Reference Software Decoder provided > by ISO to test > the implementations. > We make test streams of raw data, encode them through our > encoder and try > and decode them through > reference decoders. Is it the only way possible? > > Is there a better way to test the implementation? > > Thanks & Regards, > Manu V Batura > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From rkoenen intertrust.com Wed Jul 10 18:15:39 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF5C75@exchange.epr.com> Ben, This is a problem and it has always been one. Test sequences belong to companies, not to MPEG, and there was never a clear way of getting a hold of them, and it is even murkier for which purpose they can be used within constraints imposed by their owners a long time ago. To alleviate this problem, M4IF is working with the Technical University in Munich, who are taking the initiative to shoot, and make generally available for use in MPEG and M4IF, a series of representative test sequences. This will not help you for now, though. If anyone on this list can help Ben get his hands on the sequences often used in MPEG, then please speak up. Best, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Waggoner [mailto:ben@interframemedia.com] > Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2023 23:27 > To: M4if > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences > > > Folks, > > Is there a canonical download point for the standard MPEG > test sequences > that are commonly referenced in codec tests, like Carousel, et al. > > If not, any non-canonical way I can get me hands on > "official" versions > of them? > > Ben Waggoner > Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding > > Cleaner Tutorial: http://www.saferseas.com/navseries/adclean.html > My Book: http://www.benwaggoner.com/books.htm > Compression Books: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm > > Compression classes at Stanford, July 15-19 and August 12-16: > http://www.digitalmediaacademy.org/courses/videocompress.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From sdanahy mediaexcel.com Wed Jul 10 20:54:27 2002 From: sdanahy mediaexcel.com (Scott Danahy) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences References: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF5C75@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: <002501c22875$8260ecb0$0f00a8c0@XANADU> Berkley Multimedia Research Center keeps an archive of MPEG related files at: http://bmrc.berkeley.edu/ftp/pub/multimedia/mpeg/. As I remember, you can find some of the usual test sequences somewhere in there, though I have no idea about the terms of use. Scott Danahy Media Excel - www.mediaexcel.com 512.832.8700 x 308 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Koenen" To: "'Ben Waggoner'" Cc: "M4if" ; "Klaus Diepold (TU Munchen) (E-mail)" Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2023 7:15 PM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences > Ben, > > This is a problem and it has always been one. > > Test sequences belong to companies, not to MPEG, and there > was never a clear way of getting a hold of them, and it > is even murkier for which purpose they can be used within > constraints imposed by their owners a long time ago. > > To alleviate this problem, M4IF is working with the Technical > University in Munich, who are taking the initiative to shoot, and > make generally available for use in MPEG and M4IF, a series of > representative test sequences. > > This will not help you for now, though. > > If anyone on this list can help Ben get his hands on the sequences > often used in MPEG, then please speak up. > > Best, > Rob > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ben Waggoner [mailto:ben@interframemedia.com] > > Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2023 23:27 > > To: M4if > > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences > > > > > > Folks, > > > > Is there a canonical download point for the standard MPEG > > test sequences > > that are commonly referenced in codec tests, like Carousel, et al. > > > > If not, any non-canonical way I can get me hands on > > "official" versions > > of them? > > > > Ben Waggoner > > Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding > > > > Cleaner Tutorial: http://www.saferseas.com/navseries/adclean.html > > My Book: http://www.benwaggoner.com/books.htm > > Compression Books: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm > > > > Compression classes at Stanford, July 15-19 and August 12-16: > > http://www.digitalmediaacademy.org/courses/videocompress.html > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Technotes mailing list > > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From kmarks apple.com Wed Jul 10 19:07:02 2002 From: kmarks apple.com (Kevin Marks) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences In-Reply-To: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF5C75@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: <82240169-946A-11D6-AD4C-00039348D666@apple.com> I believe vqeg.org has them as uncompressed 601 files too. On Wednesday, July 10, 2002, at 05:15 PM, Rob Koenen wrote: > Ben, > > This is a problem and it has always been one. > > Test sequences belong to companies, not to MPEG, and there > was never a clear way of getting a hold of them, and it > is even murkier for which purpose they can be used within > constraints imposed by their owners a long time ago. > > To alleviate this problem, M4IF is working with the Technical > University in Munich, who are taking the initiative to shoot, and > make generally available for use in MPEG and M4IF, a series of > representative test sequences. > > This will not help you for now, though. > > If anyone on this list can help Ben get his hands on the sequences > often used in MPEG, then please speak up. > > Best, > Rob From ben interframemedia.com Wed Jul 10 19:42:38 2002 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences In-Reply-To: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF5C75@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: Rob, Excellent news on a standard set of images with clear rights. Another issue I have with the current test sequences is almost no real-world apps can read the .yuv format, and there aren't any tools I know of that can do a native colorspace conversion between .yuv and .mov or .avi. Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding Cleaner Tutorial: http://www.saferseas.com/navseries/adclean.html My Book: http://www.benwaggoner.com/books.htm Compression Books: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm Compression classes at Stanford, July 15-19 and August 12-16: http://www.digitalmediaacademy.org/courses/videocompress.html on 7/10/02 5:15 PM, Rob Koenen at rkoenen@intertrust.com wrote: > This is a problem and it has always been one. > > Test sequences belong to companies, not to MPEG, and there > was never a clear way of getting a hold of them, and it > is even murkier for which purpose they can be used within > constraints imposed by their owners a long time ago. > > To alleviate this problem, M4IF is working with the Technical > University in Munich, who are taking the initiative to shoot, and > make generally available for use in MPEG and M4IF, a series of > representative test sequences. > > This will not help you for now, though. > > If anyone on this list can help Ben get his hands on the sequences > often used in MPEG, then please speak up. From wuks bhnec.nec.co.jp Wed Jul 10 11:14:36 2002 From: wuks bhnec.nec.co.jp (wuks@bhnec.nec.co.jp) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] where can i fine the format of the mpeg4 file Message-ID: I want to write mpeg4 file, but i don't know what it's format is in detail, can anyone give me your hand or where i can fine the info? thank very much for your help! From cloverleafland hongkong.com Thu Jul 11 12:31:44 2002 From: cloverleafland hongkong.com (cloverleafland@hongkong.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Video Encoder Testing Message-ID: Hello.... May I know how do you make the raw data? Regards, caca > Hi All, > > I wanted to know what would be the best way to test Video Encoder > Implementation. > Currently, we are using Reference Software Decoder provided by ISO to test > the implementations. > We make test streams of raw data, encode them through our encoder and try > and decode them through > reference decoders. Is it the only way possible? > > Is there a better way to test the implementation? > > Thanks & Regards, > Manu V Batura > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes ---------------------------------------------- Åwªï¨Ï¥ÎHongKong.com¶l¥ó¨t²Î Thank you for using hongkong.com Email system From cloverleafland hongkong.com Thu Jul 11 12:32:41 2002 From: cloverleafland hongkong.com (cloverleafland@hongkong.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Video Encoder Testing Message-ID: Hi All, May I know how do you make the raw data? Regards, caca > Hi All, > > I wanted to know what would be the best way to test Video Encoder > Implementation. > Currently, we are using Reference Software Decoder provided by ISO to test > the implementations. > We make test streams of raw data, encode them through our encoder and try > and decode them through > reference decoders. Is it the only way possible? > > Is there a better way to test the implementation? > > Thanks & Regards, > Manu V Batura > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes ---------------------------------------------- Åwªï¨Ï¥ÎHongKong.com¶l¥ó¨t²Î Thank you for using hongkong.com Email system From cloverleafland hongkong.com Thu Jul 11 12:34:05 2002 From: cloverleafland hongkong.com (cloverleafland@hongkong.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:25 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Video Encoder Testing Message-ID: Hi All, May I know how do you make the raw data? Regards, caca > Hi All, > > I wanted to know what would be the best way to test Video Encoder > Implementation. > Currently, we are using Reference Software Decoder provided by ISO to test > the implementations. > We make test streams of raw data, encode them through our encoder and try > and decode them through > reference decoders. Is it the only way possible? > > Is there a better way to test the implementation? > > Thanks & Regards, > Manu V Batura > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes ---------------------------------------------- Åwªï¨Ï¥ÎHongKong.com¶l¥ó¨t²Î Thank you for using hongkong.com Email system From rkoenen intertrust.com Wed Jul 10 23:13:56 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] where can i fine the format of the mpeg4 fil e Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF5C79@exchange.epr.com> > I want to write mpeg4 file, but i don't know what it's format > is in detail, > can anyone give me your hand or where i can fine the info? If you are asking about the file format, it is in the Systems part of the MPEG-4 Standard, 14496-1. If you are wondering about the syntax of a video bistream, check out MPEG-4 Visual, 14496 part 2 Deatils on how to obtain the standard are on www.m4if.org under resources, which also contains many tutorials. I assume that given your earlier questions, you should have access to the standard though. Kind Regards, Rob From Max.Griessl dynapel.de Thu Jul 11 09:33:07 2002 From: Max.Griessl dynapel.de (Max Griessl) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences References: Message-ID: <3D2D26A3.3080309@dynapel.de> With the Microsoft reference code there comes a small DOS utility yuvtoavi.exe which does a conversion from yuv to avi containing uncompressed RGB video. I am not aware of any other public available tools. Max Griessl Ben Waggoner wrote: > Rob, > > Excellent news on a standard set of images with clear rights. > > Another issue I have with the current test sequences is almost no > real-world apps can read the .yuv format, and there aren't any tools I know > of that can do a native colorspace conversion between .yuv and .mov or .avi. > > > Ben Waggoner > Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding > > Cleaner Tutorial: http://www.saferseas.com/navseries/adclean.html > My Book: http://www.benwaggoner.com/books.htm > Compression Books: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm > > Compression classes at Stanford, July 15-19 and August 12-16: > http://www.digitalmediaacademy.org/courses/videocompress.html > > > > on 7/10/02 5:15 PM, Rob Koenen at rkoenen@intertrust.com wrote: > > >>This is a problem and it has always been one. >> >>Test sequences belong to companies, not to MPEG, and there >>was never a clear way of getting a hold of them, and it >>is even murkier for which purpose they can be used within >>constraints imposed by their owners a long time ago. >> >>To alleviate this problem, M4IF is working with the Technical >>University in Munich, who are taking the initiative to shoot, and >>make generally available for use in MPEG and M4IF, a series of >>representative test sequences. >> >>This will not help you for now, though. >> >>If anyone on this list can help Ben get his hands on the sequences >>often used in MPEG, then please speak up. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > -- Max Griessl DynaPel Laboratories GmbH Software Design Fraunhoferstr. 9/2 Tel: +49 (0) 89 96242812 D-85737 Ismaning, Germany Fax: +49 (0) 89 96242890 http://www.dynapel.de From olivier.amato laposte.net Thu Jul 11 09:49:40 2002 From: olivier.amato laposte.net (Olivier Amato) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences References: Message-ID: <003501c228a7$251e2fe0$47a30b50@beck> Ben, > Another issue I have with the current test sequences is almost no > real-world apps can read the .yuv format, I know 2 players for .yuv files. One is available on line ( http://thanglong.ece.jhu.edu/Course/643/YUVplayer.exe ) and I can send you the other directly if you need to. > and there aren't any tools I know > of that can do a native colorspace conversion between .yuv and .mov or .avi. For .yuv to .avi conversion, I generally use Microsoft's tool ( yuvtoavi.exe ). There is also another tool with GUI ( http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/S.Worrall/dloads/yuv2avi.zip ), but I had some strange results ( washed colors ) when I tested it a while ago. The same author ( s.worrall@eim.surrey.ac.uk ) also provided a very useful tool to convert VQEG's YUV 4:2:2 files to AVI. This is the only one I found. Regards, Olivier Amato From ben interframemedia.com Thu Jul 11 00:59:24 2002 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences In-Reply-To: <3D2D26A3.3080309@dynapel.de> Message-ID: Max, Yes, I know of that. But it does an unwanted color space conversion to RGB. I want to be able to convert to a YUV codec like Huffyuv or any of the many QuickTime YUV authoring codecs without having to go to RGB. Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding Cleaner Tutorial: http://www.saferseas.com/navseries/adclean.html My Book: http://www.benwaggoner.com/books.htm Compression Books: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm Compression classes at Stanford, July 15-19 and August 12-16: http://www.digitalmediaacademy.org/courses/videocompress.html on 7/10/02 11:33 PM, Max Griessl at Max.Griessl@dynapel.de wrote: > With the Microsoft reference code there comes a small DOS utility yuvtoavi.exe > which does a conversion from yuv to avi containing uncompressed RGB video. > I am not aware of any other public available tools. From Danilo.Tromp NOB.nl Thu Jul 11 10:32:36 2002 From: Danilo.Tromp NOB.nl (Danilo Tromp) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences References: <003501c228a7$251e2fe0$47a30b50@beck> Message-ID: <003d01c228ad$214505a0$2e6417ac@danilo> Hi, > I know 2 players for .yuv files. One is available on line ( > http://thanglong.ece.jhu.edu/Course/643/YUVplayer.exe ) and I can send you > the other directly if you need to. There is one more, including source: http://kbs.cs.tu-berlin.de/~stewe/vceg/tools.htm From Jean-Claude.Dufourd enst.fr Thu Jul 11 10:36:11 2002 From: Jean-Claude.Dufourd enst.fr (Jean-Claude Dufourd) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] easy access to MPEG-4 Systems streams Message-ID: <3D2D356B.3080300@enst.fr> Dear all, In order to provide easy access to MPEG-4 Systems conformance streams, here is a link to zip containers (limited to 10-12Mb max) containing most of the Systems sequences. http://www.comelec.enst.fr/~dufourd/mpeg-4/streams.html THESE ARE MADE AVAILABLE WITHOUT GUARANTEE. I do not commit to updating these packs each time a little stream is fixed, and I do not commit to any quality of service or durability. If my systems engineer tells me this causes too much traffic, I'll have to remove them. Best regards JC -- Jean-Claude Dufourd @======================================@ ENST, Dept COMELEC The wing, over the big rock... 46, rue Barrault @======================================@ 75013 Paris Tel: +33145817807 Fax: +33145804036 From ersin.esen bilten.metu.edu.tr Thu Jul 11 11:45:49 2002 From: ersin.esen bilten.metu.edu.tr (Ersin Esen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] YUV player for Windows References: Message-ID: <003b01c228ae$f97b8ec0$36f77a90@bilten.metu.edu.tr> Ben, I dont get the point about that unwanted color space conversion for display purposes. Anyway, here's another YUV420 player for windows: http://www.