From Ariel.David ParthusCeva.com Mon Feb 3 11:59:48 2003 From: Ariel.David ParthusCeva.com (Ariel David) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:38 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] mp4 simple profile video streams & source code and player Message-ID: <988BE481ACC95C429DCB909F74A3163A34BD1F@exchange-il> Hi, I am looking for simple profile video streams and source code. Where can I find this? I looked in the m4if site and found some links that lead me to cmp and bits files. Are these mp4 simple profile video files or are they something completely different. Further more, I am looking for working mpeg-4 simple profile video source code for Visual Studio on Windows platform. I looked at the momusys source code and couldn't find the begining or the end. Does anyone know of open, working and readable source code for Visual Studio? I am also looking for a good mp4 file player. I have the Philips Platform4, Windows Media Player, QuckTime with the Envivio plug-in and Mpegable. First, none seem to play eachother's files. I don't know if they all play standard files since I don't have any at the moment. The biggest problem is that none give information about the stream. What is the best and most robust mp4 file player? Thanks, Ariel P.S thanks to eveyone who replied to the previous question about packet_header. It was a big help. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030203/e04c5df2/attachment.html From guraaf yahoo.co.in Mon Feb 3 17:30:01 2003 From: guraaf yahoo.co.in (Gaurav Aggarwal) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:39 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Frame dropping policies In-Reply-To: <008401c2c879$abb06f60$c001a8c0@pel.eeng.dcu.ie> Message-ID: <00bb01c2cb7b$c7b8d3f0$7810840a@blr.broadcom.com> I am not very knowledgeable or experienced but I was wondering if you considered dropping from Display rather than Decode? Because if you decide to drop a frame from decode then definitely it wont be that uniform since you will be forced to drop B-pictures at first and then P-pictures. Also, in cases where the dropping rate is not a multiple of the GOV rate you may a problem. How about simply dropping every 15th picture from display for 28fps in which case some I or P can also get dropped. The effect will be more gradual rather than proper display for 28 frames and then suddenly 2 B-frames are missing! Just a thought, Gaurav -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Nikki Cranley Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2024 9:37 PM To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Frame dropping policies Hi, I was just wondering if there is a frame dropping policy. If I have a VOP sequence with 30fps: I PBB PBB PBB I PBB PBB PBB I PBB PBB PBB GOV = I PBB PBB PBB And I want to reduce the frame rate to say 28fps. Is there any frame dropping policy in place - such as 2GOVs + I PBB PBB P i.e. dropping the B frames first. Then if I drop the frame rate to 27 fps Should I have 2GOVs + I PBB PBB or 2GOVs + I PBB PB P Is this application specific - are there any recommendations for such strategies? Rgds, Nikki -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030203/22e4ef17/attachment.html From larkind eeng.dcu.ie Mon Feb 3 13:39:35 2003 From: larkind eeng.dcu.ie (Daniel Larkin) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:39 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] max obj in SP In-Reply-To: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59016BEEA7@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: Does this then mean that a compliant SP@L1-3 MPEG4 decoder must include a binary shape (CAE based) decoding subsystem? Based on the previous reply I assume it must if it can deal with up to four objects. Regards Daniel -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Rob Koenen Sent: 31 January 2024 22:30 To: 'Gary Sullivan'; rob.koenen@m4if.org; Yong wang; Technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] max obj in SP Right. In Simple, we kept it simple. The typical max num MBs was chosen such that it could exactly fill the typical session size. In most other Profiles/Level combinations, you can fill it twice. Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Sullivan [mailto:garysull@microsoft.com] > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2024 2:19 PM > To: rob.koenen@m4if.org; Yong wang; Technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] max obj in SP > > > Right idea. But actually I think the maximum total MBs is > given by the max vcv buffer size column in Table N-1, not the > typcial session size column (one is just information about > what is expected to be typical and the other is the maximum allowed). > > For example, in Simple profile level 1, you can send 4 > "simple visual objects" (i.e., 4 rectangular video streams) - > each of which is 5 macroblocks wide and 4 macroblocks tall. > The total would then be 80 macroblocks, which fits within the > 99 macroblock maximum. > > In Simple profile, the "max" and "typical" sizes are the > same. But in some others they are not. For example in Core > profile levels 1 and 2. > > -Gary > > +> -----Original Message----- > +> From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rob.koenen@m4if.org] > +> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2024 11:09 AM > +> To: 'Yong wang'; Technotes@lists.m4if.org > +> Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] max obj in SP > +> > +> > +> You can have 4 smaller objects, the total surface of which > would be > +> that of the 'typical session size' at max. > +> > +> You can use that on PCs or on devices where there is a > picture in the > +> background > +> > +> > But, since it treats the whole > +> > frame as one object, there is only one object > +> > available. > +> > +> I don't understand what you mean by this. > +> > +> Rob > +> > +> > -----Original Message----- > +> > From: Yong wang [mailto:yongwang_2001@yahoo.com] > +> > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2024 11:03 AM > +> > To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org > +> > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] max obj in SP > +> > > +> > > +> > Dear erperts, > +> > > +> > I noticed that the Max. # objects allowed in MPEG4 > +> > visual SP@L1-3 is 4. But, since it treats the whole > +> > frame as one object, there is only one object > +> > available. How could Max. # objects be 4? Could > +> > anybody knidly answer my question? Thnaks a lot! > +> > > +> > Yong > +> > > +> > __________________________________________________ > +> > Do you Yahoo!? > +> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > +> http://mailplus.yahoo.com > +> _______________________________________________ > +> Technotes mailing list > +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org > +> +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > +> > +> > +> > +> _______________________________________________ > +> Technotes mailing list > +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org > +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > +> > _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From rob.koenen m4if.org Mon Feb 3 08:03:56 2003 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:39 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] max obj in SP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59016BEEC2@exchange.epr.com> > Does this then mean that a compliant SP@L1-3 MPEG4 decoder > must include a binary shape (CAE based) decoding subsystem? No it doesn't. The objects must be rectangular. Best, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Larkin [mailto:larkind@eeng.dcu.ie] > Sent: Monday, February 03, 2024 5:40 AM > To: rob.koenen@m4if.org; 'Gary Sullivan'; Yong wang; > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] max obj in SP > > > Does this then mean that a compliant SP@L1-3 MPEG4 decoder > must include a binary shape (CAE based) decoding subsystem? > Based on the previous reply I assume it must if it can deal > with up to four objects. > > Regards > Daniel > > -----Original Message----- > From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Rob Koenen > Sent: 31 January 2024 22:30 > To: 'Gary Sullivan'; rob.koenen@m4if.org; Yong wang; > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] max obj in SP > > > Right. In Simple, we kept it simple. The typical max num MBs > was chosen such that it could exactly fill the typical session size. > > In most other Profiles/Level combinations, you can fill it twice. > > > Rob > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gary Sullivan [mailto:garysull@microsoft.com] > > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2024 2:19 PM > > To: rob.koenen@m4if.org; Yong wang; Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] max obj in SP > > > > > > Right idea. But actually I think the maximum total MBs is > > given by the max vcv buffer size column in Table N-1, not the > > typcial session size column (one is just information about > > what is expected to be typical and the other is the maximum > allowed). > > > > For example, in Simple profile level 1, you can send 4 > > "simple visual objects" (i.e., 4 rectangular video streams) - > > each of which is 5 macroblocks wide and 4 macroblocks tall. > > The total would then be 80 macroblocks, which fits within the > > 99 macroblock maximum. > > > > In Simple profile, the "max" and "typical" sizes are the > > same. But in some others they are not. For example in Core > > profile levels 1 and 2. > > > > -Gary > > > > +> -----Original Message----- > > +> From: Rob Koenen [mailto:rob.koenen@m4if.org] > > +> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2024 11:09 AM > > +> To: 'Yong wang'; Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > +> Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] max obj in SP > > +> > > +> > > +> You can have 4 smaller objects, the total surface of which > > would be > > +> that of the 'typical session size' at max. > > +> > > +> You can use that on PCs or on devices where there is a > > picture in the > > +> background > > +> > > +> > But, since it treats the whole > > +> > frame as one object, there is only one object > > +> > available. > > +> > > +> I