From ssane hpux.students.engr.scu.edu Sun Mar 3 16:26:42 2002 From: ssane hpux.students.engr.scu.edu (Sanjay Sane) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] rtp pointers for FGS-coded Mpeg-4 streaming Message-ID: <011f01c1c313$460d5b80$020a0a0a@cisco.com> Hello, For any scalable-coded mpeg-4 stream (such as FGS - which produces BL and EL), which are the RTP standards that I should follow to -- packetize and stream the base layer and enhancement stream -- provide error-resilience to base-layer Any ietf-drafts, or documents or other pointers/implementations would be very helpful. As part of my Masters research, I would like to test a standards-based rtp/rtcp mpeg-4 system. Thanks, Sanjay From ssane hpux.students.engr.scu.edu Sun Mar 3 13:39:19 2002 From: ssane hpux.students.engr.scu.edu (Sanjay Sane) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] rtp draft for FGS-coded Mpeg-4 streaming Message-ID: <000f01c1c2fb$e538f6a0$020a0a0a@cisco.com> Hello, For any scalable-coded mpeg-4 stream (such as FGS - which produces BL and EL), which are the RTP standards that I should follow to -- packetize and stream the base layer and enhancement stream -- provide error-resilience to base-layer Any ietf-drafts, or documents or other pointers/implementations would be very helpful. As part of my Masters research, I would like to test a standards-based rtp/rtcp mpeg-4 system. Thanks, Sanjay From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Mon Mar 4 10:42:02 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/HDM) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:40 2003 Subject: TR: [M4IF Technotes] Question about DNI (DMIF Network Interface) Message-ID: <008a01c1c36c$18f4df70$3c436a20@rd.francetelecom.fr> TR: [M4IF Technotes] Question about DNI (DMIF Network Interface) -----Message d'origine----- De : Franceschini Guido [mailto:Guido.Franceschini@TILAB.COM] Envoy? : mardi 19 f?vrier 2002 17:25 ? : AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN; gen-sys@advent.ee.columbia.edu Objet : RE: [M4IF Technotes] Question about DNI (DMIF Network Interface) The DNI was defined in order to abstract from the features actually offered by concrete signalling protocols. With the DNI it has been possible to describe a generic walkthrough and identify what the requirements for a signalling protocol are. Based on the DNI a few mappings to concrete signalling protocols have been defined as well. The DNI abstraction is obviously informational. In principle, a similar approach could have been adopted for describing the behaviour in scenarios involving broadcast/multicast or files. However no text was produced for these other cases. Best regards Guido Franceschini TILAB - Multimedia Division Via G.Reiss Romoli 274 I-10148 Torino, Italy tel + 39 011 228 6137 fax + 39 011 228 6299 -----Original Message----- From: AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN [mailto:olivier.avaro@rd.francetelecom.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2024 5:11 PM To: gen-sys@advent.ee.columbia.edu (E-mail) Subject: TR: [M4IF Technotes] Question about DNI (DMIF Network Interface) Can someone help ? cu, O. -----Message d'origine----- De : technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]De la part de YDAMBIELLE@aol.com Envoy? : vendredi 1 f?vrier 2002 11:14 ? : technotes@lists.m4if.org Objet : [M4IF Technotes] Question about DNI (DMIF Network Interface) Hello, A new DMIF layer is created for each technologie I will use. For the networks technologie, I will have a DMIF layer + DNI + TransMux layer. For the local files technologies (like MPEG-4 datas on a hard drive) or for the brodacast technologie (datas coming from a satellite for exemple), I will have a new DMIF too. Will I have a DNI for each DMIFs ?? Thank you very much for your anwsers. Yannick DAMBIELLE 15 avenue jean-jeaurs 75019 PARIS France phone : +33 (0) 1 48 03 16 47 _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020304/a62d13fd/attachment.html From jpt okstate.edu Mon Mar 4 11:08:40 2002 From: jpt okstate.edu (Johnson P Thomas/comsc/cas/Okstate) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Message-ID: Does anyone out there know af any MPEG-4 network simulators? Johnson Thomas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020304/284ccf4c/attachment.html From emaycock iee.org.uk Tue Mar 5 11:20:43 2002 From: emaycock iee.org.uk (Maycock, Edward) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Visual Media Standards seminar, 25 April 2024 Message-ID: <31F8C9098B52D41193FA00508BC81B420231A69D@iee-73-200.iee.org.uk> Visual Media Standards for Today and Tomorrow One Day Seminar, 25 April 2002, IEE, Savoy Place, London, UK http://www.iee.org/Events/e25apr02.cfm The rapid and continuous evolution of standards for visual media has been and continues to be the driving force for the enormous commercial and technical success in a wide range of applications. This multimedia standards awareness event will map the progress of this important engine of technological progress and will be invaluable for engineers, scientists and managers at all levels of their career, in both industry and academia. Click on the web link above for details of the impressive programme of speakers and to download the registration form. Alternatively, e-mail Ed Maycock at emaycock@iee.org.uk for a copy of the programme and registration brochure. Organised by the Visual Information Engineering Professional Network (PN). Find out more and register now at http://www.iee.org/pn IEE Savoy Place London WC2R 0BL Tel: +44 (0) 20 7344 5422 Fax: +44 (0) 20 7497 3633 e-mail: emaycock@iee.org.uk As part of IEE's commitment to data protection, please advise us if you do not want to be contacted again in this manner and we will amend our records accordingly. From khuber sorenson.com Tue Mar 5 14:25:07 2002 From: khuber sorenson.com (Kris Huber) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Sprite brightness change? Message-ID: <70A238C106788B49A1B7B46C050DEDFE228D97@pandora.sorenson.com> Hello all, Are there any test bitstreams exercising brightness change for the low latency sprite or GMC case? I've noticed some ambiguity in MPEG-4 visual about how it is done, especially relative to how I think it should be done. The problem I see with the spec is that it doesn't allow transmission of brightness_factor_change_value=0. To encode this value, it appears that one has to start a new VOL with sprite_brightness_change=0, which is very expensive. The MoMuSys reference encoder software has an implementation that produces a code for brightness_factor_change_value=0, but that is only because the routine is buggy and does not implement the code given in Table B-34. I think the text should be revised to shift the negative integers of Table B-34 up by one value and modification of the reference software accordingly. I believe the omission of brightness_factor_change_value=0 in Table B-34 occured because the feature was orignally designed only with static sprites in mind, in which the value 0 is not needed. There are some unused negative values that are encodable. Shifting these up (adding 1) agrees with what the MoMuSys encoder puts into the bitstream to encode brightness_factor_change_value=0, and I think would be a proper reconciliation. Another problem with the specification of the brightness change semantics is that the conversion to integer is not specified after the scaling, Y = Y * (brightness_change_factor * 0.01 + 1), in sub-clause 7.8.6. This part isn't implemented at all in the reference software. Either rounding or truncation could be used with equal coding efficiency in this case, but mismatch will occur if some implement one way and others do it another. Alternatively, the scaling could be inserted into the interpolation formulas above to resolve the ambiguity. My preference is to simply truncate the fraction. Now a comment on using the brightness_control feature. It is an obvious method of improving coding efficiency during fade-ins and fade-outs. Does anyone have examples to share or pointers to papers about how significant this is? Simple modification of DC coefficients could give about the same effect, but AC frequencies won't be scaled. Information about specs related to MPEG-4 visual in which sprite_brightness_change is required to be 0 would also be appreciated (ISMA?, existing implementations?). I'll make a report of this MPEG-4 problem to individuals who may have opportunity to address it soon within the MPEG organization. Please reply in the next day or two, and there is a chance that your view can be incorporated into the next MPEG visual problem report. Regards, Kris Huber Sorenson Media, Inc. From rkoenen intertrust.com Tue Mar 5 14:14:29 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG4 Visual: Aspect Ratio Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59187E28@exchange.epr.com> I never ssaw an answer to this question. You are right in stating that conformant decoders MUST be able to decode these 'other' aspect ratios. Do the decoders out there indeed decode them? that's up to the decoder manufacturers to answer. The standard, however, prescribes nothing about display. So the decoded picture may not fit on your display, or you may give the user the option to pan. On a computer display, you can actually do pretty neat things with 'other' display ratios (and with the option to have multiple objects for that matter) Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Christoph Stadler [mailto:Christoph.Stadler@dynapel.de] > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2024 9:13 > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG4 Visual: Aspect Ratio > > > > Dear M4IF community, > > I have a question concerning the pixel aspect ratios used in > MPEG-4 Visual: > > The bitstream syntax allows to either use one of the pre-defined > pixel aspect ratios (e.g. 12:11 or 40:33) or to explicitly specify > a private one by setting 'aspect_ratio_info:=extended_PAR'. > This allows to transmit any aspect ratio that can be represented > as a fraction p:q with p,q in [1;255]. > > Although this sounds to me like a nice and possibly very helpful > feature, I somewhat hesitate to use it in a real encoder, as I fear > that the (unspecified) decoder - or its attached compositor/display > unit - will not be able to handle these arbitrary values. > > Of course this would imply that the decoder/compositor is not fully > conformant, but if it works properly with all the other encoders which > use only the standard aspect ratios, my position could turn > out rather > weak. > > Does anyone of you have experiences confirming or dispersing my > worries ? > > Thank you in advance, > > Christoph Stadler > > > --------- > DynaPel Labs GmbH Tel. +49 (0)89 962428-25 > Dr. Christoph Stadler > Fraunhofer Strasse 9 eMail christoph.stadler@dynapel.de > D-85737 Ismaning > GERMANY www.dynapel.de > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From singer apple.com Tue Mar 5 14:30:34 2002 From: singer apple.com (Dave Singer) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:41 2003 Subject: FW: [M4IF Technotes] one simple question In-Reply-To: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59187E2C@exchange.epr.com> References: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59187E2C@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: At 14:19 -0800 3/5/02, Rob Koenen wrote: >Dave? The standard actually does say this (all indexes start with 1) but we'll make it MUCH clearer in the amendment in progress. So chunk numbers run from 1. >-----Original Message----- >From: Chandra Sekhar Reddy G [mailto:gchandra@tataelxsi.co.in] >Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2024 20:04 >To: Wo Chang; technotes@lists.m4if.org >Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] one simple question > > >hi, > >i am also interested in an answer to this. > >the problem Wo talking about is for the observation. >the problem i am talking about is for the material itself. > >in fact, there are many counters in (eg. sub-atoms in SampleTableAtom) MP4 >File Format, >some start with '0' and