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~eersin/perde.zip -ersin tosun.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~ersin > > Yes, I know of that. But it does an unwanted color space conversion to > RGB. I want to be able to convert to a YUV codec like Huffyuv or any of the > many QuickTime YUV authoring codecs without having to go to RGB. > From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Thu Jul 11 11:05:10 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] easy access to MPEG-4 Systems streams Message-ID: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC101B90138@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> > In order to provide easy access to MPEG-4 Systems conformance > streams, > here is a link to zip containers (limited to 10-12Mb max) containing > most of the Systems sequences. > > http://www.comelec.enst.fr/~dufourd/mpeg-4/streams.html > > THESE ARE MADE AVAILABLE WITHOUT GUARANTEE. > I do not commit to updating these packs each time a little stream is > fixed, and I do not commit to any quality of service or > durability. If > my systems engineer tells me this causes too much traffic, > I'll have to > remove them. Or to put them elsewhere ... Maybe M4IF has some facilities ? cu, O. From manu.batura patni.com Thu Jul 11 14:45:41 2002 From: manu.batura patni.com (Manu V Batura) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:26 2003 Subject: FW: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Video Encoder Testing Message-ID: <000001c228b3$27209920$5402a8c0@patni.com> For Technotes forum. Regards, Manu -----Original Message----- From: Manu V Batura [mailto:manu.batura@patni.com] Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2023 9:40 AM To: 'cloverleafland@hongkong.com' Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Video Encoder Testing Hi, We use available QCIF files (from internet but I guess digital video cameras with QCIF output should be suitable too). Take about 15-20 frames of interest. Manually generate the alpha planes using any suitable graphics software. Then test the encoder implementation. Its crude way of testing but ok for our needs. Regards, Manu -----Original Message----- From: cloverleafland@hongkong.com [mailto:cloverleafland@hongkong.com] Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2023 9:02 AM To: ; Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Video Encoder Testing Hello.... May I know how do you make the raw data? Regards, caca > Hi All, > > I wanted to know what would be the best way to test Video Encoder > Implementation. > Currently, we are using Reference Software Decoder provided by ISO to test > the implementations. > We make test streams of raw data, encode them through our encoder and try > and decode them through > reference decoders. Is it the only way possible? > > Is there a better way to test the implementation? > > Thanks & Regards, > Manu V Batura > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes ---------------------------------------------- ?w??????HongKong.com?l???t?? Thank you for using hongkong.com Email system From manu.batura patni.com Thu Jul 11 14:58:23 2002 From: manu.batura patni.com (Manu V Batura) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Video Encoder Testing Message-ID: <000101c228b4$ecd98d60$5402a8c0@patni.com> For Technotes forum. Regards, Manu -----Original Message----- From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2023 11:16 AM To: 'manu.batura@patni.com'; Rob Koenen Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Video Encoder Testing > But are the ISO provided Referebce Software (Microsoft & > Momusys) fully MPEG-4 standards compliant? The reference SW *IS* the standard (part 5 of MPEG-4 actually) and as such it is standards-compliant by definition. > I have heard that Microsoft provided MPEG-4 Codec is not fully > MPEG-4 standards compliant. Is that correct? There are some very minor discrepancies between the text (in the case of Visual, part 2) and the reference SW (part 5). These are being corrected as we write. Sometimes this requires an update in the text, sometimes in the SW. To the best of my knowledge, there is no reason to assume that the Microsoft version of the reference SW is more affected by these pesky little details than the MoMuSys part of it. Best, Rob From kraetzer dicas.de Thu Jul 11 11:47:16 2002 From: kraetzer dicas.de (Philipp Kraetzer) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences References: Message-ID: <007501c228b7$8fb5fcb0$c701a8c0@DORTMUND> Ben, mpegable Player (www.mpegable.com) plays also YUV 420 (and obviously mp4). Regards, Philipp Kraetzer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Waggoner" To: Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2023 8:59 AM Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences > Max, > > Yes, I know of that. But it does an unwanted color space conversion to > RGB. I want to be able to convert to a YUV codec like Huffyuv or any of the > many QuickTime YUV authoring codecs without having to go to RGB. > > Ben Waggoner > Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding > > Cleaner Tutorial: http://www.saferseas.com/navseries/adclean.html > My Book: http://www.benwaggoner.com/books.htm > Compression Books: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm > > Compression classes at Stanford, July 15-19 and August 12-16: > http://www.digitalmediaacademy.org/courses/videocompress.html > > > > > on 7/10/02 11:33 PM, Max Griessl at Max.Griessl@dynapel.de wrote: > > > With the Microsoft reference code there comes a small DOS utility yuvtoavi.exe > > which does a conversion from yuv to avi containing uncompressed RGB video. > > I am not aware of any other public available tools. > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From manu.batura patni.com Thu Jul 11 17:52:14 2002 From: manu.batura patni.com (Manu V Batura) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Video Encoder Testing In-Reply-To: <000101c228b4$ecd98d60$5402a8c0@patni.com> Message-ID: <000701c228cd$35da4960$5402a8c0@patni.com> We have found that both Microsoft and Momusys reference decoders are based on a previous version (or Working draft) of the standard (atleast with respect to marker bits to be specific). Here is the exact difference: The Video Object Plane part of syntax shows a marker bit after vop_vertical_mc_spatial_ref but the working draft as well as both reference softwares do not have this marker bit. Does anybody know about more such differences? It will help us know too. Regards, Manu -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Manu V Batura Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2023 1:58 PM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Video Encoder Testing For Technotes forum. Regards, Manu -----Original Message----- From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2023 11:16 AM To: 'manu.batura@patni.com'; Rob Koenen Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Video Encoder Testing > But are the ISO provided Referebce Software (Microsoft & > Momusys) fully MPEG-4 standards compliant? The reference SW *IS* the standard (part 5 of MPEG-4 actually) and as such it is standards-compliant by definition. > I have heard that Microsoft provided MPEG-4 Codec is not fully > MPEG-4 standards compliant. Is that correct? There are some very minor discrepancies between the text (in the case of Visual, part 2) and the reference SW (part 5). These are being corrected as we write. Sometimes this requires an update in the text, sometimes in the SW. To the best of my knowledge, there is no reason to assume that the Microsoft version of the reference SW is more affected by these pesky little details than the MoMuSys part of it. Best, Rob _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From Janne.Vehkapera vtt.fi Thu Jul 11 14:56:38 2002 From: Janne.Vehkapera vtt.fi (Janne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vehkaperä?=) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] .cmp to .mp4 software Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020711135606.00bb0b30@elemail.ele.vtt.fi> Hi, Does anyone know is there a software available which can make .mp4 files from .cmp files? Thanks, Janne From rkoenen intertrust.com Thu Jul 11 09:53:26 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] easy access to MPEG-4 Systems streams Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF5C8A@exchange.epr.com> This is great, thanks very much Jean-Claude! If your system engineers start complaining, let me know, and we will try and find an alternative solution. Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Jean-Claude Dufourd [mailto:Jean-Claude.Dufourd@enst.fr] > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2023 0:36 > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] easy access to MPEG-4 Systems streams > > > Dear all, > > In order to provide easy access to MPEG-4 Systems conformance > streams, > here is a link to zip containers (limited to 10-12Mb max) containing > most of the Systems sequences. > > http://www.comelec.enst.fr/~dufourd/mpeg-4/streams.html > > THESE ARE MADE AVAILABLE WITHOUT GUARANTEE. > I do not commit to updating these packs each time a little stream is > fixed, and I do not commit to any quality of service or > durability. If > my systems engineer tells me this causes too much traffic, > I'll have to > remove them. > > Best regards > JC > -- > Jean-Claude Dufourd @======================================@ > ENST, Dept COMELEC The wing, over the big rock... > 46, rue Barrault @======================================@ > 75013 Paris Tel: +33145817807 Fax: +33145804036 > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From Jean-Claude.Dufourd enst.fr Thu Jul 11 19:39:22 2002 From: Jean-Claude.Dufourd enst.fr (Jean-Claude Dufourd) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:26 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] .cmp to .mp4 software References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020711135606.00bb0b30@elemail.ele.vtt.fi> Message-ID: <3D2DB4BA.2000009@enst.fr> Janne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vehkaper??= wrote: > Does anyone know is there a software available which can make .mp4 files > from .cmp files? Either you want video + systems, or you want video only (like ISMA1.0). For video + systems, you can use mp4tool http://www.comelec.enst.fr/~dufourd/mpeg-4/tools For video without systems, you can use mpeg4ip tools http://mpeg4ip.sourceforge.net Best regards JC -- Jean-Claude Dufourd @======================================@ ENST, Dept COMELEC The wing, over the big rock... 46, rue Barrault @======================================@ 75013 Paris Tel: +33145817807 Fax: +33145804036 From khuber sorenson.com Thu Jul 11 13:31:37 2002 From: khuber sorenson.com (Kris Huber) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:27 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences Message-ID: <70A238C106788B49A1B7B46C050DEDFE228EBA@pandora.sorenson.com> Ben, >Another issue I have with the current test sequences is almost no >real-world apps can read the .yuv format, and there aren't any tools I know >of that can do a native colorspace conversion between .yuv and .mov or .avi. We have "ifdefs" in the code that dump and read these formats for internal conformance testing of our MPEG-4 products and to create/use m4if interop raw bitstreams as needed and to test using the MPEG4 conformance bitstreams as part of self-certification. I suppose if conformance testing were being done by an external organization we could make this capability available in a more user-friendly way. Apparently that capability is quite important to you? As for conversion out of raw .yuv, I know the .avi and .mov are quite flexible formats. Although I'm less familiar with them than I should be, my guess is that it's possible to convert from raw .yuv to either one without doing a redundant color conversion. I think it would depend on if anyone has registered a format for "raw YUV" for .mov and .avi. The problem with that is that not all YUV's are equal, some having come from RGB through somewhat different processes. In a raw YUV format you are on your own to know the color space and image resolution via external means. There are no headers. Some formats have one or more color spaces associated with them, although in actual usage the data in those formats are not always indicated or obeyed strictly. In the MPEG-4 visual object (VO) header the color space information can be encoded. Currently that information includes 6 choices of color primaries systems, 8 choices of opto-electronic transfer characteristic and 5 choices of colorspace conversion matrix (the one used to go from RGB to YCbCr), but there is ample reserved space to add more choices in the future as a need arises. You can find more on the specific choices that are currently available near the end of subclause 6.3.2 of the video spec (ISO/IEC 14496-2:2001). Best regards, Kris -----Original Message----- Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2023 18:42:38 -0700 Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences From: Ben Waggoner To: Rob Koenen , M4if CC: "Klaus Diepold (TU Munchen) (E-mail)" Rob, Excellent news on a standard set of images with clear rights. Another issue I have with the current test sequences is almost no real-world apps can read the .yuv format, and there aren't any tools I know of that can do a native colorspace conversion between .yuv and .mov or .avi. Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding Cleaner Tutorial: http://www.saferseas.com/navseries/adclean.html My Book: http://www.benwaggoner.com/books.htm Compression Books: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm Compression classes at Stanford, July 15-19 and August 12-16: http://www.digitalmediaacademy.org/courses/videocompress.html on 7/10/02 5:15 PM, Rob Koenen at rkoenen@intertrust.com wrote: > This is a problem and it has always been one. > > Test sequences belong to companies, not to MPEG, and there > was never a clear way of getting a hold of them, and it > is even murkier for which purpose they can be used within > constraints imposed by their owners a long time ago. > > To alleviate this problem, M4IF is working with the Technical > University in Munich, who are taking the initiative to shoot, and > make generally available for use in MPEG and M4IF, a series of > representative test sequences. > > This will not help you for now, though. > > If anyone on this list can help Ben get his hands on the sequences > often used in MPEG, then please speak up. From khuber sorenson.com Thu Jul 11 13:33:27 2002 From: khuber sorenson.com (Kris Huber) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:27 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] YUV player for Windows Message-ID: <70A238C106788B49A1B7B46C050DEDFE228EBB@pandora.sorenson.com> Ersin, I know of two reasons to keep color space conversion to a minimum: 1 - avoid wasting computations 2 - the "data processing inequality" - information is never increased by processing it (see textbook Elements of Information Theory by Cover and Thomas). So-called "denoising" or "noise removal" through filtering or more sophisticated data processing are not exceptions in my view. I prefer the perspective that the data processing inequality always holds, and "noise removal", etc., algorithms facilitate or enhance the communication of the information that the viewer typically extracts. No less information is contained in the noisy data, but less information may be received by the average person when he views the noisy data. In the case of color conversion and resampling from YUV 4:2:0 to RGB 4:4:4 then back to YUV 4:2:0, there is no reason to expect any enhancement of the presentation to come from this process, except perhaps some implementations that could do a low-pass filtering simultaneously that in some cases might lead to an enhanced compressed sequence. Normally such redundant color conversions will only add (probably not terribly significant) quantization and resolution conversion error. Maybe the greater risk is of exposing your processing chain to the possibility of mismatching or buggy colorspace/resampling conversions that do add significant errors. Best Regards, Kris -----Original Message----- From: "Ersin Esen" To: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2023 10:45:49 +0300 Organization: TUBiTAK Bilten Subject: [M4IF Technotes] YUV player for Windows Ben, I dont get the point about that unwanted color space conversion for display purposes. Anyway, here's another YUV420 player for windows: http://www.