From t-nomura ccm.cl.nec.co.jp Mon Sep 2 12:09:25 2002 From: t-nomura ccm.cl.nec.co.jp (Toshiyuki Nomura) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:39 2003 Subject: [Fwd: [M4IF Technotes] CELP Encoder] In-Reply-To: <3D6E206B.1584460@ccm.cl.nec.co.jp> References: <3D6E206B.1584460@ccm.cl.nec.co.jp> Message-ID: <20020902110727.A914.T-NOMURA@ccm.cl.nec.co.jp> Dear Jeyaprakash, Thank you for your comment. > the n_lpc_analysis value for 8 KHz is given as (sbfrm_size/80) > Can you please confirm whether it is sbfrm_size or frame_size. It should be frame_size. Toshiyuki Nomura, NEC --------------------- From lcheng62 yahoo.com Mon Sep 2 14:48:52 2002 From: lcheng62 yahoo.com (Liang Cheng) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:39 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question on the rate control on "fpdam-1.0-000703" Message-ID: <20020902204852.28421.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I have a questions when I trace the MS MP4 code for the rate control. I found in the par file of fpdam-1.0-000703, the parameter for specifying the bitstream is not vop.bitstream, instead, it is RateControl.BitsPerVOP. However, when I read the code, I can't understand the following: "rgpvoenc [BASE_LAYER]->m_tm5rc.tm5rc_init_seq ( pchQname,rgpvoenc [BASE_LAYER]-> m_uiRateControl,m_rgvolmd [BASE_LAYER] [iVOrelative].fAUsage, m_rctOrg.width, m_rctOrg.height(),(UInt)((m_rguiBudget [BASE_LAYER] [iVOrelative] * m_rgvolmd [BASE_LAYER][iVOrelative].dFrameHz) / (m_iLastFrame - m_iFirstFrame + 1)), m_rgvolmd ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [BASE_LAYER][iVOrelative].dFrameHz", which is in "sesenc.cpp" around line. 693. I can't see any reason to include the number of frames to be encoding in the rate control mechanism. Can anybody help me out? Thanks, Liang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From emre.aksu nokia.com Tue Sep 3 13:22:25 2002 From: emre.aksu nokia.com (emre.aksu@nokia.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Visual Object Sequence Start Code Message-ID: Hi, I got 2 "No"s and a "yes" for my question related to the Visual Object Sequence Start Code usage (please read the end of this mail for the question), which made me think that this issue is not clear. I also think that this kind of a usage should not be possible, but when I checked the bitstream syntax, it seems to be possible. From chris avipix.com Tue Sep 3 10:02:31 2002 From: chris avipix.com (Christopher Wendt) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Visual Object Sequence Start Code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <684B6B51-BF3D-11D6-BC16-000393031D76@avipix.com> Hi Emre, Having multiple visual_object_sequence_start_code's without question should be supported by all decoders. There are many applications that need to support this including live broadcasting and other applications involving potential channel errors. -Chris _____________________________________ Christopher Wendt, Avipix Technology Corp chris@avipix.com 484.951.4932 http://www.avipix.com From Giuliano.Catrambone h3g.it Tue Sep 3 16:35:12 2002 From: Giuliano.Catrambone h3g.it (Catrambone Giuliano) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 'config' parameter within the 'fmtp' SDP field Message-ID: <5A830F2A9C8FD144B6031E3D5D7EA2A74440CD@MIEXC01.h3g.it> Hi, The streaming server build the SDP for the answer to the RTSP DESCRIBE command. I know that the SDP 'fmtp' field, should contain the cpresent parameter. The streaming server decides if this parameter (cpresent) will be set to 0 or 1. In case of an AAC media track and the cpresent parameter is set to 0, how is able the streaming server to build the 'config' parameter? I know that the streaming server take the decoderSpecificInfo from the metadata (mp4a atom) and he add before and after to the decoderSpecificInfo some bits. From where he take these bits to build the config field? rgds giuliano -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020903/2bc9b4be/attachment.html From emre.aksu nokia.com Tue Sep 3 17:45:54 2002 From: emre.aksu nokia.com (emre.aksu@nokia.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Visual Object Sequence Start Code Message-ID: Hi Christopher, > Having multiple visual_object_sequence_start_code's without question > should be supported by all decoders. There are many > applications that > need to support this including live broadcasting and other > applications > involving potential channel errors. For sure, I have no problems with that. I think you can put in as many visual_object_sequence_start_codes as you like, as long as you have a visual_object_sequence_end_code finalizing a previous strat code, I think. Otherwise, how can we identify a serialized structure of visual object sequences? Once again, a reference from 14996-2:2001: Section 6.1.1: " Visual object sequence is the highest syntactic structure of the coded visual bitstream. A visual object sequence commences with a visual_object_sequence_start_code which is followed by one or more visual objects coded concurrently. The visual object sequence is terminated by a visual_object_sequence_end_code." How should we interpret the first and last sentences together, if we allow randomly inserted visual_object_sequence_start_codes ending a previous visual object sequence? The very same structure ( visual_object_sequence_start_code followed by another visual_object_sequence_start_code) can be interpreted as a frame loss by the decoder, which was expecting a visual_object_sequence_end_code before a start code as stated in section 6.1.1. Best Regards, Emre Emre Baris Aksu Nokia Corp. > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Christopher Wendt [mailto:chris@avipix.com] > Sent: 03. September 2002 16:03 > To: Aksu Emre (NMP/Tampere) > Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Visual Object Sequence Start Code > > > Hi Emre, > > Having multiple visual_object_sequence_start_code's without question > should be supported by all decoders. There are many > applications that > need to support this including live broadcasting and other > applications > involving potential channel errors. > > -Chris > > _____________________________________ > Christopher Wendt, Avipix Technology Corp > chris@avipix.com > 484.951.4932 > http://www.avipix.com > > From Giuliano.Catrambone h3g.it Tue Sep 3 17:46:29 2002 From: Giuliano.Catrambone h3g.it (Catrambone Giuliano) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] iods & 3GPP Message-ID: <5A830F2A9C8FD144B6031E3D5D7EA2A73B627A@MIEXC01.h3g.it> Hi, I know that the iods atom is mandatory in ISO spec. Do you know if the iods atom is mandatory in the 3GPP? giuliano -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020903/efd6f1b4/attachment.html From richard sorenson.com Tue Sep 3 11:18:23 2002 From: richard sorenson.com (Richard Shields) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] iods & 3GPP Message-ID: <70A238C106788B49A1B7B46C050DEDFE6DF56C@pandora.sorenson.com> Giuliano, The 3GPP spec that I have states that "MPEG-4 system architectural elements (e.g. BIFS scene description tracks or OD Object descriptors) are optional and shall be ignored." (clause 9.2.4). -Richard -----Original Message----- From: Catrambone Giuliano [mailto:Giuliano.Catrambone@h3g.it] Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2023 8:46 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] iods & 3GPP Hi, I know that the iods atom is mandatory in ISO spec. Do you know if the iods atom is mandatory in the 3GPP? giuliano -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020903/f4d33118/attachment.html From singer apple.com Tue Sep 3 10:49:51 2002 From: singer apple.com (Dave Singer) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] iods & 3GPP In-Reply-To: <70A238C106788B49A1B7B46C050DEDFE6DF56C@pandora.sorenson.com> References: <70A238C106788B49A1B7B46C050DEDFE6DF56C@pandora.sorenson.com> Message-ID: At 10:18 -0600 9/3/02, Richard Shields wrote: >Giuliano, > > > >The 3GPP spec that I have states that "MPEG-4 system architectural >elements (e.g. BIFS scene description tracks or OD Object >descriptors) are optional and shall be ignored." (clause 9.2.4). It's no longer mandatory in the ISO spec, by the way, as MP4 files can be the target of an ES URL, or the target of a data-reference, even in the mpeg-4 context. But yes, these elements aren't used by or needed in the 3G spec. > > > >-Richard > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Catrambone Giuliano [mailto:Giuliano.Catrambone@h3g.it] >Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2023 8:46 AM >To: technotes@lists.m4if.org >Subject: [M4IF Technotes] iods & 3GPP > > > >Hi, > > I know that the iods atom is mandatory in ISO spec. > > Do you know if the iods atom is mandatory in the 3GPP? > > > > giuliano > > > > -- David Singer Apple Computer/QuickTime -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020903/22e7aee4/attachment.html From boris envivio.com Tue Sep 3 11:50:38 2002 From: boris envivio.com (Boris Felts) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] iods & 3GPP In-Reply-To: References: <70A238C106788B49A1B7B46C050DEDFE6DF56C@pandora.sorenson.com> Message-ID: <1031075438.3d74f66e2bf30@email.envivio.com> From yangwj lucent.com Mon Sep 2 15:20:25 2002 From: yangwj lucent.com (Yang, Wei Jian (Mac)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] help on segmentation Message-ID: <6999EF22C12CD4119A6800508B65021F0244E15C@CI0027EXCH001U> hello: I use Momusys demo software. It requires akiyo.seg when coding. Can you tell me where to get the file? If I treat the akiyo.yuv as a 352*288 rectangle without Aplha plane, Can I use 0xff for each pixel in .seg file? Thanks Yang, Wei Jian (Mac) Bell labs, Shanghai Lucent Technologies (China) Co., Ltd. Tel: 8621-5450-4555 ext. 8610 Fax: 8621-5490-2106 E-mail: yangwj@lucent.com From egoam libero.it Tue Sep 3 11:55:04 2002 From: egoam libero.it (egoam@libero.it) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Question_on_MoMuSys_FGS_Reference_Software?= Message-ID: Hi all, I'm a student at the University of Rome3 and I'm working on MPEG-4. In particular I'm interested in object based FGS. I'm using MoMuSys FGS Reference Software and I can encode and decode successfully rectangular sequences, but I have problems when I use sequences and binary alpha planes. I manage to encode successfully a video object but when I try to decode the bistreams I receive the message: Initialize FGS data array... ERROR(ecalloc): Wrong size: <=0 Could someone help me? Thanks in advance, Andrea Ambrosioni From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Tue Sep 3 22:54:29 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Interactive within interactive Message-ID: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC1010101E3C9@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> Hi Nik, > I understand the concept of abstracting out audio video objects, which > can then be composed as you like, but could one of these > objects in turn > be *another* mpeg-4 file with its own interactivity etc.? Yes, this is definitly possible. BIFS offers this kind of interactivity. > So if we had a complex mpeg-4 file exhibiting interactivity (still not > sure-is this likely to be advanced simple profile?), could we then > interact with a similar file (same profile) embedded somewhere within > it? The interactivity is described independently from the video or audio object in the form of a BIFS stream. So advanced simple profile (a video profile) does not help you for that. You need a scene description (BIFS) profile. Then you can compose interactive scenes with virtually any level of embedding. Each of these scenes can be stored in independant MP4 files or packaged in a single one. Kind regards, Olivier From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Tue Sep 3 22:55:04 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] multiple audio tracks into an mp4 file Message-ID: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC1010101E3CA@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> Hi Nico, Maybe you can make those streams available and someone can check what is wrong ... cu, O. > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Nico Oorts [mailto:nico.oorts@xmt.be] > Envoye : jeudi 8 aout 2002 14:38 > A : technotes@lists.m4if.org > Objet : [M4IF Technotes] multiple audio tracks into an mp4 file > > > Hi all, > > With the mp4tool (JC Dufourd), I try to make a .mp4 file > which contains > multiple audiotracks. I make a scene with an audiosource. This > audiosource has an url to the OD which contains the > elementary stream. > After some time I replace the audiosource by another which > has also an > url to an OD and ES. The result is an .mp4 which contains the > tracks (I > can check this with some tools and size), but play only the > first track. > Some ideas why this does not work? > > Thx > > Nico Oorts > Research team > VRT > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Tue Sep 3 22:55:16 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Is standard conform to put mp3 sound in aMPEG-4 stream ? Message-ID: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC1010101E3CB@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> Well yes, it does mean that QT6 doesn't do layer 3 in MP4. QT6 supports a few profiles in MP4, and we currently don't cover the 'old' formats (MPEG1 and MPEG2) in an MP4 context. I'd be curious to know, however, if we have the same understanding of the structures which would say "this is layer3 audio". can you briefly summarize your understanding of the profile, level, streamtype, objecttype, decoderspecificinfo, and access unit format? Since MP3 is a spec. that MPEG *owns*, I think it will be a very valuable contribution to clarify all this in the MPEG spec. I think streamtype and objecttype are very clear : - streamtype shall be 0x05 (this is an AudiioStream) - objecttype shall be 0x6B (this is Audio ISO/IEC 11172-3 MPEG-1 Audio) (Maybe we could have more depending on P&L of ISO/IEC 11172-3). For decoderspecficinfo, although we could make something elaborate, I guess we can also leave it empty and rely on the *in-band* signaling of MP3.This needs further thought however (such as to investigate if P&L for 11172-3 are properly signalled in MP3 files). Concerning Access Unit definition, yes, this needs to be clarified and findthe could trade-off between being consistent with the MPEG-4 framework and minimize the transformation of MP3 files. As far as MPEG-4 Audio Profile and Level are concerned, I concur with Rob, if there is a demand for MPEG-4 P&L supporting MP3, this can be done. This could also be done in industry fora like ISMA (ex : "we support this and this MPEG-4 P&L + MP3"). Kind regards, Olivier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020903/950f3589/attachment.html From dmackie cisco.com Tue Sep 3 14:21:22 2002 From: dmackie cisco.com (DaveMackie) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Is standard conform to put mp3 sound in aMPEG-4 stream ? References: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC1010101E3CB@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> Message-ID: <3D7519C2.6020806@cisco.com> In ISO/IEC 14496-1:2001, Section 8.6.7.2 DecoderSpecificInfo Semantics (pp 31-32), I see "For values of DecoderConfigDescriptor.objectTypeIndication that refer to streams complying with ISO/IEC 13818-3 the decoder specific information is empty since all necessary data is in the bitstream itself. The access units in this case are the frame() bitstream element as is defined in ISO/IEC 11172-3." There is no specific mention of the case of 11172-3, but it would seem to me bizare to apply different rules for 11172-3 and 13818-3. Dave Mackie Cisco Systems AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN wrote: > > > > Well yes, it does mean that QT6 doesn't do layer 3 in MP4. QT6 > supports a few profiles in MP4, and we currently don't cover the > 'old' formats (MPEG1 and MPEG2) in an MP4 context. > > I'd be curious to know, however, if we have the same understanding > of the structures which would say "this is layer3 audio". can you > briefly summarize your understanding of the profile, level, > streamtype, objecttype, decoderspecificinfo, and access unit format? > > Since MP3 is a spec. that MPEG *owns*, I think it will be a very > valuable contribution to clarify all this in the MPEG spec. > > I think streamtype and objecttype are very clear : > - streamtype shall be 0x05 (this is an AudiioStream) > - objecttype shall be 0x6B (this is Audio ISO/IEC 11172-3 MPEG-1 > Audio) > (Maybe we could have more depending on P&L of ISO/IEC 11172-3). > > For decoderspecficinfo, although we could make something > elaborate, I guess we can also leave it empty and rely on the > *in-band* signaling of MP3.This needs further thought however > (such as to investigate if P&L for 11172-3 are properly signalled > in MP3 files). > > Concerning Access Unit definition, yes, this needs to be clarified > and findthe could trade-off between being consistent with the > MPEG-4 framework and minimize the transformation of MP3 files. > > As far as MPEG-4 Audio Profile and Level are concerned, I concur > with Rob, if there is a demand for MPEG-4 P&L supporting MP3, this > can be done. This could also be done in industry fora like ISMA > (ex : "we support this and this MPEG-4 P&L + MP3"). > > Kind regards, > > Olivier > From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Tue Sep 3 23:46:19 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Is standard conform to put mp3 sound in aMPEG-4 stream ? Message-ID: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC1010101E3DA@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> Seems that this solves the issue : - streamtype shall be 0x05 (this is an AudiioStream) - objecttype shall be 0x6B (this is Audio ISO/IEC 11172-3 MPEG-1 Audio) - decoderspecficinfo : empty - access units in this case are the frame() bitstream element as is defined in ISO/IEC 11172-3. Just if someone knowledgeable on ISO/IEC 11172-3 can confirm that the signaling of possible P&L are done in-band ... Anybody ? Kind regards, Olivier From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Wed Sep 4 00:16:49 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] iods & 3GPP Message-ID: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC1010101E3E0@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> > Some MPEG-4 players interpret this iods, bifs and OD > information to support > multiple MPEG-4 objects. In the case of 3GPP, this > information is optional > since the structure is pretty simple and does not require > such information. You > might want to add it in the file if you wish to be compatible > with ISO but non- > 3GPP players. I would very much support this. The reasons why 3GPP departs from the MPEG-4 models are all but non technical. 3GPP could very much have used the mechanisms in place without ANY additionnal complexity. Keeping files always compatible with ISO MPEG-4 will ensure easy exchange from the mobile environment to the internet environment. The 3GPP current design, although compliant as far as the file format is concerned, is very limited and not future proof. It lacks support of many important features (like IPMP, dynamique scene descriptions, ...) that will need to be re-invented in a near future. Kinde regards, Olivier From ben interframemedia.com Tue Sep 3 16:13:31 2002 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Books In-Reply-To: Message-ID: (Rob Koenen asked me to copy this over from the Streaming Media MPEG-4 list) Folks, There are a number of books about and discussing MPEG-4 out now. I got the "The MPEG-4 Book" edited by Fernando Pereira and Touradj Ebrahimi last week. It is quite good, and definitely the first truly useful reference on MPEG-4. Finally, an actual document which covers all the tools, profiles, and levels used in the myriad facets of the MPEG-4 standard! Compared to the standard itself, it's much more readable and much, much cheaper. The book also has an interesting overview of the MPEG-4 standards process, and information on verification. Overall, it's a must have for anyone involved in the creation of MPEG-4 products, and technically inclined content folks looking to implement MPEG-4 solutions. It's not the kind of book that gets read cover to cover, but I've found myself pulling it down from the bookshelf a couple times a day since I've got it, answering a question in 30 seconds that would have taken 30 minutes on the web. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0130616214/benwaggoner-20 This is the first MPEG-4 book I've found worthy to add to my favorite compression books section of my website: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm Another interesting but somewhat disingenuously titled book is "MPEG-4 Jump-Start" by Aaron E. Walsh and Mikael Bourges-Sevenier. It's really all about doing rich media in MPEG-4. It looks like it would be very useful for anyone doings BIFS, but doesn't have much applicable to the audio/video/streaming side of things. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0130600369/benwaggoner-20 There is also the compelling sounding, but as yet unread "MPEG-4 Demystified" by Peter Symes. Amazon only has it as some kind of special order, and mine hasn't shown up yet. This is surprising, since his previous books haven't had any unusual distribution. Anyway, I haven't read this book yet, but Symes's excellent "Video Compression Demystified" was a clearly written and well illustrated introduction to modern video and audio codecs. If his MPEG-4 book is half as good, it'll be great. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0071388893/benwaggoner-20 And I just discovered that Amazon.com is now shipping MY book about video compression (a couple of weeks early)! The book is for hands-on compressionists, and covers compression theory, preprocessing, workflow, and many formats. MPEG-4 has its own pretty long chapter (which Rob Koenen helped me out with). http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/157820111X/benwaggoner-20 Should definitely be useful for those looking to make MPEG-4 audio and Video files. Those making MPEG-4 compression tools would probably find the sections on preprocessing and compression tools, and the tutorials, very useful in understanding what mainstream commercial encoding tools look like and do. There are a number of other forthcoming MPEG-4 books that look very interesting, like one from the voluble John Watkinson, and a followup to "Jump-Start." Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding My Book: http://www.benwaggoner.com/books.htm Cleaner Tutorial: http://www.saferseas.com/navseries/adclean.html Cleaner e-book: http://www.ebooktech.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=279 Compression Books: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm From mikael sevenier.com Tue Sep 3 16:34:20 2002 From: mikael sevenier.com (Mikael Bourges-Sevenier) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Books In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <011a01c2539a$0dd4bcf0$6602a8c0@bilbo> Dear Ben, All, > Another interesting but somewhat disingenuously titled > book is "MPEG-4 Jump-Start" by Aaron E. Walsh and Mikael > Bourges-Sevenier. It's really all about doing rich media in > MPEG-4. It looks like it would be very useful for anyone > doings BIFS, but doesn't have much applicable to the > audio/video/streaming side of things. > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0130600369/benwaggoner-20 > Actually, the book has been split in 2 volumes by the publisher. The first volume concentrates on authoring synthetic contents from an interactive multimedia point of view. The second volume, More MPEG-4 Jumpstart, will be published early next year and contains audio/video, streaming, synchronization, mpeg-4 file format, ipmp, and so on. It is already on pre-order on Amazon and other bookstores. Thanks for your comments. Mikael Bourges-Sevenier From ben interframemedia.com Tue Sep 3 17:02:52 2002 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Books In-Reply-To: <011a01c2539a$0dd4bcf0$6602a8c0@bilbo> Message-ID: Mikael, Ah, that makes a lot of sense. I'll definitely be getting the second volume. (and here's a pre-order link to it): http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0130473952/benwaggoner-20/ Does the April 16th date seem likely? Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding My Book: http://www.benwaggoner.com/books.htm Cleaner Tutorial: http://www.saferseas.com/navseries/adclean.html Cleaner e-book: http://www.ebooktech.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=279 Compression Books: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm on 9/3/02 3:34 PM, Mikael Bourges-Sevenier at mikael@sevenier.com wrote: >> Another interesting but somewhat disingenuously titled >> book is "MPEG-4 Jump-Start" by Aaron E. Walsh and Mikael >> Bourges-Sevenier. It's really all about doing rich media in >> MPEG-4. It looks like it would be very useful for anyone >> doings BIFS, but doesn't have much applicable to the >> audio/video/streaming side of things. >> >> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0130600369/benwaggoner-20 >> > > Actually, the book has been split in 2 volumes by the publisher. The > first volume concentrates on authoring synthetic contents from an > interactive multimedia point of view. The second volume, More MPEG-4 > Jumpstart, will be published early next year and contains audio/video, > streaming, synchronization, mpeg-4 file format, ipmp, and so on. It is > already on pre-order on Amazon and other bookstores. From miroslav.dokic cirrus.com Tue Sep 3 19:21:40 2002 From: miroslav.dokic cirrus.com (Dokic, Miroslav) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Is standard conform to put mp3 sound in aMPE G-4 stream ? Message-ID: <973C11FE0E3ED41183B200508BC7774C03A7373C@csexchange.crystal.cirrus.com> Olivier and others, The frame() bitstream element is a fully decodable element and the decoder does not need any information out-of-band. In some cases it will make a decoder job easier if there was some out-of-band info available (like knowing sampling frequency ahead of time and set up and lock PLL before the actual data arrive). In any case Layers I, II and III in both 11172-3 and 13818-3 could be discriminated based on the in-band data (including 1/2 fs as well as multichannel option). Regards, Miroslav > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Miroslav Dokic, Ph.D. > Director, Advanced Technology Development > Cirrus Logic, Inc. > 4210 S. Industrial Dr., Austin, TX, 78744, USA > tel. 1 (512) 912-3053 > fax. 1 (512) 445-0857 > www.crystal.com > www.cirrus.com > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN [mailto:olivier.avaro@rd.francetelecom.