some start with '1' (was it the way in QuickTime >FileFormat also?). > >eg. in SampleToChunkAtom, in many MP4 files, the chunk numbers start with >'1', some MP4 files start chunk numbers from '0'. >that is the way the data is encoded in the table in SampleToChunkAtom. > >i have seen some mp4 files using counters starting from '0', some mp4 files >starting from '1' for the same counters. > >Should the standard address this? > >Chandra > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Wo Chang >To: >Sent: Friday, February 01, 2024 12:58 AM >Subject: [M4IF Technotes] one simple question > > >> Dear All, >> >> One simple question: >> >> When counting frame in MPEG-1/-2/-4 video clip, >> do we (MPEG'ers) use "0" or "1" base when counting >> the very first frame? I came across materials using >> "1" as the starting frame but that may not be the >> MPEG's convention. >> >> The reason why I asked this is, let's say you have >> a group of collaborators reviewing shots. We will >> need to establish what is the first frame called: >> frame 0 or frame 1, so that at a later time, if we >> say "look at frame 928", then we all will look at >> the exact frame. >> >> I just want to know, how do MPEG'ers normally count >> the frame, do you count the very first frame as frame "0" >> or frame "1". >> >> Thanks! >> >> --Wo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Technotes mailing list >> Technotes@lists.m4if.org >> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > >_______________________________________________ >Technotes mailing list >Technotes@lists.m4if.org >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -- David Singer Apple Computer/QuickTime From garysull microsoft.com Tue Mar 5 14:58:20 2002 From: garysull microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG4 Visual: Aspect Ratio Message-ID: <0170DDAD0BADFA4CBEC3B55A0748DCCC05B66C66@red-msg-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Rob's answer is completely correct. Decoders must decode weird bitstreams that conform, but what to do for display is entirely up to the decision of the decoding system. -Gary +> -----Original Message----- +> From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] +> Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2024 2:14 PM +> To: 'Christoph.Stadler@dynapel.de'; technotes@lists.m4if.org +> Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG4 Visual: Aspect Ratio +> +> +> I never ssaw an answer to this question. +> You are right in stating that conformant decoders MUST be able +> to decode these 'other' aspect ratios. Do the decoders out there +> indeed decode them? that's up to the decoder manufacturers to +> answer. +> +> The standard, however, prescribes nothing about display. So +> the decoded picture may not fit on your display, or you may +> give the user the option to pan. On a computer display, you can +> actually do pretty neat things with 'other' display ratios +> (and with the option to have multiple objects for that matter) +> +> +> Rob +> +> > -----Original Message----- +> > From: Christoph Stadler [mailto:Christoph.Stadler@dynapel.de] +> > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2024 9:13 +> > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org +> > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG4 Visual: Aspect Ratio +> > +> > +> > +> > Dear M4IF community, +> > +> > I have a question concerning the pixel aspect ratios used in +> > MPEG-4 Visual: +> > +> > The bitstream syntax allows to either use one of the pre-defined +> > pixel aspect ratios (e.g. 12:11 or 40:33) or to explicitly specify +> > a private one by setting 'aspect_ratio_info:=extended_PAR'. +> > This allows to transmit any aspect ratio that can be represented +> > as a fraction p:q with p,q in [1;255]. +> > +> > Although this sounds to me like a nice and possibly very helpful +> > feature, I somewhat hesitate to use it in a real encoder, as I fear +> > that the (unspecified) decoder - or its attached +> compositor/display +> > unit - will not be able to handle these arbitrary values. +> > +> > Of course this would imply that the decoder/compositor is +> not fully +> > conformant, but if it works properly with all the other +> encoders which +> > use only the standard aspect ratios, my position could turn +> > out rather +> > weak. +> > +> > Does anyone of you have experiences confirming or dispersing my +> > worries ? +> > +> > Thank you in advance, +> > +> > Christoph Stadler +> > +> > +> > --------- +> > DynaPel Labs GmbH Tel. +49 (0)89 962428-25 +> > Dr. Christoph Stadler +> > Fraunhofer Strasse 9 eMail christoph.stadler@dynapel.de +> > D-85737 Ismaning +> > GERMANY www.dynapel.de +> > _______________________________________________ +> > Technotes mailing list +> > Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes +> > +> _______________________________________________ +> Technotes mailing list +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes +> From yosinori crl.hitachi.co.jp Wed Mar 6 10:50:37 2002 From: yosinori crl.hitachi.co.jp (Yoshinori Suzuki) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: [M4IF Interop] Sprite brightness change? References: <70A238C106788B49A1B7B46C050DEDFE228D97@pandora.sorenson.com> Message-ID: <3C8575ED.E35FB9E5@crl.hitachi.co.jp> Dear Dr. Huber, Thank you for the comments on brightness changes. I have a comment on the GMC specification. Kris Huber wrote: > > Hello all, > > Are there any test bitstreams exercising brightness change for the low > latency sprite or GMC case? I've noticed some ambiguity in MPEG-4 visual > about how it is done, especially relative to how I think it should be done. > > Information about specs related to MPEG-4 visual in which > sprite_brightness_change is required to be 0 would also be appreciated > (ISMA?, existing implementations?). > > I'll make a report of this MPEG-4 problem to individuals who may have > opportunity to address it soon within the MPEG organization. Please reply > in the next day or two, and there is a chance that your view can be > incorporated into the next MPEG visual problem report. I am an original proposer of the GMC to MPEG. First, I would like to make it known to you that "the GMC does NOT support the brightness change tool". The sprite_brightness_change is the tool for sprite warping, not for the GMC prediction. However, that is not indicated the document clearly as you pointed out. So, I think that we should add the following sentence to the semantics of sprite_brightness_change for clarification: sprite_brightness_change: This is a one-bit flag which when set to '1' indicates a change in brightness during sprite warping, alternatively, a value of '0' means no change in brightness. Note that this vaule shall be '0' when sprite_enable == 'GMC'. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Any comments? Best regards, Yoshinori Suzuki Hitachi, Ltd. From biswas tataelxsi.co.in Wed Mar 6 14:46:30 2002 From: biswas tataelxsi.co.in (Biswajit Biswas) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG4-CELP vs other speech codecs Message-ID: <3C85DE6E.62996612@tataelxsi.co.in> Hi, I am doing quality comparison between various speech codecs. MPEG4 CELP (ISO) SMV (3GPP2) GSM-AMR(3Gpp) Can anyone suggest where can I get reference source code for SMV (Selectable Mode Vocoder)? I have searched in 3gpp2.org, but could n't get any. Can anyone suggest an alternative location? With regards Bis -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: biswas.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 132 bytes Desc: Card for Biswajit Biswas Url : /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020306/5e12768a/biswas.bin From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Wed Mar 6 10:27:48 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From peter.lewis upperside.fr Wed Mar 6 16:25:31 2002 From: peter.lewis upperside.fr (Peter Lewis) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Congress Message-ID: <009f01c1c523$27645aa0$1901a8c0@oleane.com> Will MPEG-4 become the broadband content delivery standard ? The challenge is to avoid the duplication of contents for different platforms (TV, wireless, Internet). But will operators be able to provide MPEG-4 services ? The MPEG-4 Congress, to take place in Paris, France, from April 23 to 26, 2002 will bring answers and enlightenment to these questions. All details at: http://www.upperside.fr/mpeg42001/mpeg42001intro.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020306/5198af40/attachment.html From khuber sorenson.com Wed Mar 6 10:11:09 2002 From: khuber sorenson.com (Kris Huber) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF Interop] Sprite brightness change? Message-ID: <70A238C106788B49A1B7B46C050DEDFE228D9B@pandora.sorenson.com> Dear Yoshinori Suzuki, Thanks for this important clarification that affects Advanced Simple and Advance Coding Efficiency profiles. I support your proposed modification of text, unless all implementors of existing AS and ACE profile have in fact included sprite brightness change. But given the ambiguities, I suspect they have not. It seems that even for the static sprite, the brightness change functionality has not been fully implemented in the reference software decoder or encoder. It is fully documented in the text of the standard, although with the inadequacy of not encoding the case of unchanged brightness except in the VOL header. I think brightness change could be a useful coding tool in the GMC case, but have no supporting research to back up that intuition. The sorts of camcorder sequences I shoot always use fade-in and fade-out, and I would expect some bandwidth savings for content interspersed frequently with that effect. As I recall, one reason that the global motion compensation tool was attractive was it's lower memory and computational complexity than sprite-base coding, which would allow its use in real-time devices such as camcorders and mobile video decoders. In principle, brightness change is much like quarter-pel MC. Just as quarter-pel refines the reference VOP in the spatial dimensions, brightness change refines it in the luminance dimension. Best regards, Kris -----Original Message----- From: Yoshinori Suzuki [mailto:yosinori@crl.hitachi.co.jp] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2024 6:51 PM To: Kris Huber Cc: 'technotes@lists.m4if.org'; 'interop@lists.m4if.org'; 'tchiang@cc.nctu.edu.tw'; 'kldi@computer.org'; 'garysull@microsoft.com' Subject: Re: [M4IF Interop] Sprite brightness change? Dear Dr. Huber, Thank you for the comments on brightness changes. I have a comment on the GMC specification. Kris Huber wrote: > > Hello all, > > Are there any test bitstreams exercising brightness change for the low > latency sprite or GMC case? I've noticed some ambiguity in MPEG-4 visual > about how it is done, especially relative to how I think it should be done. > > Information about specs related to MPEG-4 visual in which > sprite_brightness_change is required to be 0 would also be appreciated > (ISMA?, existing implementations?). > > I'll make a report of this MPEG-4 problem to individuals who may have > opportunity to address it soon within the MPEG organization. Please reply > in the next day or two, and there is a chance that your view can be > incorporated into the next MPEG visual problem report. I am an original proposer of the GMC to MPEG. First, I would like to make it known to you that "the GMC does NOT support the brightness change tool". The sprite_brightness_change is the tool for sprite warping, not for the GMC prediction. However, that is not indicated the document clearly as you pointed out. So, I think that we should add the following sentence to the semantics of sprite_brightness_change for clarification: sprite_brightness_change: This is a one-bit flag which when set to '1' indicates a change in brightness during sprite warping, alternatively, a value of '0' means no change in brightness. Note that this vaule shall be '0' when sprite_enable == 'GMC'. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Any comments? Best regards, Yoshinori Suzuki Hitachi, Ltd. From philippe.gentric philips.com Wed Mar 6 18:37:53 2002 From: philippe.gentric philips.com (philippe.gentric@philips.