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~eersin/perde.zip -ersin tosun.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~ersin > > Yes, I know of that. But it does an unwanted color space conversion to > RGB. I want to be able to convert to a YUV codec like Huffyuv or any of the > many QuickTime YUV authoring codecs without having to go to RGB. > From ben interframemedia.com Thu Jul 11 12:45:15 2002 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:27 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences In-Reply-To: <70A238C106788B49A1B7B46C050DEDFE228EBA@pandora.sorenson.com> Message-ID: on 7/11/02 11:31 AM, Kris Huber at khuber@sorenson.com wrote: > We have "ifdefs" in the code that dump and read these formats for internal > conformance testing of our MPEG-4 products and to create/use m4if interop > raw bitstreams as needed and to test using the MPEG4 conformance bitstreams > as part of self-certification. I suppose if conformance testing were being > done by an external organization we could make this capability available in > a more user-friendly way. Apparently that capability is quite important to > you? It'd be very useful, but I'm a somewhat atypical customer. Still, if you already have the code working, it might make sense to enable .yuv as a source type in Squeeze. > As for conversion out of raw .yuv, I know the .avi and .mov are quite > flexible formats. Although I'm less familiar with them than I should be, my > guess is that it's possible to convert from raw .yuv to either one without > doing a redundant color conversion. I think it would depend on if anyone > has registered a format for "raw YUV" for .mov and .avi. The problem with > that is that not all YUV's are equal, some having come from RGB through > somewhat different processes. In a raw YUV format you are on your own to > know the color space and image resolution via external means. There are no > headers. Some formats have one or more color spaces associated with them, > although in actual usage the data in those formats are not always indicated > or obeyed strictly. In the MPEG-4 visual object (VO) header the color space > information can be encoded. Currently that information includes 6 choices > of color primaries systems, 8 choices of opto-electronic transfer > characteristic and 5 choices of colorspace conversion matrix (the one used > to go from RGB to YCbCr), but there is ample reserved space to add more > choices in the future as a need arises. You can find more on the specific > choices that are currently available near the end of subclause 6.3.2 of the > video spec (ISO/IEC 14496-2:2001). Indeed, it is a pretty trivial feature conceptually. It's just no one has actually built the tool yet. I believe QuickTime supports at lot of the same color space information. I think the "right" solution would be for Apple or someone else to write a QuickTime import component for .yuv, and make it part of the component download program. Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding Cleaner Tutorial: http://www.saferseas.com/navseries/adclean.html My Book: http://www.benwaggoner.com/books.htm Compression Books: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm Compression classes at Stanford, July 15-19 and August 12-16: http://www.digitalmediaacademy.org/courses/videocompress.html From t.jia eim.surrey.ac.uk Thu Jul 11 21:34:12 2002 From: t.jia eim.surrey.ac.uk (ees2tj) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:27 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] The parameter meaning of statistics file produced by Momusys Message-ID: <3D2DDDB4.44B67A71@eim.surrey.ac.uk> Dear All I am using the Momusys for MPEG-4 video coding. When this software has run, a file "encode.dat" is generated. In "encode.dat", there are parameters about "bits". There is less explanation about "bits" in readme file. That include "shape","motion","texture" "VOP" and "total". Sometimes the numbers of "shape", "motiom", "texture" and "VOP" add together is not equal to "total". Is there anyone kindly enough to give me a help and give me some explanation of those parameters meaning? Thanks -- T. Jia CVSSP University of Surrey Guildford Surrey GU2 7XH, UK email: t.jia@eim.surrey.ac.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020711/db95070b/attachment.html From olivier.amato laposte.net Fri Jul 12 16:33:49 2002 From: olivier.amato laposte.net (Olivier Amato) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:27 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences References: Message-ID: <012901c229a8$caa3eb60$3d360f50@beck> Ben, > I think the "right" solution would be for Apple or someone else to write > a QuickTime import component for .yuv, and make it part of the component > download program. Unfortunately, data in .yuv sequences are not always organized in the same way ... even for the same color space. Some are organized by planes and others mix YUV samples for each pixel. I don't know if there is an "official way" to produce .yuv sequences ( since there is no header and real file format ) !!?? Olivier From singer apple.com Fri Jul 12 09:41:51 2002 From: singer apple.com (Dave Singer) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:27 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences In-Reply-To: <012901c229a8$caa3eb60$3d360f50@beck> References: <012901c229a8$caa3eb60$3d360f50@beck> Message-ID: At 15:33 +0200 7/12/02, Olivier Amato wrote: >Ben, > >> I think the "right" solution would be for Apple or someone else to >write >> a QuickTime import component for .yuv, and make it part of the component >> download program. > >Unfortunately, data in .yuv sequences are not always organized in the same >way ... even for the same color space. Some are organized by planes and >others mix YUV samples for each pixel. I don't know if there is an "official >way" to produce .yuv sequences ( since there is no header and real file >format ) !!?? quite. when we have worked with them in QuickTime, we write one-off software that handles the format in question. Also, special handling of timing and size is usually needed (you generally hope to be told what the intended size and timing is, and have to input that manually somehow). We have all the codecs in QT (quite a few variants of YUV etc.) -- it's the reading/import process which is a little squidgy. -- David Singer Apple Computer/QuickTime From ben interframemedia.com Fri Jul 12 12:09:11 2002 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:27 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences In-Reply-To: <012901c229a8$caa3eb60$3d360f50@beck> Message-ID: Olivier, So, there really isn't a .yuv file format, then? Just a bunch of mutually incompatible formats with the same extension, and no programmatically way to discriminate between them. Well, in that case we should convert them all the the 2vuy QuickTime files or whatever and make THAT the de facto standard. The file format for those is fully public, and obviously familiar to MPEG-4 folks. And it would remove ambiguity and vastly increase the number of tools that can use the standard test sequences. Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding Cleaner Tutorial: http://www.saferseas.com/navseries/adclean.html My Book: http://www.benwaggoner.com/books.htm Compression Books: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm Compression classes at Stanford, July 15-19 and August 12-16: http://www.digitalmediaacademy.org/courses/videocompress.html on 7/12/02 6:33 AM, Olivier Amato at olivier.amato@laposte.net wrote: >> I think the "right" solution would be for Apple or someone else to > write >> a QuickTime import component for .yuv, and make it part of the component >> download program. > > Unfortunately, data in .yuv sequences are not always organized in the same > way ... even for the same color space. Some are organized by planes and > others mix YUV samples for each pixel. I don't know if there is an "official > way" to produce .yuv sequences ( since there is no header and real file > format ) !!?? From olivier.amato laposte.net Sat Jul 13 12:58:18 2002 From: olivier.amato laposte.net (Olivier Amato) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:27 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences References: Message-ID: <007501c22a53$d3cd6260$47a30b50@beck> Ben, > So, there really isn't a .yuv file format, then? Just a bunch of > mutually incompatible formats with the same extension, and no > programmatically way to discriminate between them. .yuv files are generally provided in the 4:2:0 color space and are plane oriented ( for each frame, all Y samples, then all U samples and finally all V samples ). There is no header ( so, no way to guess picture's width / height and frame rate ), only raw data with Y, U and V components of each frame stored consecutively. Each sequence is generally provided in 2 formats ( CIF and QCIF ) and sometimes you can find .cif and .qcif files' extensions to differentiate them ... But this is not always the case, sometimes .yuv files are stored in the 4:2:2 color space and each frame is organized by pixel, with each component stored consecutively ( as VQEG sequences for instance ). > Well, in that case we should convert them all the the 2vuy QuickTime > files or whatever and make THAT the de facto standard. The file format for > those is fully public, and obviously familiar to MPEG-4 folks. And it would > remove ambiguity and vastly increase the number of tools that can use the > standard test sequences. I totally agree, it would be much easier to get a real file format for video test sequences ... Olivier From guy.moreillon nagra.com Mon Jul 15 15:47:01 2002 From: guy.moreillon nagra.com (Moreillon Guy) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:27 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Quality measurement tool Message-ID: <4343D84FD316D511BC1500C0F05CC1DF6C3C92@isis.nagra-kudelski.ch> The Genista, or rather, Genimedia www.genimedia.com product measures quality in a manner that is close to human's subjective judgement, which gives quite different results from PSNR (at least that's what they say). -- Guy Moreillon -- Principal Engineer - New Solutions -- NagraVision, Switzerland -- mailto:guy.moreillon@nagra.com -- Tel: +41 21 732 04 47 -- -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, -- but in practice they are different (Larry McVoy) > -----Original Message----- > From: Olivier Amato [mailto:olivier.amato@laposte.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2023 9:25 AM > To: Corriveau, Philip J; technotes@lists.m4if.org > Cc: 'Arthur Webster' > Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Quality measurement tool > > > Philip, > > > If you have specific questions I can help you answer them. > > I'm also looking for some softwares to objectively measure quality of > encoded video. Are there some valuable methods right now ? > I've personally tested PSNR and Sarnoff's algorithms ( > JNDmetrix ) and I've > heard about Genista, but experts generally think these solutions don't > compete with good subjective testings ... > > Regards, > > Olivier Amato > > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From yrenjie sina.com Tue Jul 16 16:14:31 2002 From: yrenjie sina.com (yrenjie) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:27 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] need help Message-ID: <20020716071431.27737.qmail@sina.com> Hi Could someone tell me where can i download this document, ISO/IEC/JTC1/SC29/WG11 N2604"Report of the Formal Verification Tests on MPEG-4 video Error Resilience"? Regards Yu Renjie ______________________________________ =================================================================== ÐÂÀËÃâ·Ñµç×ÓÓÊÏä (http://mail.sina.com.cn) ÐÂÀË·ÖÀàÐÅÏ¢£º¶þÊÖÊг¡×ßÒ»×ߣ¬¸Ã³öÊÖʱ¾Í³öÊÖ£¡ (http://classad.sina.com.cn/2shou/) From rkoenen intertrust.com Tue Jul 16 01:23:02 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:27 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] need help Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF5D5A@exchange.epr.com> the answer is http://mpeg.telecomitalialab.com/quality_tests.htm Look under error resilience. Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: yrenjie [mailto:yrenjie@sina.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2023 0:15 > To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] need help > > > This message uses a character set that is not supported by > the Internet Service. To view the original message content, > open the attached message. If the text doesn't display > correctly, save the attachment to disk, and then open it > using a viewer that can display the original character set. > From sps iis.fhg.de Tue Jul 16 00:32:48 2002 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:27 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences References: <007501c22a53$d3cd6260$47a30b50@beck> Message-ID: <3D333F80.BFBB46BF@iis.fhg.de> Olivier Amato wrote: > > Ben, > > > So, there really isn't a .yuv file format, then? Just a bunch of > > mutually incompatible formats with the same extension, and no > > programmatically way to discriminate between them. > > .yuv files are generally provided in the 4:2:0 color space and are plane > oriented ( for each frame, all Y samples, then all U samples and finally all > V samples ). There is no header ( so, no way to guess picture's width / > height and frame rate ), only raw data with Y, U and V components of each > frame stored consecutively. Each sequence is generally provided in 2 formats > ( CIF and QCIF ) and sometimes you can find .cif and .qcif files' extensions > to differentiate them ... > But this is not always the case, sometimes .yuv files are stored in the > 4:2:2 color space and each frame is organized by pixel, with each component > stored consecutively ( as VQEG sequences for instance ). > > > Well, in that case we should convert them all the the 2vuy QuickTime > > files or whatever and make THAT the de facto standard. The file format > for > > those is fully public, and obviously familiar to MPEG-4 folks. And it > would > > remove ambiguity and vastly increase the number of tools that can use the > > standard test sequences. > > I totally agree, it would be much easier to get a real file format for video > test sequences ... > > Olivier Olivier, all, assuming you are talking mainly about MPEG-4 video test sequences: Is there anything that restricts the video community to use the MPEG-4 file format? behindern Best regards, Ralph -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS-A | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: sps.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 335 bytes Desc: Card for Ralph Sperschneider Url : /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020715/637c6cbe/sps.bin From gnitin noida.hcltech.com Tue Jul 16 18:23:41 2002 From: gnitin noida.hcltech.com (Nitin Gupta--DSP, Noida) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:28 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Short Video Header Message-ID: Hi all, I have some doubt regarding the short video header streams in Mpeg4. 1) There is a parameter in the video plane with short header "source format" which tells about the width & height of the plane represented by the video_plane_with_short_header. I want to know can this parameter change within a particular stream between different frames ?? 