don't understand what you mean by this. > > +> > > +> Rob > > +> > > +> > -----Original Message----- > > +> > From: Yong wang [mailto:yongwang_2001@yahoo.com] > > +> > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2024 11:03 AM > > +> > To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > +> > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] max obj in SP > > +> > > > +> > > > +> > Dear erperts, > > +> > > > +> > I noticed that the Max. # objects allowed in MPEG4 visual > > +> > SP@L1-3 is 4. But, since it treats the whole frame as > one object, > > +> > there is only one object available. How could Max. # > objects be > > +> > 4? Could anybody knidly answer my question? Thnaks a lot! > > +> > > > +> > Yong > > +> > > > +> > __________________________________________________ > > +> > Do you Yahoo!? > > +> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > > +> http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > +> _______________________________________________ > > +> Technotes mailing list > > +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > +> +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > +> > > +> > > +> > > +> _______________________________________________ > > +> Technotes mailing list > > +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > +> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technot> es > From biswas tataelxsi.co.in Tue Feb 4 09:06:00 2003 From: biswas tataelxsi.co.in (Biswajit Biswas) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:39 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Nancy video codec References: <999F6F1E8EB8D311AC190090277A77260F49EF32@axcs08.cos.agilent.com> Message-ID: <3E3F3520.55D5F008@tataelxsi.co.in> Hi All, Nancy codec is based on a proprietary algorithm called Structured Meta Scale Polygon, which divides images into blocks of various shapes and sizes for compression. The current version uses square blocks ranging from 1 x 1 to 32 x 32 pixels to divide an image, depending on its complexity. Nancy uses only the four fundamental processes of arithmetic (addition, subtraction, multiplication and division), along with comparison and bit-shift operation. QCIF compression/decompression at 30fps consumes around 50 MIPS when using Nancy codec Regards Biswajit Biswas ramakrishna_kakarala@agilent.com wrote: > > Hi, > > Does anyone know how the Nancy > video codec from Office Noa compare > with MPEG-4, Simple Profile? Nancy > is supposed to be efficient in computation, > and has apparently made it into the J-Phone and > Sharp Zaurus. I'm curious how it compares > to MPEG4 in coding efficiency. > > Thanks > Ram > > --------------------------------- > Ramakrishna Kakarala > Agilent Technologies > 3175 Bowers Avenue MS 87H > Santa Clara CA 95054 > ramakrishna_kakarala@agilent.com > (408) 970-2467 > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From liron zoran.co.il Tue Feb 4 11:53:49 2003 From: liron zoran.co.il (Liron Ain-Kedem) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:39 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Direct Mode & Qpel interpolation Message-ID: Hi, It says in section "7.6.9.5.3 Generation of prediction blocks" (for Direct Mode) that: "Motion compensation for luminance is performed individually on 8x8 blocks to generate a macroblock." But I found no evidence of that in the reference code - on the contrary - Motion Compensation is done on a complete MB (even in quarter_sample mode) and NOT on 8x8 blocks. Can anyone help? What should be done - MC on 4x 8x8 blocks or on a whole MB - 16x16? Thanks, Liron From jimbowen56 hotmail.com Tue Feb 4 12:02:00 2003 From: jimbowen56 hotmail.com (Jim Bowen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:39 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 3D BIFS example Message-ID: Hello all, Does anyone have a sample of a BIFS/MP4 file that uses 3D nodes (e.g. Sphere, or cylinder) that will play in the Osmose player. I have tried using the mp4tool to create such files, and don`t get any errors, but when I try to play them (in osmose or envivio) I just get a blank screen. Below is a file that I tried to use to create a 3D - box, Thanks in advance, Jim -------------------- Group { children [ Shape { appearance Appearance { material Material { } } geometry Box { size 0.01 0.01 0.01 } } ] } InitialObjectDescriptor { objectDescriptorID 1 ODProfileLevelIndication 1 sceneProfileLevelIndication 1 audioProfileLevelIndication 1 visualProfileLevelIndication 1 graphicsProfileLevelIndication 1 esDescr [ { ES_ID 2 muxInfo { fileName small-view.bif streamFormat BIFS GroupID 2 } decConfigDescr { streamType 3 ## BIFS bufferSizeDB 5000 decSpecificInfo BIFSConfig { nodeIDbits 10 routeIDbits 10 isCommandStream TRUE pixelMetric TRUE pixelWidth 600 pixelHeight 400 } } slConfigDescr { timeStampResolution 1000 } } ] } _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From kinanea eeng.dcu.ie Tue Feb 4 12:18:14 2003 From: kinanea eeng.dcu.ie (Andrew Kinane) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:39 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] SA-DCT Message-ID: <002c01c2cc47$7e5ec6c0$2e650a0a@andrewk> Hello, When computing the SA-DCT of an 8x8 block, each row of object pixels are shifted horizontally and aligned to the left based on the alpha plane information. Each row is then transformed with an N-point DCT depending on the length of the row. This process is repeated vertically on the resultant data. I know it doesnt matter if the horizontal or vertical transform comes first, and I undestand the general idea no problem. But what happens if the alpha block looks like the following ('1' = part of object, '0' = outside object) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 // the important row! 