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] rtp pointers for FGS-coded Mpeg-4 streaming Message-ID: have a look at: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-avt-mpeg4-multisl-04.txt but I dont describe explicitely FGS, EL and BL are supposed to be just 2 different RTP streams ... the rest of the RTP framework can be used to provide, if required, redundancy and/or FEC etc .... my concern is rather for session description .... specifically -except using the OD framework ;-)- I am not aware of a way to describe (typically in SDP) that one stream is EL and the other is BL, (for example the streamtype = 4 for both, right ?) so you also need to convey at least one AU of OD ? or can do it in the IOD ? see also: http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-singer-mpeg4-ip-04.txt regards, Philippe Gentric Software Architect Philips MP4Net philippe.gentric@philips.com http://www.mpeg-4.philips.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020306/cb36d5c1/attachment.html From yosinori crl.hitachi.co.jp Thu Mar 7 10:49:13 2002 From: yosinori crl.hitachi.co.jp (Yoshinori Suzuki) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Sprite brightness change? References: <70A238C106788B49A1B7B46C050DEDFE228D9B@pandora.sorenson.com> Message-ID: <3C86C719.9E1D0014@crl.hitachi.co.jp> Dear Kris, Thank your for the reply and the support on my editorial comment. I also think that the brightness change could be a useful tool on the general GMC approach in principle. However, I selected to remove the brightness change tool from the GMC specification from the viewpoint of compulational complexity, since the AS or ACE profile does not support even the static sprite. Best regards, Yoshinori Suzuki Hitachi, Ltd. Kris Huber wrote: > > Dear Yoshinori Suzuki, > > Thanks for this important clarification that affects Advanced Simple and > Advance Coding Efficiency profiles. I support your proposed modification of > text, unless all implementors of existing AS and ACE profile have in fact > included sprite brightness change. But given the ambiguities, I suspect > they have not. > > It seems that even for the static sprite, the brightness change > functionality has not been fully implemented in the reference software > decoder or encoder. It is fully documented in the text of the standard, > although with the inadequacy of not encoding the case of unchanged > brightness except in the VOL header. > > I think brightness change could be a useful coding tool in the GMC case, but > have no supporting research to back up that intuition. The sorts of > camcorder sequences I shoot always use fade-in and fade-out, and I would > expect some bandwidth savings for content interspersed frequently with that > effect. As I recall, one reason that the global motion compensation tool > was attractive was it's lower memory and computational complexity than > sprite-base coding, which would allow its use in real-time devices such as > camcorders and mobile video decoders. In principle, brightness change is > much like quarter-pel MC. Just as quarter-pel refines the reference VOP in > the spatial dimensions, brightness change refines it in the luminance > dimension. > > Best regards, > Kris > > -----Original Message----- > From: Yoshinori Suzuki [mailto:yosinori@crl.hitachi.co.jp] > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2024 6:51 PM > To: Kris Huber > Cc: 'technotes@lists.m4if.org'; 'interop@lists.m4if.org'; > 'tchiang@cc.nctu.edu.tw'; 'kldi@computer.org'; 'garysull@microsoft.com' > Subject: Re: [M4IF Interop] Sprite brightness change? > > Dear Dr. Huber, > > Thank you for the comments on brightness changes. > I have a comment on the GMC specification. > > Kris Huber wrote: > > > > Hello all, > > > > Are there any test bitstreams exercising brightness change for the low > > latency sprite or GMC case? I've noticed some ambiguity in MPEG-4 visual > > about how it is done, especially relative to how I think it should be > done. > > > > Information about specs related to MPEG-4 visual in which > > sprite_brightness_change is required to be 0 would also be appreciated > > (ISMA?, existing implementations?). > > > > I'll make a report of this MPEG-4 problem to individuals who may have > > opportunity to address it soon within the MPEG organization. Please reply > > in the next day or two, and there is a chance that your view can be > > incorporated into the next MPEG visual problem report. > > I am an original proposer of the GMC to MPEG. > First, I would like to make it known to you that > "the GMC does NOT support the brightness change tool". > The sprite_brightness_change is the tool for sprite warping, > not for the GMC prediction. > However, that is not indicated the document clearly as you pointed out. > So, I think that we should add the following sentence to the > semantics of sprite_brightness_change for clarification: > > sprite_brightness_change: This is a one-bit flag which when set to '1' > indicates a change in brightness during sprite warping, alternatively, > a value of '0' means no change in brightness. > Note that this vaule shall be '0' when sprite_enable == 'GMC'. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Any comments? > > Best regards, > > Yoshinori Suzuki > Hitachi, Ltd. > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From rkoenen intertrust.com Wed Mar 6 18:13:00 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Sprite brightness change? Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59187EA3@exchange.epr.com> Think you need to carry this over to the MPEG Video reflector. Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Yoshinori Suzuki [mailto:yosinori@crl.hitachi.co.jp] > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2024 17:49 > To: Kris Huber > Cc: 'technotes@lists.m4if.org'; 'interop@lists.m4if.org'; > 'tchiang@cc.nctu.edu.tw'; 'kldi@computer.org'; > 'garysull@microsoft.com' > Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Sprite brightness change? > > > Dear Kris, > > Thank your for the reply and the support on my editorial comment. > > I also think that the brightness change could be a useful tool on the > general GMC approach in principle. However, I selected to remove the > brightness change tool from the GMC specification from the > viewpoint of > compulational complexity, since the AS or ACE profile does > not support > even the static sprite. > > Best regards, > > Yoshinori Suzuki > Hitachi, Ltd. > > Kris Huber wrote: > > > > Dear Yoshinori Suzuki, > > > > Thanks for this important clarification that affects > Advanced Simple and > > Advance Coding Efficiency profiles. I support your > proposed modification of > > text, unless all implementors of existing AS and ACE > profile have in fact > > included sprite brightness change. But given the > ambiguities, I suspect > > they have not. > > > > It seems that even for the static sprite, the brightness change > > functionality has not been fully implemented in the > reference software > > decoder or encoder. It is fully documented in the text of > the standard, > > although with the inadequacy of not encoding the case of unchanged > > brightness except in the VOL header. > > > > I think brightness change could be a useful coding tool in > the GMC case, but > > have no supporting research to back up that intuition. The sorts of > > camcorder sequences I shoot always use fade-in and > fade-out, and I would > > expect some bandwidth savings for content interspersed > frequently with that > > effect. As I recall, one reason that the global motion > compensation tool > > was attractive was it's lower memory and computational > complexity than > > sprite-base coding, which would allow its use in real-time > devices such as > > camcorders and mobile video decoders. In principle, > brightness change is > > much like quarter-pel MC. Just as quarter-pel refines the > reference VOP in > > the spatial dimensions, brightness change refines it in the > luminance > > dimension. > > > > Best regards, > > Kris > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Yoshinori Suzuki [mailto:yosinori@crl.hitachi.co.jp] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2024 6:51 PM > > To: Kris Huber > > Cc: 'technotes@lists.m4if.org'; 'interop@lists.m4if.org'; > > 'tchiang@cc.nctu.edu.tw'; 'kldi@computer.org'; > 'garysull@microsoft.com' > > Subject: Re: [M4IF Interop] Sprite brightness change? > > > > Dear Dr. Huber, > > > > Thank you for the comments on brightness changes. > > I have a comment on the GMC specification. > > > > Kris Huber wrote: > > > > > > Hello all, > > > > > > Are there any test bitstreams exercising brightness > change for the low > > > latency sprite or GMC case? I've noticed some ambiguity > in MPEG-4 visual > > > about how it is done, especially relative to how I think > it should be > > done. > > > > > > Information about specs related to MPEG-4 visual in which > > > sprite_brightness_change is required to be 0 would also > be appreciated > > > (ISMA?, existing implementations?). > > > > > > I'll make a report of this MPEG-4 problem to individuals > who may have > > > opportunity to address it soon within the MPEG > organization. Please reply > > > in the next day or two, and there is a chance that your > view can be > > > incorporated into the next MPEG visual problem report. > > > > I am an original proposer of the GMC to MPEG. > > First, I would like to make it known to you that > > "the GMC does NOT support the brightness change tool". > > The sprite_brightness_change is the tool for sprite warping, > > not for the GMC prediction. > > However, that is not indicated the document clearly as you > pointed out. > > So, I think that we should add the following sentence to the > > semantics of sprite_brightness_change for clarification: > > > > sprite_brightness_change: This is a one-bit flag which when > set to '1' > > indicates a change in brightness during sprite warping, > alternatively, > > a value of '0' means no change in brightness. > > Note that this vaule shall be '0' when sprite_enable == 'GMC'. > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Any comments? > > > > Best regards, > > > > Yoshinori Suzuki > > Hitachi, Ltd. > > _______________________________________________ > > Technotes mailing list > > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From fd97481 hotmail.com Thu Mar 7 14:59:08 2002 From: fd97481 hotmail.com (ramanathan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG 4 systems 'C' reference code Message-ID: Hi Could anybody out there help me in finding an MPEG 4 systems C reference code? It would be better if no password is required for the source code access. Thanks and Regards Ramanathan. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020307/bcd2937b/attachment.html From dim psytel-research.co.yu Thu Mar 7 10:45:24 2002 From: dim psytel-research.co.yu (Ivan Dimkovic) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG 4 systems 'C' reference code References: Message-ID: <000c01c1c5bc$ceea9c50$0100a8c0@hal> Dear Ramanathan, For the ISO public distribution of the MPEG-4 reference code you may wish to check this: http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/14496-5_Compressed_ directories/ But this software might be outdated - latest versions are available for MPEG members only, with appropriate password. Regards, ************************************************* Ivan Dimkovic, Technical Manager PsyTEL Research Multimedia Coding Solutions Belgrade Yugoslavia phone: +381 63 264 334 phone: +381 64 11 40 600 fax: +381 11 32 25 275 email: dim@psytel-research.co.yu www: http://www.psytel-research.co.yu ************************************************* ----- Original Message ----- From: ramanathan To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2024 10:29 AM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG 4 systems 'C' reference code Hi Could anybody out there help me in finding an MPEG 4 systems C reference code? It would be better if no password is required for the source code access. Thanks and Regards Ramanathan. From wuks bhnec.nec.co.jp Thu Mar 7 18:18:58 2002 From: wuks bhnec.nec.co.jp (wuks@bhnec.nec.co.jp) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG 4 systems 'C' reference code Message-ID: ----- 转发人 wuks/BHNEC 时间 2024/03/07 18:21 ----- give me too, thank you ! "ramanathan" > 抄送： 发件人： 主题： [M4IF Technotes] MPEG 4 systems 'C' technotes-admin@list reference code s.m4if.org 2024/03/07 17:29 Hi Could anybody out there help me in finding an MPEG 4 systems C reference code? It would be better if no password is required for the source code access. Thanks and Regards Ramanathan. From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Thu Mar 7 13:09:34 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG 4 systems 'C' reference code Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From khuber sorenson.com Thu Mar 7 10:54:48 2002 From: khuber sorenson.com (Kris Huber) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Sprite brightness change? Message-ID: <70A238C106788B49A1B7B46C050DEDFE228D9E@pandora.sorenson.com> Dear Yoshinori, How about disallowing the value 0 for no_of_sprite_warping_points when sprite_enable='GMC'? In that case GMC prediction for the macroblock is identical to the prediction done by the 'not_coded' bit without GMC. Or do I miss a subtle difference? The semantics of no_of_sprite_warping_points in the text of clause 6.3.3 would change from " ... the value of 4 is disallowed ... " to " ... the values of 0 and 4 are disallowed ... " Thanks in advance for clarification, Kris -----Original Message----- From: Yoshinori Suzuki [mailto:yosinori@crl.hitachi.co.jp] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2024 6:49 PM To: Kris Huber Cc: 'technotes@lists.m4if.org'; 'interop@lists.m4if.org'; 'tchiang@cc.nctu.edu.tw'; 'kldi@computer.org'; 'garysull@microsoft.com' Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Sprite brightness change? Dear Kris, Thank your for the reply and the support on my editorial comment. I also think that the brightness change could be a useful tool on the general GMC approach in principle. However, I selected to remove the brightness change tool from the GMC specification from the viewpoint of compulational complexity, since the AS or ACE profile does not support even the static sprite. Best regards, Yoshinori Suzuki Hitachi, Ltd. Kris Huber wrote: > > Dear Yoshinori Suzuki, > > Thanks for this important clarification that affects Advanced Simple and > Advance Coding Efficiency profiles. I support your proposed modification of > text, unless all implementors of existing AS and ACE profile have in fact > included sprite brightness change. But given the ambiguities, I suspect > they have not. > > It seems that even for the static sprite, the brightness change > functionality has not been fully implemented in the reference software > decoder or encoder. It is fully documented in the text of the standard, > although with the inadequacy of not encoding the case of unchanged > brightness except in the VOL header. > > I think brightness change could be a useful coding tool in the GMC case, but > have no supporting research to back up that intuition. The sorts of > camcorder sequences I shoot always use fade-in and fade-out, and I would > expect some bandwidth savings for content interspersed frequently with that > effect. As I recall, one reason that the global motion compensation tool > was attractive was it's lower memory and computational complexity than > sprite-base coding, which would allow its use in real-time devices such as > camcorders and mobile video decoders. In principle, brightness change is > much like quarter-pel MC. Just as quarter-pel refines the reference VOP in > the spatial dimensions, brightness change refines it in the luminance > dimension. > > Best regards, > Kris > > -----Original Message----- > From: Yoshinori Suzuki [mailto:yosinori@crl.hitachi.co.jp] > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2024 6:51 PM > To: Kris Huber > Cc: 'technotes@lists.m4if.org'; 'interop@lists.m4if.org'; > 'tchiang@cc.nctu.edu.tw'; 'kldi@computer.org'; 'garysull@microsoft.com' > Subject: Re: [M4IF Interop] Sprite brightness change? > > Dear Dr. Huber, > > Thank you for the comments on brightness changes. > I have a comment on the GMC specification. > > Kris Huber wrote: > > > > Hello all, > > > > Are there any test bitstreams exercising brightness change for the low > > latency sprite or GMC case? I've noticed some ambiguity in MPEG-4 visual > > about how it is done, especially relative to how I think it should be > done. > > > > Information about specs related to MPEG-4 visual in which > > sprite_brightness_change is required to be 0 would also be appreciated > > (ISMA?, existing implementations?). > > > > I'll make a report of this MPEG-4 problem to individuals who may have > > opportunity to address it soon within the MPEG organization. Please reply > > in the next day or two, and there is a chance that your view can be > > incorporated into the next MPEG visual problem report. > > I am an original proposer of the GMC to MPEG. > First, I would like to make it known to you that > "the GMC does NOT support the brightness change tool". > The sprite_brightness_change is the tool for sprite warping, > not for the GMC prediction. > However, that is not indicated the document clearly as you pointed out. > So, I think that we should add the following sentence to the > semantics of sprite_brightness_change for clarification: > > sprite_brightness_change: This is a one-bit flag which when set to '1' > indicates a change in brightness during sprite warping, alternatively, > a value of '0' means no change in brightness. > Note that this vaule shall be '0' when sprite_enable == 'GMC'. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Any comments? > > Best regards, > > Yoshinori Suzuki > Hitachi, Ltd. > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From yosinori crl.hitachi.co.jp Fri Mar 8 10:08:31 2002 From: yosinori crl.hitachi.co.jp (Yoshinori Suzuki) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Sprite brightness change? References: <70A238C106788B49A1B7B46C050DEDFE228D9E@pandora.sorenson.com> Message-ID: <3C880F0F.22A26D96@crl.hitachi.co.jp> Dear Kris, Thank you for the comments and interests on the GMC. The MPEG-4 GMC supports the value 0 for no_of_sprite_warping_point, since this solution does not add the complexity to the decoder and it could slightly save the coding bits for the zero motion vectors. Best regards, Yoshinori Suzuki Hitachi, Ltd. Kris Huber wrote: > > Dear Yoshinori, > > How about disallowing the value 0 for no_of_sprite_warping_points when > sprite_enable='GMC'? In that case GMC prediction for the macroblock is > identical to the prediction done by the 'not_coded' bit without GMC. Or do > I miss a subtle difference? > > The semantics of no_of_sprite_warping_points in the text of clause 6.3.3 > would change from > " > ... the value of 4 is disallowed ... > " > to > " > ... the values of 0 and 4 are disallowed ... > " > > Thanks in advance for clarification, > Kris > > -----Original Message----- > From: Yoshinori Suzuki [mailto:yosinori@crl.hitachi.co.jp] > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2024 6:49 PM > To: Kris Huber > Cc: 'technotes@lists.m4if.org'; 'interop@lists.m4if.org'; > 'tchiang@cc.nctu.edu.tw'; 'kldi@computer.org'; 'garysull@microsoft.com' > Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Sprite brightness change? > > Dear Kris, > > Thank your for the reply and the support on my editorial comment. > > I also think that the brightness change could be a useful tool on the > general GMC approach in principle. However, I selected to remove the > brightness change tool from the GMC specification from the viewpoint of > compulational complexity, since the AS or ACE profile does not support > even the static sprite. > > Best regards, > > Yoshinori Suzuki > Hitachi, Ltd. > > Kris Huber wrote: > > > > Dear Yoshinori Suzuki, > > > > Thanks for this important clarification that affects Advanced Simple and > > Advance Coding Efficiency profiles. I support your proposed modification > of > > text, unless all implementors of existing AS and ACE profile have in fact > > included sprite brightness change. But given the ambiguities, I suspect > > they have not. > > > > It seems that even for the static sprite, the brightness change > > functionality has not been fully implemented in the reference software > > decoder or encoder. It is fully documented in the text of the standard, > > although with the inadequacy of not encoding the case of unchanged > > brightness except in the VOL header. > > > > I think brightness change could be a useful coding tool in the GMC case, > but > > have no supporting research to back up that intuition. The sorts of > > camcorder sequences I shoot always use fade-in and fade-out, and I would > > expect some bandwidth savings for content interspersed frequently with > that > > effect. As I recall, one reason that the global motion compensation tool > > was attractive was it's lower memory and computational complexity than > > sprite-base coding, which would allow its use in real-time devices such as > > camcorders and mobile video decoders. In principle, brightness change is > > much like quarter-pel MC. Just as quarter-pel refines the reference VOP > in > > the spatial dimensions, brightness change refines it in the luminance > > dimension. > > > > Best regards, > > Kris > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Yoshinori Suzuki [mailto:yosinori@crl.hitachi.co.jp] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2024 6:51 PM > > To: Kris Huber > > Cc: 'technotes@lists.m4if.org'; 'interop@lists.m4if.org'; > > 'tchiang@cc.nctu.edu.tw'; 'kldi@computer.org'; 'garysull@microsoft.com' > > Subject: Re: [M4IF Interop] Sprite brightness change? > > > > Dear Dr. Huber, > > > > Thank you for the comments on brightness changes. > > I have a comment on the GMC specification. > > > > Kris Huber wrote: > > > > > > Hello all, > > > > > > Are there any test bitstreams exercising brightness change for the low > > > latency sprite or GMC case? I've noticed some ambiguity in MPEG-4 > visual > > > about how it is done, especially relative to how I think it should be > > done. > > > > > > Information about specs related to MPEG-4 visual in which > > > sprite_brightness_change is required to be 0 would also be appreciated > > > (ISMA?, existing implementations?). > > > > > > I'll make a report of this MPEG-4 problem to individuals who may have > > > opportunity to address it soon within the MPEG organization. Please > reply > > > in the next day or two, and there is a chance that your view can be > > > incorporated into the next MPEG visual problem report. > > > > I am an original proposer of the GMC to MPEG. > > First, I would like to make it known to you that > > "the GMC does NOT support the brightness change tool". > > The sprite_brightness_change is the tool for sprite warping, > > not for the GMC prediction. > > However, that is not indicated the document clearly as you pointed out. > > So, I think that we should add the following sentence to the > > semantics of sprite_brightness_change for clarification: > > > > sprite_brightness_change: This is a one-bit flag which when set to '1' > > indicates a change in brightness during sprite warping, alternatively, > > a value of '0' means no change in brightness. > > Note that this vaule shall be '0' when sprite_enable == 'GMC'. > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Any comments? > > > > Best regards, > > > > Yoshinori Suzuki > > Hitachi, Ltd. > > _______________________________________________ > > Technotes mailing list > > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From baojinlong sohu.com Tue Mar 12 11:01:41 2002 From: baojinlong sohu.com (baojinlong@sohu.