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2023 3:46 PM To: DaveMackie Cc: Dave Singer; Remigijus; technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Is standard conform to put mp3 sound in aMPEG-4 stream ? Seems that this solves the issue : - streamtype shall be 0x05 (this is an AudiioStream) - objecttype shall be 0x6B (this is Audio ISO/IEC 11172-3 MPEG-1 Audio) - decoderspecficinfo : empty - access units in this case are the frame() bitstream element as is defined in ISO/IEC 11172-3. Just if someone knowledgeable on ISO/IEC 11172-3 can confirm that the signaling of possible P&L are done in-band ... Anybody ? Kind regards, Olivier _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From mikael sevenier.com Tue Sep 3 17:21:44 2002 From: mikael sevenier.com (Mikael Bourges-Sevenier) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Books In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <011b01c253a0$ac9df120$6602a8c0@bilbo> > > Mikael, > > Ah, that makes a lot of sense. I'll definitely be > getting the second volume. > > (and here's a pre-order link to it): > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0130473952/benwaggoner-20/ > Does the April 16th date seem likely? Yes, I have the same date too. Kind regards, Mike From emre.aksu nokia.com Wed Sep 4 11:41:09 2002 From: emre.aksu nokia.com (emre.aksu@nokia.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] iods & 3GPP Message-ID: Hi Giuliano, According to section 9.2.4 in TS.26.234 Rel.4 document: ......... 9.2.4 MPEG-4 systems specific elements "Tracks relative to MPEG-4 system architectural elements (e.g. BIFS scene description tracks or OD Object descriptors) are optional and shall be ignored. The adoption of the MPEG-4 file format does not imply the usage of MPEG-4 systems architecture. The receiving terminal is not required to implement any of the specific MPEG-4 system architectural elements." ......... Hence, iods atom is not mandated in a 3GP file, and it shall be ignored in a file that addresses 3GP file compliance according to TS.26.234 Rel.4 and beyond. I also think that iods is not a part of ISO File format, but the MPEG-4 Specific file format which is inherited from ISO file format. 3GP file format is inherited from the ISO file format, which definitely makes the distinction between MPEG-4 systems related elements, and the core file format template (i.e. ISO). Best Regards, Emre Emre Baris Aksu Nokia Corp. -----Original Message----- From: ext Catrambone Giuliano [mailto:Giuliano.Catrambone@h3g.it] Sent: 03. September 2002 17:46 To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] iods & 3GPP Hi, I know that the iods atom is mandatory in ISO spec. Do you know if the iods atom is mandatory in the 3GPP? giuliano From nico.oorts xmt.be Wed Sep 4 11:27:05 2002 From: nico.oorts xmt.be (nico.oorts) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] multiple audio tracks into an mp4 file References: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC1010101E3CA@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> <3D75C002.D2644FA4@enst.fr> Message-ID: <3D75C3D9.7030507@xmt.be> I found what the problem was. It is not yet what I want it to be, but for research it was sufficient. What I did first was different updates of OD's at the time that I updated the scene. Now I update all the OD's from the different tracks at time 0. The problem I have for the moment is that all tracks internally start playing from time 0 and when I do an update of the scene at time 15000, the second track is already playing for 15s. This is probably because I update all the OD's at time 0.(??) Now I am looking for a way to convert a textual description (something like bifstext) into a BIFS and OD track, not immediatly an mp4 file. (probably I need to use BIFSenc from the standard reference software?) I'm using Realplayer One with the envivio plugin, also winamp with an mp4 plugin (only audio) and Quicktime 6. Best regards, Nico Oorts Cyril Concolato wrote: >Hi Nico, Olivier, > > > >>Maybe you can make those streams available and someone can check what is >>wrong ... >> >> >This could be great, I'm pretty sure I could tell you if you're file is >correct or not. > > > >>>Hi all, >>> >>>With the mp4tool (JC Dufourd), I try to make a .mp4 file >>>which contains >>>multiple audiotracks. I make a scene with an audiosource. This >>>audiosource has an url to the OD which contains the >>>elementary stream. >>>After some time I replace the audiosource by another which >>>has also an >>>url to an OD and ES. The result is an .mp4 which contains the >>>tracks (I >>>can check this with some tools and size), but play only the >>>first track. >>>Some ideas why this does not work? >>> >>> >Which player are you using? > >Regards, > >Cyril > > > From Cyril.Concolato enst.fr Wed Sep 4 11:50:23 2002 From: Cyril.Concolato enst.fr (Cyril Concolato) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] multiple audio tracks into an mp4 file References: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC1010101E3CA@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> <3D75C002.D2644FA4@enst.fr> <3D75C3D9.7030507@xmt.be> Message-ID: <3D75C94F.C957274A@enst.fr> Hi, > I found what the problem was. It is not yet what I want it to be, but > for research it was sufficient. What I did first was different updates > of OD's at the time that I updated the scene. Now I update all the OD's > from the different tracks at time 0. The problem I have for the moment > is that all tracks internally start playing from time 0 and when I do an > update of the scene at time 15000, the second track is already playing > for 15s. This is probably because I update all the OD's at time 0.(??) This is definitely a bug, it is not because you update an OD at some point in time that the associated medias should start at this same point in time. The starting and stopping of medias is controled by the scene. > Now I am looking for a way to convert a textual description (something > like bifstext) into a BIFS and OD track, not immediatly an mp4 file. > (probably I need to use BIFSenc from the standard reference software?) Yes you can do that or use mp4tool to create an mp4 file and then use the -export option of mp4tool to extract the tracks you want to have. The advantage of the second method is that you will get a file containing the media (bifs or od) plus a file containing the DecoderConfigDescriptor and a file containing some hints about the media AUs like DTS, CTS, size of the AU, RAP ... > I'm using Realplayer One with the envivio plugin, also winamp with an > mp4 plugin (only audio) and Quicktime 6. I now that the Envivio plugin has some bugs regarding OD updates so that might explain the bug you had with the first scene. Cyril -- Ecole Nationale Sup?rieure des T?l?communications, Paris Dept. Comelec 46, rue Barrault 75013 Paris Tel: +33145817991 Fax: +33145804036 From nico.oorts xmt.be Wed Sep 4 12:01:23 2002 From: nico.oorts xmt.be (nico.oorts) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] multiple audio tracks into an mp4 file References: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC1010101E3CA@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> <3D75C002.D2644FA4@enst.fr> <3D75C3D9.7030507@xmt.be> <3D75C94F.C957274A@enst.fr> Message-ID: <3D75CBE3.3000206@xmt.be> Hi >>I found what the problem was. It is not yet what I want it to be, but >>for research it was sufficient. What I did first was different updates >>of OD's at the time that I updated the scene. Now I update all the OD's >>from the different tracks at time 0. The problem I have for the moment >>is that all tracks internally start playing from time 0 and when I do an >>update of the scene at time 15000, the second track is already playing >>for 15s. This is probably because I update all the OD's at time 0.(??) >> >> >This is definitely a bug, it is not because you update an OD at some >point in time that the associated medias should start at this same point >in time. The starting and stopping of medias is controled by the scene. > > > >>Now I am looking for a way to convert a textual description (something >>like bifstext) into a BIFS and OD track, not immediatly an mp4 file. >>(probably I need to use BIFSenc from the standard reference software?) >> >> >Yes you can do that or use mp4tool to create an mp4 file and then use >the -export option of mp4tool to extract the tracks you want to have. >The advantage of the second method is that you will get a file >containing the media (bifs or od) plus a file containing the >DecoderConfigDescriptor and a file containing some hints about the media >AUs like DTS, CTS, size of the AU, RAP ... > Ik would like to do it with the mp4tool, the only problem is that mp4tool is proprietary and I want to build an application (in Eiffel or Java) which has as input some textual description of different tracks and time stamps and as output a mp4 file with the different tracks in it and starting from those time stamps. So I have to figure out if I'm going to use mp4tool or not. >>I'm using Realplayer One with the envivio plugin, also winamp with an >>mp4 plugin (only audio) and Quicktime 6. >> >> >I now that the Envivio plugin has some bugs regarding OD updates so that >might explain the bug you had with the first scene. > > Nico From uday.k ap.sony.com Wed Sep 4 15:47:15 2002 From: uday.k ap.sony.com (Uday Kiran) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 5.1 channel testing Message-ID: <008f01c253f3$dcabcc40$5566582b@uday> Hi, Can anybody tell me how to test 5.1 channel output?. Is there any article or paper describing how to test 5.1 channel output. Thank you. Best Regards, Uday Sony India Software Centre Software Architecture Division No.1, "Adarsh Opus", 2nd Floor Campbell Road, Austion Town, Bangalore - 560 047 Phone: +91-80-5546825 / 6 /7 ext 246 Fax: +91-80-5546828 email: uday.k@ap.sony.com "This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Sony cannot accept liability for statements made which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of Sony" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020904/f033a873/attachment.html From Jean-Claude.Dufourd enst.fr Wed Sep 4 12:14:19 2002 From: Jean-Claude.Dufourd enst.fr (Jean-Claude Dufourd) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MP4 hint track References: <007401c249be$fd174610$0314010a@tataelxsi.co.in> Message-ID: <3D75CEEB.6080501@enst.fr> RUTURAJ CHANDPUR wrote: > Can I create MP4 file containing only hint tracks(rtp hint), OD and > BIFS track? The question is not precise enough. You can do it, of course. The result will not be compliant though, if I understood your intention. It says in the spec that if you place the hint track in the MP4 file without the original non-hinted media track, then it is not compliant. In this sentence, compliance means to the MP4 file format specification. > How can I test this MP4 file? You have to find a player which supports MP4 file format, your profile of OD and BIFS, of video, of audio... We cannot answer that question in abstract. Best regards JC -- Jean-Claude Dufourd @======================================@ ENST, Dept COMELEC The wing, over the big rock... 46, rue Barrault @======================================@ 75013 Paris Tel: +33145817807 Fax: +33145804036 From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Wed Sep 4 12:42:23 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] iods & 3GPP Message-ID: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC1010101E446@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> > Hence, iods atom is not mandated in a 3GP file, and it shall > be ignored in a file that addresses 3GP file compliance > according to TS.26.234 Rel.4 and beyond. > I also think that iods is not a part of ISO File format, but > the MPEG-4 Specific file format which is inherited from ISO > file format. 3GP file format is inherited from the ISO file > format, which definitely makes the distinction between MPEG-4 > systems related elements, and the core file format template > (i.e. ISO). I think there are some confusions there between an MPEG sub-group (MPEG-4 Systems) and a specification (the ISO media File format). File formats (the ISO File Format, MP4 File Format, AVC, ...) have been developped by MPEG-4 Systems (later jointly with JPEG for the ISO file format) so they *are* MPEG-4 Systems. What you mean I think is that 3GPP decided not use the OD framework (another specification developped by MPEG-4 Systems). All I am saying, is that people who care about having there content used also on the internet (some company does ...) should better do dual compatible files. What I am also saying is that this extra burden is not ground on any technical reasons. There is NO technical reason to derive yet another format from the ISO File format in the 3GPP case (while in some cases there are, e.g. we are currently making such assessment for AVC coding that has some specifics). I am saying this in the interest of interoperability and on the minimization of the entropy in the multimedia standards. This is also in the interest of future proofness. Kind regards, Olivier From David.Matthewson usa.net Wed Sep 4 12:02:40 2002 From: David.Matthewson usa.net (David.Matthewson) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Envivio WMP MP-4 plugin Message-ID: Good to see that Envivio have (at last!)[http://www.envivio.com] released this and we can confirm that it works quite well -(OK, it works better than any other player we've had to date!) with Darwin & QSS using RTSP. But but but, we have tried it on various dev. machines with W2K and find it only works with media player 6.4 (the old style GUI) and not the (nasty!) 7.x version. Can anyone else confirm this behaviour as I see this plugin as being key in getting MP4 to the 'masses' as it were? TiA David Dr David K Matthewson ------------------------------------------- Tel. +44 (0) 1580-201011 Fax. +44 (0) 8700-527922 Mob: +44 (0) 7836 310523 http://www.lymden-lodge.com The information in this email is private and confidential and may be legally privileged.? It is meant only for the addressee. ------------------------------------------- From emre.aksu nokia.com Wed Sep 4 15:56:19 2002 From: emre.aksu nokia.com (emre.aksu@nokia.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] iods & 3GPP Message-ID: Hi Olivier, > I think there are some confusions there between an MPEG > sub-group (MPEG-4 Systems) and a specification (the ISO media > File format). File formats (the ISO File Format, MP4 File > Format, AVC, ...) have been developped by MPEG-4 Systems > (later jointly with JPEG for the ISO file format) so they > *are* MPEG-4 Systems. What you mean I think is that 3GPP > decided not use the OD framework (another specification > developped by MPEG-4 Systems). > What I mean is what is exactly stated in the 3GPP TS 26.234 spec. => "The receiving terminal is not required to implement any of the specific MPEG-4 system architectural elements". Hence, what is not defined in ISO Media file format is out of the scope of the 3GP file. Of course, this does not restrict you from putting those elements in the file. It simply means that the receiving terminal can ignore them and still be able to playback the presentation. Only then that file is called a "3GPP compliant" file. > All I am saying, is that people who care about having there > content used also on the internet (some company does ...) > should better do dual compatible files. What I am also saying > is that this extra burden is not ground on any technical > reasons. There is NO technical reason to derive yet another > format from the ISO File format in the 3GPP case (while in > some cases there are, e.g. we are currently making such > assessment for AVC coding that has some specifics). I am > saying this in the interest of interoperability and on the > minimization of the entropy in the multimedia standards. This > is also in the interest of future proofness. I think the necessary reasoning for the usage of the ISO media file as the base format and introducing a new file format has been done quite well in the 3GPP SA4 Group discussions, which I am sure that you are very well aware of. Best Regards, Emre Emre Baris Aksu Nokia Corp. > -----Original Message----- > From: ext AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN > [mailto:olivier.avaro@rd.francetelecom.com] > Sent: 04. September 2002 12:42 > To: Aksu Emre (NMP/Tampere); technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] iods & 3GPP > > > > > Hence, iods atom is not mandated in a 3GP file, and it shall > > be ignored in a file that addresses 3GP file compliance > > according to TS.26.234 Rel.4 and beyond. > > > I also think that iods is not a part of ISO File format, but > > the MPEG-4 Specific file format which is inherited from ISO > > file format. 3GP file format is inherited from the ISO file > > format, which definitely makes the distinction between MPEG-4 > > systems related elements, and the core file format template > > (i.e. ISO). > > I think there are some confusions there between an MPEG > sub-group (MPEG-4 Systems) and a specification (the ISO media > File format). File formats (the ISO File Format, MP4 File > Format, AVC, ...) have been developped by MPEG-4 Systems > (later jointly with JPEG for the ISO file format) so they > *are* MPEG-4 Systems. What you mean I think is that 3GPP > decided not use the OD framework (another specification > developped by MPEG-4 Systems). > > All I am saying, is that people who care about having there > content used also on the internet (some company does ...) > should better do dual compatible files. What I am also saying > is that this extra burden is not ground on any technical > reasons. There is NO technical reason to derive yet another > format from the ISO File format in the 3GPP case (while in > some cases there are, e.g. we are currently making such > assessment for AVC coding that has some specifics). I am > saying this in the interest of interoperability and on the > minimization of the entropy in the multimedia standards. This > is also in the interest of future proofness. > > Kind regards, > > Olivier > From atritschler envivio.fr Wed Sep 4 15:25:05 2002 From: atritschler envivio.fr (Alain Tritschler) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Envivio WMP MP-4 plugin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello David, Glad to hear you were happy with this new plug-in ! We tested our plug-in with WMP 7.1 as well, and didn't notice particular problems with this version. Could you send me a more precise description of your problem (with the exact version of WMP as well ...), and we can try to reproduce it in our labs. Cheers, Alain ---- Alain Tritschler EnvivioTV Project Leader Envivio, Inc. 15, rue de l'erboni?re F-35510 Cesson-S?vign? -----Message d'origine----- De : technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]De la part de David.Matthewson Envoy? : mercredi 4 septembre 2002 12:03 ? : technotes@lists.m4if.org Objet : [M4IF Technotes] Envivio WMP MP-4 plugin Good to see that Envivio have (at last!)[http://www.envivio.com] released this and we can confirm that it works quite well -(OK, it works better than any other player we've had to date!) with Darwin & QSS using RTSP. But but but, we have tried it on various dev. machines with W2K and find it only works with media player 6.4 (the old style GUI) and not the (nasty!) 7.x version. Can anyone else confirm this behaviour as I see this plugin as being key in getting MP4 to the 'masses' as it were? TiA David Dr David K Matthewson ------------------------------------------- Tel. +44 (0) 1580-201011 Fax. +44 (0) 8700-527922 Mob: +44 (0) 7836 310523 http://www.lymden-lodge.com The information in this email is private and confidential and may be legally privileged.? It is meant only for the addressee. ------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Wed Sep 4 15:32:56 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] iods & 3GPP Message-ID: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC1010101E469@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> Hi Emre, > What I mean is what is exactly stated in the 3GPP TS 26.234 > spec. => "The receiving terminal is not required to implement > any of the specific MPEG-4 system architectural elements". I am afraid this sentence is broken since the ISO File Format is an integral part of the MPEG-4 Systems Architecture. It should indeed states "The receiving terminal is not required to implement any of the specific MPEG-4 Systems OD Framework", or better, reference the appropriate sections if you want to define the spec. by what you shall not do instead of what you shall do (which is strange by the way). > Hence, what is not defined in ISO Media file format is out of > the scope of the 3GP file. Right. This does not prevent the ISO Media file format to be part of the MPEG-4 Systems architecture ... > Of course, this does not restrict you from putting those > elements in the file. It simply means that the receiving > terminal can ignore them and still be able to playback the > presentation. Only then that file is called a "3GPP compliant" file. Exactly. I would say more : if you care about interoperability, you SHOULD also always make it and compliant with the MPEG-4 File Format. There is no extra burden in doing so expect the duplication created by the divergence of the formats. > I think the necessary reasoning for the usage of the ISO > media file as the base format and introducing a new file > format has been done quite well in the 3GPP SA4 Group > discussions, which I am sure that you are very well aware of. No, I am not aware of the technical reasons. Maybe you can summarize them for us. Kind regards, Olivier From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Wed Sep 4 15:56:29 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Is standard conform to put mp3 sound in aMPEG-4 stream ? Message-ID: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC1010101E474@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> Hi Miroslav, > The frame() bitstream element is a fully decodable element and > the decoder > does not need any information out-of-band. > In some cases it will make a decoder job easier if there was some > out-of-band info available > (like knowing sampling frequency ahead of time and set up and > lock PLL before the actual > data arrive). > > In any case Layers I, II and III in both 11172-3 and 13818-3 > could be discriminated > based on the in-band data (including 1/2 fs as well as > multichannel option). OK. So, I guess the conclusion is that the use of MP3 in the MPEG-4 environment can be made to work in a quite simple way as described in this thread and that a clarification in the standard would help to cast this in stone, ex. as a normative annex to MPEG-1 (I am sure Leonardo will be exited about the idea :-). Any taker ? Kind regards, Olivier From yangwj lucent.com Wed Sep 4 14:44:07 2002 From: yangwj lucent.com (Yang, Wei Jian (Mac)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] any project Message-ID: <6999EF22C12CD4119A6800508B65021F0244E170@CI0027EXCH001U> hello: Is there any on going project that I can help to develop? Thanks Yang, Wei Jian (Mac) Bell labs, Shanghai Lucent Technologies (China) Co., Ltd. Tel: 8621-5450-4555 ext. 8610 Fax: 8621-5490-2106 E-mail: yangwj@lucent.com From singer apple.com Wed Sep 4 12:27:17 2002 From: singer apple.com (Dave Singer) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MP4 hint track In-Reply-To: <3D75CEEB.6080501@enst.fr> References: <007401c249be$fd174610$0314010a@tataelxsi.co.in> <3D75CEEB.6080501@enst.fr> Message-ID: At 11:14 +0200 9/4/02, Jean-Claude Dufourd wrote: >RUTURAJ CHANDPUR wrote: >>Can I create MP4 file containing only hint tracks(rtp hint), OD and >>BIFS track? > >The question is not precise enough. >You can do it, of course. The result will not be compliant though, >if I understood your intention. It says in the spec that if you >place the hint track in the MP4 file without the original non-hinted >media track, then it is not compliant. In this sentence, compliance >means to the MP4 file format specification. The intent of this statement was so that files could always be played locally, re-edited, and so on. It is possible to 'weasel around it', however; you can save most of the space of the original media tracks by putting their access units in another file, referred to be a data reference URL. > >>How can I test this MP4 file? > >You have to find a player which supports MP4 file format, your >profile of OD and BIFS, of video, of audio... We cannot answer that >question in abstract. JC is right. However, there are a number of servers which will stream a hint-track only file, I think. What they stream it to, is up to you... -- David Singer Apple Computer/QuickTime From singer apple.com Wed Sep 4 12:30:35 2002 From: singer apple.com (Dave Singer) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] iods & 3GPP In-Reply-To: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC1010101E446@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> References: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC1010101E446@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> Message-ID: At 11:42 +0200 9/4/02, AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN wrote: > > Hence, iods atom is not mandated in a 3GP file, and it shall >> be ignored in a file that addresses 3GP file compliance >> according to TS.26.234 Rel.4 and beyond. > >> I also think that iods is not a part of ISO File format, but >> the MPEG-4 Specific file format which is inherited from ISO >> file format. 