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 After shifting left, are we left with: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 // What transform here? 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 // 5-point DCT 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 // 5-point DCT 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 // 4-point DCT 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 // 4-point DCT 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 // 5-point DCT 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 What happens with the second row? Are there two transforms performed - a 1-point (albeit trivial) and a 2-point? Are there any other complications involved with the SA-DCT? Regards, Andrew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030204/82a4d073/attachment.html From marten.thielges student.uni-tuebingen.de Tue Feb 4 13:46:55 2003 From: marten.thielges student.uni-tuebingen.de (mart) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 3D BIFS example In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Jim, The Osmose player is built upon the IM1 2D Player from the MPEG-4 Systems Reference Implementation. This means it supports only 2D BIFS Nodes. Envivio TV surely doesn't support 3D Nodes either. You can though grab the Systems Reference source from http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/ISO_IEC_14496- 5_2001_Software_Reference/systems.zip and compile it yourself. I have done this and it actually works rather well for testing purposes, although I didn't manage to get any scenes with audio (neither g723 or AAC) running, which should actually be supported. (If anyone can help, I'd greatly appreciate it) One more hint: If you are using the 3D Player from the Reference Software with mp4tool from ENST for converting .bt files to .mp4, you have to use the "-preCOR1out" option, as opposed to the newer (2D-) Osmose Player, where you don't use it. Hope this helps... Greets from Tuebingen, Germany Marten Thielges Am Dienstag, 04.02.03, um 13:02 Uhr (Europe/Berlin) schrieb Jim Bowen: > Does anyone have a sample of a BIFS/MP4 file that uses 3D nodes (e.g. > Sphere, or cylinder) that will play in the Osmose player. > I have tried using the mp4tool to create such files, and don`t get any > errors, but when I try to play them (in osmose or envivio) I just get > a blank screen. > > Below is a file that I tried to use to create a 3D - box, > > Thanks in advance, > Jim > > -------------------- > > Group { > children [ > Shape { > appearance Appearance { > material Material { > } > } > geometry Box { > size 0.01 0.01 0.01 > } > } > ] > } > InitialObjectDescriptor > { > objectDescriptorID 1 > ODProfileLevelIndication 1 > sceneProfileLevelIndication 1 > audioProfileLevelIndication 1 > visualProfileLevelIndication 1 > graphicsProfileLevelIndication 1 > esDescr [ > { > ES_ID 2 > muxInfo { > fileName small-view.bif > streamFormat BIFS > GroupID 2 > } > decConfigDescr { > streamType 3 ## BIFS > bufferSizeDB 5000 > decSpecificInfo BIFSConfig { > nodeIDbits 10 > routeIDbits 10 > isCommandStream TRUE > pixelMetric TRUE > pixelWidth 600 > pixelHeight 400 > } > } > slConfigDescr { > timeStampResolution 1000 > } > } > ] > } > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From miro_anna yahoo.fr Tue Feb 4 17:55:46 2003 From: miro_anna yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?anna?=) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] benchmark of open source MOMUSYS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030204165546.93756.qmail@web21502.mail.yahoo.com> Hello I would to know the benchmark of open source of microsoft and MoMusys for coding video sequnce. If a person have in information please help me thank you anna --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en fran?ais ! Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030204/9f7f73af/attachment.html From Jean-Claude.Dufourd enst.fr Wed Feb 5 10:12:59 2003 From: Jean-Claude.Dufourd enst.fr (Jean-Claude Dufourd) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 3D BIFS example References: Message-ID: <3E40D59B.60904@enst.fr> Jim Bowen wrote: > Does anyone have a sample of a BIFS/MP4 file that uses 3D nodes (e.g. > Sphere, or cylinder) that will play in the Osmose player. > I have tried using the mp4tool to create such files, and don`t get any > errors, but when I try to play them (in osmose or envivio) I just get a > blank screen. Yes, that is quite normal. EnvivioTV implements Advanced2D and Osmose Complete2D, and neither of these includes 3D nodes. The two players accepting 3D that I know are the SoNG player and the Octaga player. The SoNG player should be available through Bitmanagement. Best regards JC -- Jean-Claude Dufourd @======================================@ ENST, Dept COMELEC The wing, over the big rock... 46, rue Barrault @======================================@ 75013 Paris Tel: +33145817807 Fax: +33145804036 From sunkang_99 yahoo.com Wed Feb 5 07:48:41 2003 From: sunkang_99 yahoo.com (kang sun) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] my email adress Message-ID: <20030205154841.73412.qmail@web20501.mail.yahoo.com> sunkang_99@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From garysull microsoft.com Wed Feb 5 17:21:54 2003 From: garysull microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question about Quarter-pel Motion Compensation Message-ID: <3B8749EA44FC2748956538D4A3096E42E09087@RED-MSG-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> I think in the case of quarter-pel, that entry would be interpreted as -32 in quarter-sample units (-8 in full-sample units). -Gary +> -----Original Message----- +> From: Xue Xuhong [mailto:xxh@soft.thtf.com.cn] +> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2024 6:30 PM +> To: technotes@lists.m4if.org +> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question about Quarter-pel Motion +> Compensation +> +> +> Hi, +> +> In the VLC table for MVD( Table B-12, in the standard) , it +> seems that the +> "-16", "-15.5"... are in the unit of pel. +> which is showed below: +> +> Code MVD +> 0000 0000 0010 1 -16 +> 0000 0000 0011 1 -15.5 +> 0000 0000 0101 -15 +> ... +> +> When the Quarter-pel Motion Compensation is used, if the codes in the +> bitstram is 0000 0000 00101, should we get the MVD as +> "-16" in pel unit, then transform it to -16*4=64 in 1/4 pel unit? +> +> +> Regards, +> Xue Xuhong +> +> _______________________________________________ +> Technotes mailing list +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes +> From Lefan mediaq.com Wed Feb 5 17:44:09 2003 From: Lefan mediaq.com (Lefan Zhong) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Some puzzles about stuffing macroblock at end of VOP Message-ID: Hi folks, I have some questions about stuffing macroblocks in the end of VOP. The official document (14496-2, 2001) and the reference softwares conflict at the issue. I would like to share my opinions here. I would like to hear your comments too. 1) It is legal to insert some stuffing macroblocks after the last non-stuffing macroblock in the VOP if the data bitstream is not data partition format and not short video header. Since in the document section 6.2.5.3, the function combined_motion_shape_texture( ) uses do...while loop to keep checking until resyn_marker of start_new_VOP. But Momusys reference software doesn't skip the stuffing and go to next VOP. 2) If the bitstream is short video header, it is illegal to insert the stuffing macroblocks after the last non-stuffing macroblock in VOP. Since in the document section 6.2.5.2, the function gob_layer( ) use for loop for macroblock decoding. After the last non-stuffing macroblock is decoded, the decoder should go out of the loop and shouldn't checking any stuffing macroblock. But Microsoft reference software processes further skipping for the stuffing macroblocks. 3) If the bitstream is data partitioned, it is illegal to insert the stuffing macroblocks after the last non-stuffing macroblock in VOP. Since in the document section 6.2.5.3, function data_partitioned_i_vop() and data_partitioned_p_vop( ), the stuffing macroblocks should be in mcbpc, and should not at the end of packet. But both Momusys and Microsoft reference software check the stuffing macroblocks and skip them. Maybe there is some amendment on this issue but I don't know yet. Thank you for your time. --Lefan From garysull microsoft.com Wed Feb 5 18:28:09 2003 From: garysull microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Some puzzles about stuffing macroblock at end of VOP Message-ID: <3B8749EA44FC2748956538D4A3096E42E09088@RED-MSG-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> +> -----Original Message----- +> From: Lefan Zhong [mailto:Lefan@mediaq.com] +> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2024 5:44 PM +> To: technotes@lists.m4if.org +> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Some puzzles about stuffing +> macroblock at end of VOP +> +> +> Hi folks, +> +> I have some questions about stuffing macroblocks in the end +> of VOP. The official document (14496-2, 2001) and the +> reference softwares conflict at the issue. I would like to +> share my opinions here. I would like to hear your comments too. I don't know to what extent this issue was actually really considered in the drafting of the standard, but your analysis looks reasonable. If I were writing a decoder, I would allow for the stuffing to be there. If I were writing an encoder, I would try to avoid using it, as I would be afraid some decoders would not be built to allow it. I do remember the topic coming