2) There is a parameter called "gob_frame_id" in the video plane with short header. The description given about this parameter in the standard 14496-2 on page no 129 is as follows :- **** gob_frame_id: This is a two bit field which is intended to help determine whether the data following a gob_resync_marker can be used in cases for which the vop header of the video_plane_with_short_header() may have been lost. gob_frame_id shall have the same value in every GOB header of a given video_plane_with_short_header(). Moreover, if any field among the split_screen_indicator or document_camera_indicator or full_picture_freeze_release or source_format or picture_coding_type as indicated in the header of a video_plane_with_short_header() is the same as for the previous transmitted picture in the same video object, gob_frame_id shall have the same value as in that previous video_plane_with_short_header(). However, if any of these fields in the header of a certain video_plane_with_short_header() differs from that in the previous transmitted video_plane_with_short_header() of the same video object, the value for gob_frame_id in that picture shall differ from the value in the previous picture. **** The last 2 statements seem to be confusing. Is the last statement enough for the description ?? Thanx for ur cooperation. Regards, Nitin. From sps iis.fhg.de Wed Jul 17 11:52:30 2002 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:28 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences References: <007501c22a53$d3cd6260$47a30b50@beck> <3D333F80.BFBB46BF@iis.fhg.de> Message-ID: <3D35304E.E5D42427@iis.fhg.de> Ralph Sperschneider wrote: > > Olivier Amato wrote: > > > > Ben, > > > > > So, there really isn't a .yuv file format, then? Just a bunch of > > > mutually incompatible formats with the same extension, and no > > > programmatically way to discriminate between them. > > > > .yuv files are generally provided in the 4:2:0 color space and are plane > > oriented ( for each frame, all Y samples, then all U samples and finally all > > V samples ). There is no header ( so, no way to guess picture's width / > > height and frame rate ), only raw data with Y, U and V components of each > > frame stored consecutively. Each sequence is generally provided in 2 formats > > ( CIF and QCIF ) and sometimes you can find .cif and .qcif files' extensions > > to differentiate them ... > > But this is not always the case, sometimes .yuv files are stored in the > > 4:2:2 color space and each frame is organized by pixel, with each component > > stored consecutively ( as VQEG sequences for instance ). > > > > > Well, in that case we should convert them all the the 2vuy QuickTime > > > files or whatever and make THAT the de facto standard. The file format > > for > > > those is fully public, and obviously familiar to MPEG-4 folks. And it > > would > > > remove ambiguity and vastly increase the number of tools that can use the > > > standard test sequences. > > > > I totally agree, it would be much easier to get a real file format for video > > test sequences ... > > > > Olivier > > Olivier, all, > > assuming you are talking mainly about MPEG-4 video test sequences: Is there anything that restricts the video community to use the MPEG-4 file format? Sorry for this misleading comment. The file format is of course not intended to store _uncompressed_ video data ;-) Best regards, Ralph -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS-A | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: sps.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 335 bytes Desc: Card for Ralph Sperschneider Url : /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020717/90b875dd/sps.bin From zhenzhongc hotmail.com Thu Jul 18 13:14:50 2002 From: zhenzhongc hotmail.com (Chen Zhenzhong) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:28 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I download then MPEG-4 Test Sequences with Mask? Message-ID: Thank you for your help. Regard, Chen Zhenzhong Centre of Multimedia and Network Technology BLK N4-02a-32, (CeMNet) School of Computer Engineering Nanyang Technological University Nanyang Avenue, 639798 Singapore -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020718/144799d3/attachment.html From rkoenen intertrust.com Wed Jul 17 22:53:06 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:28 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I download then MPEG-4 Test Sequen ces with Mask? Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59011B336E@exchange.epr.com> This is a FAQ ... The availability of video test sequences is murky. The rights are unclear. Some M4IF members are in the process of making new ones, to be generally available for non-commercial use. I do not know whether these include masks; it is an interesting question. Klaus? Rob -----Original Message----- From: Chen Zhenzhong [mailto:zhenzhongc@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2023 21:15 To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I download then MPEG-4 Test Sequences with Mask? Thank you for your help. Regard, Chen Zhenzhong Centre of Multimedia and Network Technology BLK N4-02a-32, (CeMNet) School of Computer Engineering Nanyang Technological University Nanyang Avenue, 639798 Singapore -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020717/ae771e71/attachment.html From kldi ei.tum.de Thu Jul 18 10:48:45 2002 From: kldi ei.tum.de (Klaus Diepold) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:28 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I download then MPEG-4 Test Sequences with Mask? References: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59011B336E@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: <008a01c22e2f$8f0f4b40$6469bb81@ldv.etechnik.tumuenchen.de> Masks have not been considered so far. However, the process of collecting requirements and putting together a kind of wish list is not yet finalized. We have submitted the proposal for producing test sequences to the upcoming MPEG meeting in Klagenfurt. The purpose of the submission is to solicit technical input from the coding experts. This input shall also help to shape the test sequences in a way that makes it highly usable and acceptable for all sorts of acitivities in the MPEG arena. So, if there is a request to supply masks, which I interpret as segmentation masks for arbitrarily shaped video objects, then I would invite parties to specify as detailed as possible what the requests and requirements are. We will subsequently analyze how much of the wish list can be achieved given the time and budget constraints under which we all live. Interested parties can either speak up in Klagenfurt and address directly my colleage Tobias Oelbaum (Oelbaum@ei.tuim.de) or send email to me directly (kldi@ei.tum.de). (This is not to understood as any sort of committment that the final result will provide masks, but we do what we can.) Cheers Klaus This message has been entirely written with recycled electrons ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof. Dr.-Ing. Klaus Diepold Munich University of Technology, Department of Electrical Engineering Institute for Data Processing, Arcisstr. 21, D-80290 Munich T: +49 (0)89 289 23602, F: +49 (0)89 289 23600, M: +49 (0)179 202 1970 Email: kldi@ei.tum.de, Web: http://www.ldv.ei.tum.de ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Koenen To: 'Chen Zhenzhong' ; Technotes@lists.m4if.org Cc: Klaus Diepold (TU Munchen) (E-mail) Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2023 6:53 AM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I download then MPEG-4 Test Sequences with Mask? This is a FAQ ... The availability of video test sequences is murky. The rights are unclear. Some M4IF members are in the process of making new ones, to be generally available for non-commercial use. I do not know whether these include masks; it is an interesting question. Klaus? Rob -----Original Message----- From: Chen Zhenzhong [mailto:zhenzhongc@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2023 21:15 To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I download then MPEG-4 Test Sequences with Mask? Thank you for your help. Regard, Chen Zhenzhong Centre of Multimedia and Network Technology BLK N4-02a-32, (CeMNet) School of Computer Engineering Nanyang Technological University Nanyang Avenue, 639798 Singapore -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020718/848e0666/attachment.html From rkoenen intertrust.com Thu Jul 18 10:20:47 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:28 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I download then MPEG-4 Test Sequen ces with Mask? Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59011B3389@exchange.epr.com> Klaus, all if you put the content in the public domain (i.e., we make it available against reproduction cost) then perhaps some other parties can contribute masks, sort of as an "open resource" activity. You don't necessarily have to do all the work yourself. Rob -----Original Message----- From: Klaus Diepold [mailto:kldi@ei.tum.de] Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2023 0:49 To: Rob Koenen; 'Chen Zhenzhong'; Technotes@lists.m4if.org Cc: Tobias Oelbaum Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I download then MPEG-4 Test Sequences with Mask? Masks have not been considered so far. However, the process of collecting requirements and putting together a kind of wish list is not yet finalized. We have submitted the proposal for producing test sequences to the upcoming MPEG meeting in Klagenfurt. The purpose of the submission is to solicit technical input from the coding experts. This input shall also help to shape the test sequences in a way that makes it highly usable and acceptable for all sorts of acitivities in the MPEG arena. So, if there is a request to supply masks, which I interpret as segmentation masks for arbitrarily shaped video objects, then I would invite parties to specify as detailed as possible what the requests and requirements are. We will subsequently analyze how much of the wish list can be achieved given the time and budget constraints under which we all live. Interested parties can either speak up in Klagenfurt and address directly my colleage Tobias Oelbaum ( Oelbaum@ei.tuim.de ) or send email to me directly ( kldi@ei.tum.de ). (This is not to understood as any sort of committment that the final result will provide masks, but we do what we can.) Cheers Klaus This message has been entirely written with recycled electrons ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- Prof. Dr.-Ing. Klaus Diepold Munich University of Technology, Department of Electrical Engineering Institute for Data Processing, Arcisstr. 21, D-80290 Munich T: +49 (0)89 289 23602, F: +49 (0)89 289 23600, M: +49 (0)179 202 1970 Email: kldi@ei.tum.de , Web: http://www.ldv.ei.tum.de ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Koenen To: 'Chen Zhenzhong' ; Technotes@lists.m4if.org Cc: Klaus Diepold (TU Munchen) (E-mail) Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2023 6:53 AM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I download then MPEG-4 Test Sequences with Mask? This is a FAQ ... The availability of video test sequences is murky. The rights are unclear. Some M4IF members are in the process of making new ones, to be generally available for non-commercial use. I do not know whether these include masks; it is an interesting question. Klaus? Rob -----Original Message----- From: Chen Zhenzhong [mailto:zhenzhongc@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2023 21:15 To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I download then MPEG-4 Test Sequences with Mask? Thank you for your help. Regard, Chen Zhenzhong Centre of Multimedia and Network Technology BLK N4-02a-32, (CeMNet) School of Computer Engineering Nanyang Technological University Nanyang Avenue, 639798 Singapore -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020718/c1617c6b/attachment.html From shivakumar asu.edu Thu Jul 18 12:25:20 2002 From: shivakumar asu.edu (Shivakumar Narayanan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:29 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I download then MPEG-4 Test Sequen ces with Mask? References: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59011B3389@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: <000f01c22e88$79a0b380$b620a995@lsbkumarpc25> Hi all, Some masks are available at ftp://ftp.tnt.uni-hannover.de/pub/MPEG/mpeg4_masks/ and some yuv sequences are available at http://meru.cecs.missouri.edu/free_download/videos/ . FYI Regards, Shiva ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Koenen To: 'Klaus Diepold' ; Rob Koenen ; 'Chen Zhenzhong' ; Technotes@lists.m4if.org Cc: Tobias Oelbaum Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2023 9:20 AM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I download then MPEG-4 Test Sequen ces with Mask? Klaus, all if you put the content in the public domain (i.e., we make it available against reproduction cost) then perhaps some other parties can contribute masks, sort of as an "open resource" activity. You don't necessarily have to do all the work yourself. Rob -----Original Message----- From: Klaus Diepold [mailto:kldi@ei.tum.de] Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2023 0:49 To: Rob Koenen; 'Chen Zhenzhong'; Technotes@lists.m4if.org Cc: Tobias Oelbaum Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I download then MPEG-4 Test Sequences with Mask? Masks have not been considered so far. However, the process of collecting requirements and putting together a kind of wish list is not yet finalized. We have submitted the proposal for producing test sequences to the upcoming MPEG meeting in Klagenfurt. The purpose of the submission is to solicit technical input from the coding experts. This input shall also help to shape the test sequences in a way that makes it highly usable and acceptable for all sorts of acitivities in the MPEG arena. So, if there is a request to supply masks, which I interpret as segmentation masks for arbitrarily shaped video objects, then I would invite parties to specify as detailed as possible what the requests and requirements are. We will subsequently analyze how much of the wish list can be achieved given the time and budget constraints under which we all live. Interested parties can either speak up in Klagenfurt and address directly my colleage Tobias Oelbaum (Oelbaum@ei.tuim.de) or send email to me directly (kldi@ei.tum.de). (This is not to understood as any sort of committment that the final result will provide masks, but we do what we can.) Cheers Klaus This message has been entirely written with recycled electrons ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof. Dr.-Ing. Klaus Diepold Munich University of Technology, Department of Electrical Engineering Institute for Data Processing, Arcisstr. 21, D-80290 Munich T: +49 (0)89 289 23602, F: +49 (0)89 289 23600, M: +49 (0)179 202 1970 Email: kldi@ei.tum.de, Web: http://www.ldv.ei.tum.de ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Koenen To: 'Chen Zhenzhong' ; Technotes@lists.m4if.org Cc: Klaus Diepold (TU Munchen) (E-mail) Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2023 6:53 AM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I download then MPEG-4 Test Sequences with Mask? This is a FAQ ... The availability of video test sequences is murky. The rights are unclear. Some M4IF members are in the process of making new ones, to be generally available for non-commercial use. I do not know whether these include masks; it is an interesting question. Klaus? Rob -----Original Message----- From: Chen Zhenzhong [mailto:zhenzhongc@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2023 21:15 To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I download then MPEG-4 Test Sequences with Mask? Thank you for your help. Regard, Chen Zhenzhong Centre of Multimedia and Network Technology BLK N4-02a-32, (CeMNet) School of Computer Engineering Nanyang Technological University Nanyang Avenue, 639798 Singapore -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020718/417ff7ab/attachment.html From fp lx.it.pt Thu Jul 18 20:42:35 2002 From: fp lx.it.pt (Fernando Pereira) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:29 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Finally ... THE MPEG-4 BOOK ! Message-ID: <3D370C1B.1877C38D@lx.it.pt> NEW !!!!!!! Now available ! THE MPEG-4 BOOK Edited by Fernando Pereira & Touradj Ebrahimi Published by Prentice Hall PTR http://www.phptr.com/ptrbooks/ptr_0130616214.html MPEG-4 represents a breakthrough in multimedia, delivering not just outstanding compression but also a fully interactive user experience. In THE MPEG-4 BOOK, two leaders of the MPEG-4 standards community offer a comprehensive, targeted guide to the MPEG-4 standard - and its use in cutting-edge applications. Fernando Pereira and Touradj Ebrahimi, together with a unique collection of key MPEG experts, demonstrate how MPEG-4 addresses tomorrow's multimedia applications more successfully than any previous standard. They review every element of the standard to offer you a book that covers: o Synthetic and natural audio and video object coding, description and synchronization o BIFS-the MPEG-4 language for scene description and interaction o The extensible MPEG-4 textual format XMT o Transport and delivery of MPEG-4 content o MPEG-J: using Java classes within MPEG-4 content o A complete overview of MPEG-4 Profiles and Levels o Verification tests The authors also walk through the MPEG-4 Systems Reference Software offering powerful real-world insights for every product developer, software professional, engineer, and researcher involved with MPEG-4 and state-of-the-art multimedia delivery. -- Fernando Manuel Bernardo Pereira, Ph.D., Professor Instituto Superior T?cnico - Instituto de Telecomunica??es Av. Rovisco Pais, 1049-001 Lisboa, PORTUGAL Phone: + 351 21 8418460 Fax: + 351 21 8418472 E-mail: Fernando.Pereira@lx.it.pt WWW: http://www.img.lx.it.pt/~fp/ From rkoenen intertrust.com Thu Jul 18 13:05:47 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:29 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: Finally ... THE MPEG-4 BOOK ! Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59011B339E@exchange.epr.com> Please note that M4IF has struck a deal with Prentice Hall, to make this book, which is a long-awaited standard reference for MPEG-4, available at a discount to its visitors and members. M4IF visitors receive a 10% discount, and members a 20% discount, recognizing the effort by many M4IF members to getting this book written. While the pages are still being built, the 10% discount offer is already available at the link Fernando provided below. Members have to practice a few more days of patience (unless they are willing to settle for 10% :-). See http://www.phptr.com/ptrbooks/ptr_0130616214.html for the offer. This is a good moment to thank the editors, Touradj Ebrahimi and notably Fernando Pereira (who spent many many weekends and nights) for completing this huge and extremely important task. Your reward will be in the large readership for this Reference Book. Also all the authors are to be thanked. They do not expect any financial compensation, but have committed to this task to evangelize what they believe is important - an open and interoperable multimedia ecosystem. Having been involved in the production of this book, I can highly recommend it to anyone who wants to go beyond reading the standard itself (or to those who don't even want to try :-). Kind Regards, Rob Koenen President, M4IF > -----Original Message----- > From: Fernando Pereira [mailto:fp@lx.it.pt] > Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2023 11:43 > To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org; M4IF news (E-mail) > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Finally ... THE MPEG-4 BOOK ! > > > > NEW !!!!!!! Now available ! > > > THE MPEG-4 BOOK > > Edited by Fernando Pereira & Touradj Ebrahimi > Published by Prentice Hall PTR > > http://www.phptr.com/ptrbooks/ptr_0130616214.html > > MPEG-4 represents a breakthrough in multimedia, delivering not just > outstanding compression but also a fully interactive user > experience. In > THE MPEG-4 BOOK, two leaders > of the MPEG-4 standards community offer a comprehensive, > targeted guide > to the MPEG-4 standard - and its use in cutting-edge applications. > > Fernando Pereira and Touradj Ebrahimi, together with a unique > collection of key MPEG experts, demonstrate how MPEG-4 addresses > tomorrow's multimedia applications more successfully than any previous > standard. They review every element of the standard to offer > you a book > that covers: > > o Synthetic and natural audio and video object coding, > description and synchronization > o BIFS-the MPEG-4 language for scene description > and interaction > o The extensible MPEG-4 textual format XMT > o Transport and delivery of MPEG-4 content > o MPEG-J: using Java classes within MPEG-4 content > o A complete overview of MPEG-4 Profiles and Levels > o Verification tests > > The authors also walk through the MPEG-4 Systems Reference Software > offering powerful real-world insights for every product developer, > software professional, engineer, and researcher involved with > MPEG-4 and > state-of-the-art multimedia delivery. > > -- > Fernando Manuel Bernardo Pereira, Ph.D., Professor > Instituto Superior T?cnico - Instituto de Telecomunica??es > Av. Rovisco Pais, 1049-001 Lisboa, PORTUGAL > Phone: + 351 21 8418460 Fax: + 351 21 8418472 > E-mail: Fernando.Pereira@lx.it.pt WWW: http://www.img.lx.it.pt/~fp/ > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From Giuliano.Catrambone h3g.it Fri Jul 19 17:50:54 2002 From: Giuliano.Catrambone h3g.it (Catrambone Giuliano) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:29 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Udta atom Message-ID: <3BC45A5454A0AB45BA2226B97564B47C028814F6@MISRVEXCH0001.north.h3g.it> Hi, I have one question, did anyone read in ISO any restrictions about puting proprietary atoms in udta? rgds giuliano -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020719/06aa3876/attachment.html From julien resonate-mp4.com Fri Jul 19 18:40:42 2002 From: julien resonate-mp4.com (Julien Boeuf) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:29 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Udta atom References: <3BC45A5454A0AB45BA2226B97564B47C028814F6@MISRVEXCH0001.north.h3g.it> Message-ID: <000f01c22f3a$a4b83720$0300a8c0@herreweghe> Hi, I don't think so, as long as your atom signatures are not the same as some already registered by ISO or ISMA for example... ISO uses 'cprt' for copyright ISMA uses 'name', 'hnti', 'hinf' if I'm not mistaken... Some others could be normalized to store metadata like the name of the artist, name of the song (in case of audio) etc.. It would prevent people to use horrible ID3V2 tags. QuickTime has already defined these kind of signatures. Julien. ----- Original Message ----- From: Catrambone Giuliano To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org Sent: Friday, July 19, 2023 4:50 PM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Udta atom Hi, I have one question, did anyone read in ISO any restrictions about puting proprietary atoms in udta? rgds giuliano -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020719/275441b2/attachment.html From singer apple.com Fri Jul 19 12:57:12 2002 From: singer apple.com (Dave Singer) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:29 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Udta atom In-Reply-To: <000f01c22f3a$a4b83720$0300a8c0@herreweghe> References: <3BC45A5454A0AB45BA2226B97564B47C028814F6@MISRVEXCH0001.north.h3g.it> <000f01c22f3a$a4b83720$0300a8c0@herreweghe> Message-ID: The best approach if your data is specific to you is to use UUID atoms. For shared meta-data, we will be discussing approaches in the next meeting. At 17:40 +0200 7/19/02, Julien Boeuf wrote: >Hi, > >I don't think so, as long as your atom signatures are not the same >as some already registered by ISO or ISMA for example... > >ISO uses 'cprt' for copyright >ISMA uses 'name', 'hnti', 'hinf' if I'm not mistaken... > >Some others could be normalized to store metadata like the name of >the artist, name of the song (in case of audio) etc.. It would >prevent people to use horrible ID3V2 tags. QuickTime has already >defined these kind of signatures. > > Julien. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Catrambone Giuliano >To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org >Sent: Friday, July 19, 2023 4:50 PM >Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Udta atom > >Hi, > I have one question, > did anyone read in ISO any restrictions about puting proprietary >atoms in udta? > > rgds > giuliano > -- David Singer Apple Computer/QuickTime -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020719/bff2adb3/attachment.html From yrenjie sina.com Sat Jul 20 11:18:07 2002 From: yrenjie sina.com (yrenjie) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:29 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MS mpeg4 decoder Message-ID: <20020720021807.18911.qmail@sina.com> Dear all: I find the compiled decoder will crash when it encounters errors. Why?Because it has no error resilience functions? Is there other decoder can avoid this problem? Is it difficult to solve it by myself?because i have no too many time. Are there documents about this problem? Can your give me some suggestions? Best Regards Yu Renjie ______________________________________ =================================================================== ÐÂÀËÃâ·Ñµç×ÓÓÊÏä (http://mail.sina.com.cn) ÐÂÀË·ÖÀàÐÅÏ¢£º¶þÊÖÊг¡×ßÒ»×ߣ¬¸Ã³öÊÖʱ¾Í³öÊÖ£¡ (http://classad.sina.com.cn/2shou/) From rkoenen intertrust.com Fri Jul 19 21:58:14 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:29 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MS mpeg4 decoder Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59011B3403@exchange.epr.com> Response of the decoder to errors is not normatively defined in the standard. Therefore it is not in ther reference sw either. Please do not expect ISO participants (including microsoft) to provide you with optimized software (and hence, with their trade secrets). THe reference SW is a non-optimal example implementation of the standard, nothing less, but also nothing more. There is a lot of literature around on error resilience; I kindl suggest that you check that out. Best, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: yrenjie [mailto:yrenjie@sina.com] > Sent: Friday, July 19, 2023 19:18 > To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MS mpeg4 decoder > > > This message uses a character set that is not supported by > the Internet Service. To view the original message content, > open the attached message. If the text doesn't display > correctly, save the attachment to disk, and then open it > using a viewer that can display the original character set. > From cloverleafland hongkong.com Sun Jul 21 16:41:29 2002 From: cloverleafland hongkong.com (cloverleafland@hongkong.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:30 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: testing tools Message-ID: May I know is there any tools that helps testing the quality of a MPEG 4 encoder? I heard about one called "iprof"... but can't find site that can download. Would there be any other tools and where and how can I get it to use? Thanks all... Caca ---------------------------------------------- Åwªï¨Ï¥ÎHongKong.com¶l¥ó¨t²Î Thank you for using hongkong.com Email system From chl math.uni-bonn.de Sun Jul 21 11:55:53 2002 From: chl math.uni-bonn.de (Christoph Lampert) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:30 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Timing code in mpeg4 bitstream Message-ID: Hi, I'm getting crazy over this stuff, but maybe you can give me a quick answer: Consider a stream of GOP IBBPBBPBBP... which have a length of up to 200 frames until the next I-frame. vop_fixed_time is set and for simplicity let's assume that it's plain 25fps, so vop_time_increment_resolution is 25 and fixed_vop_time_increment is 1. How am I supposed to set the time flags in the frames? Is modulo_time_base supposed to go from 0 to 7 1-bits (=200/25) while vop_time_increment varies from 0 to 24 ? So frames are simply numbered by their time/position? Or is there something else to consider? Christoph Lampert -- Christoph H. Lampert chl@math.uni-bonn.de | Diese Signature wurde maschi- Beringstr. 6, Raum 14 Tel. (0228) 73-2948 | nell erstellt und bedarf Sprechstunden: keine, aber meistens da | keiner Unterschrift. AZ 27B-6 From st018487 ait.ac.th Mon Jul 22 18:25:43 2002 From: st018487 ait.ac.th (Suthinee Thanapirom) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:30 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I get stereo video sequences. Message-ID: <00af01c2316a$2e4b81f0$47129fcb@tc04> Hi all, I'm now working on stereo coding based on mpeg-4. I try to find stereo video sequences. Can anyone tell me where I can find it? Thank you for your help. Best regards, Suthinee Thanapirom Asian Institute of Technology Email: st018487@ait.ac.th or suthinee_t@hotmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020722/710486fb/attachment.html From rbleidt hdtv.com Mon Jul 22 15:41:31 2002 From: rbleidt hdtv.com (Robert Bleidt) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:30 2003 Subject: Test Pattern, YUV converter, Re: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences In-Reply-To: <003501c228a7$251e2fe0$47a30b50@beck> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020722142153.037a8008@pop3.norton.antivirus> I've posted a conversion tool to take yuv sequences like those from VQEG and make AVI files at www.streamcrest.com - click on the "MPEG-4 Information" button. It will output AVIs in either UYVY yuv format (which is absolutely transparent) or in RGB. You should be careful when using a yuv AVI file, as almost all tools on the PC will try to read it using the msyuv.dll codec. For some reason, the version of this DLL supplied with Win2000 only does a 16-bit conversion to RGB, which is the internal format of many PC tools. So by using the most transparent mode for converting the sequence, I inadvertently cored it to five bits per pixel. I then used RGB for my work, but I hear that WinXP ships a new version of msyuv.dll that maintains full precision. I felt a little more comfortable using my transcoding than Microsoft's, since I know what's happening. This program uses linear interpolation of adjacent pixels to get the missing chroma samples, R 656 color space, and 32-bit integer arithmetic with rounding. If anyone is interested, I can send you the source to the transcoding routine. There's also a program posted that makes a standard test pattern I've used. There's no great science behind it, but it's easily portable - download an 100KB .exe and run it. It may look like a torture-test from the web site picture - but a look at the Q values on several MPEG-2 encoders shows it's substantially "easier" than mobile and calendar. At 08:49 AM 7/11/2023 +0200, you wrote: >Ben, > > > Another issue I have with the current test sequences is almost no > > real-world apps can read the .yuv format, > >I know 2 players for .yuv files. One is available on line ( >http://thanglong.ece.jhu.edu/Course/643/YUVplayer.exe ) and I can send you >the other directly if you need to. > > > and there aren't any tools I know > > of that can do a native colorspace conversion between .yuv and .mov or >.avi. > >For .yuv to .avi conversion, I generally use Microsoft's tool ( >yuvtoavi.exe ). There is also another tool with GUI ( >http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/S.Worrall/dloads/yuv2avi.zip ), but I >had some strange results ( washed colors ) when I tested it a while ago. The >same author ( s.worrall@eim.surrey.ac.uk ) also provided a very useful tool >to convert VQEG's YUV 4:2:2 files to AVI. This is the only one I found. > >Regards, > >Olivier Amato > > > >_______________________________________________ >Technotes mailing list >Technotes@lists.m4if.org >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes Robert Bleidt - Image Circuits, Inc. - rbleidt@hdtv.com From rkoenen intertrust.com Mon Jul 22 19:02:58 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:30 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I get stereo video sequences. Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59011B3444@exchange.epr.com> I am not aware of any. There was never a real effort to address stereo video in MPEG-4. Rob -----Original Message----- From: Suthinee Thanapirom [mailto:st018487@ait.ac.th] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2023 3:26 To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I get stereo video sequences. Hi all, I'm now working on stereo coding based on mpeg-4. I try to find stereo video sequences. Can anyone tell me where I can find it? Thank you for your help. Best regards, Suthinee Thanapirom Asian Institute of Technology Email: st018487@ait.ac.th or suthinee_t@hotmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020722/65195447/attachment.html From ghughes tardis.com Tue Jul 23 00:33:45 2002 From: ghughes tardis.com (Gary Hughes) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:30 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF News] RE: Finally ... THE MPEG-4 BOOK ! In-Reply-To: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59011B339E@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020722231209.0520e0c8@localhost> At 12:05 PM 7/18/2002 -0700, Rob Koenen wrote: >Please note that M4IF has struck a deal with Prentice Hall, to >make this book, which is a long-awaited standard reference for >MPEG-4, available at a discount to its visitors and members. FWIW, I picked up a copy at Barnes & Noble for $63 ($70 before the "Readers' Advantage" discount). >Having been involved in the production of this book, I can highly >recommend it to anyone who wants to go beyond reading the standard >itself (or to those who don't even want to try :-). I've only had an hour or so to browse it so far, but it looks very impressive. gary Gary Hughes (ghughes@tardis.com) Stargate Video Systems From rkoenen intertrust.com Mon Jul 22 22:45:37 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:30 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF News] RE: Finally ... THE MPEG-4 BOOK ! Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59011B3450@exchange.epr.com> Thanks Gary! In fact, I sent a note to the technotes list about the B&N price, and we also link to the 30% discount offer from here: http://www.m4if.org/products/book.php It appears to be a summer special or something. Use it while you can ... Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Hughes [mailto:ghughes@tardis.com] > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2023 20:34 > To: Rob Koenen; Technotes@lists.m4if.org; M4IF news (E-mail) > Subject: Re: [M4IF News] RE: Finally ... THE MPEG-4 BOOK ! > > > At 12:05 PM 7/18/2002 -0700, Rob Koenen wrote: > >Please note that M4IF has struck a deal with Prentice Hall, to > >make this book, which is a long-awaited standard reference for > >MPEG-4, available at a discount to its visitors and members. > > FWIW, I picked up a copy at Barnes & Noble for $63 ($70 before the > "Readers' Advantage" discount). > > >Having been involved in the production of this book, I can highly > >recommend it to anyone who wants to go beyond reading the standard > >itself (or to those who don't even want to try :-). > > I've only had an hour or so to browse it so far, but it looks very > impressive. > > gary > > Gary Hughes (ghughes@tardis.com) > Stargate Video Systems > > From gnitin noida.hcltech.com Tue Jul 23 12:02:33 2002 From: gnitin noida.hcltech.com (Nitin Gupta--DSP, Noida) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:30 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MS mpeg4 decoder Message-ID: Hi all, I also have few lines to add to this .. though i fully support that the response of various decoders to errors in the bitstreams can vary from one to the other .. but at least every decoder should be able to decode all the conformance streams provided by ISO .. the conformance streams i m talking of are described in the table 4-5, 4-6, 4-7, 4-8, & 4-9 of ISO/IEC 14496-4:2000(E). But the MS decoder explicitly fails to decode some streams flagging an error that actually is not present in those bitstreams. Those bitstreams are on page 57 of ISO/IEC 14496-4:2000(E) in the table 4-8. These are extracted from the ISO CD from the following file: \Visual\Natural\Simple\short.zip. They are 1. short\mit021.m4v 2. short\mit022.m4v 3. short\mit023.m4v 4. short\mit024.m4v As these bitstreams are provided by ISO, i presume them to be totally error free. Moreover i myself have deocoded them by some other deocoder that decodes these bitstreams without flagging any error, thus conforming that they are totally correct. That is all i have to say. Thanx for the time of all. Regards, Nitin. -----Original Message----- From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2023 9:28 AM To: 'yrenjie'; Technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] MS mpeg4 decoder Response of the decoder to errors is not normatively defined in the standard. Therefore it is not in ther reference sw either. Please do not expect ISO participants (including microsoft) to provide you with optimized software (and hence, with their trade secrets). THe reference SW is a non-optimal example implementation of the standard, nothing less, but also nothing more. There is a lot of literature around on error resilience; I kindl suggest that you check that out. Best, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: yrenjie [mailto:yrenjie@sina.com] > Sent: Friday, July 19, 2023 19:18 > To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MS mpeg4 decoder > > > This message uses a character set that is not supported by > the Internet Service. To view the original message content, > open the attached message. If the text doesn't display > correctly, save the attachment to disk, and then open it > using a viewer that can display the original character set. > _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From rkoenen intertrust.com Tue Jul 23 00:00:26 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:30 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: testing tools Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59011B3457@exchange.epr.com> If you are referring to image quality, look at www.vqeg.org (sometimes that site is a bit slow to respond, can give error messages but do keep trying). You won't find actual tools but you will find some information. That said, be careful: human evaluation of picture quality is still far superior than a model that is supposed to replace subjective tests, although models have started to beat SNR in their predictive power. Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: cloverleafland@hongkong.com [mailto:cloverleafland@hongkong.com] > Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2023 0:41 > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: testing tools > > > May I know is there any tools that helps testing the quality > of a MPEG 4 encoder? > I heard about one called "iprof"... but can't find site that > can download. > Would there be any other tools and where and how can I get it to use? > > Thanks all... > > Caca > ---------------------------------------------- > ?w??????HongKong.com?l???t?? > Thank you for using hongkong.com Email system > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From singer apple.com Tue Jul 23 05:30:41 2002 From: singer apple.com (Dave Singer) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:30 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Downloadable standard MPEG test sequences in QT6 format In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020722142153.037a8008@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020722142153.037a8008@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: I have converted some of the sequences into QuickTime Movies, simply importing the YUV. QT6 exposes a YUV codec, and so the movie declares this as the coding format for the video. This should enable people to make a variety of files or re-encodings of this content. QT6 is required (now available, and includes MPEG-4 support). The sequences I have converted are at . I'm working on making the tool more available. -- David Singer Apple Computer/QuickTime From moses kampsax.dtu.dk Tue Jul 23 16:32:59 2002 From: moses kampsax.dtu.dk (moses) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:30 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] phd Message-ID: <001b01c2324d$76fa4920$5fd726c0@Mebrat> Hi all I'm looking for phd program on MPEG-4 Error resilience and Channel codeing. I'd appreciate it, if you could forward this email to any company or university. I am currently graduating student of master thesis in telecommunication software engineer at COM DTU. My primary interest is in the development of software systems, which involves a knowledge system programming, signal and image processing (JPEG, JPEG2000, MPEG-4) error resilience and channel coding. If you have any questions, please contact me at +45-77426419 or by email. Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you. Yours sincerely Moses (Mussie) <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Your Brain is Hungry Wireless Networks Technology, News and Opinion <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020723/92e99310/attachment.html From bdipert pacbell.net Tue Jul 23 19:23:45 2002 From: bdipert pacbell.net (Brian Dipert) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:30 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Beware Message-ID: <002e01c232b0$c14ee040$0101a8c0@BrianDipert> Umm...David. I also used the University of Hannover/MPEG-4 test sequences in my video compression hands-on project, due to go live Thursday morning at www.edn.com (any and all feedback welcomed). Leonardo Chiariglione (yes, THAT Leonardo) from the MPEG standards group was VERY emphatic (Rob'll back me up on this) that I NOT post either the original YUVs or any lossless- or even lossy-compressed variants of them to a public website, since (as you point out on your http://index.apple.com/~singer/sequences/testseq.html website) they're copyright-protected. Note that the area of the Hannover FTP site where the originals reside is password-protected; only for use by MPEG members. Just thought I'd let you know that an angry Italian may soon be headed your way. Conversely, if you secure permission rights......please let me know, as I'd like to post my stuff too! ============================== Brian Dipert Technical Editor: Mass Storage, Memory, Multimedia, PC Core Logic and Peripherals, and Programmable Logic EDN Magazine: http://www.edn.com Contributing Editor, CommVerge Magazine: http://www.commvergemag.com 1864 52nd Street Sacramento, CA 95819 (916) 454-5242 (voice), (916) 454-5101 (fax) mailto:bdipert@edn.com Visit me at http://www.bdipert.com From bdipert pacbell.net Tue Jul 23 19:30:04 2002 From: bdipert pacbell.net (Brian Dipert) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:31 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: Beware Message-ID: <002f01c232b1$a32b0160$0101a8c0@BrianDipert> Followup; after visting Stephan's site at http://kbs.cs.tu-berlin.de/~stewe/vceg/, I may be confused, but I still think not. If you visit www.vqeg.org (mirrored at http://media.xiph.org) you'll find that the sequences you compressed AREN'T there. The VQEG sequences are D1 (both PAL and NTSC) resolution and have file names of style srcXX_ref__X25.yuv....I also used these in my project, and they're public. Based on the names and resolutions of your files, I think they're actually MPEG-4 standards committee material, which as I mention below is NOT public. I've copied Stephan on this email and perhaps he can clarify ============================== Brian Dipert Technical Editor: Mass Storage, Memory, Multimedia, PC Core Logic and Peripherals, and Programmable Logic EDN Magazine: http://www.edn.com Contributing Editor, CommVerge Magazine: http://www.commvergemag.com 1864 52nd Street Sacramento, CA 95819 (916) 454-5242 (voice), (916) 454-5101 (fax) mailto:bdipert@edn.com Visit me at http://www.bdipert.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Dipert [mailto:bdipert@pacbell.net] > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2023 6:24 PM > To: singer@apple.com > Cc: Rob Koenen; technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: Beware > > > Umm...David. I also used the University of Hannover/MPEG-4 test > sequences in my video compression hands-on project, due to go > live Thursday morning at www.edn.com (any and all feedback > welcomed). Leonardo Chiariglione (yes, THAT Leonardo) from the > MPEG standards group was VERY emphatic (Rob'll back me up on > this) that I NOT post either the original YUVs or any lossless- > or even lossy-compressed variants of them to a public website, > since (as you point out on your > http://index.apple.com/~singer/sequences/testseq.html website) > they're copyright-protected. Note that the area of the Hannover > FTP site where the originals reside is password-protected; only > for use by MPEG members. Just thought I'd let you know that an > angry Italian may soon be headed your way. Conversely, if you > secure permission rights......please let me know, as I'd like to > post my stuff too! > ============================== > Brian Dipert > Technical Editor: Mass Storage, Memory, Multimedia, PC Core Logic > and Peripherals, and Programmable Logic > EDN Magazine: http://www.edn.com > Contributing Editor, CommVerge Magazine: http://www.commvergemag.com > 1864 52nd Street > Sacramento, CA 95819 > (916) 454-5242 (voice), (916) 454-5101 (fax) > mailto:bdipert@edn.com > Visit me at http://www.bdipert.com From stewe cs.tu-berlin.de Wed Jul 24 11:27:34 2002 From: stewe cs.tu-berlin.de (Stephan Wenger) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:31 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: Beware In-Reply-To: <002f01c232b1$a32b0160$0101a8c0@BrianDipert> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020724100821.02ab7760@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de> Dear Brian, thanks for letting me know. I'm no more active in VQEG, and certainly have not authorized the deployment of the few MPEG sequences VQEG uses. But I can say that a) Most of the VQEG sequences were donated by individual firms and are not the usual MPEG sequences. In fact, VQEG uses many more sequences than the MPEG sequences, and the MPEG sequences were primarily used as anchor material, because their properties are very well known. b) There are a number of sequences on the VQEG site that look like the MPEG sequences, but are not identical to the material on certain CDs with MPEG labels I got my hands on. This is particularly true for Flower Garden. Please check this before you jump to conclusions. c) Many of the members of VQEG were (and some still are) active in MPEG as well, or work for companies that are active in MPEG. I don't know whether the license the original contributors gave to MPEG was an exclusive license. But if not, it would probably be ok to donate them to another standardization body as well, which has its own (less restrictive) rules regarding the public availability of material. d) All MPEG sequences are widely (though probably illegally) used in academia and for research purposes. e) The right people to talk to on this issue are the chairs of VQEG, Philip and Arthur. Their coordinates can be found on the VQEG home page, located at www.vqeg.org. As a personal comment, and off the record I would like to add that trying to take these sequences out of the public domain (where they are de-facto, though apparently not de-jure) would not only potentially harm the VQEG project, but also the development of video technology itself. And it would be practically unfeasible. Every university department working on video coding I'm aware of has those sequences. Best regards, Stephan At 06:30 PM 7/23/2002 -0700, Brian Dipert wrote: >Followup; after visting Stephan's site at >http://kbs.cs.tu-berlin.de/~stewe/vceg/, I may be confused, but I still >think not. If you visit www.vqeg.org (mirrored at http://media.xiph.org) >you'll find that the sequences you compressed AREN'T there. The VQEG >sequences are D1 (both PAL and NTSC) resolution and have file names of style >srcXX_ref__X25.yuv....I also used these in my project, and they're public. >Based on the names and resolutions of your files, I think they're actually >MPEG-4 standards committee material, which as I mention below is NOT public. >I've copied Stephan on this email and perhaps he can clarify >============================== >Brian Dipert >Technical Editor: Mass Storage, Memory, Multimedia, PC Core Logic and >Peripherals, and Programmable Logic >EDN Magazine: http://www.edn.com >Contributing Editor, CommVerge Magazine: http://www.commvergemag.com >1864 52nd Street >Sacramento, CA 95819 >(916) 454-5242 (voice), (916) 454-5101 (fax) >mailto:bdipert@edn.com >Visit me at http://www.bdipert.com > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brian Dipert [mailto:bdipert@pacbell.net] > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2023 6:24 PM > > To: singer@apple.com > > Cc: Rob Koenen; technotes@lists.m4if.org > > Subject: Beware > > > > > > Umm...David. I also used the University of Hannover/MPEG-4 test > > sequences in my video compression hands-on project, due to go > > live Thursday morning at www.edn.com (any and all feedback > > welcomed). Leonardo Chiariglione (yes, THAT Leonardo) from the > > MPEG standards group was VERY emphatic (Rob'll back me up on > > this) that I NOT post either the original YUVs or any lossless- > > or even lossy-compressed variants of them to a public website, > > since (as you point out on your > > http://index.apple.com/~singer/sequences/testseq.html website) > > they're copyright-protected. Note that the area of the Hannover > > FTP site where the originals reside is password-protected; only > > for use by MPEG members. Just thought I'd let you know that an > > angry Italian may soon be headed your way. Conversely, if you > > secure permission rights......please let me know, as I'd like to > > post my stuff too! > > ============================== > > Brian Dipert > > Technical Editor: Mass Storage, Memory, Multimedia, PC Core Logic > > and Peripherals, and Programmable Logic > > EDN Magazine: http://www.edn.com > > Contributing Editor, CommVerge Magazine: http://www.commvergemag.com > > 1864 52nd Street > > Sacramento, CA 95819 > > (916) 454-5242 (voice), (916) 454-5101 (fax) > > mailto:bdipert@edn.com > > Visit me at http://www.bdipert.com From bdipert pacbell.net Wed Jul 24 06:45:55 2002 From: bdipert pacbell.net (Brian Dipert) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:31 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: Beware In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020724100821.02ab7760@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de> Message-ID: <001101c23310$0d696720$0101a8c0@BrianDipert> Stephan, I understand your points; thanks for taking the time to write in such detail! But a number of folks I originally contacted on the MPEG committee regarding these sequences all pointed me to Leonardo for the final decision. And he was QUITE emphatic about their not appearing in the public domain. So I'm not the one who needs to be convinced; you and I are in fact on the same 'side' of this issue. Rob Koenen is also aware of this restriction with the MPEG-4 (University of Hannover) files; it's in fact why his M4IF has its own set of public domain test sequences under development. ============================== Brian Dipert Technical Editor: Mass Storage, Memory, Multimedia, PC Core Logic and Peripherals, and Programmable Logic EDN Magazine: http://www.edn.com Contributing Editor, CommVerge Magazine: http://www.commvergemag.com 1864 52nd Street Sacramento, CA 95819 (916) 454-5242 (voice), (916) 454-5101 (fax) mailto:bdipert@edn.com Visit me at http://www.bdipert.