3GP file format is inherited from the ISO file >> format, which definitely makes the distinction between MPEG-4 >> systems related elements, and the core file format template >> (i.e. ISO). > >I think there are some confusions there between an MPEG sub-group >(MPEG-4 Systems) and a specification (the ISO media File format). >File formats (the ISO File Format, MP4 File Format, AVC, ...) have >been developped by MPEG-4 Systems (later jointly with JPEG for the >ISO file format) so they *are* MPEG-4 Systems. What you mean I think >is that 3GPP decided not use the OD framework (another specification >developped by MPEG-4 Systems). > >All I am saying, is that people who care about having there content >used also on the internet (some company does ...) should better do >dual compatible files. What I am also saying is that this extra >burden is not ground on any technical reasons. There is NO technical >reason to derive yet another format from the ISO File format in the >3GPP case (while in some cases there are, e.g. we are currently >making such assessment for AVC coding that has some specifics). I am >saying this in the interest of interoperability and on the >minimization of the entropy in the multimedia standards. This is >also in the interest of future proofness. Yes, as Olivier says, we have a lot of convergence here (which is good). You may be able to play into a bigger market, and/or 'future-proof' yourself by including a minimal OD/BIFS structure, as ISMA has done. This is the reason that the 3G spec says that they are unused and should be ignored, and it does not say that you can't include them; be as compatible as you wish with as many specs as you wish. The 'ftyp' atom (sorry, box) at the front of the file labels which specs a file complies with. Use it, and try to be as compatible as possible. It's good for everyone to maximize interop. -- David Singer Apple Computer/QuickTime From jhu cmguc.com Wed Sep 4 16:23:43 2002 From: jhu cmguc.com (Jingyi Hu) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Envivio WMP MP-4 plugin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002101c25448$9563cf40$9244ef0a@jingyixp> Hi Alain, I like your new player. It work with my Windows XP 8.0 Media player. But I find there still some bugs have not been fixing in the new version: 1) Do not play MP4 short header files? 2) Do not play PacketVideo Video only or AAC+Video MP4 file. (I have test other players, they can play fine). 3) Do not play 3GPP MP4 files. I would like see those bugs fixed. And other players can support those items. Thanks. Jingyi Hu -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of Alain Tritschler Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2023 8:25 AM To: David.Matthewson@usa.net; technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Envivio WMP MP-4 plugin Hello David, Glad to hear you were happy with this new plug-in ! We tested our plug-in with WMP 7.1 as well, and didn't notice particular problems with this version. Could you send me a more precise description of your problem (with the exact version of WMP as well ...), and we can try to reproduce it in our labs. Cheers, Alain ---- Alain Tritschler EnvivioTV Project Leader Envivio, Inc. 15, rue de l'erboni?re F-35510 Cesson-S?vign? -----Message d'origine----- De : technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]De la part de David.Matthewson Envoy? : mercredi 4 septembre 2002 12:03 ? : technotes@lists.m4if.org Objet : [M4IF Technotes] Envivio WMP MP-4 plugin Good to see that Envivio have (at last!)[http://www.envivio.com] released this and we can confirm that it works quite well -(OK, it works better than any other player we've had to date!) with Darwin & QSS using RTSP. But but but, we have tried it on various dev. machines with W2K and find it only works with media player 6.4 (the old style GUI) and not the (nasty!) 7.x version. Can anyone else confirm this behaviour as I see this plugin as being key in getting MP4 to the 'masses' as it were? TiA David Dr David K Matthewson ------------------------------------------- Tel. +44 (0) 1580-201011 Fax. +44 (0) 8700-527922 Mob: +44 (0) 7836 310523 http://www.lymden-lodge.com The information in this email is private and confidential and may be legally privileged.? It is meant only for the addressee. ------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From David.Matthewson usa.net Wed Sep 4 22:00:29 2002 From: David.Matthewson usa.net (David.Matthewson) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Envivio WMP MP-4 plugin (David.Matthewson) & AAC MP4 Message-ID: Thanks to Jerome at Envivio we now confirm this does work with Darwin and WMP 7.x, if you use e-rtsp://server:port/movie.mp4 rather than the more usual rtsp://server:port/movie.mp4. With e-rtsp you will use Envivio RTSP software layer and not Microsoft RTSP layer, which it seems they have changed between 6.4 & 7.1. BTW, our tests show it works fine with AAC + Video MP4 files...... brgds David Dr David K Matthewson ------------------------------------------- Tel. +44 (0) 1580-201011 Fax. +44 (0) 8700-527922 Mob: +44 (0) 7836 310523 http://www.lymden-lodge.com The information in this email is private and confidential and may be legally privileged.? It is meant only for the addressee. ------------------------------------------- From boris envivio.com Wed Sep 4 18:22:03 2002 From: boris envivio.com (Boris Felts) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Envivio WMP MP-4 plugin In-Reply-To: <002101c25448$9563cf40$9244ef0a@jingyixp> References: <002101c25448$9563cf40$9244ef0a@jingyixp> Message-ID: <1031185323.3d76a3abe8186@email.envivio.com> Hi Jingyi, > I like your new player. It work with my Windows XP 8.0 Media player. But > I find there still some bugs have not been fixing in the new version: Thanks for your remarks. You might want to put them on our forum (on www.envivio.com) if it concerns only Envivio. M4IF has a group dedicated to interoperability. Envivio and many other companies participate in this effort, and I can only encourage you to participate in this if you want to test your files against other players. > 1) Do not play MP4 short header files? It should play them. Short header files from other companies are correctly decoded. > 2) Do not play PacketVideo Video only or AAC+Video MP4 file. (I have > test other players, they can play fine). We tested the files Packetvideo uploaded to the M4IF interop site few months ago and they worked correctly. We will check that again. Our player is usually stricter on the file syntax than other players. > 3) Do not play 3GPP MP4 files. This is wrong in general -we can play 3GPP files locally-, but may be true for some files. We support only files with AAC and MPEG-4 simple profile video (or short header). > I would like see those bugs fixed. And other players can support those > items. We do our best, but we usually give higher propriorities to the potential bugs discovered during organized interoperability tests and plug-fests. Feel free to post your remarks, bugs etc. on our forum. Regards, Boris > Thanks. > > Jingyi Hu > > > -----Original Message----- > From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of Alain Tritschler > Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2023 8:25 AM > To: David.Matthewson@usa.net; technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Envivio WMP MP-4 plugin > > Hello David, > Glad to hear you were happy with this new plug-in ! > We tested our plug-in with WMP 7.1 as well, and didn't notice particular > problems with this version. > Could you send me a more precise description of your problem (with the > exact > version of WMP as well ...), and we can try to reproduce it in our labs. > Cheers, > > Alain > > > ---- > Alain Tritschler > EnvivioTV Project Leader > Envivio, Inc. > 15, rue de l'erboni?re > F-35510 Cesson-S?vign? > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]De la part de David.Matthewson > Envoy? : mercredi 4 septembre 2002 12:03 > ? : technotes@lists.m4if.org > Objet : [M4IF Technotes] Envivio WMP MP-4 plugin > > > Good to see that Envivio have (at last!)[http://www.envivio.com] > released > this and we can confirm that it works quite well -(OK, it works better > than > any other player we've had to date!) with Darwin & QSS using RTSP. > > But but but, we have tried it on various dev. machines with W2K and find > it > only works with media player 6.4 (the old style GUI) and not the > (nasty!) > 7.x version. > > Can anyone else confirm this behaviour as I see this plugin as being key > in > getting MP4 to the 'masses' as it were? > > TiA > > David > > > > Dr David K Matthewson > ------------------------------------------- > Tel. +44 (0) 1580-201011 > Fax. +44 (0) 8700-527922 > Mob: +44 (0) 7836 310523 > http://www.lymden-lodge.com > > The information in this email is private and confidential and may be > legally privileged.? It is meant only for the addressee. > ------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > Boris Felts Envivio. boris@envivio.com (1) 650 875 3010 From ghughes tardis.com Wed Sep 4 23:16:53 2002 From: ghughes tardis.com (Gary Hughes) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020904221414.02e27560@mail.tardis.com> At 03:13 PM 9/3/2024 -0700, Ben Waggoner wrote: > There is also the compelling sounding, but as yet unread "MPEG-4 >Demystified" by Peter Symes. Amazon only has it as some kind of special >order, and mine hasn't shown up yet. This is surprising, since his previous >books haven't had any unusual distribution. Anyway, I haven't read this >book yet, but Symes's excellent "Video Compression Demystified" was a >clearly written and well illustrated introduction to modern video and audio >codecs. If his MPEG-4 book is half as good, it'll be great. > >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0071388893/benwaggoner-20 Most places have that listed as "on order" or "3-5 weeks". B&N say "not yet available". Most places list it for significantly less than Amazon, but as the joke goes, "I only charge $6/lb when I'm out of stock". gary Gary Hughes (ghughes@tardis.com) Stargate Video Systems From rkoenen intertrust.com Wed Sep 4 23:01:30 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Envivio WMP MP-4 plugin Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59011B3A58@exchange.epr.com> > Thanks for your remarks. You might want to put them on our forum (on > www.envivio.com) if it concerns only Envivio. > M4IF has a group dedicated to interoperability. Envivio and > many other > companies participate in this effort, and I can only encourage you to > participate in this if you want to test your files against > other players. Please allow me to point out that interop testing is an activity for our membership. Of course we always welcome new members - M4IF's membership fee is low (3 K$ / year, and only 300 USD for not-for-profits) and by becoming a member you express clear support for open standards. See http://www.m4if.org/m4if/ Since licensing has been announced, we have seen a renewed surge in members signing up - see M4IF's home page for the recent additions. Best, Rob From i.g.richardson rgu.ac.uk Thu Sep 5 09:47:24 2002 From: i.g.richardson rgu.ac.uk (Iain Richardson (ensigr)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: MPEG-4 Books Message-ID: <9B4C0CE0F5BE4E4F83226707BFA0D1B4E54748@EXVS001.rgu.ac.uk> Sorry for the delay in posting, I didn't read my messages yesterday... I agree with Ben that "The MPEG-4 Book" is a useful resource; I have one or two minor criticisms, though. You really need to know the basics of video compression and the preceding MPEG standards to follow the sections on MPEG-4 Visual; if you are reasonably new to the subject then this book probably isn't enough on its own to get up to speed. I was disappointed that there is virtually no discussion of recent developments such as the forthcoming Part 10; given the publication date of the book I would have thought that a "preview" of Part 10 (AVC or H.264) could have been included. Finally, there is quite a variation in style between the chapters and some rather poorly reproduced figures - disappointing for what is (to an academic !) not a cheap book. Perhaps it's inevitable in a multi-authored book. I also agree with the comments on MPEG-4 Jump Start - sounds like the publisher is to blame for any misinformation? The split between the two books isn't at all obvious from the publicity material for the first book. Finally, while we're all plugging our books :-) may I please mention "Video CODEC Design", published in May of this year, which covers MPEG-4 Visual and the emerging H.26L and is aimed at engineers/designers: http://www.wiley.com/cda/product/0,,0471485535,00.html Cheers Iain Richardson www.vcodex.com www.rgu.ac.uk/eng/ict/ --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2023 15:13:31 -0700 From: Ben Waggoner To: Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Books (Rob Koenen asked me to copy this over from the Streaming Media MPEG-4 list) Folks, There are a number of books about and discussing MPEG-4 out now. I got the "The MPEG-4 Book" edited by Fernando Pereira and Touradj Ebrahimi last week. It is quite good, and definitely the first truly useful reference on MPEG-4. Finally, an actual document which covers all the tools, profiles, and levels used in the myriad facets of the MPEG-4 standard! Compared to the standard itself, it's much more readable and much, much cheaper. The book also has an interesting overview of the MPEG-4 standards process, and information on verification. Overall, it's a must have for anyone involved in the creation of MPEG-4 products, and technically inclined content folks looking to implement MPEG-4 solutions. It's not the kind of book that gets read cover to cover, but I've found myself pulling it down from the bookshelf a couple times a day since I've got it, answering a question in 30 seconds that would have taken 30 minutes on the web. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0130616214/benwaggoner-20 This is the first MPEG-4 book I've found worthy to add to my favorite compression books section of my website: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm Another interesting but somewhat disingenuously titled book is "MPEG-4 Jump-Start" by Aaron E. Walsh and Mikael Bourges-Sevenier. It's really all about doing rich media in MPEG-4. It looks like it would be very useful for anyone doings BIFS, but doesn't have much applicable to the audio/video/streaming side of things. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0130600369/benwaggoner-20 There is also the compelling sounding, but as yet unread "MPEG-4 Demystified" by Peter Symes. Amazon only has it as some kind of special order, and mine hasn't shown up yet. This is surprising, since his previous books haven't had any unusual distribution. Anyway, I haven't read this book yet, but Symes's excellent "Video Compression Demystified" was a clearly written and well illustrated introduction to modern video and audio codecs. If his MPEG-4 book is half as good, it'll be great. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0071388893/benwaggoner-20 And I just discovered that Amazon.com is now shipping MY book about video compression (a couple of weeks early)! The book is for hands-on compressionists, and covers compression theory, preprocessing, workflow, and many formats. MPEG-4 has its own pretty long chapter (which Rob Koenen helped me out with). http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/157820111X/benwaggoner-20 Should definitely be useful for those looking to make MPEG-4 audio and Video files. Those making MPEG-4 compression tools would probably find the sections on preprocessing and compression tools, and the tutorials, very useful in understanding what mainstream commercial encoding tools look like and do. There are a number of other forthcoming MPEG-4 books that look very interesting, like one from the voluble John Watkinson, and a followup to "Jump-Start." From fp lx.it.pt Thu Sep 5 17:26:42 2002 From: fp lx.it.pt (Fernando Pereira) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: MPEG-4 Books References: <9B4C0CE0F5BE4E4F83226707BFA0D1B4E54748@EXVS001.rgu.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3D7777B2.AAF84692@lx.it.pt> Dear Iain "Iain Richardson (ensigr)" wrote: > > Sorry for the delay in posting, I didn't read my messages yesterday... > > I agree with Ben that "The MPEG-4 Book" is a useful resource; I have one or two minor criticisms, though. You really need to know the basics of video compression and the preceding MPEG standards to follow the sections on MPEG-4 Visual; if you are reasonably new to the subject then this book probably isn't enough on its own to get up to speed. Although the book has 16 chapters and 5 appendixes, the video chapter is more than 1/8th of the book. In a book considering the complete MPEG-4 standard there is no space to start on the basics of video compression or audio compression of whatsoever. This is clear and clearly acknowledged in the book. The purpose of the MPEG-4 book is not the basics of video compression. > I was disappointed that there is virtually no discussion of recent developments such as the forthcoming Part 10; given the publication date of the book I would have thought that a "preview" of Part 10 (AVC or H.264) could have been included. Those that know about the stability of MPEG-4 Part 10 TODAY can easily understand why was not possible to write about it some months ago ;-) >Finally, there is quite a variation in style between the chapters and some rather poorly reproduced figures - disappointing for what is (to an academic !) not a cheap book. Perhaps it's inevitable in a multi-authored book. Here I can only say that although the book is multi-authored, I am proud about its coherence (which took me many weeks of work). The small inevitable variations are a price to pay for a book including topics that although building a standard are very varied. I am looking forward for a comparison with other books about the COMPLETE MPEG-4 standard. My sincere thanks for your opinions. Best regards Fernando Pereira -- Fernando Manuel Bernardo Pereira, Ph.D., Professor Instituto Superior T?cnico - Instituto de Telecomunica??es Av. Rovisco Pais, 1049-001 Lisboa, PORTUGAL Phone: + 351 21 8418460 Fax: + 351 21 8418472 E-mail: Fernando.Pereira@lx.it.pt WWW: http://www.img.lx.it.pt/~fp/ From invalidname mac.com Thu Sep 5 13:35:06 2002 From: invalidname mac.com (Chris Adamson) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Books In-Reply-To: <200209051604.g85G4ECb023791@mx3.magma.ca> Message-ID: <6F68EFDB-C0ED-11D6-B1A4-000A27AC9750@mac.com> On Wed, 04 Sep 2023 22:16:53 -0400, Gary Hughes wrote: > At 03:13 PM 9/3/2024 -0700, Ben Waggoner wrote: >> There is also the compelling sounding, but as yet unread "MPEG-4 >> Demystified" by Peter Symes. [...] > Most places have that listed as "on order" or "3-5 weeks". B&N say > "not yet available". Most places list it for significantly less > than Amazon, but as the joke goes, "I only charge $6/lb when I'm > out of stock". I ordered "MPEG-4 Demystified" from Amazon in June, when its release date was supposedly upon us. July came and I wrote to Amazon's customer service asking if the book had been released. They said the publication date had been pushed back to September. I note that Amazon still does not show a specific release date (it says "usually ships in 7 to 13 days"). So, it's coming. Soon, I guess. --Chris From srinivasa_rajuk yahoo.co.uk Thu Sep 5 12:37:24 2002 From: srinivasa_rajuk yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Srinivasa=20Raju?=) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) Message-ID: <20020905103724.3604.qmail@web12702.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, All Can anybody please provide information about the Procedure/guidelines or tools to test the MPEG4 Codecs. Thanks raju __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From i.g.richardson rgu.ac.uk Fri Sep 6 09:41:43 2002 From: i.g.richardson rgu.ac.uk (Iain Richardson (ensigr)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: MPEG-4 Books Message-ID: <9B4C0CE0F5BE4E4F83226707BFA0D1B4E5474B@EXVS001.rgu.ac.uk> Dear Fernando A fair reply to my rather one-sided comments .. I should have also mentioned the many things that I like about "The MPEG-4 Book" such as the "one-stop" coverage of all the MPEG-4 topics in one volume (a major achievement) and the fact that the chapter authors are all intimately acquainted with their subjects. Best regards Iain Richardson Message: 10 Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2023 16:26:42 +0100 From: Fernando Pereira To: "Iain Richardson (ensigr)" , technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] RE: MPEG-4 Books Dear Iain "Iain Richardson (ensigr)" wrote: > > Sorry for the delay in posting, I didn't read my messages yesterday... > > I agree with Ben that "The MPEG-4 Book" is a useful resource; I have one or two minor criticisms, though. You really need to know the basics of video compression and the preceding MPEG standards to follow the sections on MPEG-4 Visual; if you are reasonably new to the subject then this book probably isn't enough on its own to get up to speed. Although the book has 16 chapters and 5 appendixes, the video chapter is more than 1/8th of the book. In a book considering the complete MPEG-4 standard there is no space to start on the basics of video compression or audio compression of whatsoever. This is clear and clearly acknowledged in the book. The purpose of the MPEG-4 book is not the basics of video compression. > I was disappointed that there is virtually no discussion of recent developments such as the forthcoming Part 10; given the publication date of the book I would have thought that a "preview" of Part 10 (AVC or H.264) could have been included. Those that know about the stability of MPEG-4 Part 10 TODAY can easily understand why was not possible to write about it some months ago ;-) >Finally, there is quite a variation in style between the chapters and some rather poorly reproduced figures - disappointing for what is (to an academic !) not a cheap book. Perhaps it's inevitable in a multi-authored book. Here I can only say that although the book is multi-authored, I am proud about its coherence (which took me many weeks of work). The small inevitable variations are a price to pay for a book including topics that although building a standard are very varied. I am looking forward for a comparison with other books about the COMPLETE MPEG-4 standard. My sincere thanks for your opinions. Best regards Fernando Pereira From yangwj lucent.com Fri Sep 6 09:39:40 2002 From: yangwj lucent.com (Yang, Wei Jian (Mac)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] help on Momusys Message-ID: <6999EF22C12CD4119A6800508B65021F0244E189@CI0027EXCH001U> hello: I debug Momusy-FDIS-v1.0-990812, using akiyo.ctl/cfg to encode akiyo CIF YUV. I find out that even if I change the Target bit-rate for vol from 64000 to 9600, the reconstructed image quality is same. Can any one tell me reason? Thanks Mac Yang, Wei Jian (Mac) From Jani.Huoponen hantro.com Sat Sep 7 01:08:10 2002 From: Jani.Huoponen hantro.com (Jani Huoponen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] help on Momusys Message-ID: Hi Mac, > -----Original Message----- > From: Yang, Wei Jian (Mac) [mailto:yangwj@lucent.com] > Sent: 6. syyskuuta 2002 3:40 > To: 'technotes@lists.m4if.org' > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] help on Momusys > > > hello: > > I debug Momusy-FDIS-v1.0-990812, using akiyo.ctl/cfg to > encode akiyo CIF > YUV. I find out that even if I change the Target bit-rate for > vol from 64000 > to 9600, the reconstructed image quality is same. > > Can any one tell me reason? Without knowing all the coding parameters you are using (like frame rate) I would say that the sequence (CIF!) cannot be simply compressed to a such a low bit rate (9.6 kbits/s), i.e., the 64 kbps could be close to being the lowest bit rate that the encoder can achieve with the parameters you used. So, even if you put 9.6 kbps as a target rate, the encoder cannot go that low and thus the quality of the video is more or less the same as for 64 kbps. Check the file sizes of the compressed bit streams and calculate the true bit rate the encoder used. With normal coding conditions that's the lowest bit rate (and quality) you get with Momusys. BR, Jani From li webcasttech.com Sun Sep 8 21:57:45 2002 From: li webcasttech.com (Weiping Li) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question on MoMuSys FGS Reference Software References: Message-ID: <003301c257b7$863d6f40$0602a8c0@adminpc> Andrea, The current FGS in MPEG-4 is only defined to work with rectangular video sequences. The combination of FGS with arbitrarily shaped objects is not in MPEG-4. That's why the reference software does not work in this case. Best regards, Weiping ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2023 1:55 AM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question on MoMuSys FGS Reference Software > Hi all, > > I'm a student at the University of Rome3 and I'm working on MPEG-4. In > particular I'm interested in object based FGS. > I'm using MoMuSys FGS Reference Software and I can encode and decode > successfully rectangular sequences, but I have problems when I use > sequences and binary alpha planes. I manage to encode successfully a > video object but when I try to decode the bistreams I receive the > message: > > Initialize FGS data array... > > ERROR(ecalloc): Wrong size: <=0 > > Could someone help me? > > Thanks in advance, > > Andrea Ambrosioni > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From yangwj lucent.com Mon Sep 9 09:41:16 2002 From: yangwj lucent.com (Yang, Wei Jian (Mac)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] help on Momusys Message-ID: <6999EF22C12CD4119A6800508B65021F0244E18D@CI0027EXCH001U> hello, Jani: I have resolved this problem. The key is that you should change the Type of rate control from None to TM5 ( I have not tried other 2 options as VM4 and VM5+), and change alpha channel to Rectangular. After that, output coded video quality will change as target bitrate change. I have another question: Is the .bits file as coded output stream, or just description file? Thanks Mac Yang, Wei Jian (Mac) Bell labs, Shanghai Lucent Technologies (China) Co., Ltd. Tel: 8621-5450-4555 ext. 8610 Fax: 8621-5490-2106 E-mail: yangwj@lucent.com -----Original Message----- From: Jani Huoponen [mailto:Jani.Huoponen@hantro.com] Sent: 2002Äê9ÔÂ7ÈÕ 5:08 To: Yang, Wei Jian (Mac); 'technotes@lists.m4if.org' Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] help on Momusys Hi Mac, > -----Original Message----- > From: Yang, Wei Jian (Mac) [mailto:yangwj@lucent.com] > Sent: 6. syyskuuta 2002 3:40 > To: 'technotes@lists.m4if.org' > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] help on Momusys > > > hello: > > I debug Momusy-FDIS-v1.0-990812, using akiyo.ctl/cfg to > encode