up before. I don't remember whether there was this much information provided analyzing the spec and reference software when the subject came up, and I don't remember whether MPEG decided to do anything to alter the document or the software. +> +> 1) It is legal to insert some stuffing macroblocks after the +> last non-stuffing macroblock in the VOP if the data +> bitstream is not data partition format and not short video +> header. Since in the document section 6.2.5.3, the function +> combined_motion_shape_texture( ) uses do...while loop to +> keep checking until resyn_marker of start_new_VOP. But +> Momusys reference software doesn't skip the stuffing and go +> to next VOP. So it sounds like there is a bug in that software or a problem in the document. This is a case where the document and software appear to conflict. Both are "normative", so it is up to the MPEG committee to decide which is right. +> +> 2) If the bitstream is short video header, it is illegal to +> insert the stuffing macroblocks after the last non-stuffing +> macroblock in VOP. Since in the document section 6.2.5.2, +> the function gob_layer( ) use for loop for macroblock +> decoding. After the last non-stuffing macroblock is decoded, +> the decoder should go out of the loop and shouldn't checking +> any stuffing macroblock. But Microsoft reference software +> processes further skipping for the stuffing macroblocks. The fact that the Microsoft reference software skips over it does not necessarily mean anything in terms of whether it is allowed or not. We would only consider something in the decoding software to be a bug if the decoder did not respond correctly to a conforming bitstream. Here you're talking about something else - how the decoder responds to what appears to be a non-conforming bitstream. +> +> 3) If the bitstream is data partitioned, it is illegal to +> insert the stuffing macroblocks after the last non-stuffing +> macroblock in VOP. Since in the document section 6.2.5.3, +> function data_partitioned_i_vop() and +> data_partitioned_p_vop( ), the stuffing macroblocks should +> be in mcbpc, and should not at the end of packet. But both +> Momusys and Microsoft reference software check the stuffing +> macroblocks and skip them. Interesting. Again, since there is no requirement for what the decoder should do when given a non-conforming bitstream, the status quo may be OK in this case. +> +> Maybe there is some amendment on this issue but I don't know yet. +> +> Thank you for your time. +> +> --Lefan +> _______________________________________________ +> Technotes mailing list +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes +> From dsearles mmc.atmel.com Thu Feb 6 09:07:49 2003 From: dsearles mmc.atmel.com (dsearles) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Some puzzles about stuffing macroblock at end of VOP References: <3B8749EA44FC2748956538D4A3096E42E09088@RED-MSG-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <3E426C35.50004@mmc.atmel.com> There are some posts related to this area from me on 10/15 and 10/18. Dan Searles Gary Sullivan wrote: >+> -----Original Message----- >+> From: Lefan Zhong [mailto:Lefan@mediaq.com] >+> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2024 5:44 PM >+> To: technotes@lists.m4if.org >+> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Some puzzles about stuffing >+> macroblock at end of VOP >+> >+> >+> Hi folks, >+> >+> I have some questions about stuffing macroblocks in the end >+> of VOP. The official document (14496-2, 2001) and the >+> reference softwares conflict at the issue. I would like to >+> share my opinions here. I would like to hear your comments too. > > >I don't know to what extent this issue was actually really considered >in the drafting of the standard, but your analysis looks reasonable. >If I were writing a decoder, I would allow for the stuffing >to be there. If I were writing an encoder, I would try to avoid using >it, as I would be afraid some decoders would not be built to allow it. > >I do remember the topic coming up before. I don't remember whether >there was this much information provided analyzing the spec and >reference software when the subject came up, and I don't remember >whether MPEG decided to do anything to alter the document or the >software. > >+> >+> 1) It is legal to insert some stuffing macroblocks after the >+> last non-stuffing macroblock in the VOP if the data >+> bitstream is not data partition format and not short video >+> header. Since in the document section 6.2.5.3, the function >+> combined_motion_shape_texture( ) uses do...while loop to >+> keep checking until resyn_marker of start_new_VOP. But >+> Momusys reference software doesn't skip the stuffing and go >+> to next VOP. > >So it sounds like there is a bug in that software or a >problem in the document. This is a case where the document >and software appear to conflict. Both are "normative", so >it is up to the MPEG committee to decide which is right. > > >+> >+> 2) If the bitstream is short video header, it is illegal to >+> insert the stuffing macroblocks after the last non-stuffing >+> macroblock in