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] I need 11172 Message-ID: <1025793.1015902101506.JavaMail.postfix@mx13.mail.sohu.com> hello all: I need the standard document of iso/itc 11172-1,-2,-3. Who can tell me where to find them ? thanks!!! baojinlong@sohu.com 2024/03/12 From garysull microsoft.com Mon Mar 11 19:31:14 2002 From: garysull microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] I need 11172 Message-ID: <0170DDAD0BADFA4CBEC3B55A0748DCCC05B66CE9@red-msg-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> That's not an MPEG-4 question, but anyhow, try this link: http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/StandardsQueryFormHandler.StandardsQueryFormHan dler?languageCode=en&keyword=&lastSearch=false&isoNumber=11172&isoPartNu mber=&ICS=&stageCode=&stageDate=&committee=ALL&subcommittee=&scope=CATAL OGUE&sortOrder=ISO (you may have to do some cut & paste to make that one long string for your browser to go look for) Best Regards, Gary S. +> -----Original Message----- +> From: baojinlong@sohu.com [mailto:baojinlong@sohu.com] +> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2024 7:02 PM +> To: technotes@lists.m4if.org +> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] I need 11172 +> +> +> hello all: +> I need the standard document of iso/itc 11172-1,-2,-3. +> Who can tell me where to find them ? +> thanks!!! +> baojinlong@sohu.com +> 2024/03/12 +> _______________________________________________ +> Technotes mailing list +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes +> From Danilo.Tromp NOB.nl Tue Mar 12 10:01:43 2002 From: Danilo.Tromp NOB.nl (Danilo Tromp) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG4 and fonts? References: <000201c1c876$6c5c9ef0$0301a8c0@manystreams.com> <3C8C8061.BE444984@enst.fr> Message-ID: <009101c1c9a4$883838d0$63224f50@danilo> Hi, I have some small questions regarding MPEG4 players: 1. What fonts in the current MPEG4 players? Is there a way to add new fonts? 2. Is there provision for antialiasing in the spec or is this player dependent? -- With kind regards - met vriendelijke groet Danilo Tromp System architect NOB Innovation Dutch Broadcast Facilities +31-35-6775899 There is a rumor going around (.) that television as we know it is soon to be swept up and utterly transfigured by some digital-age thing they're calling interactivity. Pay it no mind. Television has always been interactive (.) Interaction lies at the heart of television as a cultural form - and always has. (.) TV would mean nothing without the active, organizing affections of its viewers; we shape it at least as much as it shapes us. :wq From fd97481 hotmail.com Tue Mar 12 20:16:19 2002 From: fd97481 hotmail.com (ramanathan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] the MPEG 4 reference code from the ISO site. Message-ID: I am unable to run the MPEG 4 systems reference code on the ISO website due to some registry problem. If anybody out there has been able to successfully run the code, (ie the sample inputs that comes along with player3D/ scenes), please let me know as to what should be the PROPER REGISTRY CONFIGURATION for running the code. The tips given for running the application dont seem to be very clear either (for eg:How is the FileTrivInstance.dll supposed to be modified if Im1player is run from a different directory?) I am neither able to run the IM1 player nor the 3D player. Please help. This has been driving me crazy for quite some time. Regards Ramanathan. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020312/a7db33ed/attachment.html From Danilo.Tromp NOB.nl Tue Mar 12 16:08:41 2002 From: Danilo.Tromp NOB.nl (Danilo Tromp) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] the MPEG 4 reference code from the ISO site. References: Message-ID: <00d401c1c9d7$cbe81220$63224f50@danilo> Hi, I don't have the reference player installed here, but as I recall the key to most problems is installing the .reg file which comes along the distribution. Danilo ----- Original Message ----- From: "ramanathan" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2024 3:46 PM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] the MPEG 4 reference code from the ISO site. I am unable to run the MPEG 4 systems reference code on the ISO website due to some registry problem. If anybody out there has been able to successfully run the code, (ie the sample inputs that comes along with player3D/ scenes), please let me know as to what should be the PROPER REGISTRY CONFIGURATION for running the code. The tips given for running the application dont seem to be very clear either (for eg:How is the FileTrivInstance.dll supposed to be modified if Im1player is run from a different directory?) I am neither able to run the IM1 player nor the 3D player. Please help. This has been driving me crazy for quite some time. Regards Ramanathan. From fd97481 hotmail.com Wed Mar 13 13:09:21 2002 From: fd97481 hotmail.com (ramanathan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG 4 streams Message-ID: I am sorry to be disturbing again and again but does anybody have standard MPEG 4 streams? Also, could anybody answer in detail to the problem that I raised yesterday? Thanks and regards Ramanathan. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020313/bbe94f06/attachment.html From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Wed Mar 13 17:56:47 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/HDM) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG4 and fonts? In-Reply-To: <009101c1c9a4$883838d0$63224f50@danilo> Message-ID: <003d01c1cacd$a738aba0$260487ca@rd.francetelecom.fr> Dear Danilo, > I have some small questions regarding MPEG4 players: > 1. What fonts in the current MPEG4 players? Is there a way to > add new fonts? MPEG-4 currently does not specify resident fonts. It just specifies some limited family of fonts. It is understood that this is per se insufficient to guarantee deterministic rendering, but MPEG-4 Systems is currently working on Advanced Text and Graphic extensions that will resolve this issue. A call for proposal will be issued at the end of this week. Yes, there are ways so signal new fonts. Therefore an application body like ISMA, DVB, ATSC, ARIB, ... could further specify a more precise support of fonts for MPEG-4. One issue that is currently discussed is wether or not MPEG-4 shall mandate a minimal support for resident fonts (i.e. All terminals shall support them). It has to be international support and therefore may impact terminal footprints but has the potential to greatly improve interoperability. I would be interested to learn more about requirements from the MPEG-4 industry on this topic. > 2. Is there provision for antialiasing in the spec or is this player > dependent? This is player dependent. cu, O. From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Wed Mar 13 21:52:22 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/HDM) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG 4 streams In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <008f01c1cad1$03bfc680$260487ca@rd.francetelecom.fr> What kind of streams ? Audio, Video, Systems ? What profiles ? Some of them are available to MPEG as well as to M4IF members. cu, O. -----Message d'origine----- De : technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]De la part de ramanathan Envoy? : mercredi 13 mars 2002 08:39 ? : technotes@lists.m4if.org Objet : [M4IF Technotes] MPEG 4 streams I am sorry to be disturbing again and again but does anybody have standard MPEG 4 streams? Also, could anybody answer in detail to the problem that I raised yesterday? Thanks and regards Ramanathan. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020313/1937fe7a/attachment.html From wuks bhnec.nec.co.jp Wed Mar 13 09:12:39 2002 From: wuks bhnec.nec.co.jp (wuks@bhnec.nec.co.jp) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] how to pack the encoded huffman code into elementary stream? Message-ID: hi,anybody, when having encoded a sequence of video,how to pack the header and huffman coefficient to generate a element stream? From fd97481 hotmail.com Wed Mar 13 18:54:28 2002 From: fd97481 hotmail.com (ramanathan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG 4 streams References: <008f01c1cad1$03bfc680$260487ca@rd.francetelecom.fr> Message-ID: I would like to get some MPEG 4 systems streams Regards Ramanathan. ----- Original Message ----- From: AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/HDM To: 'ramanathan' ; technotes@lists.m4if.org Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2024 2:22 AM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG 4 streams What kind of streams ? Audio, Video, Systems ? What profiles ? Some of them are available to MPEG as well as to M4IF members. cu, O. -----Message d'origine----- De : technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]De la part de ramanathan Envoy? : mercredi 13 mars 2002 08:39 ? : technotes@lists.m4if.org Objet : [M4IF Technotes] MPEG 4 streams I am sorry to be disturbing again and again but does anybody have standard MPEG 4 streams? Also, could anybody answer in detail to the problem that I raised yesterday? Thanks and regards Ramanathan. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020313/3bf58476/attachment.html From dim psytel-research.co.yu Wed Mar 13 14:31:53 2002 From: dim psytel-research.co.yu (Ivan Dimkovic) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG 4 streams In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1452.213.240.52.139.1016026313.squirrel@webmail.verat.net> Dear Ramanathan, > I am sorry to be disturbing again and again but does anybody have > standard MPEG 4 streams? Also, could anybody answer in detail to the > problem that I raised yesterday? > I suppose you are looking for MP4 file format files - here is a small list: AAC (GA) Audio MP4 streams: http://www.psytel-research.co.yu/showcase.htm http://www.envivio.com/solutions/etv/sample.jsp Audio+Video MP4 streams: http://www.envivio.com/solutions/etv/sample.jsp (systems, too) http://www.mpeg-4player.com/downloads/videos/index.asp You might also wish to check out: http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/mpeg4ip -- Ivan From alisson dsc.ufpb.br Wed Mar 13 10:10:26 2002 From: alisson dsc.ufpb.br (Alisson Brito) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Last version of source code Message-ID: <006a01c1ca90$7161f0f0$534ba596@AlissonPessoal> Is the last version of reference software (open for download) from December 2001? Is it the N4426 document? []'s Alisson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020313/fe5eb822/attachment.html From rkoenen intertrust.com Wed Mar 13 23:38:32 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Last version of source code Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D5918801C@exchange.epr.com> the latest publicly available SW is on ISO's website. http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/14496-5_Compressed_ directories/ I don't believe that is N4426 yet. Rob -----Original Message----- From: Alisson Brito [mailto:alisson@dsc.ufpb.br] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2024 5:10 To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Last version of source code Is the last version of reference software (open for download) from December 2001? Is it the N4426 document? []'s Alisson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020313/0dec15d2/attachment.html From arvind_raman_tech yahoo.com Sat Mar 16 02:44:02 2002 From: arvind_raman_tech yahoo.com (Arvind Raman) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Unrestricted motion compensation for interlaced macroblocks Message-ID: <20020316104402.6235.