akiyo CIF > YUV. I find out that even if I change the Target bit-rate for > vol from 64000 > to 9600, the reconstructed image quality is same. > > Can any one tell me reason? Without knowing all the coding parameters you are using (like frame rate) I would say that the sequence (CIF!) cannot be simply compressed to a such a low bit rate (9.6 kbits/s), i.e., the 64 kbps could be close to being the lowest bit rate that the encoder can achieve with the parameters you used. So, even if you put 9.6 kbps as a target rate, the encoder cannot go that low and thus the quality of the video is more or less the same as for 64 kbps. Check the file sizes of the compressed bit streams and calculate the true bit rate the encoder used. With normal coding conditions that's the lowest bit rate (and quality) you get with Momusys. BR, Jani From the_ether btinternet.com Mon Sep 9 20:59:25 2002 From: the_ether btinternet.com (the_ether) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Text Message-ID: <00ee01c25833$09b46970$0100a8c0@DesktopGC> Hi Is there anything within MPEG-4 to help with handling text? Regards graham -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020909/730644ff/attachment.html From the_ether btinternet.com Mon Sep 9 21:28:37 2002 From: the_ether btinternet.com (the_ether) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Text References: Message-ID: <017c01c25837$1bdab9c0$0100a8c0@DesktopGC> I just mean that if I have a video with text on it and also know what that text is, is there anything in MPEG-4 that will allow me to transmit that in a better way than simply treating it as just an ordinary image? The block-based technique makes it difficult to read. So perhaps BIFS allows me to transmit text and the font type so that the decoder can draw it from scratch, or perhaps I just make sure I use the smallest block size possible, such as 4x4 in h26L. ----- Original Message ----- From: Levantovsky, Vladimir To: 'the_ether' ; technotes@lists.m4if.org Sent: Monday, September 09, 2023 8:17 PM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Text Can you please be more specific on what kind of text handling functionality you are looking for? Thank you, Vlad -----Original Message----- From: the_ether [mailto:the_ether@btinternet.com] Sent: Monday, September 09, 2023 2:59 PM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Text Hi Is there anything within MPEG-4 to help with handling text? Regards graham -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020909/a79ba55c/attachment.html From alisson dsc.ufcg.edu.br Mon Sep 9 12:42:29 2002 From: alisson dsc.ufcg.edu.br (Alisson Vasconcelos de Brito / Pos. COPIN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question on MoMuSys FGS Reference Software In-Reply-To: <003301c257b7$863d6f40$0602a8c0@adminpc> Message-ID: Hi all, I am also using the Momusys FGS reference software, but the user manual does not help us how to encode using FGS .par files. I have tried both encoder as FGS_server, but they didnt work. Can anybody helps me? Thanks, Alisson Brito. On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Weiping Li wrote: > Andrea, > > The current FGS in MPEG-4 is only defined to work with rectangular video > sequences. The combination of FGS with arbitrarily shaped objects is not > in MPEG-4. That's why the reference software does not work in this case. > > Best regards, > > Weiping > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2023 1:55 AM > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question on MoMuSys FGS Reference Software > > > > Hi all, > > > > I'm a student at the University of Rome3 and I'm working on MPEG-4. In > > particular I'm interested in object based FGS. > > I'm using MoMuSys FGS Reference Software and I can encode and decode > > successfully rectangular sequences, but I have problems when I use > > sequences and binary alpha planes. I manage to encode successfully a > > video object but when I try to decode the bistreams I receive the > > message: > > > > Initialize FGS data array... > > > > ERROR(ecalloc): Wrong size: <=0 > > > > Could someone help me? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Andrea Ambrosioni > > _______________________________________________ > > Technotes mailing list > > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From alisson pontoweb.psi.br Mon Sep 9 13:03:13 2002 From: alisson pontoweb.psi.br (Alisson Brito) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question on MoMuSys FGS Reference Software References: <003301c257b7$863d6f40$0602a8c0@adminpc> Message-ID: <004801c25812$04e27200$5302a8c0@pontoweb.psi.br> Hi all, I am also using the MoMoSys FGS reference software but the user?s manual doesn?t help us on how to encode using FGS .par files. I?ve tried both enconder and FGS_server but I couldn?t make it work. Can anybody help me? Thanks, Alisson Brito. -----Mensagem Original----- De: Weiping Li Para: ; Cc: Enviada em: Segunda-feira, 9 de Setembro de 2002 00:57 Assunto: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Question on MoMuSys FGS Reference Software > Andrea, > > The current FGS in MPEG-4 is only defined to work with rectangular video > sequences. The combination of FGS with arbitrarily shaped objects is not > in MPEG-4. That's why the reference software does not work in this case. > > Best regards, > > Weiping > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2023 1:55 AM > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question on MoMuSys FGS Reference Software > > > > Hi all, > > > > I'm a student at the University of Rome3 and I'm working on MPEG-4. In > > particular I'm interested in object based FGS. > > I'm using MoMuSys FGS Reference Software and I can encode and decode > > successfully rectangular sequences, but I have problems when I use > > sequences and binary alpha planes. I manage to encode successfully a > > video object but when I try to decode the bistreams I receive the > > message: > > > > Initialize FGS data array... > > > > ERROR(ecalloc): Wrong size: <=0 > > > > Could someone help me? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Andrea Ambrosioni > > _______________________________________________ > > Technotes mailing list > > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From Vladimir.Levantovsky AgfaMonotype.com Mon Sep 9 16:17:02 2002 From: Vladimir.Levantovsky AgfaMonotype.com (Levantovsky, Vladimir) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Text Message-ID: Can you please be more specific on what kind of text handling functionality you are looking for? Thank you, Vlad -----Original Message----- From: the_ether [mailto:the_ether@btinternet.com] Sent: Monday, September 09, 2023 2:59 PM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Text Hi Is there anything within MPEG-4 to help with handling text? Regards graham -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020909/dd78ef2d/attachment.html From Vladimir.Levantovsky AgfaMonotype.com Mon Sep 9 16:55:53 2002 From: Vladimir.Levantovsky AgfaMonotype.com (Levantovsky, Vladimir) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:45 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Text Message-ID: I agree with you 100%, the coding of text as an image is both quality-loosing and bandwidth-consuming technique. As far as simple text messaging is concerned, current BIFS tools allow to define "Text" node and "FontStyle" nodes, so it's possible to transmit the text string and signal font family, style and direction of text rendering. A text string is supposed to be rendered using one of the default fonts available in the decoder and, in general, the resulting appearance of the text string and it's layout will be unknown due to the fact the default fonts and their metrics are not standardized by MPEG-4. If the exact appearance and layout of the text message is required, then it would be possible to achieve it only if original font information is embedded in the BIFS stream, which requires decoder to be able to render specific font format(s). These advanced text support tools are considered to be added to the MPEG-4 Systems. I have related question: what is the font rendering capabilities and/or font format(s) that are currently supported by your decoder? Thanks, Vlad -----Original Message----- From: the_ether [mailto:the_ether@btinternet.com] Sent: Monday, September 09, 2023 3:29 PM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Text I just mean that if I have a video with text on it and also know what that text is, is there anything in MPEG-4 that will allow me to transmit that in a better way than simply treating it as just an ordinary image? The block-based technique makes it difficult to read. So perhaps BIFS allows me to transmit text and the font type so that the decoder can draw it from scratch, or perhaps I just make sure I use the smallest block size possible, such as 4x4 in h26L. ----- Original Message ----- From: Levantovsky, Vladimir To: 'the_ether' ; technotes@lists.m4if.org Sent: Monday, September 09, 2023 8:17 PM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Text Can you please be more specific on what kind of text handling functionality you are looking for? Thank you, Vlad -----Original Message----- From: the_ether [mailto:the_ether@btinternet.com] Sent: Monday, September 09, 2023 2:59 PM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Text Hi Is there anything within MPEG-4 to help with handling text? Regards graham -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020909/e9dc4dda/attachment.html From gnitin noida.hcltech.com Tue Sep 10 15:16:33 2002 From: gnitin noida.hcltech.com (Nitin Gupta--DSP, Noida) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:45 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Visual Object Sequence Start Code Message-ID: Hi all, I have a querry regarding the visual object sequence header. The standard mentions "The Visual Object Sequence Header, the Visual Object Header and the Video Object Layer Header may be repeated in a single visual bitstream. Repeating these headers enables random access into the visual bitstream and recovery of these headers when the original headers are corrupted by errors." in section 6.2.1 of the video standard on page no 33. I want to know that when Visual Object Sequence Header, the Visual Object Header and the Video Object Layer Header are repeated, do they have to be present in the same order again or is it possible to just get a VOL header alone ?? Thanx & Regards, Nitin. -----Original Message----- From: emre.aksu@nokia.com [mailto:emre.aksu@nokia.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2023 7:16 PM To: chris@avipix.com Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Visual Object Sequence Start Code Hi Christopher, > Having multiple visual_object_sequence_start_code's without question > should be supported by all decoders. There are many > applications that > need to support this including live broadcasting and other > applications > involving potential channel errors. For sure, I have no problems with that. I think you can put in as many visual_object_sequence_start_codes as you like, as long as you have a visual_object_sequence_end_code finalizing a previous strat code, I think. Otherwise, how can we identify a serialized structure of visual object sequences? Once again, a reference from 14996-2:2001: Section 6.1.1: " Visual object sequence is the highest syntactic structure of the coded visual bitstream. A visual object sequence commences with a visual_object_sequence_start_code which is followed by one or more visual objects coded concurrently. The visual object sequence is terminated by a visual_object_sequence_end_code." How should we interpret the first and last sentences together, if we allow randomly inserted visual_object_sequence_start_codes ending a previous visual object sequence? The very same structure ( visual_object_sequence_start_code followed by another visual_object_sequence_start_code) can be interpreted as a frame loss by the decoder, which was expecting a visual_object_sequence_end_code before a start code as stated in section 6.1.1. Best Regards, Emre Emre Baris Aksu Nokia Corp. > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Christopher Wendt [mailto:chris@avipix.com] > Sent: 03. September 2002 16:03 > To: Aksu Emre (NMP/Tampere) > Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Visual Object Sequence Start Code > > > Hi Emre, > > Having multiple visual_object_sequence_start_code's without question > should be supported by all decoders. There are many > applications that > need to support this including live broadcasting and other > applications > involving potential channel errors. > > -Chris > > _____________________________________ > Christopher Wendt, Avipix Technology Corp > chris@avipix.com > 484.951.4932 > http://www.avipix.com > > _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From emre.aksu nokia.com Tue Sep 10 15:22:29 2002 From: emre.aksu nokia.com (emre.aksu@nokia.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:46 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Visual Object Sequence Start Code Message-ID: Hello Nitin, all, > "The Visual Object Sequence Header, the Visual Object Header > and the Video > Object Layer Header may be repeated in a single visual > bitstream. Repeating > these headers enables random access into the visual bitstream > and recovery > of these headers when the original headers are corrupted by errors." > > in section 6.2.1 of the video standard on page no 33. I believe this is true when you have "Combined Configuration / Elementary Stream", e.g. , when you are streaming. Another section which is above this paragraph is called for "Seperate Configuration / Elementary Stream" , where it states: "When coded visual objects are carried within a Systems bitstream defined by ISO/IEC 14496-1:1999, configuration information and elementary stream data are always carried separately. " So, now I realized that I have to re-phrase my question, especially making the following distinction to resolve the misunderstanding: Assuming that the bitstream is stored in a container file (e.g. a 3GP file or an MP4 file), where the configuration information is seperated from the elementary stream, and present in the VisualSampleEntry box, is it allowed to have the configuration information in the video track data, and possibly starting with a VOS_Start_Code without a VOS_end_code? > I want to know that when Visual Object Sequence Header, the > Visual Object > Header and the Video Object Layer Header are repeated, do > they have to be > present in the same order again or is it possible to just get > a VOL header > alone ?? I believe the answer to "when" is very much an implementattional issue, how you'd like to cope with channel errors or loss of data in this case. Best Regards, Emre > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Nitin Gupta--DSP, Noida [mailto:gnitin@noida.hcltech.com] > Sent: 10. September 2002 11:47 > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Visual Object Sequence Start Code > > > Hi all, > I have a querry regarding the visual object sequence header. The > standard mentions > > "The Visual Object Sequence Header, the Visual Object Header > and the Video > Object Layer Header may be repeated in a single visual > bitstream. Repeating > these headers enables random access into the visual bitstream > and recovery > of these headers when the original headers are corrupted by errors." > > in section 6.2.1 of the video standard on page no 33. > > > I want to know that when Visual Object Sequence Header, the > Visual Object > Header and the Video Object Layer Header are repeated, do > they have to be > present in the same order again or is it possible to just get > a VOL header > alone ?? > > Thanx & Regards, > Nitin. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: emre.aksu@nokia.com [mailto:emre.aksu@nokia.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2023 7:16 PM > To: chris@avipix.com > Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Visual Object Sequence Start Code > > > Hi Christopher, > > > Having multiple visual_object_sequence_start_code's without > question > > should be supported by all decoders. There are many > > applications that > > need to support this including live broadcasting and other > > applications > > involving potential channel errors. > > For sure, I have no problems with that. I think you can put in as many > visual_object_sequence_start_codes as you like, as long as you have a > visual_object_sequence_end_code finalizing a previous strat > code, I think. > Otherwise, how can we identify a serialized structure of visual object > sequences? > > Once again, a reference from 14996-2:2001: > Section 6.1.1: > " Visual object sequence is the highest syntactic structure > of the coded > visual bitstream. > A visual object sequence commences with a > visual_object_sequence_start_code > which is followed by one or more visual objects coded > concurrently. The > visual object sequence is terminated by a > visual_object_sequence_end_code." > > How should we interpret the first and last sentences > together, if we allow > randomly inserted visual_object_sequence_start_codes ending a previous > visual object sequence? The very same structure ( > visual_object_sequence_start_code followed by another > visual_object_sequence_start_code) can be interpreted as a > frame loss by the > decoder, which was expecting a > visual_object_sequence_end_code before a > start code as stated in section 6.1.1. > > > Best Regards, > Emre > > Emre Baris Aksu > Nokia Corp. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ext Christopher Wendt [mailto:chris@avipix.com] > > Sent: 03. September 2002 16:03 > > To: Aksu Emre (NMP/Tampere) > > Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org > > Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Visual Object Sequence Start Code > > > > > > Hi Emre, > > > > Having multiple visual_object_sequence_start_code's without > question > > should be supported by all decoders. There are many > > applications that > > need to support this including live broadcasting and other > > applications > > involving potential channel errors. > > > > -Chris > > > > _____________________________________ > > Christopher Wendt, Avipix Technology Corp > > chris@avipix.com > > 484.951.4932 > > http://www.avipix.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From egoam libero.it Wed Sep 11 22:41:42 2002 From: egoam libero.it (Andrea Ambrosioni) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:47 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Creating MPEG-4 contents and playing them Message-ID: <000401c259cb$f77a0f40$0101a8c0@roma.it> Hi all. I have two questions for you. 1. I'd like to create MPEG-4 contents to stream over RTP (in particular I want to use object based spatial scalability). For this purpose I downloaded the mpeg-4 reference software (system and video implementation). I used MoMuSys video encoder and I obtained two compressed bitstream (base and enhancement) for each object. After this I think I should: - prepare a file with BIFS and OD textual descriptions and encode it with BifsEnc; - write a script file and use it to create a .mp4 file with mp4Enc. Is this procedure correct? 2. After having created a .mp4 file I'd like to play it. Do you know where I can find a MPEG-4 player which supports object based spatial scalability? Best regards, Andrea Ambrosioni -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020911/086034ca/attachment.html From vmorais inescporto.pt Wed Sep 11 18:03:25 2002 From: vmorais inescporto.pt (Vagner Morais) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:47 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Momusys encoder Message-ID: <004c01c259ef$d10e0d10$611875c2@gauss> Hi all, I would like to know how can i see (display) the file generated by the encoder MOMUSYS. Is there any tool to see this files. Thanks in advance for comments. *************************************************************************************************** Vagner David Pinto Morais INESC - Porto | Instituto de Engenharia de Sistemas e Computadores do Porto Unidade de Telecomunica??es e Multim?dia Grupo de An?lise e S?ntese de Imagem Email : vmorais@inescporto.pt Tel. : +351 222094233 ****************************************************************************************************** _________ http://www.inescn.pt __| \ / | Campus da FEUP ___| /\ ___/\ | Rua Dr. Roberto Frias, n? 378 ___ |/_______\| 4200-465 PORTO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ******************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020911/06a88075/attachment.html From yangwj lucent.com Thu Sep 12 10:08:34 2002 From: yangwj lucent.com (Yang, Wei Jian (Mac)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Momusys encoder Message-ID: <6999EF22C12CD4119A6800508B65021F0244E195@CI0027EXCH001U> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DisplayCIF.exe Type: application/octet-stream Size: 58880 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020912/b4846da3/DisplayCIF.exe From yangwj lucent.com Thu Sep 12 10:13:26 2002 From: yangwj lucent.com (Yang, Wei Jian (Mac)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Momusys wavelet coding Message-ID: <6999EF22C12CD4119A6800508B65021F0244E196@CI0027EXCH001U> hello, MPEG-4 expertise: How can I use DWT instead of DCT to encode a raw sequence in Momusys encoder ? Should I assign a .vtc file for it? or Is there any switch in .cfg and .ctl file? Thanks Yang, Wei Jian (Mac) Bell labs, Shanghai Lucent Technologies (China) Co., Ltd. Tel: 8621-5450-4555 ext. 8610 Fax: 8621-5490-2106 E-mail: yangwj@lucent.com From rkoenen intertrust.com Thu Sep 12 00:57:56 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Momusys encoder Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D5901324A26@exchange.epr.com> Please refrain from posting executables to this list. They may contain virusses and will be replaced by many gateways anyway. THey also trigger a lot of administrative messages that I do not want to have to deal with. Rob -----Original Message----- From: Yang, Wei Jian (Mac) [mailto:yangwj@lucent.com] Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2023 3:09 To: 'Vagner Morais' Cc: Technotes (E-mail) Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Momusys encoder Hello, Morais: If you want to watch encoder effeciency, you can check the re-constructed raw data using the player in attachment. But I do not know how to play the .bits coded stream. Regards Yang, Wei Jian (Mac) Bell labs, Shanghai Lucent Technologies (China) Co., Ltd. Tel: 8621-5450-4555 ext. 8610 Fax: 8621-5490-2106 E-mail: yangwj@lucent.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020911/af1037f8/attachment.html From mortenb mips.com Thu Sep 12 16:30:48 2002 From: mortenb mips.com (Morten Boysen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Standard conforming bitstream for Simple Visual Profile Message-ID: <3D809708.8030704@mips.com> Hi all I am currently working on my bachelor project in EE. A part of this includes the decoding of MPEG-4 Simple Visual Profile. The problems is, that I am having some problems identifying, or finding, compressed Simple Objects. Through a link on the m4if.org homepage, I have found a whole bunch of compressed files: ftp://ftp.tnt.uni-hannover.de/pub/MPEG/video/conformance/version_1/ The problem is, that there does not seem to be any documentation that specifies, which profile was used to encode which file. If you know of any documentation to these files, i will be glad to hear. If you have any links to compressed video, that you know are encoded using the Simple Profile, I will happy, if you would let me know. Finally: if you know of a method to extract the profile information directly from a compressed file, that would also be a great help. Thanks -- -- _ _ ____ ___ Morten Boysen Mailto:mortenb@mips.com |\ /|||___)(___ MIPS Denmark Direct: +45 44 86 55 45 | \/ ||| ____) Lautrupvang 4 B Switch: +45 44 86 55 55 TECHNOLOGIES DK-2750 Ballerup Fax...: +45 44 86 55 56 Denmark http://www.mips.com/ From Jani.Huoponen hantro.com Fri Sep 13 00:18:17 2002 From: Jani.Huoponen hantro.com (Jani Huoponen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Standard conforming bitstream for Simple Vis ual Profile Message-ID: Hi Morten, > Finally: if you > know of a method to extract the profile information directly from a > compressed file, that would also be a great help. If the files you are referring to include Visual Object Sequence header then the first 32 bits in the stream present the Visual Object Sequence Start Code and the next 8 bits will show you which Profile and Level was used. That field is called profile_and_level_indication and the corresponding codes are defined in the Annex G (Table G-1) of the Visual standard. For instance, the bit sequence "0000 0001" refers to Simple Profile/Level 1. BR, Jani > Thanks > > -- > -- > _ _ ____ ___ Morten Boysen Mailto:mortenb@mips.com > |\ /|||___)(___ MIPS Denmark Direct: +45 44 86 55 45 > | \/ ||| ____) Lautrupvang 4 B Switch: +45 44 86 55 55 > TECHNOLOGIES DK-2750 Ballerup Fax...: +45 44 86 55 56 > Denmark http://www.mips.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From scasi mediaglyphics.com Thu Sep 12 15:33:21 2002 From: scasi mediaglyphics.com (Sandeep Casi) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] mpeg2 DCT Vs mpeg 4 DCT Message-ID: <015001c25aa4$048ed0c0$6502a8c0@fxpal.com> Hi, What is the difference if any between mpeg2 and mpeg4 interms of DCT, motion estimation, etc. I am trying to port mpeg2 DCT based algorithm to mpeg4 and would like to know if anything is common between mpeg2 & mpeg4. Please also point me to any documents that would help me. thanks, Sandeep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020912/6466bbdb/attachment.html From heat_mist yahoo.com Thu Sep 12 15:42:34 2002 From: heat_mist yahoo.com (Heat Mist) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] The content in the DecoderSpecificInfo Message-ID: <20020912214234.50149.qmail@web14503.