VOP. Since in the document section 6.2.5.2, >+> the function gob_layer( ) use for loop for macroblock >+> decoding. After the last non-stuffing macroblock is decoded, >+> the decoder should go out of the loop and shouldn't checking >+> any stuffing macroblock. But Microsoft reference software >+> processes further skipping for the stuffing macroblocks. > > >The fact that the Microsoft reference software skips over it >does not necessarily mean anything in terms of whether it is >allowed or not. We would only consider something in the >decoding software to be a bug if the decoder did not respond >correctly to a conforming bitstream. Here you're talking >about something else - how the decoder responds to what appears >to be a non-conforming bitstream. > >+> >+> 3) If the bitstream is data partitioned, it is illegal to >+> insert the stuffing macroblocks after the last non-stuffing >+> macroblock in VOP. Since in the document section 6.2.5.3, >+> function data_partitioned_i_vop() and >+> data_partitioned_p_vop( ), the stuffing macroblocks should >+> be in mcbpc, and should not at the end of packet. But both >+> Momusys and Microsoft reference software check the stuffing >+> macroblocks and skip them. > >Interesting. Again, since there is no requirement for what >the decoder should do when given a non-conforming bitstream, >the status quo may be OK in this case. > >+> >+> Maybe there is some amendment on this issue but I don't know yet. >+> >+> Thank you for your time. >+> >+> --Lefan >+> _______________________________________________ >+> Technotes mailing list >+> Technotes@lists.m4if.org >+> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes >+> >_______________________________________________ >Technotes mailing list >Technotes@lists.m4if.org >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > > > -- Dan Searles Atmel Multimedia & Communications 3800 Gateway Centre, Suite 311 Morrisville, NC 27560 phone: (919)462-6553 fax: (919)462-0300 From jimbowen56 hotmail.com Thu Feb 6 16:55:29 2003 From: jimbowen56 hotmail.com (Jim Bowen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] nhnt file Message-ID: Hi all, Thanks to everyone who answered my last question, very helpful. I was wondering if anyone had an NHNT file and its associated mp3 file?? I am trying to write a program to generate the nhnt file from an mp3 stream, and would like to see the exact values that the .nhnt file has with regard to the mp3 file. I understand the kangarooo and karate sequence on ENST use mp3 files as the audio source, perhaps someone has the origional .nhnt and .mp3 files of these?? I assume that an audio file does not need a .info file, is this correct? Also something thats been bugging me, is an nhnt file part of the standard?? or is it just something that needs to be there to use the mp4tool?? It sounds like a hint track, but is there a strict definition of how hint tracks should be composed?? Thanks in advance, jim _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From Jean-Claude.Dufourd enst.fr Thu Feb 6 18:48:06 2003 From: Jean-Claude.Dufourd enst.fr (Jean-Claude Dufourd) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] nhnt file References: Message-ID: <3E429FD6.20506@enst.fr> Jim Bowen wrote: > I was wondering if anyone had an NHNT file and its associated mp3 file?? Take any existing mp4, do: mp4tool -export foo.mp4 4 media to export track 4 of foo.mp4 to media.media, media.nhnt and media.info > I assume that an audio file does not need a .info file, is this correct? Yes > Also something thats been bugging me, is an nhnt file part of the > standard?? or is it just something that needs to be there to use the > mp4tool?? It sounds like a hint track, but is there a strict definition > of how hint tracks should be composed?? It is a "mux hint" track. It is a "private standard" in an informal group of people implementing MPEG-4 within IM1 (MPEG-4 Systems reference software). It is only used by mp4tool but other people have tools that generate .nhnt and .info, eg people in the former SoNG project. Best regards JC -- Jean-Claude Dufourd @======================================@ ENST, Dept COMELEC The wing, over the big rock... 46, rue Barrault @======================================@ 75013 Paris Tel: +33145817807 Fax: +33145804036 From pantaloonmc hotmail.com Fri Feb 7 11:02:54 2003 From: pantaloonmc hotmail.com (Zui Roul) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Osmose mp3 Message-ID: Hello everyone, I`ve seen a few of people asking about the osmose player and mp3 files, maybe they have had this experience When I play mp3 files(either with video or on its own) in the player, I can hear a 'clicking' noise in the background. At first I thought that it was a problem with my nhnt file, but after playing files downloaded from ENST and hearing the same thing, I`m not so sure. Has anyone else had these problems?? I remember seeing on the osmose player page, says that there are some problems with the mp3 player on some computers. Is this what its talking about?? I am running windows 2000 by the way. Does anyone know if there are mpeg-4 players for windows CE (pocket