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> MPEG-4 suuports unrestricted motion compensation. In the case of frame MBs (macoblocks), when the motion vector points outside the frame we just pad the last row / column of pels in the horizontal or the vertical direction to get the predictor MB. Same is done for an interlaced MB when the "horizontal" component of the motion vector points outside the frame boundary. According to my understanding of the standard the difference arises when the vertical component of the motion vector points outside the frame boundary in the case of an Interlaced MB. CASE 1 : Reference field : BOTTOM FIELD ======================================= ^ |--|----| | | | | | | | | | | |-------| As shown in the above figure, if the reference field is the BOTTOM field and the motion vector points outside the "TOP" of the frame boundary it's the TOP field (the first row of pels in the frame) which is padded to from the predictor MB CASE 2: REFERENCE FIELD : TOP FIELD =================================== |-------| | | | | | | | | | | |--|----| | V Similarly if the reference field is the TOP field and the motion vector points outside the BOTTOM of the frame boundary it's the BOTTOM field (the last row of pels in the frame) which if padded to form the predictor MB. Is my understanding of the standard correct? If so why should this distintion be done. Wouldn't it have been better to pad (extrapolate) the field of the same polarity to from the predictor MB. Thanks and regards Arvind __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ From gautam noida.hcltech.com Mon Mar 18 18:34:14 2002 From: gautam noida.hcltech.com (Gautam Kumar) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF News] Press Release - MPEG Committee Jeju Island, Korea 18 March Message-ID: Dear Schirling and All, As per the Press Release of the MPEG committee's meeting the reference code at http://megaera.ee.nctu.edu.tw/mpeg/ is optimised for simple profile. Is it optimised in term of Computation cycles or Memory requirement or both ? because i could find the core part of that code same as the earlier vervion. I have one more query regarding GMC(Global Motion Compensation) in Advanced Simple Profile (MPEG4 Video AMD-2 says GMC is supported in Advanced Simple Profile). I cann't understand if Advanced Simple Profile doesn't support Sprite VOP, how can GMC be impletmented there ? Awaiting Reply.. thanks and regards Gautam Kumar -----Original Message----- From: Peter Schirling [mailto:schirlin@us.ibm.com] Sent: Monday, March 18, 2024 4:59 AM Cc: leonardo.chiariglione@tilab.com Subject: [M4IF News] Press Release - MPEG Committee Jeju Island, Korea 18 March Ladies and Gentlemen, Please find attached the Press Release of the MPEG committee's meeting held 11-15 March 2002 (See attached file: W4567(Press Release).doc) Thank you, Pete Schirling Head of Delegation US NB Digital Media Standards IBM Research Division Office: +1 802 769 6123/Mobile: +1 802 238 2036/E-Fax: +1 802 769 7362 Internet e-mail: schirlin@us.ibm.com From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Mon Mar 18 14:10:21 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG 4 streams Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From rkoenen intertrust.com Mon Mar 18 08:51:32 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF News] Press Release - MPEG Committ ee Jeju Island, Korea 18 March Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D591880B4@exchange.epr.com> > I cann't understand if Advanced Simple Profile doesn't > support Sprite VOP, > how can GMC be impletmented there ? GMC is for the whole *moving* image. Sprites also have a way to describe transformation of the image, which can be used to code global motion. But the two are different. > profile. Is it > optimised in term of Computation cycles or Memory requirement > or both ? It is optimized in terms of performance (image quality). Best, Rob From wuks bhnec.nec.co.jp Mon Mar 18 08:48:33 2002 From: wuks bhnec.nec.co.jp (wuks@bhnec.nec.co.jp) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) Message-ID: hi,anybody what is the meaning of the parameter T(duration of the video sequence) in the area of rate control? Is it time of GOV,or VisualObjectSequence? From yosinori crl.hitachi.co.jp Tue Mar 19 10:22:22 2002 From: yosinori crl.hitachi.co.jp (Yoshinori Suzuki) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: [M4IF News] Press Release - MPEG Committee Jeju Island, Korea 18 March References: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D591880B4@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: <3C9692CE.44428950@crl.hitachi.co.jp> Dear Dr. Kumar and Rob, Rob Koenen wrote: > > > I cann't understand if Advanced Simple Profile doesn't > > support Sprite VOP, > > how can GMC be impletmented there ? > > GMC is for the whole *moving* image. > > Sprites also have a way to describe transformation > of the image, which can be used to code global motion. > > But the two are different. In my understanding, "Sprite" in the tool table means basic and low-latency sprite tools which work on S-VOP with sprite_enable==static, and "Global Motion Compensation" in that table means that the GMC tool which works on S-VOP with sprite_enable==GMC, S(GMC)-VOP. Best regards, Yoshinori Suzuki Hitachi, Ltd. From neff PacketVideo.COM Fri Mar 22 18:01:27 2002 From: neff PacketVideo.COM (Ralph Neff) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Using fixed_vop_rate Message-ID: <72263E8E8622D611975C0002B32C19D837E6CB@misty.packetvideo.com> Hi, I have a question on the use of fixed_vop_rate in MPEG-4 visual. With fixed_vop_rate == 1, what happens to the rest of the time fields (e.g. modulo_time_base and vop_time_increment)? Specifically: 1. If I author a stream and set fixed_vop_rate == 1, do I still have to maintain the fields normally used for variable display times? Or can I set them to zero-or-random values? 2. When decoding a file with fixed_vop_rate == 1, should a decoder ignore these other time fields? Or can it use them, expecting them to match the fixed rate? I'm curious because the usual time fields are present in the syntax even when using fixed_vop_rate mode, so it's not clear to me whether fixed_vop_rate is intended as a hint or as a complete override. Thanks for any help understanding this. -Ralph Ralph Neff * Packetvideo * www.pv.com neff@pv.com * phone: 858-731-5408 * fax: 858-731-5311 From garysull microsoft.com Fri Mar 22 18:27:21 2002 From: garysull microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Using fixed_vop_rate Message-ID: <0170DDAD0BADFA4CBEC3B55A0748DCCC040EF638@red-msg-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> All syntax values should obviously still be correct unless the standard says otherwise. I believe fixed_vop_rate=1 is just an indication that specific behavior in the other fields is ensured (and if the decoder sees something else, then there is some kind of problem). Just think of it as a redundant representation of the information using an overcomplete set of basis functions ;-) Best Regards, -Gary S. +> -----Original Message----- +> From: Ralph Neff [mailto:neff@packetvideo.com] +> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2024 6:01 PM +> To: technotes@lists.m4if.org +> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Using fixed_vop_rate +> +> +> +> Hi, +> +> I have a question on the use of fixed_vop_rate in MPEG-4 +> visual. With fixed_vop_rate == 1, what happens to the +> rest of the time fields (e.g. modulo_time_base and +> vop_time_increment)? Specifically: +> +> 1. If I author a stream and set fixed_vop_rate == 1, do I still +> have to maintain the fields normally used for variable +> display times? Or can I set them to zero-or-random +> values? +> 2. When decoding a file with fixed_vop_rate == 1, should a +> decoder ignore these other time fields? Or can it use them, +> expecting them to match the fixed rate? +> +> I'm curious because the usual time fields are present in the +> syntax even when using fixed_vop_rate mode, so it's not clear +> to me whether fixed_vop_rate is intended as a hint or as a +> complete override. Thanks for any help understanding this. +> +> -Ralph +> +> +> Ralph Neff * Packetvideo * www.pv.com +> neff@pv.com * phone: 858-731-5408 * fax: 858-731-5311 +> +> +> _______________________________________________ +> Technotes mailing list +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes +> From steveviegas hotmail.com Mon Mar 25 18:18:11 2002 From: steveviegas hotmail.com (steve viegas) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG video compression memory required Message-ID: Dear Group; I am putting together a video. It is about 3 minutes long. I will be running it on a five inch display. Using MPEG-4, how much memory is required to store the entire video? Is there a formula I can use to figure this out myself? Thanks, Steve _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From cwiltgen PacketVideo.COM Mon Mar 25 10:41:10 2002 From: cwiltgen PacketVideo.COM (Charles Wiltgen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG video compression memory required Message-ID: <72263E8E8622D611975C0002B32C19D8464DE2@misty.packetvideo.com> Steve, > I am putting together a video. It is about 3 minutes long. I will be > running it on a five inch display. Using MPEG-4, how much memory is > required to store the entire video? It's time * bitrate, so 180 seconds * 30 kbps = 5400 kbits = 675 KB. -- Charles Wiltgen Product Manager PacketVideo From kartika artificialgods.com Mon Mar 25 22:53:53 2002 From: kartika artificialgods.com (Kartika Tulusan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:45 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] mp4tool enst Message-ID: Dear Group, I have just started using your mpeg4tool from enst which is very useful indeed. http://www.comelec.enst.fr/~dufourd/mpeg-4/tools.html I have a question regarding including audio and video streams in an mpeg4 scene. Could you send me some example streams with the info files etc that are needed by the V2 policy? I understand from below that I will need 3 files for each media stream: >>For each raw elementary stream called stream.type, two files are expected: >> >>stream.info: contains the decoder specific info, a.k.a. the headers >>stream.nhnt: contains the description of the access units in contained in stream.type. I am not sure how to create files like this. Do you have anymore information on this or could you point me to some tools for parsing? (The enst site is mentioning some CSELT tools for the V1 policy) I basically want to encode my own video and audio files and use the mp4tool from enst to create mp4 files that have these streams included in the scenes. Thanks very much. ---------------------------------------------- Kartika Tulusan mobile: +44(0)79 3276 8522 home : +44(0)20 7377 0735 From yi.li conexant.com Tue Mar 26 17:26:40 2002 From: yi.li conexant.com (yi.li@conexant.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:45 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Is OBMC supported by SImple Profile Message-ID: Hi, there, Does any of you know if OBMC is supported by Simple Visual Profile? The 14496-2 did not give any useful information on this. Also, if the encoder doesn't support Inter-4V mode, will that cause any loss in compression efficiency and decoded video quality? Thanks for your time. Lee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020326/3519a248/attachment.html From rkoenen intertrust.com Tue Mar 26 17:37:31 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:46 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Is OBMC supported by SImple Profile Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF4F96@exchange.epr.com> Lee, the answer to this question is actually in our FAQ. (OBMC actually isn't in any profile - could be a great question for an MPEG-4 quiz) See http://www.m4if.org/resources/mpeg4userfaq.php#OBMC Best, Rob -----Original Message----- From: yi.li@conexant.com [mailto:yi.li@conexant.