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, According to the spec 14496-1, if the value of DecoderConfigDescriptor.objectTypeIndication refers to streams complying ISO/IEEC 14496-2, the syntax and sematics of decoder specific info are defined in Annex K of the spec. My question is: in above case, does the syntax and sematics of decoderSpecficInfo have to comply to Annex K or what is defined in Annex K is just an option for the content in decoder specific info descriptor? According to Annex K, "VisualObjectSequence() is transmitted explicitly in each DecConfigDescr.DecSpecificInfo of an Object Descriptor". Does this mean that the content should follow what it is defined in 6.2.2 of 14496-2? Thanks, Chen __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From wli007007 yahoo.com.cn Fri Sep 13 19:07:51 2002 From: wli007007 yahoo.com.cn (=?gb2312?q?wei=20li?=) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] AudioBuffer & MediaBuffer Message-ID: <20020913100751.97046.qmail@web15103.mail.bjs.yahoo.com> Hello, I have some questions about this two media node: 1. If a AudioBuffer node as child of a AudioSource node, and AudioSource have a url field,what kind of sound should be produced ? 2.Where the MediaBuffer node should put it stored media data ? 3.How can other node use the media data stored in AudioBuffer and Mediabuffer ? Thanks ! wli --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? ÑÅ»¢ÓéÀÖÐÂÏʵ½µ×,µç×ÓÖܱ¨¿ìÀÖµ½¼Ò! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020913/356ef4b2/attachment.html From Igor.Pandzic fer.hr Fri Sep 13 10:09:03 2002 From: Igor.Pandzic fer.hr (Igor Pandzic) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:48 2003 Subject: [Fwd: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Books] In-Reply-To: <3D80FD53.59510B61@f2f-inc.com> Message-ID: Hi, Let me add another one, very focused on FA: MPEG-4 Facial Animation: The Standard, Implementation and Applications Igor S. Pandzic (Editor), Robert Forchheimer (Editors) http://www.wiley.com/cda/product/0,,0470844655,00.html Regards, Igor > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Books > Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2023 15:13:31 -0700 > From: Ben Waggoner > To: > > (Rob Koenen asked me to copy this over from the Streaming Media > MPEG-4 list) > > Folks, > > There are a number of books about and discussing MPEG-4 out now. > > I got the "The MPEG-4 Book" edited by Fernando Pereira and Touradj > Ebrahimi last week. It is quite good, and definitely the first > truly useful > reference on MPEG-4. Finally, an actual document which covers all the > tools, profiles, and levels used in the myriad facets of the MPEG-4 > standard! Compared to the standard itself, it's much more readable and > much, much cheaper. The book also has an interesting overview of > the MPEG-4 > standards process, and information on verification. > Overall, it's a must have for anyone involved in the creation > of MPEG-4 > products, and technically inclined content folks looking to > implement MPEG-4 > solutions. It's not the kind of book that gets read cover to cover, but > I've found myself pulling it down from the bookshelf a couple times a day > since I've got it, answering a question in 30 seconds that would > have taken > 30 minutes on the web. > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0130616214/benwaggoner-20 > > This is the first MPEG-4 book I've found worthy to add to my favorite > compression books section of my website: > > http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm > > Another interesting but somewhat disingenuously titled book is "MPEG-4 > Jump-Start" by Aaron E. Walsh and Mikael Bourges-Sevenier. It's > really all > about doing rich media in MPEG-4. It looks like it would be very > useful for > anyone doings BIFS, but doesn't have much applicable to the > audio/video/streaming side of things. > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0130600369/benwaggoner-20 > > There is also the compelling sounding, but as yet unread "MPEG-4 > Demystified" by Peter Symes. Amazon only has it as some kind of special > order, and mine hasn't shown up yet. This is surprising, since > his previous > books haven't had any unusual distribution. Anyway, I haven't read this > book yet, but Symes's excellent "Video Compression Demystified" was a > clearly written and well illustrated introduction to modern video > and audio > codecs. If his MPEG-4 book is half as good, it'll be great. > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0071388893/benwaggoner-20 > > > And I just discovered that Amazon.com is now shipping MY book about > video compression (a couple of weeks early)! The book is for hands-on > compressionists, and covers compression theory, preprocessing, > workflow, and > many formats. MPEG-4 has its own pretty long chapter (which Rob Koenen > helped me out with). > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/157820111X/benwaggoner-20 > > Should definitely be useful for those looking to make MPEG-4 audio and > Video files. Those making MPEG-4 compression tools would > probably find the > sections on preprocessing and compression tools, and the tutorials, very > useful in understanding what mainstream commercial encoding tools > look like > and do. > > There are a number of other forthcoming MPEG-4 books that look very > interesting, like one from the voluble John Watkinson, and a followup to > "Jump-Start." > > > Ben Waggoner > Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding > > My Book: http://www.benwaggoner.com/books.htm > Cleaner Tutorial: http://www.saferseas.com/navseries/adclean.html > Cleaner e-book: http://www.ebooktech.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=279 > Compression Books: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm > > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From francescofalconi msn.com Fri Sep 13 13:11:26 2002 From: francescofalconi msn.com (Francesco Falconi) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] I nedd your help for my codec-project Message-ID: Hello to everyone, i hope moderators could excuse me if this is a bit off topic. I have made a new project, a codec derived from ISO standard free source. You could find some information about improvements in http://www.libreriamondadori.grosseto.it/go!eye.htm I'd like that you partecipate in my pool, to evaluate the parameter quantization-quality and psychomask level. http://www.libreriamondadori.grosseto.it/test1.htm Thanks to all for your time. Francesco Falconi University of Siena _________________________________________________________________ MSN Foto ? il sistema pi? facile per condividere e stampare foto online: http://photos.msn.it From salo rucus.ru.ac.za Sun Sep 15 22:50:23 2002 From: salo rucus.ru.ac.za (Nik) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Mpeg-4 - hex values and authoring tool Message-ID: <000401c25cf1$2229e580$9679e792@beast> Hi there :) Firstly, can anyone tell me where to find a table of the supported stream types for the mux'er, and their equivalent hex values? I'm especially looking for the Mpeg-4 file type value. Secondly, what are the tools being used to author mpeg-4 content? I mean of course the BIFS/OD streams, layout etc., not the AV compression. If the answer is to do it in XMT, are there any preferred tools for authoring in it? Thanks in advance, Regards, Nicholas. From guraaf yahoo.co.in Mon Sep 16 13:49:49 2002 From: guraaf yahoo.co.in (Gaurav Aggarwal) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Predictive Motion Coding (was Re: MPEG-4 Books) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001a01c25d51$71af1930$6440840a@blr.broadcom.com> Dear all, I am trying to implement SP/ASP and recently got The MPEG-4 Book for a better understanding of the same. Since I am not decoding arbitrary shapes, I was skimming over Section 8.3 "Coding of Arbitrarily Shaped Video Objects" when I noticed that Section 8.3.3.2 Predictive Motion Vector Coding comes under Section 8.3.3 "Coding of Boundary MBs". Isn't predictive motion vector coding to be used even for rectangular VOPs, i.e., always for SP/ASP?? Am I missing something quite basic here? Also, can I treat the video_packet to be equivalent to the Slice concept in MPEG-2? What are the essential differences? Further, for direct mode motion compensation in B-VOPs, we need to do the TRB/TRD division. Isn't that going to be a little tough for silicon solutions where division isnt available. Has anyone given a thought to workarounds?? Thanks much!!! Gaurav > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Waggoner > Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2023 3:44 AM > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Books > > > (Rob Koenen asked me to copy this over from the Streaming Media > MPEG-4 list) > > Folks, > > There are a number of books about and discussing MPEG-4 out now. > > I got the "The MPEG-4 Book" edited by Fernando Pereira and Touradj > Ebrahimi last week. It is quite good, and definitely the first > truly useful > reference on MPEG-4. Finally, an actual document which covers all the > tools, profiles, and levels used in the myriad facets of the MPEG-4 > standard! Compared to the standard itself, it's much more readable and > much, much cheaper. The book also has an interesting overview of > the MPEG-4 standards process, and information on verification. ________________________________________________________________________ Missed your favourite TV serial last night? Try the new, Yahoo! TV. visit http://in.tv.yahoo.com From klaus itec.uni-klu.ac.at Mon Sep 16 11:21:28 2002 From: klaus itec.uni-klu.ac.at (Klaus Leopold) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] BVOPs question Message-ID: <200209161021.28393.klaus@itec.uni-klu.ac.at> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi *, I'm using the Microsoft-FPDAM MPEG-4 codec for encoding videos and have a question about BVOPs: I encoded different streams (ISO conformance - foreman, silent, etc.) with differnt numbers of B-VOPs. I noticed that on adding B-Frames the overall file size of the video INCREASES. The overhead for the silent stream is for example 10 % if I encode it with 2 B_between_P and 9 P_between_I to 0 B_between_P and 24 P_between_I. The theory about B-Frames says that they provide the highest level of compression. So my logical implication is that videos with B-Frames should be smaller than videos without B-Frames. Why does the Why does the FPDAM codec bahave different?? Klaus -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9hZSILsrg1vEBM0IRAtYSAJ0XmUjyXS2jnoIc5MuQbw2A0nafiACdFFfe d+IOfROBUVjjTLOWOpG8W4k= =4V+q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Mon Sep 16 22:10:45 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] The content in the DecoderSpecificInfo Message-ID: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC1010101EFDE@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> This annex is normative so it's what you shall do ... cu, O. > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Heat Mist [mailto:heat_mist@yahoo.com] > Envoye : jeudi 12 septembre 2002 23:43 > A : Technotes@lists.m4if.org > Objet : [M4IF Technotes] The content in the DecoderSpecificInfo > > > Hi, > > According to the spec 14496-1, if the value of > DecoderConfigDescriptor.objectTypeIndication refers to > streams complying ISO/IEEC 14496-2, the syntax and > sematics of decoder specific info are defined in Annex > K of the spec. > > My question is: in above case, does the syntax and > sematics of decoderSpecficInfo have to comply to Annex > K or what is defined in Annex K is just an option for > the content in decoder specific info descriptor? > > According to Annex K, "VisualObjectSequence() is > transmitted explicitly in each > DecConfigDescr.DecSpecificInfo of an Object > Descriptor". Does this mean that the content should > follow what it is defined in 6.2.2 of 14496-2? > > Thanks, > > Chen > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! News - Today's headlines > http://news.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From heat_mist yahoo.com Mon Sep 16 15:59:03 2002 From: heat_mist yahoo.com (Heat Mist) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] The content in the DecoderSpecificInfo In-Reply-To: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC1010101EFDE@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> Message-ID: <20020916215903.76294.qmail@web14504.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks, that is what I thought. The reason that I am asking is that the mp4 files that I downloaded from ENST don't conform to this. Any other resources to get mp4 files? Chen --- AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN wrote: > This annex is normative so it's what you shall do > ... > cu, > O. > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Heat Mist [mailto:heat_mist@yahoo.com] > > Envoye : jeudi 12 septembre 2002 23:43 > > A : Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > Objet : [M4IF Technotes] The content in the > DecoderSpecificInfo > > > > > > Hi, > > > > According to the spec 14496-1, if the value of > > DecoderConfigDescriptor.objectTypeIndication > refers to > > streams complying ISO/IEEC 14496-2, the syntax and > > sematics of decoder specific info are defined in > Annex > > K of the spec. > > > > My question is: in above case, does the syntax and > > sematics of decoderSpecficInfo have to comply to > Annex > > K or what is defined in Annex K is just an option > for > > the content in decoder specific info descriptor? > > > > According to Annex K, "VisualObjectSequence() is > > transmitted explicitly in each > > DecConfigDescr.DecSpecificInfo of an Object > > Descriptor". Does this mean that the content > should > > follow what it is defined in 6.2.2 of 14496-2? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Chen > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! News - Today's headlines > > http://news.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Technotes mailing list > > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From singer apple.com Mon Sep 16 17:06:46 2002 From: singer apple.com (Dave Singer) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] The content in the DecoderSpecificInfo In-Reply-To: <20020916215903.76294.qmail@web14504.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020916215903.76294.qmail@web14504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: At 14:59 -0700 9/16/02, Heat Mist wrote: >Thanks, that is what I thought. The reason that I am >asking is that the mp4 files that I downloaded from >ENST don't conform to this. Any other resources to get >mp4 files? Lots of them. Can you be more specific about what you are (or are not) seeing? > >Chen > >--- AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN > wrote: >> This annex is normative so it's what you shall do >> ... >> cu, >> O. >> >> > -----Message d'origine----- >> > De : Heat Mist [mailto:heat_mist@yahoo.com] >> > Envoye : jeudi 12 septembre 2002 23:43 >> > A : Technotes@lists.m4if.org >> > Objet : [M4IF Technotes] The content in the >> DecoderSpecificInfo >> > >> > >> > Hi, >> > >> > According to the spec 14496-1, if the value of >> > DecoderConfigDescriptor.objectTypeIndication >> refers to >> > streams complying ISO/IEEC 14496-2, the syntax and >> > sematics of decoder specific info are defined in >> Annex >> > K of the spec. >> > >> > My question is: in above case, does the syntax and >> > sematics of decoderSpecficInfo have to comply to >> Annex >> > K or what is defined in Annex K is just an option >> for >> > the content in decoder specific info descriptor? >> > >> > According to Annex K, "VisualObjectSequence() is >> > transmitted explicitly in each >> > DecConfigDescr.DecSpecificInfo of an Object >> > Descriptor". Does this mean that the content >> should >> > follow what it is defined in 6.2.2 of 14496-2? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Chen >> > >> > __________________________________________________ >> > Do you Yahoo!? >> > Yahoo! News - Today's headlines >> > http://news.yahoo.com >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Technotes mailing list >> > Technotes@lists.m4if.org >> > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes >> > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! News - Today's headlines >http://news.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >Technotes mailing list >Technotes@lists.m4if.org >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -- David Singer Apple Computer/QuickTime From zhenzhongc hotmail.com Tue Sep 17 12:18:31 2002 From: zhenzhongc hotmail.com (Zhen-Zhong Chen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] BVOPs question References: <200209161021.28393.klaus@itec.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: For B-frame, the compression rate depends on the efficiency of motion estimation and the temporal distance between two reference frames. I notice that the sequence Forman has a rapid modtion and changing background. The compression rate decreases in this case. Regards, Zhenzhong ----- Original Message ----- From: Klaus Leopold To: list-m4if Sent: Monday, September 16, 2023 4:21 PM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] BVOPs question > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi *, > > I'm using the Microsoft-FPDAM MPEG-4 codec for encoding videos and have a > question about BVOPs: > > I encoded different streams (ISO conformance - foreman, silent, etc.) with > differnt numbers of B-VOPs. I noticed that on adding B-Frames the overall > file size of the video INCREASES. The overhead for the silent stream is for > example 10 % if I encode it with 2 B_between_P and 9 P_between_I to 0 > B_between_P and 24 P_between_I. > > The theory about B-Frames says that they provide the highest level of > compression. So my logical implication is that videos with B-Frames should be > smaller than videos without B-Frames. Why does the Why does the FPDAM codec > bahave different?? > > Klaus > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > > iD8DBQE9hZSILsrg1vEBM0IRAtYSAJ0XmUjyXS2jnoIc5MuQbw2A0nafiACdFFfe > d+IOfROBUVjjTLOWOpG8W4k= > =4V+q > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From Jean-Claude.Dufourd enst.fr Tue Sep 17 10:53:39 2002 From: Jean-Claude.Dufourd enst.fr (Jean-Claude Dufourd) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] The content in the DecoderSpecificInfo References: <20020916215903.76294.qmail@web14504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D86DF83.9050703@enst.fr> Dear Mr Chen Heat Mist wrote: > The reason that I am > asking is that the mp4 files that I downloaded from > ENST don't conform to this. What ? This is impossible. ENST files are compliant by contruction. ;-)))) On a more serious notes, you seem to be talking about something strictly concerning video. Did I understand you correctly when I reformulate like this: you have found, in some ENST mp4 files, video streams for which the DecoderSpecificInfo syntax did not match your expectations according to 14496-2 ? If so, I need to issue a disclaimer: as much as we take care in preparing our mp4 files, our AV streams are only as good as our video and audio providers make them. These providers include a variety of sources. Please tell me which files so that I can pass the information to a video specialist. Best regards JC -- Jean-Claude Dufourd @======================================@ ENST, Dept COMELEC The wing, over the big rock... 46, rue Barrault @======================================@ 75013 Paris Tel: +33145817807 Fax: +33145804036 From heat_mist yahoo.com Tue Sep 17 08:37:22 2002 From: heat_mist yahoo.com (Heat Mist) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] The content in the DecoderSpecificInfo In-Reply-To: <3D86DF83.9050703@enst.fr> Message-ID: <20020917143722.40780.qmail@web14507.mail.yahoo.com> Yes, I downloaded a few mp4 files that contain video and/or audio. I haven't checked all of them. But the file called 4videomaxmin_light.mp4 from "MPEG-4 Content" link on ENST doesn't follow the visual DecoderSpecificInfo syntax defined in 14496-2. Furthermore, all the ES_IDs in this file are 0, which I thought should be different. If all the others mp4 files from "MPEG-4 Content" are from the same sources, they tend to have the same problem. Chen --- Jean-Claude Dufourd wrote: > Dear Mr Chen > > Heat Mist wrote: > > The reason that I am > > asking is that the mp4 files that I downloaded > from > > ENST don't conform to this. > > What ? This is impossible. ENST files are compliant > by contruction. ;-)))) > > On a more serious notes, you seem to be talking > about something strictly > concerning video. Did I understand you correctly > when I reformulate like > this: you have found, in some ENST mp4 files, video > streams for which > the DecoderSpecificInfo syntax did not match your > expectations according > to 14496-2 ? > If so, I need to issue a disclaimer: as much as we > take care in > preparing our mp4 files, our AV streams are only as > good as our video > and audio providers make them. These providers > include a variety of > sources. Please tell me which files so that I can > pass the information > to a video specialist. > > Best regards > JC > -- > Jean-Claude Dufourd > @======================================@ > ENST, Dept COMELEC The wing, over the > big rock... > 46, rue Barrault > @======================================@ > 75013 Paris Tel: +33145817807 Fax: > +33145804036 > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From Jean-Claude.Dufourd enst.fr Tue Sep 17 18:06:17 2002 From: Jean-Claude.Dufourd enst.fr (Jean-Claude Dufourd) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] The content in the DecoderSpecificInfo References: <20020917143722.40780.qmail@web14507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D8744E9.4050101@enst.fr> Heat Mist wrote: > Yes, I downloaded a few mp4 files that contain video > and/or audio. I haven't checked all of them. But the > file called 4videomaxmin_light.mp4 from "MPEG-4 > Content" link on ENST doesn't follow the visual > DecoderSpecificInfo syntax defined in 14496-2. Can you please be specific about the error ? This file works seamlessly with the TILAB/Optibase player, with the Envivio player, with the IM1-2D player. I feel confident that the error is minor if all these players accept that content without problem. > Furthermore, all the ES_IDs in this file are 0, which > I thought should be different. This is not a bug, this is a feature. The ES_ID field of the ES_Descriptor shall be set to 0 in the MP4 file, as stated in clause 13.2.1.4 of the Systems spec. Best regards JC -- Jean-Claude Dufourd @======================================@ ENST, Dept COMELEC The wing, over the big rock... 46, rue Barrault @======================================@ 75013 Paris Tel: +33145817807 Fax: +33145804036 From singer apple.com Tue Sep 17 09:21:44 2002 From: singer apple.com (Dave Singer) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] The content in the DecoderSpecificInfo In-Reply-To: <20020917143722.40780.qmail@web14507.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020917143722.40780.qmail@web14507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: At 7:37 AM -0700 9/17/02, Heat Mist wrote: >Yes, I downloaded a few mp4 files that contain video >and/or audio. I haven't checked all of them. But the >file called 4videomaxmin_light.mp4 from "MPEG-4 >Content" link on ENST doesn't follow the visual >DecoderSpecificInfo syntax defined in 14496-2. I admit I haven't downloaded these, and so the problem might be obvious, but it would help if you could tell us in what way they don't conform. >Furthermore, all the ES_IDs in this file are 0, which >I thought should be different. ES_ID is always 0 when it is stored in an MP4 file; it gets replaced by the trck_ID when the file is hinted or delivered (this is in the MP4 specification). >If all the others mp4 >files from "MPEG-4 Content" are from the same sources, >they tend to have the same problem. > >Chen > > >--- Jean-Claude Dufourd >wrote: >> Dear Mr Chen >> >> Heat Mist wrote: >> > The reason that I am >> > asking is that the mp4 files that I downloaded >> from >> > ENST don't conform to this. >> >> What ? This is impossible. ENST files are compliant >> by contruction. ;-)))) >> >> On a more serious notes, you seem to be talking >> about something strictly >> concerning video. Did I understand you correctly >> when I reformulate like >> this: you have found, in some ENST mp4 files, video >> streams for which >> the DecoderSpecificInfo syntax did not match your >> expectations according >> to 14496-2 ? >> If so, I need to issue a disclaimer: as much as we >> take care in >> preparing our mp4 files, our AV streams are only as >> good as our video >> and audio providers make them. These providers >> include a variety of >> sources. Please tell me which files so that I can >> pass the information >> to a video specialist. >> >> Best regards >> JC >> -- >> Jean-Claude Dufourd >> @======================================@ >> ENST, Dept COMELEC The wing, over the >> big rock... >> 46, rue Barrault >> @======================================@ >> 75013 Paris Tel: +33145817807 Fax: >> +33145804036 >> > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! News - Today's headlines >http://news.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >Technotes mailing list >Technotes@lists.m4if.org >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -- Dave Singer Apple Computer/QuickTime 408 974 3162 From heat_mist yahoo.com Tue Sep 17 10:28:24 2002 From: heat_mist yahoo.com (Heat Mist) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] The content in the DecoderSpecificInfo In-Reply-To: <3D8744E9.4050101@enst.fr> Message-ID: <20020917162824.85851.qmail@web14503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jean-Claude Dufourd wrote: > Heat Mist wrote: > > Yes, I downloaded a few mp4 files that contain > video > > and/or audio. I haven't checked all of them. But > the > > file called 4videomaxmin_light.mp4 from "MPEG-4 > > Content" link on ENST doesn't follow the visual > > DecoderSpecificInfo syntax defined in 14496-2. > > Can you please be specific about the error ? This > file works seamlessly > with the TILAB/Optibase player, with the Envivio > player, with the IM1-2D > player. I feel confident that the error is minor if > all these players > accept that content without problem. > In the 4 ES_Descriptors within the esds atom of mp4v stream, the DecoderSpecificInfo of the DecoderConfigDescriptor doesn't contain VisualObjectSequence(). (Shouldn't it? In 14496-2 Annex K: "VisualObjectSequence() is transmitted explicitly in each DecConfigDescr.DecSpecificInfo of an Object Descriptor".) chen > > Furthermore, all the ES_IDs in this file are 0, > which > > I thought should be different. > > This is not a bug, this is a feature. The ES_ID > field of the > ES_Descriptor shall be set to 0 in the MP4 file, as > stated in clause > 13.2.1.4 of the Systems spec. > > Best regards > JC > -- > Jean-Claude Dufourd > @======================================@ > ENST, Dept COMELEC The wing, over the > big rock... > 46, rue Barrault > @======================================@ > 75013 Paris Tel: +33145817807 Fax: > +33145804036 > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From singer apple.com Tue Sep 17 11:10:27 2002 From: singer apple.com (Dave Singer) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] The content in the DecoderSpecificInfo In-Reply-To: <20020917162824.85851.qmail@web14503.