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Stephan Wenger [mailto:stewe@cs.tu-berlin.de] > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2023 1:28 AM > To: bdipert@pacbell.net > Cc: singer@apple.com; Rob Koenen; technotes@lists.m4if.org; > stewe@cs.tu-berlin.de > Subject: RE: Beware > > > Dear Brian, > > thanks for letting me know. > > I'm no more active in VQEG, and certainly have not authorized the > deployment of the few MPEG sequences VQEG uses. But I can say that > > a) Most of the VQEG sequences were donated by individual firms > and are not > the usual MPEG sequences. In fact, VQEG uses many more sequences > than the > MPEG sequences, and the MPEG sequences were primarily used as anchor > material, because their properties are very well known. > > b) There are a number of sequences on the VQEG site that look > like the MPEG > sequences, but are not identical to the material on certain CDs with MPEG > labels I got my hands on. This is particularly true for Flower > Garden. Please check this before you jump to conclusions. > > c) Many of the members of VQEG were (and some still are) active > in MPEG as > well, or work for companies that are active in MPEG. I don't > know whether > the license the original contributors gave to MPEG was an exclusive > license. But if not, it would probably be ok to donate them to another > standardization body as well, which has its own (less restrictive) rules > regarding the public availability of material. > > d) All MPEG sequences are widely (though probably illegally) used in > academia and for research purposes. > > e) The right people to talk to on this issue are the chairs of > VQEG, Philip > and Arthur. Their coordinates can be found on the VQEG home > page, located > at www.vqeg.org. > > As a personal comment, and off the record I would like to add that trying > to take these sequences out of the public domain (where they are > de-facto, > though apparently not de-jure) would not only potentially harm the VQEG > project, but also the development of video technology itself. > And it would > be practically unfeasible. Every university department working on video > coding I'm aware of has those sequences. > > Best regards, > Stephan > > At 06:30 PM 7/23/2002 -0700, Brian Dipert wrote: > >Followup; after visting Stephan's site at > >http://kbs.cs.tu-berlin.de/~stewe/vceg/, I may be confused, but I still > >think not. If you visit www.vqeg.org (mirrored at http://media.xiph.org) > >you'll find that the sequences you compressed AREN'T there. The VQEG > >sequences are D1 (both PAL and NTSC) resolution and have file > names of style > >srcXX_ref__X25.yuv....I also used these in my project, and > they're public. > >Based on the names and resolutions of your files, I think > they're actually > >MPEG-4 standards committee material, which as I mention below is > NOT public. > >I've copied Stephan on this email and perhaps he can clarify > >============================== > >Brian Dipert > >Technical Editor: Mass Storage, Memory, Multimedia, PC Core Logic and > >Peripherals, and Programmable Logic > >EDN Magazine: http://www.edn.com > >Contributing Editor, CommVerge Magazine: http://www.commvergemag.com > >1864 52nd Street > >Sacramento, CA 95819 > >(916) 454-5242 (voice), (916) 454-5101 (fax) > >mailto:bdipert@edn.com > >Visit me at http://www.bdipert.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Brian Dipert [mailto:bdipert@pacbell.net] > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2023 6:24 PM > > > To: singer@apple.com > > > Cc: Rob Koenen; technotes@lists.m4if.org > > > Subject: Beware > > > > > > > > > Umm...David. I also used the University of Hannover/MPEG-4 test > > > sequences in my video compression hands-on project, due to go > > > live Thursday morning at www.edn.com (any and all feedback > > > welcomed). Leonardo Chiariglione (yes, THAT Leonardo) from the > > > MPEG standards group was VERY emphatic (Rob'll back me up on > > > this) that I NOT post either the original YUVs or any lossless- > > > or even lossy-compressed variants of them to a public website, > > > since (as you point out on your > > > http://index.apple.com/~singer/sequences/testseq.html website) > > > they're copyright-protected. Note that the area of the Hannover > > > FTP site where the originals reside is password-protected; only > > > for use by MPEG members. Just thought I'd let you know that an > > > angry Italian may soon be headed your way. Conversely, if you > > > secure permission rights......please let me know, as I'd like to > > > post my stuff too! > > > ============================== > > > Brian Dipert > > > Technical Editor: Mass Storage, Memory, Multimedia, PC Core Logic > > > and Peripherals, and Programmable Logic > > > EDN Magazine: http://www.edn.com > > > Contributing Editor, CommVerge Magazine: http://www.commvergemag.com > > > 1864 52nd Street > > > Sacramento, CA 95819 > > > (916) 454-5242 (voice), (916) 454-5101 (fax) > > > mailto:bdipert@edn.com > > > Visit me at http://www.bdipert.com > > From fzs 95777.com Wed Jul 24 21:19:42 2002 From: fzs 95777.com (Xiaotian Guo) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:31 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] M4IF Technotes Message-ID: <002101c2330c$6b41e560$d34495d3@2632> Hi, everybody, I am looking for MPEG-4 video simple profile codec, please give me a hand. Thanks&Best Regards, Xiaotian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020724/f0fc152d/attachment.html From rkoenen intertrust.com Wed Jul 24 09:15:30 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:31 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] M4IF Technotes Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59011B34AB@exchange.epr.com> Look at www.m4if.org/resources and look under tools. Also, you can get QuickTIme 6 Pro. Rob -----Original Message----- From: Xiaotian Guo [mailto:fzs@95777.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2023 5:20 To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] M4IF Technotes Hi, everybody, I am looking for MPEG-4 video simple profile codec, please give me a hand. Thanks&Best Regards, Xiaotian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020724/ff2e2854/attachment.html From jhu cmguc.com Wed Jul 24 13:00:54 2002 From: jhu cmguc.com (Jingyi Hu) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:31 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MS mpeg4 decoder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01c2332b$4afadcc0$9244ef0a@jingyixp> Hi All, I have verified these bitstreams which you listed is confrmanced with ISO Musystem reference player. Musystem player will play it perfectly. But I notice most of MP4 player will not support the short header .mp4 file include Envivo player, Quicktime player and Real player. I have send few samples file to Envivio ask them to take a look. If you know any player will support short header .mp4 file or you have some shorter .mp4 file sample please let me know. Because short header do not have the visual_object_sequence_start_code, visual_object_start_code and video_object_start_code. So what is the the correct information player need in decoder config (DSI) in order to play to correctly? Thanks. Jingyi Hu -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of Nitin Gupta--DSP, Noida Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2023 1:33 AM To: Rob Koenen; 'yrenjie'; Technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] MS mpeg4 decoder Hi all, I also have few lines to add to this .. though i fully support that the response of various decoders to errors in the bitstreams can vary from one to the other .. but at least every decoder should be able to decode all the conformance streams provided by ISO .. the conformance streams i m talking of are described in the table 4-5, 4-6, 4-7, 4-8, & 4-9 of ISO/IEC 14496-4:2000(E). But the MS decoder explicitly fails to decode some streams flagging an error that actually is not present in those bitstreams. Those bitstreams are on page 57 of ISO/IEC 14496-4:2000(E) in the table 4-8. These are extracted from the ISO CD from the following file: \Visual\Natural\Simple\short.zip. They are 1. short\mit021.m4v 2. short\mit022.m4v 3. short\mit023.m4v 4. short\mit024.m4v As these bitstreams are provided by ISO, i presume them to be totally error free. Moreover i myself have deocoded them by some other deocoder that decodes these bitstreams without flagging any error, thus conforming that they are totally correct. That is all i have to say. Thanx for the time of all. Regards, Nitin. -----Original Message----- From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2023 9:28 AM To: 'yrenjie'; Technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] MS mpeg4 decoder Response of the decoder to errors is not normatively defined in the standard. Therefore it is not in ther reference sw either. Please do not expect ISO participants (including microsoft) to provide you with optimized software (and hence, with their trade secrets). THe reference SW is a non-optimal example implementation of the standard, nothing less, but also nothing more. There is a lot of literature around on error resilience; I kindl suggest that you check that out. Best, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: yrenjie [mailto:yrenjie@sina.com] > Sent: Friday, July 19, 2023 19:18 > To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MS mpeg4 decoder > > > This message uses a character set that is not supported by > the Internet Service. To view the original message content, > open the attached message. If the text doesn't display > correctly, save the attachment to disk, and then open it > using a viewer that can display the original character set. > _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From arcin atsana.com Wed Jul 24 12:55:15 2002 From: arcin atsana.com (Arcin Bozkurt) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:31 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Quantization Method in Simple Profile Message-ID: <006e01c2332a$816fb560$d505000a@lumictech.com> In Table 9-1 in Section 9-1 (Profiles and Levels) Method1 / Method 2 Quantization is not supported in Simple Profiler. Short Header is supported in Simple profile. Since short header uses Method 2, and since Simple Profile does not support both M1 and M2, does this mean that simple profile support only Quantization Method 2? Thanks -arcin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020724/cbe7d2e8/attachment.html From chl math.uni-bonn.de Wed Jul 24 20:35:01 2002 From: chl math.uni-bonn.de (Christoph Lampert) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:31 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] B-VOP encoding: What if co_located_not_coded == 1 Message-ID: Hi, I read around through docs and MoMuSys reference software. From what I know I have the impression that if the co-located block of a macroblock in B-VOP the macroblock itself is SKIPed modb 1-2 vlclbf if (modb != -- Christoph H. Lampert chl@math.uni-bonn.de | Diese Signature wurde maschi- Beringstr. 6, Raum 14 Tel. (0228) 73-2948 | nell erstellt und bedarf Sprechstunden: keine, aber meistens da | keiner Unterschrift. AZ 27B-6 From chl math.uni-bonn.de Wed Jul 24 20:39:55 2002 From: chl math.uni-bonn.de (Christoph Lampert) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:31 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] B-VOP MB encoding if co_located == 1 Message-ID: Hi, from what I read and saw from reference implementation I have the following impression: A macroblock in a B-VOP whose co-located macroblock is SKIPed (not_codec==1) is _always_ encoded as FORWARD_MODE with fixed motion vector (0,0). Also, I read that no modb 1-2 vlclbf if (modb != -- Christoph H. Lampert chl@math.uni-bonn.de | Diese Signature wurde maschi- Beringstr. 6, Raum 14 Tel. (0228) 73-2948 | nell erstellt und bedarf Sprechstunden: keine, aber meistens da | keiner Unterschrift. AZ 27B-6 From chl math.uni-bonn.de Wed Jul 24 20:48:48 2002 From: chl math.uni-bonn.de (Christoph Lampert) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:32 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] macroblock in B-VOP with co-located block SKIPed Message-ID: Hi, from what I read and saw in the reference implementation, a macroblock in a B-VOP whose co-located block is skipped is _always_ encoded as FORWARD mode with motion vector (0,0). I also see that no modb, mb_type, cbp or dbquant information are saved because the decoder known about the co-located block already. So in fact the B-VOP block is SKIPed, too, because it's a just a copy of the previous macroblock. My question is: What if that's wrong? What if the block is not supposed to be skiped in the B-VOP, e.g. because there is something like a fast moving object which enters the block just for this particular moment. It could be something like background -> object -> background with GOP "PBP" where the second background is the same as the first, so the co-located block is indeed skiped, but the object somehow has to be encoded, too. To me the method looked like a _must_ Isn't there a way to _do_ encode a motion vector, or at least cbp and residue? Christoph Lampert P.S. Sorry if this mail was sent more than once. I had trouble with the mail program, of course... -- Christoph H. Lampert chl@math.uni-bonn.de | Diese Signature wurde maschi- Beringstr. 6, Raum 14 Tel. (0228) 73-2948 | nell erstellt und bedarf Sprechstunden: keine, aber meistens da | keiner Unterschrift. AZ 27B-6 From scott sorenson.com Wed Jul 24 17:58:20 2002 From: scott sorenson.com (Scott Anderson) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:32 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] macroblock in B-VOP with co-located block SKIPed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Christoph and all, Our MPEG-4 project lead at Sorenson, Richard Shields, noticed the same shortcoming this week. A SKIPed B-VOP block could be wrong. > Isn't there a way to _do_ encode a motion > vector, or at least cbp and residue? I don't see a way, with the given MPEG-4 syntax. One possible quick fix would be to not allow not_coded macroblocks within P-VOPs when encoding B-VOPs. This would stop the SKIP in the B-VOP. Perhaps a better fix would be to compare the block in the backward reference P-VOP to the block in the B-VOP(s) while encoding the backward reference P-VOP. If there is significant difference, don't allow the P-VOP to declare the macroblock not_coded. Are there any other suggestions out there? Thanks, Scott Anderson. -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Christoph Lampert Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2023 11:49 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] macroblock in B-VOP with co-located block SKIPed Hi, from what I read and saw in the reference implementation, a macroblock in a B-VOP whose co-located block is skipped is _always_ encoded as FORWARD mode with motion vector (0,0). I also see that no modb, mb_type, cbp or dbquant information are saved because the decoder known about the co-located block already. So in fact the B-VOP block is SKIPed, too, because it's a just a copy of the previous macroblock. My question is: What if that's wrong? What if the block is not supposed to be skiped in the B-VOP, e.g. because there is something like a fast moving object which enters the block just for this particular moment. It could be something like background -> object -> background with GOP "PBP" where the second background is the same as the first, so the co-located block is indeed skiped, but the object somehow has to be encoded, too. To me the method looked like a _must_ Isn't there a way to _do_ encode a motion vector, or at least cbp and residue? Christoph Lampert P.S. Sorry if this mail was sent more than once. I had trouble with the mail program, of course... -- Christoph H. Lampert chl@math.uni-bonn.de | Diese Signature wurde maschi- Beringstr. 