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2024 17:27 To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Is OBMC supported by SImple Profile Hi, there, Does any of you know if OBMC is supported by Simple Visual Profile? The 14496-2 did not give any useful information on this. Also, if the encoder doesn't support Inter-4V mode, will that cause any loss in compression efficiency and decoded video quality? Thanks for your time. Lee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020326/2cb2ff6b/attachment.html From asjabbi micron.com Tue Mar 26 18:50:19 2002 From: asjabbi micron.com (asjabbi) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:47 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Pulsent PR Message-ID: http://www.pulsent.com/press/pressrelease032502.html Does anyone have insight on their compression technique(s) ? There is also an article in the new EETimes which has a reference or two to this. - Aman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020326/1bd6fedb/attachment.html From cwiltgen PacketVideo.COM Tue Mar 26 18:12:53 2002 From: cwiltgen PacketVideo.COM (Charles Wiltgen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:47 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Pulsent PR Message-ID: <72263E8E8622D611975C0002B32C19D8464E03@misty.packetvideo.com> Aman, Apparently, they've created "a new paradigm" to "bring digital video into the 21st century" (which I'd assumed had already happened). They're doing object-based compression, which is interesting and cool when the content lends itself to that. For example, a newscast would be good content for that technique, at least until they cut to a full-screen clip of handheld content. My question: Is a 400% improvement in video compression efficiency over MPEG-2 impressive to anyone on this list? -- Charles Wiltgen Product Manager PacketVideo -----Original Message----- From: asjabbi [mailto:asjabbi@micron.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2024 5:50 PM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Pulsent PR http://www.pulsent.com/press/pressrelease032502.html Does anyone have insight on their compression technique(s) ? There is also an article in the new EETimes which has a reference or two to this. - Aman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020326/1773cbb0/attachment.html From rkoenen intertrust.com Tue Mar 26 18:16:45 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:47 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Pulsent PR Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF4F98@exchange.epr.com> I have read the news - there are many such announcements, most of them just go away, but I don't mean to imply that this is one of those. The bitrates and qualities that are quoted are in line with those quoted for MPEG-4 Advanced Simple, the JVT codec, and state-of-the-art existing proprietary technologies. I heard an unconfirmed report that it is excruciatingly slow to encode using a commercial-grade PC SW encoder (a very important requirement when we define the MPEG-4 techniques), and that it would require many many hours to encode a single hour of video. Having said all that, the only thing sensible thing left to say is: show me, and I may believe it. It is impossible to judge these claims from well-worded press announcements. Rob -----Original Message----- From: asjabbi [mailto:asjabbi@micron.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2024 17:50 To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Pulsent PR http://www.pulsent.com/press/pressrelease032502.html Does anyone have insight on their compression technique(s) ? There is also an article in the new EETimes which has a reference or two to this. - Aman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020326/8989610c/attachment.html From rkoenen intertrust.com Tue Mar 26 18:25:25 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Pulsent PR Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF4F9A@exchange.epr.com> > They're doing object-based compression, which is interesting > and cool when the content lends itself to that. For example, > a newscast would be good content for that technique, at least > until they cut to a full-screen clip of handheld content. ... which is nothing new in itself, I have often seen this deomstrated with the still block-based MPEG-4. E.g. Enquad showed some interesting results last year, in spite of my disbelief that it would ever be useful for compression efficiency (I have always believed in objects for use in interactive content creation) Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020326/94b9b1f7/attachment.html From garysull microsoft.com Tue Mar 26 19:10:29 2002 From: garysull microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Is OBMC supported by SImple Profile Message-ID: <0170DDAD0BADFA4CBEC3B55A0748DCCC05B66E39@red-msg-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From wjf NetworkXXIII.com Tue Mar 26 19:42:24 2002 From: wjf NetworkXXIII.com (William J. Fulco) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Pulsent PR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Aman, At the risk of offending some - EETimes is a fun publication to read these days - but very often they (more or less) just publish "the company line" and create all kinds of panic, depression, disillusionment, excitement, high-expectations and lots of good old FUD in their readership (mostly engineers that aren't exposed daily to the many and varied world of spin). It's not like "the old days" at EETimes, when they had some very hardedge tech folks that could ask these firms tough questions to ferret-out the VaporWare, PRWare and VCFundingWare from the true technology breakthroughs and milestones. Pulsent sounds interesting, however I'm waiting to press my video-compression nose against their screen, observe what hand-picked clips they show off their technology with (we all do it :-) and how small their files are... I'm guessing NAB will be our first chance to really see what's what. ++Bill William J. Fulco wjf@NetworkXXIII.com 310-927-4263 Cell --------------- Logic: When you absolutely, definitely, positively must refute every fallacy in the room. -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of asjabbi Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2024 5:50 PM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Pulsent PR http://www.pulsent.com/press/pressrelease032502.html Does anyone have insight on their compression technique(s) ? There is also an article in the new EETimes which has a reference or two to this. - Aman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020326/478e614e/attachment.html From wjf NetworkXXIII.com Tue Mar 26 23:34:33 2002 From: wjf NetworkXXIII.com (William J. Fulco) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Pulsent PR In-Reply-To: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF4FA2@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: Rob, Sorry about that - I was almost sure I heard they'd be there - maybe in a suite - but looking back on my notes, I don't find any reference to them - so I must have dreamed this up.... Too many all-nighters here. ++Bill -----Original Message----- From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2024 10:11 PM To: 'William J. Fulco' Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Pulsent PR Bill - Are you sure they are present at NAB? Or are you just guessing? I checked the NAB website and didn't find their name in the exhibitors list. thanks, Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020326/e6222c7b/attachment.html From wuks bhnec.nec.co.jp Wed Mar 27 17:17:10 2002 From: wuks bhnec.nec.co.jp (wuks@bhnec.nec.co.jp) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) Message-ID: hi, what is the meaning of the parameter modulo_time_base in theVOP,can somebody give a example? thank for your time! From s.voukelatos indigovision.com Wed Mar 27 09:52:34 2002 From: s.voukelatos indigovision.com (Stathis Voukelatos) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) Message-ID: <1F3071585480D5118B8E00B0D0AA31145BF680@ThisAddressDoesNotExist> Hi, The modulo_time_base is used to reconstruct at the decoder a time base with one second resolution. The way I understand it, in practice it represents the number of full seconds that have elapsed since the last decoded VOP with a non-zero modulo_time_base (or since the time code indicated by a GOV header if there was one). The number of seconds are stored as a series of '1' followed by a '0' at the end. As a simple example if you take a stream with a constant frame rate of 30 fps, then for every 30th VOP the modulo_time_base will be '10' (binary) while for all other VOPs it will be '0'. Cheers, Stathis Stathis Voukelatos, PhD Software Engineer IndigoVision Ltd The Edinburgh Technopole Bush Loan, Edinburgh Scotland, UK EH26 0PJ +44 (0)131 4757345 +44 (0)131 4757201 (Fax) http://www.indigovision.com > -----Original Message----- > From: wuks@bhnec.nec.co.jp [mailto:wuks@bhnec.nec.co.jp] > Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2024 9:17 AM > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) > > > hi, > > what is the meaning of the parameter modulo_time_base in > theVOP,can > somebody give a example? > > thank for your time! > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on the above detailed phone number and delete the message from your computer: you may not copy or forward this e-mail, or use or disclose its contents to any other person. We thank you in anticipation for your assistance. As internet communications are capable of data corruption no responsibility is accepted for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on information contained in this e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. In addition, no liability or responsibility is accepted for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan any attachments to this e-mail. Nothing in this e-mail shall constitute or be construed as constituting an offer, obligation or an acceptance of any offer previously made. Opinions, comments and other information in this e-mail that do not relate to the business of IndigoVision Group plc, IndigoVision Limited and/or IndigoVision, Inc. shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by the companies or any of them. From kartika artificialgods.com Wed Mar 27 10:48:45 2002 From: kartika artificialgods.com (Kartika Tulusan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MEDIA streams Message-ID: Hi, sorry to ask again !!!! I have a question regarding including audio and video streams in an mpeg4 scene. Does anyone know another mailing list where I could obtain the information ? Could you send me some example streams with the info files etc that are needed by the V2 policy? I understand from below that I will need 3 files for each media stream: >>For each raw elementary stream called stream.type, two files are expected: >> >>stream.info: contains the decoder specific info, a.k.a. the headers >>stream.nhnt: contains the description of the access units in contained in stream.type. I am not sure how to create files like this. Do you have anymore information on this or could you point me to some tools for parsing? (The enst site is mentioning some CSELT tools for the V1 policy) I basically want to encode my own video and audio files and use the mp4tool from enst to create mp4 files that have these streams included in the scenes. Thanks very much. Looking forward to hear from you soon, Kind Regards, Kartika Tulusan -------------------------------------------- BSc. Multimedia Computing University of Westminster, London mobile: +44(0)79 3276 8522 home : +44(0)20 7377 0735 From s.voukelatos indigovision.com Wed Mar 27 11:17:19 2002 From: s.voukelatos indigovision.com (Stathis Voukelatos) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MEDIA streams Message-ID: <1F3071585480D5118B8E00B0D0AA31145E49AB@ThisAddressDoesNotExist> Hi Kartika, In order to use the 'mp4tool' of ENST except of your data stream yout need two additional files as you say (the .nhnt and .info). If you have access to the source code of your video and audio encoders I think the easiest way is to configure you encoder to generate these files along with your data stream. Otherwise you have to write a parser that parses a bitstream and generates these files. You can find the format of the NHNT file in http://www.comelec.enst.fr/~dufourd/mpeg-4/tools.html Basically for each access unit (i.e. for each frame in the case of video)the NHNT file contains a record with info like its length, timestamp, offset from the beginning of the file etc. The content of the INFO file (the decoder specific info as it is called) is given by the MPEG-4 standard itself. You can find it in the Systems part of the standard. In the case of an MPEG-4 video stream for example, the INFO file should contain the bitstream header, that is the part of the stream until the first vop_start_code. Actually, it is not as difficult as it looks to write a bitstream parser to generate those files, because media streams contain unique start codes that mark the access unit boundaries and so you just have to search for them in the bitstream. I hope this helps, Stathis Stathis Voukelatos, PhD Software Engineer IndigoVision Ltd The Edinburgh Technopole Bush Loan, Edinburgh Scotland, UK EH26 0PJ +44 (0)131 4757345 +44 (0)131 4757201 (Fax) http://www.indigovision.