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020917162824.85851.qmail@web14503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: At 09:28 -0700 9/17/02, Heat Mist wrote: >--- Jean-Claude Dufourd >wrote: >> Heat Mist wrote: >> > Yes, I downloaded a few mp4 files that contain >> video >> > and/or audio. I haven't checked all of them. But >> the >> > file called 4videomaxmin_light.mp4 from "MPEG-4 >> > Content" link on ENST doesn't follow the visual >> > DecoderSpecificInfo syntax defined in 14496-2. >> >> Can you please be specific about the error ? This >> file works seamlessly >> with the TILAB/Optibase player, with the Envivio >> player, with the IM1-2D >> player. I feel confident that the error is minor if >> all these players >> accept that content without problem. >> > >In the 4 ES_Descriptors within the esds atom of mp4v >stream, the DecoderSpecificInfo of the >DecoderConfigDescriptor doesn't contain >VisualObjectSequence(). (Shouldn't it? In 14496-2 >Annex K: "VisualObjectSequence() is transmitted >explicitly in each DecConfigDescr.DecSpecificInfo of >an Object Descriptor".) > >chen Yes, I think it should. Here is a dump of the first track that I found with MPEG-4 video in it (the first video track has JPEG in it). The decoder-specific-info seems to start with a VOL, whereas strictly I think a VOSH is needed (see next example). [I'm dumping some fields here which are reserved in MP4, please don't get confused by that.] trak trak udta udta tkhd tkhd mdia mdia mdhd mdhd hdlr hdlr minf minf dinf dinf dref dref vmhd vmhd stbl stbl stts stts stsd stsd version 0 flags 000000 sdNumEntries 1 1 SdEntry sdSize 143 sdType mp4v datRefIndex 1 version 0000 revision 0000 vendor ???? tempquality 00000000 spatialquality 00000000 videowidth 0 videoheight 0 horiz_res 4718592 72.000000 vert_res 4718592 72.000000 datasize 00000000 framecount 0001 compressorname ?MPEG-4 Visual videodepth 0018 videoclutID -1 struct esds esds version 0 flags 000000 Descr size 42 esd esd ES_ID 0000 streamdependencefl?0 URL_flag 0 OCRStreamFlag 0 streampriority 10 Descr size 33 decoderconfig decconf objectType 20 streamtype 04 upstream 0 reserved 1 buffersize 0014D8 maxbitrate 00000000 avgBitrate 00000000 Descr size 18 dec_specific dec_specific v_start_code 01 VID_OBJ struct v_start_code 20 VOL struct random_acc_vol 0 vid_o_type 04 is_OL_ID 0 aspect_ratio_i?1 vol_ctrl_par 1 chroma_f 1 lo_delay 1 vbv_par 0 vol_shape 0 VOP_TimeInc_res000A fixed_VOP_rate 0 vol_width 160 vol_height 120 interlaced 0 obmc_disable 1 sprite_enable 0 not_8_bit 0 quant_type 0 complex_est_di?1 resynch_mkr_dis0 data_partition?0 v_scalability 0 Descr size 1 slconfigdescr slconfigdesc predefined 02 stsz stsz stsc stsc stss stss stco stco Here's one with all the layers in it: trak trak tkhd tkhd edts edts elst elst mdia mdia mdhd mdhd hdlr hdlr minf minf vmhd vmhd dinf dinf dref dref stbl stbl stsd stsd version 0 flags 000000 sdNumEntries 1 1 SdEntry sdSize 155 sdType mp4v datRefIndex 1 version 0000 revision 0000 vendor 00000000 tempquality 00000000 spatialquality 00000000 videowidth 320 videoheight 240 horiz_res 4718592 72.000000 vert_res 4718592 72.000000 datasize 00000000 framecount 0001 compressorname ? videodepth 0018 videoclutID -1 esds esds version 0 flags 000000 Descr size 55 esd esd ES_ID 0000 streamdependenceflag0 URL_flag 0 OCRStreamFlag 0 streampriority 1F Descr size 47 decoderconfig decconf objectType 20 streamtype 04 upstream 0 reserved 1 buffersize 001000 maxbitrate 00001000 avgBitrate 00001000 Descr size 32 dec_specific dec_specific v_start_code B0 VOSH struct v_profile F3 v_start_code B5 VO struct is_v_OID 0 vis_o_type 1 v_signal_type 1 video_format 5 video_range 1 colour_desc 1 colour_primaries02 transfer_char 06 matrix_coeff 06 v_start_code 00 VID_OBJ struct v_start_code 20 VOL struct random_acc_vol0 vid_o_type 01 is_OL_ID 0 aspect_ratio_?1 vol_ctrl_par 0 vol_shape 0 VOP_TimeInc_r?001E fixed_VOP_rate0 vol_width 320 vol_height 240 interlaced 0 obmc_disable 1 sprite_enable 0 not_8_bit 0 quant_type 0 complex_est_d?1 resynch_mkr_d?0 data_partitio?0 v_scalability 0 Descr size 1 slconfigdescr slconfigdesc predefined 02 stts stts stss stss stsc stsc stsz stsz stco stco -- David Singer Apple Computer/QuickTime -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020917/572ee267/attachment.html From Jean-Claude.Dufourd enst.fr Tue Sep 17 20:22:29 2002 From: Jean-Claude.Dufourd enst.fr (Jean-Claude Dufourd) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] The content in the DecoderSpecificInfo References: <20020917162824.85851.qmail@web14503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D8764D5.9090901@enst.fr> Dave Singer wrote: > Yes, I think it should. Here is a dump of the first track that I found > with MPEG-4 video in it (the first video track has JPEG in it). The > decoder-specific-info seems to start with a VOL, whereas strictly I > think a VOSH is needed (see next example). I am passing the buck to my video providers. I am not competent to debate about this matter. Best regards JC -- Jean-Claude Dufourd @======================================@ ENST, Dept COMELEC The wing, over the big rock... 46, rue Barrault @======================================@ 75013 Paris Tel: +33145817807 Fax: +33145804036 From vmorais inescporto.pt Tue Sep 17 19:56:05 2002 From: vmorais inescporto.pt (Vagner Morais) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Player IM1 3D Message-ID: <012401c25eb6$8c684e20$611875c2@gauss> Hi, I would like to know if the MPEG-4 Player IM1 - 3D support a video object encoded by Momusys encoder. If there is, where can i get a file .txt that describe a scene with a MPEG-4 video. Thanks by your attention. *************************************************************************************************** Vagner David Pinto Morais INESC - Porto | Instituto de Engenharia de Sistemas e Computadores do Porto Unidade de Telecomunica??es e Multim?dia Grupo de An?lise e S?ntese de Imagem Email : vmorais@inescporto.pt Tel. : +351 222094233 ****************************************************************************************************** _________ http://www.inescn.pt __| \ / | Campus da FEUP ___| /\ ___/\ | Rua Dr. Roberto Frias, n? 378 ___ |/_______\| 4200-465 PORTO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ******************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020917/b43cdc22/attachment.html From SassanP vbrick.com Tue Sep 17 16:06:22 2002 From: SassanP vbrick.com (Sassan Pejhan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Does MPEG-4 support Closed captioning? Message-ID: Hi, I was wondering if MPEG-4 has support for closed captioning. Since CC includes both text (ascii) and control characters (binary) I'm not sure if the MPEG-4 support for text would be adequte. Any pointers to the appropriate MPEG-4 documents would be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Sassan From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Tue Sep 17 22:19:02 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Player IM1 3D Message-ID: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC1010101F123@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> Hi, I would like to know if the MPEG-4 Player IM1 - 3D support a video object encoded by Momusys encoder. If there is, where can i get a file .txt that describe a scene with a MPEG-4 video. Thanks by your attention. It should. In case it does not, there are a couple of player that does. The one from SoNG, available at www.song-opi.org should work. The one at www.octaga.com as well but I have not tested it. HHI, in germany, has got one that I know works with Video. And bSoft also has a 3D player. cu, O. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020917/b67d179e/attachment.html From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Tue Sep 17 22:27:41 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Does MPEG-4 support Closed captioning? Message-ID: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC1010101F125@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> Dear Sassan, > I was wondering if MPEG-4 has support for closed captioning. > Since CC includes > both text (ascii) and control characters (binary) I'm not > sure if the MPEG-4 support > for text would be adequte. Any pointers to the appropriate > MPEG-4 documents would > be appreciated. It definitly does. You can currently create closed captionning in the form of a BIFS streams that can be frame by frame synchronized with the video (share the exact same clock). This has been demonstrated many times (last week in particular in a small workshop on MPEG-4 tools in Bruxelles organized by the EU). You can use a variety of fonts and effects. MPEG is currently defining extension to this text format to allow more predictible rendering both in terms of fonts support and layout management. Kind regards, Olivier From rtorres tsc.uc3m.es Wed Sep 18 11:41:07 2002 From: rtorres tsc.uc3m.es (Ricardo Torres) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] BVOPs question References: <200209161021.28393.klaus@itec.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <01d101c25eef$21f0d060$a49175a3@tsc.uc3m.es> You can try to use higher quantization step for the B-frame. (I don?t know if it is possible with the Microsoft MPEG-4 coder). If you use higher quantization steps for the B-frames the overall file size of the video will decrease, but the global quality hardly decrease, due to the B-Frames are not used as reference for coding the video sequence. Best regards, Ricardo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zhen-Zhong Chen" To: "Klaus Leopold" ; "list-m4if" Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2023 5:18 AM Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] BVOPs question > For B-frame, the compression rate depends on the efficiency of motion estimation and the temporal distance between two reference frames. I notice that the sequence Forman has a rapid modtion and changing background. The compression rate decreases in this case. > > Regards, > > Zhenzhong > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Klaus Leopold > To: list-m4if > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2023 4:21 PM > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] BVOPs question > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Hi *, > > > > I'm using the Microsoft-FPDAM MPEG-4 codec for encoding videos and have a > > question about BVOPs: > > > > I encoded different streams (ISO conformance - foreman, silent, etc.) with > > differnt numbers of B-VOPs. I noticed that on adding B-Frames the overall > > file size of the video INCREASES. The overhead for the silent stream is for > > example 10 % if I encode it with 2 B_between_P and 9 P_between_I to 0 > > B_between_P and 24 P_between_I. > > > > The theory about B-Frames says that they provide the highest level of > > compression. So my logical implication is that videos with B-Frames should be > > smaller than videos without B-Frames. Why does the Why does the FPDAM codec > > bahave different?? > > > > Klaus > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) > > Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > > > > iD8DBQE9hZSILsrg1vEBM0IRAtYSAJ0XmUjyXS2jnoIc5MuQbw2A0nafiACdFFfe > > d+IOfROBUVjjTLOWOpG8W4k= > > =4V+q > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Technotes mailing list > > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From chl math.uni-bonn.de Wed Sep 18 12:15:36 2002 From: chl math.uni-bonn.de (Christoph Lampert) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] BVOPs question In-Reply-To: <01d101c25eef$21f0d060$a49175a3@tsc.uc3m.es> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, Ricardo Torres wrote: > You can try to use higher quantization step for the B-frame. (I don´t know > if it is > > possible with the Microsoft MPEG-4 coder). > > If you use higher quantization steps for the B-frames the overall file size > of the video will decrease, > > but the global quality hardly decrease, due to the B-Frames are not used as > reference for coding > > the video sequence. _If_ B-frames result in lower overall bitrate at constant quality at all depends heavily on the input material. If you are lucky, even B-frames at same quantizer as P/I-frames will give you lower bitrate. If you are unlucky, even more than doubling the quantizer of B-frames will give higher bitrate than no B-frames at all. The problem is that even though B-frames are smaller than P-frames, the P-frames tend to get larger when the interval in which they are set increases. This might have been different for MPEG-2, but for MPEG-4 the main advantage of B-frames is not really reduced filesize. Christoph -- Christoph H. Lampert chl@math,uni-bonn,de | Diese Signature wurde maschi- Beringstr. 6, Zi. 14, 53115 Bonn, Germany | nell erstellt und bedarf Tel. (0228) 73-2948 Fax. +49 228 73-7916 | keiner Unterschrift. AZ 27B-6 From bj sasken.com Thu Sep 19 15:52:53 2002 From: bj sasken.com (B Jagadeesh) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Profile@Level Visual Image size In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, The following mail gives very useful information regarding the features supported in MPEG-4 Simple profile@Level0. Could you please clarify one more point regarding "vop_rounding_type" for Level0? Can this variable take the values zero and 1 as in Simple profile@Level1 or Level 0 supports rounding type to be only 0. thanks and regards, bj. On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Peter Haighton wrote: > Arcin, > > Level 0 came out as part of amendment 4. I do not know if ISO has > published it yet though, I don't think so. MPEG-4 Simple Profile Level 0 > has the following restrictions: > > a) The maximum frame rate shall be 15 frames per second; > b) The maximum f_code shall be 1; > c) The intra_dc_vlc_threshold shall be 0; > d) The maximum horizontal luminance pixel resolution shall be 176 > pels/line; > e) The maximum vertical luminance pixel resolution shall be 144 pels/VOP; > f) If AC prediction is used, the following restriction applies : QP value > shall not be changed within a VOP (or within a video packet if video > packets are used in a VOP). If AC prediction is not used, there are no > restrictions to changing QP value. > > Other than Level 0, Simple Profile does not specify maximum frame size. It > does specify buffer sizes which would for example not let you do CIF in > Level 1. > > Peter > -- > Peter Haighton > VideoSpheres Inc. > 84 Hines Road > Kanata, Ontario > Canada, K2K 3G3 > Tel: (613) 270-9646 x3022 > Fax: (613) 271-9442 > email: peterh@VideoSpheres.com > > See http://www.m4if.org for the latest on MPEG-4 > > -----Original Message----- > From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Arcin Bozkurt - > Archie > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2023 9:37 AM > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Profile@Level Visual Image size > > > I may be missing something here. > I have the MPEG-4 standard, but I haven't seen any Level 0 description. > Where can I get this information? > > I was trying to understand whether the size either in x or y dimension > was restricted to any value (as in the example you gave for SP@L0) > > Peter's example mentions an image of size 352x72 which is larger than a > QCIF for SP@L1, but the max MB of 99 restriction is met. > > Arcin > > >>>>>>> > > Dear Arcin, > > you were not mentioning Simple Profile @ Level 0 which explicitly > restricts > the image size to Width <= 176 pel and Height <= 144 pel. This P@L > combination is used e.g for 3GPP mobile terminals. > > Best regards, > Andreas > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dr.-Ing. Andreas Hutter > Siemens AG, Corporate Technology > CT IC 2 phone: +49 89 636-50417 > Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 fax: +49 89 636-51115 > 81730 Munich, Germany email: Andreas.Hutter@mchp.siemens.de > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Peter Haighton wrote: > > >Hello Arcin, > > > >The typical value means that this is what most implementations would > >probably use SP@L1 for, but you can use other strange and wonderful video > >shapes if desired. For example 352x72 but I don't of an application that > >would. > > > >So basically in real world scenarios you are correct that SP@L1 would be > >used for sizes up to QCIF. > > > >Peter > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > >[mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Arcin Bozkurt - > >Archie > >Sent: Friday, August 17, 2023 8:00 AM > >To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > >Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Profile@Level Visual Image size > > > > > > > >MPEG-4 is able to handle any size image with the information taken from > >video_object_layer_width and > >video_object_layer_height. > > > > > >Does Simple Profile @L1 or L2 or L3 bring any restrictions to this? > > > >Annex N.1 (definition of Visual Profiles@Levels), specifies a "typical" > >size which is for example QCIF for Simple Profile @ L1. Does this mean > >that SP@L1 support image sized UP TO QCIF?? This is in line with the > >MAXimum 99 MB per VOP restriction of SP@L1. > > > >Can you please clarify this issue? > > > >Arcin Bozkurt > >Lumic Electronics Inc. > > > >--------------------------IMPORTANT NOTICE------------------------------ > >This message is intended only for the use of the individual > >or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information > >that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under > >applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the > >intended, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering > >the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified > >that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this > >communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > >communication in error, please notify Lumic Electronics immediately. > >Thank you. > >--------------------------IMPORTANT NOTICE------------------------------ > > > >----------------------------AVIS IMPORTANT---------------------------- > >Le présent message n'est destiné qu'à la personne ou à l'entité > >à qui il est adressé, et peut contenir des renseignements de > >nature privilégiée et confidentielle qui ne doivent pas être > >divulgués en vertu des lois applicables. Si le lecteur du présent > >message n'est pas le destinataire prévu ou encore l'employé > >ou le mandataire chargé de remettre ce message au destinataire > >prévu, vous êtes par les présentes avisé que toute diffusion, > >distribution ou reproduction de cette communication est > >strictement interdite. Si vous avez reçu cette communication par > >erreur, veuillez en aviser Lumic Electronics immédiatement. Merci. > >---------------------------- AVIS IMPORTANT ---------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Technotes mailing list > >Technotes@lists.m4if.org > >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Technotes mailing list > >Technotes@lists.m4if.org > >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From vmorais inescporto.pt Thu Sep 19 15:07:27 2002 From: vmorais inescporto.pt (Vagner Morais) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Player IM1 Message-ID: <003301c26020$8f3c7840$611875c2@gauss> Is there any forum to discuss the MPEG-4 player IM1. I have 1 question about a scene (directory Kevin) that i can't play. Thanks by your attention *************************************************************************************************** Vagner David Pinto Morais INESC - Porto | Instituto de Engenharia de Sistemas e Computadores do Porto Unidade de Telecomunica??es e Multim?dia Grupo de An?lise e S?ntese de Imagem Email : vmorais@inescporto.pt Tel. : +351 222094233 ****************************************************************************************************** _________ http://www.inescn.pt __| \ / | Campus da FEUP ___| /\ ___/\ | Rua Dr. Roberto Frias, n? 378 ___ |/_______\| 4200-465 PORTO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ******************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020919/c2aff00f/attachment.html From biswas tataelxsi.co.in Fri Sep 20 16:58:37 2002 From: biswas tataelxsi.co.in (Biswajit Biswas) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Dynamic Range Control with MP3 stream Message-ID: <3D8AF855.99F79643@tataelxsi.co.in> Hi All, Can anyone suggest how to implement Dynamic Range Control with Mp3? MPEG-1 layer 3 audio encoder doesn't have any implementation for DRC. But DRC information can be generated at the encoder side and muxed with mp3 stream and later at the receiving side this can be demuxed and DRC can be applied in the decoder. But this would be a propriety implementation. All I am asking is , has anyone done this with mp3 streams and if yes where can I get more info on the same. With regards Biswajit From Peter.Haighton m4if.org Fri Sep 20 12:28:48 2002 From: Peter.Haighton m4if.org (Peter Haighton) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Profile@Level Visual Image size In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bj, vop_rounding_type can be either 0 or 1 in level 0. Peter -----Original Message----- From: B Jagadeesh [mailto:bj@sasken.com] Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2023 5:23 AM To: Peter Haighton Cc: Arcin Bozkurt - Archie; technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Profile@Level Visual Image size Hi, The following mail gives very useful information regarding the features supported in MPEG-4 Simple profile@Level0. Could you please clarify one more point regarding "vop_rounding_type" for Level0? Can this variable take the values zero and 1 as in Simple profile@Level1 or Level 0 supports rounding type to be only 0. thanks and regards, bj. On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Peter Haighton wrote: > Arcin, > > Level 0 came out as part of amendment 4. I do not know if ISO has > published it yet though, I don't think so. MPEG-4 Simple Profile Level 0 > has the following restrictions: > > a) The maximum frame rate shall be 15 frames per second; > b) The maximum f_code shall be 1; > c) The intra_dc_vlc_threshold shall be 0; > d) The maximum horizontal luminance pixel resolution shall be 176 > pels/line; > e) The maximum vertical luminance pixel resolution shall be 144 pels/VOP; > f) If AC prediction is used, the following restriction applies : QP value > shall not be changed within a VOP (or within a video packet if video > packets are used in a VOP). If AC prediction is not used, there are no > restrictions to changing QP value. > > Other than Level 0, Simple Profile does not specify maximum frame size. It > does specify buffer sizes which would for example not let you do CIF in > Level 1. > > Peter > -- > Peter Haighton > VideoSpheres Inc. > 84 Hines Road > Kanata, Ontario > Canada, K2K 3G3 > Tel: (613) 270-9646 x3022 > Fax: (613) 271-9442 > email: peterh@VideoSpheres.com > > See http://www.m4if.org for the latest on MPEG-4 > > -----Original Message----- > From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Arcin Bozkurt - > Archie > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2023 9:37 AM > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Profile@Level Visual Image size > > > I may be missing something here. > I have the MPEG-4 standard, but I haven't seen any Level 0 description. > Where can I get this information? > > I was trying to understand whether the size either in x or y dimension > was restricted to any value (as in the example you gave for SP@L0) > > Peter's example mentions an image of size 352x72 which is larger than a > QCIF for SP@L1, but the max MB of 99 restriction is met. > > Arcin > > >>>>>>> > > Dear Arcin, > > you were not mentioning Simple Profile @ Level 0 which explicitly > restricts > the image size to Width <= 176 pel and Height <= 144 pel. This P@L > combination is used e.g for 3GPP mobile terminals. > > Best regards, > Andreas > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dr.