6, Raum 14 Tel. (0228) 73-2948 | nell erstellt und bedarf Sprechstunden: keine, aber meistens da | keiner Unterschrift. AZ 27B-6 _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From tma iis.fhg.de Thu Jul 25 15:49:07 2002 From: tma iis.fhg.de (Herbert Thoma) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:32 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Quantization Method in Simple Profile References: <006e01c2332a$816fb560$d505000a@lumictech.com> Message-ID: <3D3FF3C3.CCEDA7FC@iis.fhg.de> > Arcin Bozkurt schrieb: > > In Table 9-1 in Section 9-1 (Profiles and Levels) > > > Method1 / Method 2 Quantization is not supported in Simple Profiler. > Short Header is supported in Simple profile. > > Since short header uses Method 2, and since Simple Profile does not support both M1 and M2, does this mean that simple profile support only Quantization Method 2? Yes, Simple Profile only supports Method 2 (H.263 style) quantizer. Herbert Thoma > Thanks > > -arcin -- Herbert Thoma FhG-IIS A, Studio Department Am Weichselgarten 3, 91058 Erlangen, Germany Phone: +49-9131-776-323 Fax: +49-9131-776-399 email: tma@iis.fhg.de www: http://www.iis.fhg.de/ From philg cisco.com Thu Jul 25 08:10:16 2002 From: philg cisco.com (Philip Graham) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:32 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] M4IF Technotes In-Reply-To: <002101c2330c$6b41e560$d34495d3@2632> Message-ID: Check out the open source project www.mpeg4ip.net. Supports the ISMA streaming specification as well (www.isma.tv) Phil -- Philip Graham Director, Engineering Cisco Technology Center 408-525-4794 philg@cisco.com www.isma.tv / Standards based Internet Protocol Video www.mpeg4ip.net / Open source MPEG4 streaming software "If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space" -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Xiaotian Guo Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2023 5:20 AM To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] M4IF Technotes Hi, everybody, I am looking for MPEG-4 video simple profile codec, please give me a hand. Thanks&Best Regards, Xiaotian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020725/3c8cb3bb/attachment.html From kenny.chen intel.com Fri Jul 26 09:45:44 2002 From: kenny.chen intel.com (Chen, Kenny) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:32 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MVD=16 in MPEG4 Message-ID: <957BD1C2BF3CD411B6C500A0C944CA26C926C6@pdsmsx32.pd.intel.com> Hi, In H.263, the table for MV difference ranges from -16 to 15.5, in MPEG4 MVD=16 is added. But in VM18 there is : if (diff_vector < -range) diff_vector = diff_vector + 2*range; else if (diff_vector > range-1) diff_vector = diff_vector - 2*range; range = 32; from this equation, it seems we can not get MVD=16 from it, so why do MPEG4 add MVD=16 in the vlc table? Is it useless? thanks Ken From tma iis.fhg.de Fri Jul 26 15:35:08 2002 From: tma iis.fhg.de (Herbert Thoma) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:32 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MVD=16 in MPEG4 References: <957BD1C2BF3CD411B6C500A0C944CA26C926C6@pdsmsx32.pd.intel.com> Message-ID: <3D4141FC.132FE54B@iis.fhg.de> "Chen, Kenny" schrieb: > > Hi, > > In H.263, the table for MV difference ranges from -16 to 15.5, in MPEG4 > MVD=16 is added. > But in VM18 there is : > if (diff_vector < -range) > diff_vector = diff_vector + 2*range; > else if (diff_vector > range-1) > diff_vector = diff_vector - 2*range; > > range = 32; > > from this equation, it seems we can not get MVD=16 from it, so why do MPEG4 > add MVD=16 in the vlc table? Is it useless? Hi, in MPEG-4 the range can be greater than +/-16, depending on the fcode_forward/backward in the VOP header and then MVD=16 is possible. Yours, Herbert. > thanks > Ken > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -- Herbert Thoma FhG-IIS A, Studio Department Am Weichselgarten 3, 91058 Erlangen, Germany Phone: +49-9131-776-323 Fax: +49-9131-776-399 email: tma@iis.fhg.de www: http://www.iis.fhg.de/ From piccarre elet.polimi.it Fri Jul 26 16:55:26 2002 From: piccarre elet.polimi.it (Luca Piccarreta) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:32 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MVD=16 in MPEG4 References: <957BD1C2BF3CD411B6C500A0C944CA26C926C6@pdsmsx32.pd.intel.com> Message-ID: <002e01c234ac$180adea0$4b7baf83@piccarreta> I just gave a look at the standard and discovered that MVD=16 exists, but must not be used when vop_fcode=1. MVD=16 is needed when vop_fcode>1 Luca. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chen, Kenny" To: Sent: Friday, July 26, 2023 2:45 AM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MVD=16 in MPEG4 > Hi, > > In H.263, the table for MV difference ranges from -16 to 15.5, in MPEG4 > MVD=16 is added. > But in VM18 there is : > if (diff_vector < -range) > diff_vector = diff_vector + 2*range; > else if (diff_vector > range-1) > diff_vector = diff_vector - 2*range; > > range = 32; > > from this equation, it seems we can not get MVD=16 from it, so why do MPEG4 > add MVD=16 in the vlc table? Is it useless? > > thanks > Ken > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From chl math.uni-bonn.de Fri Jul 26 18:15:16 2002 From: chl math.uni-bonn.de (Christoph Lampert) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:32 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MVD=16 in MPEG4 In-Reply-To: <002e01c234ac$180adea0$4b7baf83@piccarreta> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, Luca Piccarreta wrote: > I just gave a look at the standard and discovered that MVD=16 exists, > but must not be used when vop_fcode=1. > MVD=16 is needed when vop_fcode>1 You were not discussing B-frame direct mode delta vectors, were you? Because those are limited to fcode=1. Regular motion vector differences can of course have a value of 16 or much more... Christoph Lampert > Luca. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chen, Kenny" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 26, 2023 2:45 AM > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MVD=16 in MPEG4 > > > > Hi, > > > > In H.263, the table for MV difference ranges from -16 to 15.5, in MPEG4 > > MVD=16 is added. > > But in VM18 there is : > > if (diff_vector < -range) > > diff_vector = diff_vector + 2*range; > > else if (diff_vector > range-1) > > diff_vector = diff_vector - 2*range; > > > > range = 32; > > > > from this equation, it seems we can not get MVD=16 from it, so why do > MPEG4 > > add MVD=16 in the vlc table? Is it useless? > > > > thanks > > Ken > > _______________________________________________ > > Technotes mailing list > > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > -- Christoph H. Lampert chl@math.uni-bonn.de | Diese Signature wurde maschi- Beringstr. 6, Raum 14 Tel. (0228) 73-2948 | nell erstellt und bedarf Sprechstunden: keine, aber meistens da | keiner Unterschrift. AZ 27B-6 From nmathur.ext rd.francetelecom.com Mon Jul 29 12:42:38 2002 From: nmathur.ext rd.francetelecom.com (zze-tdf tvnum MATHUR N ext FTRD/TDF/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:32 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] DMIF and Amendment 7 Message-ID: <32808FAD125F8A49A3145D4BB67ADC4024C35D@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> Hi, I'm currently working on a review of technologies that would suit digital television. One of them is the MHP standard, which relies on Java code and MPEG-2 TS, but an enhancement based on MPEG-4 is already being talked about. The problem is that I'm a bit confused about the DMIF layer that is introduced in MPEG-4 and the "amendment 7" that specifies how mpeg-4 data may be carried over mpeg-2 TS and PS. Do they represent two different visions of how data can be carried in a broadcasting environment, or does "amendment 7" imply the use of DMIF? Could someone enlighten me on this point? Moreover, I'm looking for documents related to actual implementation of mpeg-4 over mpeg-2 and of DMIF. Any suggestion would be welcomed! Best Regards, Nivedita MATHUR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020729/9a6f47cd/attachment.html From yosinori crl.hitachi.co.jp Mon Jul 29 20:06:22 2002 From: yosinori crl.hitachi.co.jp (Yoshinori Suzuki) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:32 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] macroblock in B-VOP with co-located block SKIPed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c236e7$97927ba0$dd509085@crl.hitachi.co.jp> Dear Scott and Christoph, I would like to suggest to use S(GMC)-VOP, that means vop_coding_type=="S" and sprite_enable=="GMC", instead of P-VOP, if you select the Advanced Simple Profile. In this case, "modb" is coded even if the collocated block is "not_coded". Please check the following part of the syntax in macroblock layer: .......... if((co_located_not_coded!=1 || ... || (sprite_enable=="GMC" && backward_reference_vop_coding_type=="S")....){ if(transparent_mb()){ modb .......... Best regards, Yoshinori Suzuki Hitachi, Ltd. > -----Original Message----- > From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if. > org]On Behalf Of Scott Anderson > Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2023 7:58 AM > To: Christoph Lampert; technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] macroblock in B-VOP with co-located block > SKIPed > > > Christoph and all, > > Our MPEG-4 project lead at Sorenson, Richard Shields, noticed the same > shortcoming this week. A SKIPed B-VOP block could be wrong. > > > Isn't there a way to _do_ encode a motion > > vector, or at least cbp and residue? > > I don't see a way, with the given MPEG-4 syntax. > > One possible quick fix would be to not allow not_coded macroblocks within > P-VOPs when encoding B-VOPs. This would stop the SKIP in the B-VOP. > > Perhaps a better fix would be to compare the block in the > backward reference > P-VOP to the block in the B-VOP(s) while encoding the backward reference > P-VOP. If there is significant difference, don't allow the P-VOP > to declare > the macroblock not_coded. > > Are there any other suggestions out there? > > Thanks, > Scott Anderson. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Christoph Lampert > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2023 11:49 AM > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] macroblock in B-VOP with co-located block > SKIPed > > > Hi, > > from what I read and saw in the reference implementation, a macroblock in > a B-VOP whose co-located block is skipped is _always_ encoded as > FORWARD mode with motion vector (0,0). > I also see that no modb, mb_type, cbp or dbquant information are saved > because the decoder known about the co-located block already. > > So in fact the B-VOP block is SKIPed, too, because it's a just a copy of > the previous macroblock. > > My question is: What if that's wrong? What if the block is not supposed to > be skiped in the B-VOP, e.g. because there is something like a fast > moving object which enters the block just for this particular moment. > > It could be something like background -> object -> background > with GOP "PBP" where the second background is the same as the first, > so the co-located block is indeed skiped, but the object somehow has to be > encoded, too. > > To me the method looked like a _must_ Isn't there a way to _do_ encode a > motion vector, or at least cbp and residue? > > Christoph Lampert > > P.S. Sorry if this mail was sent more than once. I had trouble with the > mail program, of course... > > -- > Christoph H. Lampert chl@math.uni-bonn.de | Diese Signature wurde maschi- > Beringstr. 6, Raum 14 Tel. (0228) 73-2948 | nell erstellt und bedarf > Sprechstunden: keine, aber meistens da | keiner Unterschrift. AZ 27B-6 > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Mon Jul 29 14:04:06 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:33 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] DMIF and Amendment 7 Message-ID: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC101D6F277@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> -----Message d'origine----- De : zze-tdf tvnum MATHUR N ext FTRD/TDF/REN Envoy? : lundi 29 juillet 2002 11:43 ? : technotes@lists.m4if.org Objet : [M4IF Technotes] DMIF and Amendment 7 Hi, I'm currently working on a review of technologies that would suit digital television. One of them is the MHP standard, which relies on Java code and MPEG-2 TS, but an enhancement based on MPEG-4 is already being talked about. The problem is that I'm a bit confused about the DMIF layer that is introduced in MPEG-4 and the "amendment 7" that specifies how mpeg-4 data may be carried over mpeg-2 TS and PS. Do they represent two different visions of how data can be carried in a broadcasting environment, or does "amendment 7" imply the use of DMIF? No, you can implement 4/2 without DMIF. cu, O. ________________________________________ Olivier Avaro France T?l?com R&D DIH/HDM 38,40 rue du G?n?ral Leclerc 92794 Issy Moulineaux Cedex 9 FRANCE Mail : olivier.avaro@francetelecom.com Tel. : +33 1 45 29 40 97 Mobile : +33 6 74 94 87 18 Fax : +33 1 45 29 46 51 ________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020729/c7f9a89f/attachment.html From m8934632 student.nsysu.edu.tw Wed Jul 31 17:44:25 2002 From: m8934632 student.nsysu.edu.tw (BianSH) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:33 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Mask pics (binary or shape images) problem Message-ID: <002c01c2386e$7a6088a0$66a8758c@GRAPHIC> I have a question about the Masks for MPEG-4 video sequences on M4IF's resource page. I download all .seg.zip files and unzip them, but i don't realize how to use the .seg files. How can I get the mask sequences (ex:bmp files) from the "seg" file? On the other hand, i wonder that where we can obtain the mask pics in Internet to test our research? Grateful to you for your answers! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020731/85c6c5c9/attachment.html From m8934632 student.nsysu.edu.tw Wed Jul 31 20:38:29 2002 From: m8934632 student.nsysu.edu.tw (BianSH) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:33 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Mask pictures (binary or shape images) problem Message-ID: <002001c23886$cb3de700$66a8758c@GRAPHIC> ----- Original Message ----- From: BianSH To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2023 4:44 PM Subject: Mask pics (binary or shape images) problem I have a question about the Masks for MPEG-4 video sequences on M4IF's resource page. I download all .seg.zip files and unzip them, but i don't realize how to use the .seg files. How can I get the mask sequences (ex:bmp files) from the "seg" file? On the other hand, i wonder that where we can obtain the mask pics in Internet to test our research? Grateful to you for your answers! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020731/75a19c41/attachment.html From m8934632 student.nsysu.edu.tw Wed Jul 31 23:04:03 2002 From: m8934632 student.nsysu.edu.tw (BianSH) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:33 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Mask pictures (binary or shape images) problem Message-ID: <001401c2389b$21ea8860$66a8758c@GRAPHIC> I have a question about the Masks for MPEG-4 video sequences on M4IF's resource page. I download all .seg.zip files and unzip them, but i don't realize how to use the .seg files. How can I get the mask sequences (ex:bmp files) from the "seg" file? On the other hand, i wonder that where we can obtain the mask sequences on Internet to test our research? Grateful for your answers! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020731/d0a6a74e/attachment.html From piccarre elet.polimi.it Wed Jul 31 18:28:01 2002 From: piccarre elet.polimi.it (Luca Piccarreta) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:33 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Mask pictures (binary or shape images) problem References: <001401c2389b$21ea8860$66a8758c@GRAPHIC> Message-ID: <001201c238a6$db44f010$4b7baf83@piccarreta> I guess the .seg files are simply Bynary planes (255=visible, 0=transparent) consistently with what is output by the ref decoders! Luca. ----- Original Message ----- From: BianSH To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2023 4:04 PM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Mask pictures (binary or shape images) problem I have a question about the Masks for MPEG-4 video sequences on M4IF's resource page. I download all .seg.zip files and unzip them, but i don't realize how to use the .seg files. How can I get the mask sequences (ex:bmp files) from the "seg" file? On the other hand, i wonder that where we can obtain the mask sequences on Internet to test our research? Grateful for your answers! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020731/fa558f3a/attachment.html