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Kartika Tulusan [mailto:kartika@artificialgods.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2024 10:49 AM > To: Technotes M4IF > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MEDIA streams > > > Hi, > sorry to ask again !!!! > I have a question regarding including audio and video streams > in an mpeg4 > scene. > Does anyone know another mailing list where I could obtain > the information ? > > Could you send me some example streams with the info files > etc that are > needed > by the V2 policy? > I understand from below that I will need 3 files for each > media stream: > >>For each raw elementary stream called stream.type, two > files are expected: > >> > >>stream.info: contains the decoder specific info, a.k.a. the headers > >>stream.nhnt: contains the description of the access units > in contained in > stream.type. > > I am not sure how to create files like this. Do you have > anymore information > on this > or could you point me to some tools for parsing? (The enst site is > mentioning some CSELT tools for > the V1 policy) > > I basically want to encode my own video and audio files and > use the mp4tool > from enst to create > mp4 files that have these streams included in the scenes. > > Thanks very much. > > Looking forward to hear from you soon, > Kind Regards, > Kartika Tulusan > -------------------------------------------- > BSc. Multimedia Computing > University of Westminster, London > mobile: +44(0)79 3276 8522 > home : +44(0)20 7377 0735 > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on the above detailed phone number and delete the message from your computer: you may not copy or forward this e-mail, or use or disclose its contents to any other person. We thank you in anticipation for your assistance. As internet communications are capable of data corruption no responsibility is accepted for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on information contained in this e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. In addition, no liability or responsibility is accepted for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan any attachments to this e-mail. Nothing in this e-mail shall constitute or be construed as constituting an offer, obligation or an acceptance of any offer previously made. Opinions, comments and other information in this e-mail that do not relate to the business of IndigoVision Group plc, IndigoVision Limited and/or IndigoVision, Inc. shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by the companies or any of them. From 94426082 eeng.dcu.ie Wed Mar 27 12:08:15 2002 From: 94426082 eeng.dcu.ie (Nikki) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Real-time codec & player help Message-ID: <020101c1d588$1354d600$f523ce88@anca> Hi - I was wondering if any one could point me to a real-time MPEG-4 (preferably systems, preferably with source code) codec that will hook into a player. As I receive encoded data through a stack implemented in java - I would like to send it through a Data/FileOutputStream to a client decoder that will play out and decode the bytes as they are received. Any help or directions are greatly appreciated from an extremely frustrated post-grad researcher. Kind regards, Nikki -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020327/fa3a41e3/attachment.html From tlm demografx.com Wed Mar 27 05:27:18 2002 From: tlm demografx.com (Tom McMahon) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Pulsent PR Message-ID: http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/OEG20020322S0105 From wjf NetworkXXIII.com Wed Mar 27 05:46:29 2002 From: wjf NetworkXXIII.com (William J. Fulco) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Pulsent PR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MessageThanks Tom - I guess in my all-nigher haze I must have surfed over to EETimes :-) -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Tom McMahon Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2024 5:27 AM To: William J. Fulco; Rob Koenen Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Pulsent PR http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/OEG20020322S0105 From EETimes: "Scheduled for private previews in Las Vegas next month at the National Association of Broadcasters' (NAB) convention, Pulsent Corp.'s technology - and a host of similar developments both inside and outside the Moving Picture Experts Group - could ignite debate as the industry looks beyond the current slate of standards for digital video compression. " -----Original Message----- From: William J. Fulco [mailto:wjf@NetworkXXIII.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2024 11:35 PM To: Rob Koenen Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Pulsent PR Rob, Sorry about that - I was almost sure I heard they'd be there - maybe in a suite - but looking back on my notes, I don't find any reference to them - so I must have dreamed this up.... Too many all-nighters here. ++Bill -----Original Message----- From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2024 10:11 PM To: 'William J. Fulco' Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Pulsent PR Bill - Are you sure they are present at NAB? Or are you just guessing? I checked the NAB website and didn't find their name in the exhibitors list. thanks, Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020327/9ac3be55/attachment.html From y.syed CableLabs.com Wed Mar 27 08:55:17 2002 From: y.syed CableLabs.com (Yasser Syed) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Pulsent PR Message-ID: <4DF5E8A771ECD21187020008C7B1C5AF02713AF2@srvmail.cablelabs.com> If you look on their website, pulsent said they'll be at NAB (although maybe it is only a private suite). - Yasser -----Original Message----- From: William J. Fulco [mailto:wjf@networkxxiii.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2024 12:35 AM To: Rob Koenen Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Pulsent PR Rob, Sorry about that - I was almost sure I heard they'd be there - maybe in a suite - but looking back on my notes, I don't find any reference to them - so I must have dreamed this up.... Too many all-nighters here. ++Bill -----Original Message----- From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2024 10:11 PM To: 'William J. Fulco' Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Pulsent PR Bill - Are you sure they are present at NAB? Or are you just guessing? I checked the NAB website and didn't find their name in the exhibitors list. thanks, Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020327/38a97ed7/attachment.html From wjf NetworkXXIII.com Wed Mar 27 10:35:29 2002 From: wjf NetworkXXIII.com (William J. Fulco) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Pulsent PR In-Reply-To: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59AF4FBE@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: Rob, I don't know - well - let's see - we could... ah... call them up and say "hey, Rob and Bill and a bunch of their friend wanna come look-see! I can give them a ring later today - I think LA and SF are in the same time-zone still :) - though I suspect that this is an invite-only perhaps NDA type of arrangement (though, THAT is only a guess). I can put on my "industry analyst" hat (one of the many fascinating things consulting video-compression technologists get to do for fun and profit) and book an appointment - and report-back to the list (within the bounds of any NDA of course). ++Bill -----Original Message----- From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rkoenen@intertrust.com] So that's where you must have seen it Bill - let's see if we can find them. Rob -----Original Message----- From: Yasser Syed [mailto:y.syed@CableLabs.com] If you look on their website, pulsent said they'll be at NAB (although maybe it is only a private suite). - Yasse -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020327/9707c408/attachment.html From aara10 hotmail.com Thu Mar 28 08:56:26 2002 From: aara10 hotmail.com (Alejandro RAMIREZ) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] help me.... Message-ID: Dear All: Can anyone suggest where can I get technical info about differences beetwen MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 (implementation DCT, motion estimation, software architecture, ,algorithms....), are there important difference? Can anyone help me? Thank you. best regards Ramirez Alejandro _________________________________________________________________ Discutez en ligne avec vos amis, essayez MSN Messenger?: http://messenger.msn.fr -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: unknown sender Subject: no subject Date: no date Size: 38 Url: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020328/4fd4354b/attachment.txt From wuks bhnec.nec.co.jp Thu Mar 28 17:19:46 2002 From: wuks bhnec.nec.co.jp (wuks@bhnec.nec.co.jp) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) Message-ID: hi, what is the function of the complexity_estimation_disable ,and is there any profiles@levels support it? thank for your time! From knkneib knk-mpeg.com Thu Mar 28 15:06:37 2002 From: knkneib knk-mpeg.com (Kristine N. Kneib, Ph.D.) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] help me.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020328145556.00acf870@pop3.norton.antivirus> Good Afternoon Alejandro, Regarding your request to "technotes" for technical information: Please check out our upcoming seminar series May 14-22, 2002 in Silicon Valley. It provides detailed technical and product descriptions, discussions and analyses on MPEG4, MPEG1 & MPEG2 and DTV Systems. Specifically, "MPEG4 Technologies and Applications" addresses your immediate needs. Information can be found at www.knk-mpeg.com/indexsem.html Best regards, Kristine Kneib ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kristine N. Kneib, Ph.D. - KNK Seminars & Strategies Making MPEG Work for You! 6333 La Jolla Blvd., Ste. 376 - La Jolla - CA 92037-6622 Tel: 858-459-8058 - Fax: 858-459-3654 www.knk-mpeg.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ At 08:56 AM 3/28/02 +0100, you wrote: >Dear All: > >Can anyone suggest where can I get technical info about differences >beetwen MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 (implementation DCT, motion estimation, software >architecture, >,algorithms....), are there important difference? > >Can anyone help me? > >Thank you. > >best regards > >Ramirez Alejandro -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020328/5c4211d3/attachment.html From olivier.amato canalweb.net Fri Mar 29 17:31:42 2002 From: olivier.amato canalweb.net (Olivier Amato) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:07:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 products needed for interoperability testings References: <31F8C9098B52D41193FA00508BC81B420231A69D@iee-73-200.iee.org.uk> Message-ID: <009001c1d73f$362720d0$31e40bd5@olivier> Resonate MP4 and Canalweb will make a presentation during next MPEG-4 congress in Paris ( www.upperside.fr/mpeg42001/mpeg42001intro.htm ). This presentation will be mainly focussed on interoperability issues between available MPEG-4 implementations. We are looking for manufacturers and software developers who could send us their products ( encoders, servers, players ) and allow us show the results of our testings. We are also interested in DRM developments for MPEG-4 content. Anybody interested can contact me directly for more details. Thanks in advance. Olivier Amato Canalweb, France.