-Ing. Andreas Hutter > Siemens AG, Corporate Technology > CT IC 2 phone: +49 89 636-50417 > Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 fax: +49 89 636-51115 > 81730 Munich, Germany email: Andreas.Hutter@mchp.siemens.de > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Peter Haighton wrote: > > >Hello Arcin, > > > >The typical value means that this is what most implementations would > >probably use SP@L1 for, but you can use other strange and wonderful video > >shapes if desired. For example 352x72 but I don't of an application that > >would. > > > >So basically in real world scenarios you are correct that SP@L1 would be > >used for sizes up to QCIF. > > > >Peter > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > >[mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Arcin Bozkurt - > >Archie > >Sent: Friday, August 17, 2023 8:00 AM > >To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > >Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Profile@Level Visual Image size > > > > > > > >MPEG-4 is able to handle any size image with the information taken from > >video_object_layer_width and > >video_object_layer_height. > > > > > >Does Simple Profile @L1 or L2 or L3 bring any restrictions to this? > > > >Annex N.1 (definition of Visual Profiles@Levels), specifies a "typical" > >size which is for example QCIF for Simple Profile @ L1. Does this mean > >that SP@L1 support image sized UP TO QCIF?? This is in line with the > >MAXimum 99 MB per VOP restriction of SP@L1. > > > >Can you please clarify this issue? > > > >Arcin Bozkurt > >Lumic Electronics Inc. > > > >--------------------------IMPORTANT NOTICE------------------------------ > >This message is intended only for the use of the individual > >or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information > >that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under > >applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the > >intended, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering > >the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified > >that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this > >communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > >communication in error, please notify Lumic Electronics immediately. > >Thank you. > >--------------------------IMPORTANT NOTICE------------------------------ > > > >----------------------------AVIS IMPORTANT---------------------------- > >Le pr?sent message n'est destin? qu'? la personne ou ? l'entit? > >? qui il est adress?, et peut contenir des renseignements de > >nature privil?gi?e et confidentielle qui ne doivent pas ?tre > >divulgu?s en vertu des lois applicables. Si le lecteur du pr?sent > >message n'est pas le destinataire pr?vu ou encore l'employ? > >ou le mandataire charg? de remettre ce message au destinataire > >pr?vu, vous ?tes par les pr?sentes avis? que toute diffusion, > >distribution ou reproduction de cette communication est > >strictement interdite. Si vous avez re?u cette communication par > >erreur, veuillez en aviser Lumic Electronics imm?diatement. Merci. > >---------------------------- AVIS IMPORTANT ---------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Technotes mailing list > >Technotes@lists.m4if.org > >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Technotes mailing list > >Technotes@lists.m4if.org > >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From vmorais inescporto.pt Fri Sep 20 17:38:14 2002 From: vmorais inescporto.pt (Vagner Morais) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] IM1 2D/3D Message-ID: <00d001c260fe$c9f85510$611875c2@gauss> Good afternoon: What is the last version of IM1 2D player or 3D player? Where can I get it? Thanks by your attention. *************************************************************************************************** Vagner David Pinto Morais INESC - Porto | Instituto de Engenharia de Sistemas e Computadores do Porto Unidade de Telecomunica??es e Multim?dia Grupo de An?lise e S?ntese de Imagem Email : vmorais@inescporto.pt Tel. : +351 222094233 ****************************************************************************************************** _________ http://www.inescn.pt __| \ / | Campus da FEUP ___| /\ ___/\ | Rua Dr. Roberto Frias, n? 378 ___ |/_______\| 4200-465 PORTO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ******************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020920/1b920b4f/attachment.html From alisson pontoweb.psi.br Fri Sep 20 13:09:32 2002 From: alisson pontoweb.psi.br (Alisson Brito) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Frame start bit sequence References: <20020917162824.85851.qmail@web14503.mail.yahoo.com> <3D8764D5.9090901@enst.fr> Message-ID: <004801c260b7$b99dbf80$5302a8c0@pontoweb.psi.br> Can you tell me what is the bit sequence to mark the start (or end) of a frame? []?s Alisson -----Mensagem Original----- De: Jean-Claude Dufourd Para: Dave Singer Cc: Heat Mist ; Enviada em: Ter?a-feira, 17 de Setembro de 2002 14:22 Assunto: Re: [M4IF Technotes] The content in the DecoderSpecificInfo > Dave Singer wrote: > > Yes, I think it should. Here is a dump of the first track that I found > > with MPEG-4 video in it (the first video track has JPEG in it). The > > decoder-specific-info seems to start with a VOL, whereas strictly I > > think a VOSH is needed (see next example). > > I am passing the buck to my video providers. I am not competent to > debate about this matter. > Best regards > JC > -- > Jean-Claude Dufourd @======================================@ > ENST, Dept COMELEC The wing, over the big rock... > 46, rue Barrault @======================================@ > 75013 Paris Tel: +33145817807 Fax: +33145804036 > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From kenny.chen intel.com Sun Sep 22 21:35:00 2002 From: kenny.chen intel.com (Chen, Kenny) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question on RVLC in simple profile Message-ID: <957BD1C2BF3CD411B6C500A0C944CA2601E87F09@pdsmsx32.pd.intel.com> Hi, RVLC is in MPEG4 simple profile, my question is: if my decoder claims that it supports MPEG4 simple profile, should it both support forward decoding and backward decoding for RVLC? Or only the forward decoding is enough? Ken From hwang jdl.ac.cn Mon Sep 23 10:43:20 2002 From: hwang jdl.ac.cn (WangHui) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] help for rvlc Message-ID: <006e01c262a2$98d560e0$242ae29f@WangHui> hi, Now I am engaged in Reversible Variable Length Codes, but I only find a little documents about it. I want to understand some basic concept of RVLC, could some one help me, where can I find them? Thank you very much Yours WangHui -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020923/dbe57702/attachment.html From gang.wu intel.com Mon Sep 23 11:19:27 2002 From: gang.wu intel.com (Wu, Gang) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] about RVLC Message-ID: <957BD1C2BF3CD411B6C500A0C944CA26010C3111@pdsmsx32.pd.intel.com> hi, would you please help me understand the standard clearly about RVLC, in the standard, I am confused with the strategies for determining which MB to been discarded. in standard(detail see page 422 in standard) L1 : Number of bits which can be decoded in a forward decoding. N1 : Number of MBs which can be completely decoded in a forward decoding. f_mb(S): Number of decoded MBs which S bits can be decoded in a forward direction. (Equal to or more than one bit can be decoded in a MB, f_mb(S) counter if up) what is the relationship between N1 and f_mb(L1) ? (1)N1 == f_mb(L1). (2)N1 == f_mb(L1) ro N1 == f_mb(L1) -1. (3)others. It's very important to implement the strategy. especially in strategy 3. maybe N-b_mb(L2)>=N1? am I right? thanks very much for you help. Gang From ben interframemedia.com Sun Sep 22 21:56:49 2002 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Current Part 10 Details In-Reply-To: <957BD1C2BF3CD411B6C500A0C944CA26010C3111@pdsmsx32.pd.intel.com> Message-ID: Folks, Where is the best place to get a description of the current features and status of MPEG-4 Part 10 (aka H.26L)? I don't need a full spec, but I'd like to know at least what tools are being used in which profiles. Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding My Book: http://www.benwaggoner.com/books.htm Cleaner Tutorial: http://www.saferseas.com/navseries/adclean.html Cleaner e-book: http://www.ebooktech.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=279 Compression Books: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm From garysull microsoft.com Sun Sep 22 23:39:51 2002 From: garysull microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Current Part 10 Details Message-ID: <3B8749EA44FC2748956538D4A3096E4261484F@RED-MSG-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> AVC / H.264 Profile Summary: Three profiles now: Baseline, Main, and X Baseline Profile * I and P picture types (not B) * In-loop deblocking filter * Interlace (level-dependent, levels 2.1 and above) * 1/4-sample motion compensation * Tree-structured motion segmentation down to 4x4 block size * VLC-based entropy coding * Some enhanced error resilience features - Flexible macroblock ordering/arbitrary slice ordering - Redundant slices Main Profile * All Baseline features except enhanced error resilience features * B pictures * Adaptive weighting for B and P picture prediction * CABAC * Adaptive block-size transforms * MB-level frame/field switching Profile X * All Baseline features * B pictures * Adaptive weighting for B and P picture prediction * More error resilience: Data partitioning * SP/SI switching pictures Best Regards, Gary Sullivan +> -----Original Message----- +> From: Ben Waggoner [mailto:ben@interframemedia.com] +> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2023 8:57 PM +> To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Current Part 10 Details +> +> +> Folks, +> +> Where is the best place to get a description of the +> current features and +> status of MPEG-4 Part 10 (aka H.26L)? I don't need a full +> spec, but I'd +> like to know at least what tools are being used in which profiles. +> +> +> Ben Waggoner +> Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding +> +> My Book: http://www.benwaggoner.com/books.htm +> Cleaner Tutorial: http://www.saferseas.com/navseries/adclean.html +> Cleaner e-book: +> +> http://www.ebooktech.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?+> id=279 +> +> +> Compression Books: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm +> +> +> +> _______________________________________________ +> Technotes mailing list +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes +> From garysull microsoft.com Sun Sep 22 23:56:58 2002 From: garysull microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question on RVLC in simple profile Message-ID: <3B8749EA44FC2748956538D4A3096E42614852@RED-MSG-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> As far as the standard is concerned, the decoder is only required to handle correct and error-free bitstreams. In other words, as far as conformance to the standard is concerned, you can implment only backward decoding if that's what you want to do (or only forward, or whatever you want). As long as you can decode correct and error-free bitstreams somehow, that's all you need to do. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan +> -----Original Message----- +> From: Chen, Kenny [mailto:kenny.chen@intel.com] +> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2023 5:35 AM +> To: technotes@lists.m4if.org +> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question on RVLC in simple profile +> +> +> Hi, +> RVLC is in MPEG4 simple profile, my question is: if my +> decoder claims that +> it supports MPEG4 simple profile, should it both support +> forward decoding +> and backward decoding for RVLC? Or only the forward +> decoding is enough? +> Ken +> _______________________________________________ +> Technotes mailing list +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes +> From ben interframemedia.com Sun Sep 22 23:44:32 2002 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Current Part 10 Details In-Reply-To: <3B8749EA44FC2748956538D4A3096E4261484F@RED-MSG-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: Gary, Excellent, thanks. It looks pretty much the same as what was presented at WEMP, with the addition of Profile X. Do you have Level breakdowns as well? Is there a good on-line reference for all this. Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding My Book: http://www.benwaggoner.com/books.htm Cleaner Tutorial: http://www.saferseas.com/navseries/adclean.html Cleaner e-book: http://www.ebooktech.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=279 Compression Books: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm on 9/22/02 22:39, Gary Sullivan at garysull@microsoft.com wrote: > AVC / H.264 Profile Summary: > > Three profiles now: Baseline, Main, and X > > Baseline Profile > * I and P picture types (not B) > * In-loop deblocking filter > * Interlace (level-dependent, levels 2.1 and above) > * 1/4-sample motion compensation > * Tree-structured motion segmentation down to 4x4 block size > * VLC-based entropy coding > * Some enhanced error resilience features > - Flexible macroblock ordering/arbitrary slice ordering > - Redundant slices > > Main Profile > * All Baseline features except enhanced error resilience features > * B pictures > * Adaptive weighting for B and P picture prediction > * CABAC > * Adaptive block-size transforms > * MB-level frame/field switching > > Profile X > * All Baseline features > * B pictures > * Adaptive weighting for B and P picture prediction > * More error resilience: Data partitioning > * SP/SI switching pictures From garysull microsoft.com Mon Sep 23 00:16:57 2002 From: garysull microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Current Part 10 Details Message-ID: <3B8749EA44FC2748956538D4A3096E42614854@RED-MSG-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Levels (in all profiles) are summarized with example typical format support as follows * Level 1=QCIF@15 Intermediate Levels 1.1=CIF@7.5 and 1.2=CIF@15 * Level 2=CIF@30 Intermediate Levels 2.1=HHR and 2.2 * Level 3=SDTV Intermediate Levels 3.1 and 3.2 * Level 4=HDTV * Level 5=SHDTV (1920x1088x60p) I don't think I know of any good up-to-date reference material other than the draft standard itself. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan +> -----Original Message----- +> From: Ben Waggoner [mailto:ben@interframemedia.com] +> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2023 10:45 PM +> To: Gary Sullivan; Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Current Part 10 Details +> +> +> Gary, +> +> Excellent, thanks. It looks pretty much the same as +> what was presented +> at WEMP, with the addition of Profile X. +> +> Do you have Level breakdowns as well? +> +> Is there a good on-line reference for all this. +> +> Ben Waggoner +> Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding +> +> My Book: http://www.benwaggoner.com/books.htm +> Cleaner Tutorial: http://www.saferseas.com/navseries/adclean.html +> Cleaner e-book: +> +> http://www.ebooktech.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?+> id=279 +> +> +> Compression Books: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm +> +> +> +> +> on 9/22/02 22:39, Gary Sullivan at garysull@microsoft.com wrote: +> +> > AVC / H.264 Profile Summary: +> > +> > Three profiles now: Baseline, Main, and X +> > +> > Baseline Profile +> > * I and P picture types (not B) +> > * In-loop deblocking filter +> > * Interlace (level-dependent, levels 2.1 and above) +> > * 1/4-sample motion compensation +> > * Tree-structured motion segmentation down to 4x4 block size +> > * VLC-based entropy coding +> > * Some enhanced error resilience features +> > - Flexible macroblock ordering/arbitrary slice ordering +> > - Redundant slices +> > +> > Main Profile +> > * All Baseline features except enhanced error resilience features +> > * B pictures +> > * Adaptive weighting for B and P picture prediction +> > * CABAC +> > * Adaptive block-size transforms +> > * MB-level frame/field switching +> > +> > Profile X +> > * All Baseline features +> > * B pictures +> > * Adaptive weighting for B and P picture prediction +> > * More error resilience: Data partitioning +> > * SP/SI switching pictures +> +> +> From ben interframemedia.com Mon Sep 23 00:33:30 2002 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Current Part 10 Details In-Reply-To: <3B8749EA44FC2748956538D4A3096E42614854@RED-MSG-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: on 9/22/02 23:16, Gary Sullivan at garysull@microsoft.com wrote: > Levels (in all profiles) are summarized with example typical format > support as follows > * Level 1=QCIF@15 > Intermediate Levels 1.1=CIF@7.5 and 1.2=CIF@15 > * Level 2=CIF@30 > Intermediate Levels 2.1=HHR and 2.2 > * Level 3=SDTV > Intermediate Levels 3.1 and 3.2 > * Level 4=HDTV > * Level 5=SHDTV (1920x1088x60p) Great, thanks. > I don't think I know of any good up-to-date reference material > other than the draft standard itself. Is that available to the public anywhere? Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding My Book: http://www.benwaggoner.com/books.htm Cleaner Tutorial: http://www.saferseas.com/navseries/adclean.html Cleaner e-book: http://www.ebooktech.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=279 Compression Books: http://www.benwaggoner.com/bookshelf.htm From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Mon Sep 23 10:37:04 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] IM1 2D/3D Message-ID: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC101011E6A29@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> The best forum to discuss this is : im1-sys@advent.ee.columbia.edu Use the majordom to subscribe : Majordomo@advent.ee.columbia.edu There is a CVS server with the last version of the code. cu, O. -----Message d'origine----- De : Vagner Morais [mailto:vmorais@inescporto.pt] Envoy? : samedi 21 septembre 2002 01:38 ? : MPEG4 Duvidas Objet : [M4IF Technotes] IM1 2D/3D Good afternoon: What is the last version of IM1 2D player or 3D player? Where can I get it? Thanks by your attention. *************************************************************************************************** Vagner David Pinto Morais INESC - Porto | Instituto de Engenharia de Sistemas e Computadores do Porto Unidade de Telecomunica??es e Multim?dia Grupo de An?lise e S?ntese de Imagem Email : vmorais@inescporto.pt Tel. : +351 222094233 ****************************************************************************************************** _________ http://www.inescn.pt __| \ / | Campus da FEUP ___| /\ ___/\ | Rua Dr. Roberto Frias, n? 378 ___ |/_______\| 4200-465 PORTO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ******************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020923/c5c53c31/attachment.html From gertzen irt.de Mon Sep 23 15:13:37 2002 From: gertzen irt.de (Gertzen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] ISO/IEC 14496-2 decoder with error resilience support Message-ID: <1YHDUSNOI8YTWUNJBIDFATRFCXTRN.3d8f0571@tb-3-87> Dear all, I urgently need a (public available) ISO/IEC 14496-2 decoder with full support of error resilience tools. Where can I find it? Best Regards Carsten From guraaf yahoo.co.in Tue Sep 24 16:14:10 2002 From: guraaf yahoo.co.in (Gaurav Aggarwal) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Silicon solution for SP/ASP: how to divide? Message-ID: <003701c263ae$eefc0bb0$6440840a@blr.broadcom.com> Hi all, Has anyone tried a silicon solution to SP/ASP? In particular my concerns are: 1. Direct mode motion compensation in B-VOPs, requires division to compute (TRB * MVi) / TRD. Any ideas as to how to avoid the divisor in hardware? Do you guys know typical values of TRD, i.e., distance between two I/P VOPs? Most mpeg-2 encoders used a value of 3. 2. AC/DC coefficient prediction for IDCT requires a // dc_scaler or a // QP. Any ideas about this one? Thanks for your advice! Gaurav ________________________________________________________________________ Missed your favourite TV serial last night? Try the new, Yahoo! TV. visit http://in.tv.yahoo.com From guraaf yahoo.co.in Tue Sep 24 16:14:14 2002 From: guraaf yahoo.co.in (Gaurav Aggarwal) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Ques on frequency of visual_sequence Message-ID: <003901c263ae$f174acd0$6440840a@blr.broadcom.com> Dear all, Would you know about typical frequency at which an encoder would insert the visual_sequence start code in the stream? In mpeg-2 decoders, one could safely start decoding from a sequence_header and discard any pictures before a seq_hdr comes. Or at least thats what we did (do you guys feel otherwise). Can we do the same, or should we just wait for a Visual_object or a video_object_layer? We need the aspect_ratio, frame_size and chroma_format etc. for starting our SP/ASP decoder. Thanks much! Gaurav ________________________________________________________________________ Missed your favourite TV serial last night? Try the new, Yahoo! TV. visit http://in.tv.yahoo.com From guraaf yahoo.co.in Tue Sep 24 16:14:12 2002 From: guraaf yahoo.co.in (Gaurav Aggarwal) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] configuration information for mpeg-4 Message-ID: <003801c263ae$f02c2740$6440840a@blr.broadcom.com> Hi all, The video spec ISO 14496-2 briefly talks about two alternative to receiving the configuration information along with the elementary stream. This isn't really clear to me. What is contained in this configuration information? Is the info contained in video_object_layer considered as config_info? Does config info come on the same pid or a different one? Thanks in advance, Gaurav ________________________________________________________________________ Missed your favourite TV serial last night? Try the new, Yahoo! TV. visit http://in.tv.yahoo.com From X.D.Cai sussex.ac.uk Tue Sep 24 13:35:01 2002 From: X.D.Cai sussex.ac.uk (Xiaodong Cai) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:53 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] object based coding, profiles and bandwidth limitation Message-ID: <000801c263be$6c0c59c0$8064b88b@COMMS13> Dear all : It is well known that mpeg-4 is object-based coding which supports arbitrary shape coding in its core profile. Does anybody can tell me why it is not supported in simple profile? I believe in many cases, the arbitrary shape object based coding can provide a better compression rate than rectangle shape or frame coding so that it can serve low bandwidth applications (in simple profile). So is it possible to use arbitrary shape coding technique (by video segmentation) for simple profile ? Also , are there anyone can tell me if there are bandwidth limitation designed in the standard for different profiles ? if so , why ? Many thanks . sheldon University of Sussex UK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020924/ad1fff13/attachment.html From egoam libero.it Tue Sep 24 17:30:38 2002 From: egoam libero.it (egoam@libero.it) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:53 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] =?iso-8859-1?Q?MPEG-4_Performances?= Message-ID: Hi all. I'm working on MPEG-4 and I'm interested in video encoding at low bitrates (32 Kbps, 64 Kbps). I'm using MoMuSys Video Reference codec and I made some comparisons with other not-MPEG-4 codec (qcif format, 10 fps). The result of my experiments is that at those bitrates other encoders (for example H263) provide a better visual quality than MPEG-4. Is it possible? If not, how can I work on configuration file to improve visual quality? Thanks in advance, Andrea Ambrosioni From mortenb mips.com Wed Sep 25 15:30:22 2002 From: mortenb mips.com (Morten Boysen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:53 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Round-off error in IDCT Message-ID: <3D91AC5E.7090605@mips.com> Hi, The reference decoder uses floating point in computing the IDCT. As a part of a schoolproject, i have to rewrite the IDCT, so it only uses integers. I know this will cause round-off errors, but the problem is: How large are these round-off errors allowed to be according to the standard? Furthermore, i need the maximum allowable value of an IDCT coefficient, so i can save as many bits as possible. Thanks -- -- _ _ ____ ___ Morten Boysen Mailto:mortenb@mips.com |\ /|||___)(___ MIPS Denmark Direct: +45 44 86 55 45 | \/ ||| ____) Lautrupvang 4 B Switch: +45 44 86 55 55 TECHNOLOGIES DK-2750 Ballerup Fax...: +45 44 86 55 56 Denmark http://www.mips.com/ From kevan.ahmadi powervr.com Wed Sep 25 16:40:30 2002 From: kevan.ahmadi powervr.com (Kevan Ahmadi) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:53 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Round-off error in IDCT Message-ID: <52377A0D4EFEAB4EA3577C5809EAA5A94694C7@smtp1.videologic.co.uk> The MPEG 4 and MPEG 2 standards refer to an IEEE document which lists a series of tests that can be performed on an IDCT implementation to verify it's accuracy. The implementation being tested is compared to a full precision floating point implementation and is allowed to deviate by a maximum of 2 in any case. The IEEE document is Std 1180-1990 and is titled "IEEE Standard Specification for the Implementation of 8x8 Inverse Discrete Cosine Transform". If you do get hold of that document be aware that both MPEG 2 and 4 specify changes to the wording of the tests which have the effect of relaxing the requirements. I believe the maximum input coefficient size can be represented in 12 bits (-2048 to +2047) and the output can be represented in 9 bits (-256 to +255). Good luck with your project. Kevan Ahmadi Leading Design Engineer PowerVR Technologies kevan.ahmadi@powervr.com www.powervr.com -----Original Message----- From: Morten Boysen [mailto:mortenb@mips.com] Sent: 25 September 2023 13:30 To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Round-off error in IDCT Hi, The reference decoder uses floating point in computing the IDCT. As a part of a schoolproject, i have to rewrite the IDCT, so it only uses integers. I know this will cause round-off errors, but the problem is: How large are these round-off errors allowed to be according to the standard? Furthermore, i need the maximum allowable value of an IDCT coefficient, so i can save as many bits as possible. Thanks -- -- _ _ ____ ___ Morten Boysen Mailto:mortenb@mips.com |\ /|||___)(___ MIPS Denmark Direct: +45 44 86 55 45 | \/ ||| ____) Lautrupvang 4 B Switch: +45 44 86 55 55 TECHNOLOGIES DK-2750 Ballerup Fax...: +45 44 86 55 56 Denmark http://www.mips.com/ _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From vmorais inescporto.pt Wed Sep 25 19:48:12 2002 From: vmorais inescporto.pt (Vagner Morais) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:53 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] .txt scene description Message-ID: <013301c264fe$c603be00$611875c2@gauss> I have some doubts about the description of a scene MPEG-4. Is this the best forum to do that question? If not, which is? Thanks by attention. *************************************************************************************************** Vagner David Pinto Morais INESC - Porto | Instituto de Engenharia de Sistemas e Computadores do Porto Unidade de Telecomunica??es e Multim?dia Grupo de An?lise e S?ntese de Imagem Email : vmorais@inescporto.pt Tel. : +351 222094233 ****************************************************************************************************** _________ http://www.inescn.pt __| \ / | Campus da FEUP ___| /\ ___/\ | Rua Dr. Roberto Frias, n? 378 ___ |/_______\| 4200-465 PORTO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ******************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020925/c344e9a7/attachment.html From sunx pollux.usc.edu Wed Sep 25 13:16:22 2002 From: sunx pollux.usc.edu (sunx) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:53 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Round-off error in IDCT In-Reply-To: <52377A0D4EFEAB4EA3577C5809EAA5A94694C7@smtp1.videologic.co.uk> Message-ID: MPEG-4 Part 10 also adopts the Integer DCT/IDCT. On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Kevan Ahmadi wrote: > The MPEG 4 and MPEG 2 standards refer to an IEEE document which lists a > series of tests that can be performed on an IDCT implementation to verify > it's accuracy. The implementation being tested is compared to a full > precision floating point implementation and is allowed to deviate by a > maximum of 2 in any case. > > The IEEE document is Std 1180-1990 and is titled "IEEE Standard > Specification for the Implementation of 8x8 Inverse Discrete Cosine > Transform". > > If you do get hold of that document be aware that both MPEG 2 and 4 specify > changes to the wording of the tests which have the effect of relaxing the > requirements. > > I believe the maximum input coefficient size can be represented in 12 bits > (-2048 to +2047) and the output can be represented in 9 bits (-256 to +255). > > Good luck with your project. > > Kevan Ahmadi > Leading Design Engineer > PowerVR Technologies > kevan.ahmadi@powervr.com > www.powervr.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Morten Boysen [mailto:mortenb@mips.com] > Sent: 25 September 2023 13:30 > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Round-off error in IDCT > > > Hi, > > The reference decoder uses floating point in computing the IDCT. As a > part of a schoolproject, i have to rewrite the IDCT, so it only uses > integers. I know this will cause round-off errors, but the problem is: > How large are these round-off errors allowed to be according to the > standard? > > Furthermore, i need the maximum allowable value of an IDCT coefficient, > so i can save as many bits as possible. > > Thanks > > -- > -- > _ _ ____ ___ Morten Boysen Mailto:mortenb@mips.com > |\ /|||___)(___ MIPS Denmark Direct: +45 44 86 55 45 > | \/ ||| ____) Lautrupvang 4 B Switch: +45 44 86 55 55 > TECHNOLOGIES DK-2750 Ballerup Fax...: +45 44 86 55 56 > Denmark http://www.mips.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Wed Sep 25 23:01:55 2002 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:53 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] .txt scene description Message-ID: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC101011E6CF4@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> Ask here and I will redirect if needed. -----Message d'origine----- De : Vagner Morais [mailto:vmorais@inescporto.pt] Envoy? : jeudi 26 septembre 2002 03:48 ? : MPEG4 Duvidas Objet : [M4IF Technotes] .txt scene description I have some doubts about the description of a scene MPEG-4. Is this the best forum to do that question? If not, which is? Thanks by attention. *************************************************************************************************** Vagner David Pinto Morais INESC - Porto | Instituto de Engenharia de Sistemas e Computadores do Porto Unidade de Telecomunica??es e Multim?dia Grupo de An?lise e S?ntese de Imagem Email : vmorais@inescporto.pt Tel. : +351 222094233 ****************************************************************************************************** _________ http://www.inescn.pt __| \ / | Campus da FEUP ___| /\ ___/\ | Rua Dr. Roberto Frias, n? 378 ___ |/_______\| 4200-465 PORTO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ******************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020925/22bc9015/attachment.html From Ananda.Sarangaram lntinfotech.com Wed Sep 25 16:04:45 2002 From: Ananda.Sarangaram lntinfotech.com (Ananda.Sarangaram@lntinfotech.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:53 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Reg: CELP Encoder /LPC Analysis / ACF calulation Message-ID: hi, In the MPEG-4 CELP Standard, ISO/IEC 14496-3:2001(E) acf[k] calculation uses the upper limit, "frame_size-k-1". But the refence software (v1refsoft990809) uses window_size instead of frame size. Which one is correct ? Thanks in advance Regards Anand From ralf.funken philips.com Thu Sep 26 09:21:33 2002 From: ralf.funken philips.com (ralf.funken@philips.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:53 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Reg: CELP Encoder /LPC Analysis / ACF calulation Message-ID: On 2023-09-25 11:34:45 Ananda.Sarangaram wrote: > hi, > In the MPEG-4 CELP Standard, ISO/IEC 14496-3:2001(E) acf[k] > calculation uses the upper limit, "frame_size-k-1". But the refence > software (v1refsoft990809) uses window_size instead of frame size. Which > one is correct ? > Dear Anand, Good to hear from you again. Hope you're doing fine. Regarding CELP: I believe the reference software is correct. The LPC analysis should be performed on 'window_size' samples. Regards, Ralf Funken ______________________________________________________________________ R.F.M. Funken Philips Digital Systems Laboratory Building SFJ-7.22, P.O.Box 80002, 5600 JB Eindhoven, The Netherlands Tel. +31 40 27 36246 Fax. +31 40 27 37353 E-mail address: Ralf.Funken@philips.com ______________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020926/bdaa5c27/attachment.html From i.g.richardson rgu.ac.uk Thu Sep 26 10:24:12 2002 From: i.g.richardson rgu.ac.uk (Iain Richardson (ensigr)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:53 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: Round-off error in IDCT Message-ID: <9B4C0CE0F5BE4E4F83226707BFA0D1B4C42134@EXVS001.rgu.ac.uk> You can download test software to check the accuracy of your IDCT implementation. Download ieee1180.tar.gz from http://www.mpeg.org/MPEG/MSSG/ . It's reasonably straightforward to plug your own IDCT code into this test software and check whether it passes the tests. By the way, the MPEG4 Part 10 / H.264 transform isn't an IDCT (although it is derived from a 4-point IDCT). Regards Iain Richardson www.vcodex.com iaingr@bigfoot.com Message: 1 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2023 14:30:22 +0200 From: Morten Boysen Organization: MIPS To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Round-off error in IDCT Hi, The reference decoder uses floating point in computing the IDCT. As a part of a schoolproject, i have to rewrite the IDCT, so it only uses integers. I know this will cause round-off errors, but the problem is: How large are these round-off errors allowed to be according to the standard? Furthermore, i need the maximum allowable value of an IDCT coefficient, so i can save as many bits as possible. Thanks -- -- _ _ ____ ___ Morten Boysen Mailto:mortenb@mips.com |\ /|||___)(___ MIPS Denmark Direct: +45 44 86 55 45 | \/ ||| ____) Lautrupvang 4 B Switch: +45 44 86 55 55 TECHNOLOGIES DK-2750 Ballerup Fax...: +45 44 86 55 56 Denmark http://www.mips.com/ -- From vmorais inescporto.pt Thu Sep 26 12:54:02 2002 From: vmorais inescporto.pt (Vagner Morais) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:54 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] .txt scene description Message-ID: <005701c2658e$14cb62b0$611875c2@gauss> Im trying to display arbitrary shaped video bitstreams in MPEG-4 Player (Version 0.4.6 IM1 and Momusys 2D/3D Compositor), but i can?t. Im using this description to display the video encoded by Momusys. I used this structure to display H263 and i was well sucedded. I just changed the objectTypeIndication and StreamFormat and the file name (news.263 -> news.bits) to support mpeg-4 video, but the program abbort, with a reference to this "The memory cannot be read". Anyone have any idea to resolve this problem? Thanks by your attention. { ObjectDescriptorID 4 esDescr { ES_ID 41 muxInfo { fileName news.bits streamFormat MPEG4-Video } decConfigDescr { streamType 4 // VisualStream objectTypeIndication 0x41 // MPEG4 bufferSizeDB 1000000 decSpecificInfo DecoderSpecificInfoString { info "obsolete string" } } slConfigDescr { useAccessUnitStartFlag TRUE useAccessUnitEndFlag TRUE useRandomAccessPointFlag TRUE useTimeStampsFlag TRUE timeStampResolution 1 timeStampLength 10 packetSeqNumLength 3 AU_seqNumLength 8 } } *************************************************************************************************** Vagner David Pinto Morais INESC - Porto | Instituto de Engenharia de Sistemas e Computadores do Porto Unidade de Telecomunica??es e Multim?dia Grupo de An?lise e S?ntese de Imagem Email : vmorais@inescporto.pt Tel. : +351 222094233 ****************************************************************************************************** _________ http://www.inescn.pt __| \ / | Campus da FEUP ___| /\ ___/\ | Rua Dr. Roberto Frias, n? 378 ___ |/_______\| 4200-465 PORTO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ******************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020926/78634108/attachment.html From fengduo yahoo.com Thu Sep 26 11:31:25 2002 From: fengduo yahoo.com (fengduo hu) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:54 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 CELP version 1 & 2 Message-ID: <20020926173125.41808.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com> Hi All, The syntax of CelpSpecificConfig () in ISO/IEC 14496-3:1999(E)(ver. 1) is different from that in ISO/IEC 14496-3:2000(E)(ver. 2). For the implementation of CELP decoder, is it necessary to keep the backward compatibility of ver. 1 or only use ver. 2 syntax? Thanks in advance. Regards, Fengduo Hu __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From arusha51 hotmail.com Thu Sep 26 17:49:23 2002 From: arusha51 hotmail.com (Mercy Mbise) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:54 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] yuv2avi convertion Message-ID: Is there a way of creating an avi file from yuv frames? I've tried to use the software I downloaded from http://thanglong.ece.jhu.edu/Course/643/YUVplayer.exe , but it only allows me to convert a yuv frame to avi, one frame at a time, I need to create an avi file (playable) from a number of yuv frames. MM. From xxh soft.thtf.com.cn Fri Sep 27 19:40:59 2002 From: xxh soft.thtf.com.cn (Xue Xuhong) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:54 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] A questions about Advanced Simple Profile Message-ID: <003501c26612$5e541b50$32d06fa6@xuexh> Hi, I am doing some work about Advanced Simple Profile(ASP), I know ASP is a Profile that provides the capability to distribute single-layer frame based video at a wide range of bit rates available for the distribution of video on Internet. But where can I find the syntax,semantics and the decoding process just described in [ISO/IEC 14496?2:1999/Amd.1:2000(E)]? I also have the [ISO/IEC 14496-2:1999/FDAM 4], but there is only the description of FGS. Would you like to tell me where can I find the documents about the syntax,semantics and the decoding process of ASP? Thank you. Regards, Xue Xuhong -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020927/a79fd9da/attachment.html From sps iis.fhg.de Fri Sep 27 15:02:36 2002 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:54 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 CELP version 1 & 2 References: <20020926173125.41808.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D9448DC.216C0738@iis.fhg.de> Dear Fengduo, please refer to what is stated in ISO/IEC 14496-3:2001 This replaces 14496-3:1999 and 14496-3:1999:Amd.1:2000. Best regards, Ralph fengduo hu wrote: > > Hi All, > > The syntax of CelpSpecificConfig () in ISO/IEC > 14496-3:1999(E)(ver. 1) is different from that in > ISO/IEC 14496-3:2000(E)(ver. 2). For the > implementation of CELP decoder, is it necessary to > keep the backward compatibility of ver. 1 or only use > ver. 2 syntax? Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > > Fengduo Hu > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS-A | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: sps.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 335 bytes Desc: Card for Ralph Sperschneider Url : /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020927/e6a7289e/sps.bin From ohm ient.rwth-aachen.de Fri Sep 27 15:17:37 2002 From: ohm ient.rwth-aachen.de (Jens-Rainer Ohm) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:54 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] A questions about Advanced Simple Profile In-Reply-To: <003501c26612$5e541b50$32d06fa6@xuexh> Message-ID: <001501c2661f$de053de0$01000001@OHM2> Hi, you are referring in principle to the correct documents. - 14496-2:1999/Amd.1:2000 describes the decoding process, syntax and semantics of all the tools you need. Indeed I recommend to use the second edition (14496-2:2001) instead, which also integrates corrigenda which were made meanwhile. - ISO/IEC 14496-2:1999/FDAM 4 was the final draft amendment which defines Advanced Simple Object type and Advanced Simple Profile, all on basis of tools that existed before (actually as you observed, it also contains definition of the FGS and FGST tools, but these are not part of ASP). This has been published by ISO as 14496-2:2001/Amd.2:2002 Best regards, Jens -------------------------------------------------------------------- | | | Prof. Dr.-Ing. Jens-Rainer Ohm | | | | Lehrstuhl und Institut Chair, Institute of | | fuer Nachrichtentechnik Communication Engineering | | RWTH Aachen Aachen University of Technology | | | | Mail Melatener Str. 23, D-52074 Aachen, Germany | | Tel +49-241-80-27671 | | Fax +49-241-80-22196 | | Email ohm@ient.rwth-aachen.de | | Web http://www.ient.rwth-aachen.de | | | -------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of Xue Xuhong Sent: Friday, September 27, 2023 12:41 PM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] A questions about Advanced Simple Profile Hi, I am doing some work about Advanced Simple Profile(ASP), I know ASP is a Profile that provides the capability to distribute single-layer frame based video at a wide range of bit rates available for the distribution of video on Internet. But where can I find the syntax,semantics and the decoding process just described in [ISO/IEC 14496?2:1999/Amd.1:2000(E)]? I also have the [ISO/IEC 14496-2:1999/FDAM 4], but there is only the description of FGS. Would you like to tell me where can I find the documents about the syntax,semantics and the decoding process of ASP? Thank you. Regards, Xue Xuhong -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020927/aa2bcffe/attachment.html From yangwj lucent.com Sat Sep 28 15:12:13 2002 From: yangwj lucent.com (Yang, Wei Jian (Mac)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:54 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Research areas for error resilience Message-ID: <6999EF22C12CD4119A6800508B65021F0244E1B3@CI0027EXCH001U> Dear MPEG expert: In this letter, I try to figure out my start point of research on video over wireless. It covers a large scope of field, even focus on error resilience. I will discuss it in three steps: source coding, channel coding and receiver. If you have any ideas, welcome to discuss with me. 1. Source Coding: MPEG-4 has enclosed some techniques for error resilience, i.e, Video Packet structure, Data partitioning and RVLC which are arranged in a hierarchical manner. The test environment in MPEG4 VM is BER=10e-3(random), burst error(10ms). Some papers are discussed on Rate-Control and bit-allocations when more sync. (in Packet head and HEC) and maker (between data partitioning) are included even BER is up to 10e-1. 2. Channel Coding: If the source coding resilience tool is not enough when channel has severer BER or fading, channel coding is necessary to have better visual quality. Some papers are discussed on UEP using BCH, Convolutional code, Turbo or EP using Reed-Solomon. UEP(UnEqual Protection) only gives those important bits in stream such as Sequence start, picture relative info.,etc. While EP (Equal Protection) will protect whole stream. Scalable coding (MDC & SPIHT) is another way to provide UEP to assign important bits to more reliable channel. An interesting field is to apply Reed-Solomon to UEP, Implementation speed-up may be an optimization. 3. Receiver: After source and channel coding, message will be transmitted over wireless channel to receive after live through fading, interference and noise. Some papers have discussed on RAKE in Nakagami model and MUD to see the performance improvement in real environment. An interesting field is to apply MUD to Nakagami model. Regards Yang, Wei Jian(Mac) Lucent Technologies From xxh soft.thtf.com.cn Sun Sep 29 10:42:07 2002 From: xxh soft.thtf.com.cn (Xue Xuhong) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:54 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I find the video stream sample of Advanced Simple Profile Message-ID: <003b01c26759$6bf788d0$32d06fa6@xuexh> Hi, I am now developing the decoder of Advanced Simple Profile(ASP). So it is necessary to get a ASP video stream sample file to debug the source code. Would you like to tell me where to get the ASP video stream sample file? I am so thankful for your help. Regards, xuexh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020929/b87130f8/attachment.html From xxh soft.thtf.com.cn Sun Sep 29 10:42:46 2002 From: xxh soft.thtf.com.cn (Xue Xuhong) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:55 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] About 14496-2:2001/Amd.2:2002 Message-ID: <004601c26759$831d7010$32d06fa6@xuexh> Hi, I am doing some work about Advanced Simple Profile(ASP), I know ASP is a Profile that provides the capability to distribute single-layer frame based video at a wide range of bit rates available for the distribution of video on Internet. And I heard that there is detail description about ASP in 14496-2:2001 and 14496-2:2001/Amd.2:2002. I now have 14496-2:2001, But have no 14496-2:2001/Amd.2:2002. Would you like to tell me where to get 14496-2:2001/Amd.2:2002. Thank you very much. Best Regards, Xue Xuhong -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020929/598334f5/attachment.html From gaodd soft.thtf.com.cn Sun Sep 29 11:56:37 2002 From: gaodd soft.thtf.com.cn (gaodd) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:55 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] How can i find ASP subset's description in MPEG-4? Message-ID: <017a01c26763$d71b77c0$1fd06fa6@gaodd> Now i have documents about subset of Mpeg-4, such as FGS. ASP(advanced simple profile) is also a subset of Mpeg-4. but i can't find any document about ASP, how can i find it? and who can tell me its document NO of ISO/IEC? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020929/677074d7/attachment.html From garysull microsoft.com Sat Sep 28 21:27:41 2002 From: garysull microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:55 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] How can i find ASP subset's description in MPEG-4? Message-ID: <3B8749EA44FC2748956538D4A3096E42614885@RED-MSG-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From jens.ohm t-online.de Sun Sep 29 16:50:54 2002 From: jens.ohm t-online.de (Jens-Rainer Ohm) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:55 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] About 14496-2:2001/Amd.2:2002 In-Reply-To: <004601c26759$831d7010$32d06fa6@xuexh> Message-ID: <000001c267bf$3c3a66b0$72989b3e@OHM2> Hi, 14496-2:2001/Amd.2:2002 is the number under which this amendment was published. This one you can only purchase from ISO. The last MPEG internal version was N3904. Best regards, Jens -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of Xue Xuhong Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2023 3:43 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] About 14496-2:2001/Amd.2:2002 Hi, I am doing some work about Advanced Simple Profile(ASP), I know ASP is a Profile that provides the capability to distribute single-layer frame based video at a wide range of bit rates available for the distribution of video on Internet. And I heard that there is detail description about ASP in 14496-2:2001 and 14496-2:2001/Amd.2:2002. I now have 14496-2:2001, But have no 14496-2:2001/Amd.2:2002. Would you like to tell me where to get 14496-2:2001/Amd.2:2002. Thank you very much. Best Regards, Xue Xuhong -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020929/63d0661f/attachment.html From jens.ohm t-online.de Sun Sep 29 16:50:54 2002 From: jens.ohm t-online.de (Jens-Rainer Ohm) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:55 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I find the video stream sample of Advanced Simple Profile In-Reply-To: <003b01c26759$6bf788d0$32d06fa6@xuexh> Message-ID: <000501c267bf$3dc94410$72989b3e@OHM2> Hi, the conformance amendment related to Studio Profiles, Simple Profile Level 0, Advanced Simple and FGS Profiles was finalized by the July meeting (N5083). The associated streams are presently accessible to MPEG members from ftp.tnt.uni-hannover.de, same login as for MPEG web site. Publication by ISO is under preparation. Best regards, Jens -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of Xue Xuhong Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2023 3:42 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I find the video stream sample of Advanced Simple Profile Hi, I am now developing the decoder of Advanced Simple Profile(ASP). So it is necessary to get a ASP video stream sample file to debug the source code. Would you like to tell me where to get the ASP video stream sample file? I am so thankful for your help. Regards, xuexh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020929/87b7d5b6/attachment.html From Max.Griessl dynapel.de Mon Sep 30 10:37:26 2002 From: Max.Griessl dynapel.de (Max Griessl) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:55 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] yuv2avi convertion References: Message-ID: <3D97FF36.1020201@dynapel.de> Just join all frames into one file and try again. Max Mercy Mbise wrote: > Is there a way of creating an avi file from yuv frames? I've tried to use > the software I downloaded from > http://thanglong.ece.jhu.edu/Course/643/YUVplayer.exe , but it only allows > me to convert a yuv frame to avi, one frame at a time, I need to create an > avi file (playable) from a number of yuv frames. > > MM. > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -- Max Griessl DynaPel Laboratories GmbH Software Design Fraunhoferstr. 9/2 Tel: +49 (0) 89 96242812 D-85737 Ismaning, Germany Fax: +49 (0) 89 96242890 http://www.dynapel.de From vmorais inescporto.pt Mon Sep 30 12:31:48 2002 From: vmorais inescporto.pt (Vagner Morais) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:55 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Object encoder Message-ID: <00bd01c268af$a3359b00$611875c2@gauss> Im reading the article "MPEG-4: A Multimedia Standard for the Third Millennium, Part 2" (http://www.computer.org/multimedia/articles/MPEG4_part2.htm), and i would like to know which is the version of player IM1 - 2D that i can use to make a render like the figure 4, in that article. I wonder if you can help me. Thanks by your attention. Vagner Morais *************************************************************************************************** Vagner David Pinto Morais INESC - Porto | Instituto de Engenharia de Sistemas e Computadores do Porto Unidade de Telecomunica??es e Multim?dia Grupo de An?lise e S?ntese de Imagem Email : vmorais@inescporto.pt Tel. : +351 222094233 ****************************************************************************************************** _________ http://www.inescn.pt __| \ / | Campus da FEUP ___| /\ ___/\ | Rua Dr. Roberto Frias, n? 378 ___ |/_______\| 4200-465 PORTO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ******************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020930/a89ddbb7/attachment.html From rkoenen intertrust.com Mon Sep 30 12:07:01 2002 From: rkoenen intertrust.com (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:56 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Object encoder Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D5901324BA2@exchange.epr.com> stefano battista [bautz@bsoft.info] should be able to answer that question. Rob -----Original Message----- From: Vagner Morais [mailto:vmorais@inescporto.pt] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2023 11:32 To: MPEG4 Duvidas Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Object encoder Im reading the article "MPEG-4: A Multimedia Standard for the Third Millennium, Part 2" (http://www.computer.org/multimedia/articles/MPEG4_part2.htm ), and i would like to know which is the version of player IM1 - 2D that i can use to make a render like the figure 4, in that article. I wonder if you can help me. Thanks by your attention. Vagner Morais **************************************************************************** *********************** Vagner David Pinto Morais INESC - Porto | Instituto de Engenharia de Sistemas e Computadores do Porto Unidade de Telecomunica??es e Multim?dia Grupo de An?lise e S?ntese de Imagem Email : vmorais@inescporto.pt Tel. : +351 222094233 **************************************************************************** ************************** _________ http://www.inescn.pt __| \ / | Campus da FEUP ___| /\ ___/\ | Rua Dr. Roberto Frias, n? 378 ___ |/_______\| 4200-465 PORTO ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- **************************************************************************** **** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20020930/b14b9399/attachment.html From robert streamcrest.com Mon Sep 30 12:46:15 2002 From: robert streamcrest.com (Robert Bleidt, Streamcrest Associates) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:08:56 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] yuv2avi convertion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20020930114003.03253500@pop.hdtv.com> If you are working at D1 resolution, there is a conversion utility at www.streamcrest.com (click on the MPEG-4 information button) that should work. At 04:49 PM 9/26/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Is there a way of creating an avi file from yuv frames? I've tried to use >the software I downloaded from >http://thanglong.ece.jhu.edu/Course/643/YUVplayer.exe , but it only allows >me to convert a yuv frame to avi, one frame at a time, I need to create an >avi file (playable) from a number of yuv frames. > >MM. >_______________________________________________ >Technotes mailing list >Technotes@lists.m4if.org >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes ____________________________________________________________ Robert Bleidt Streamcrest Associates +1 408-981-0822 Mobile +1 408-327-2245 Office robert@streamcrest.com www.streamcrest.com