pc)available?? Thanks very much Z _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From Jean-Claude.Dufourd enst.fr Fri Feb 7 13:16:34 2003 From: Jean-Claude.Dufourd enst.fr (Jean-Claude Dufourd) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Osmose mp3 References: Message-ID: <3E43A3A2.8040400@enst.fr> Zui Roul wrote: > I`ve seen a few of people asking about the osmose player and mp3 files, > maybe they have had this experience > When I play mp3 files(either with video or on its own) in the player, I > can hear a 'clicking' noise in the background. At first I thought that > it was a problem with my nhnt file, but after playing files downloaded > from ENST and hearing the same thing, I`m not so sure. > > Has anyone else had these problems?? I remember seeing on the osmose > player page, says that there are some problems with the mp3 player on > some computers. Is this what its talking about?? I am running windows > 2000 by the way. Actually, yes, we have that problem even at ENST, which is one of the reasons behind the delay of the official announcement. On my Audigy, I hear no sound. There is no problem on an old SB. This is a difficult bug with the audio renderer. We are aware of the problem and trying to solve it. Best regards JC -- Jean-Claude Dufourd @======================================@ ENST, Dept COMELEC The wing, over the big rock... 46, rue Barrault @======================================@ 75013 Paris Tel: +33145817807 Fax: +33145804036 From cckao ms.digimax.com.tw Mon Feb 10 10:30:53 2003 From: cckao ms.digimax.com.tw (Danny Kao) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 3D BIFS example References: Message-ID: <018d01c2d0ac$87e613b0$87d447d2@danny> Hi Jim and all, Digimax had released her free MAXPEG MPEG-4 player in the middle of Dec. last year. It supports complete profiles for both Scene Graph and Graphics with minimum limitations. You can use it to render your mp4 files with 2D and 3D nodes. Go to http://www.digimax.com.tw/MPEG4/ to download the MAXPEG player and some sample content. You can also find more information about it there. -- Best Regards Danny Kao ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Bowen" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2024 8:02 PM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 3D BIFS example > > Hello all, > > Does anyone have a sample of a BIFS/MP4 file that uses 3D nodes (e.g. > Sphere, or cylinder) that will play in the Osmose player. > I have tried using the mp4tool to create such files, and don`t get any > errors, but when I try to play them (in osmose or envivio) I just get a > blank screen. > > Below is a file that I tried to use to create a 3D - box, > > Thanks in advance, > Jim > From cckao ms.digimax.com.tw Mon Feb 10 10:31:30 2003 From: cckao ms.digimax.com.tw (Danny Kao) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 3D BIFS example References: Message-ID: <019c01c2d0ac$9d947620$87d447d2@danny> Hi Jim and all, Digimax had released her free MAXPEG MPEG-4 player in the middle of Dec. last year. It supports complete profiles for both Scene Graph and Graphics with minimum limitations. You can use it to render your mp4 files with 2D and 3D nodes. Go to http://www.digimax.com.tw/MPEG4/ to download the MAXPEG player and some sample content. You can also find more information about it there. -- Best Regards Danny Kao ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Bowen" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2024 8:02 PM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 3D BIFS example > > Hello all, > > Does anyone have a sample of a BIFS/MP4 file that uses 3D nodes (e.g. > Sphere, or cylinder) that will play in the Osmose player. > I have tried using the mp4tool to create such files, and don`t get any > errors, but when I try to play them (in osmose or envivio) I just get a > blank screen. > > Below is a file that I tried to use to create a 3D - box, > > Thanks in advance, > Jim > From RamachandranV myw.ltindia.com Mon Feb 10 15:40:32 2003 From: RamachandranV myw.ltindia.com (Ramachandran V) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Request for valid mp4 aac bit stream Message-ID: Hello All, I am in search of a valid conformance test bit stream for a mp4 GA AAC (main). Plz let me know where I can find it. Thanks in advance, Ramachandran. Associate Software Engineer, Larsen & Toubro Ltd. Ph : 91-821-402561 Extn : 2709 (Off) 91-821-333954 (Res) From sps iis.fhg.de Tue Feb 11 00:06:08 2003 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Request for valid mp4 aac bit stream In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E483060.9040100@iis.fhg.de> Dear Ramachandran, you will find all MPEG-4 Audio conformance test sequences here: ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4@ftp.iis.fhg.de/mpeg4audio-conformance The AAC Main sequences are those with file names am* Best regards, Ralph Ramachandran V wrote: > Hello All, > I am in search of a valid conformance test bit stream for a mp4 GA AAC > (main). > Plz let me know where I can find it. > Thanks in advance, > Ramachandran. > Associate Software Engineer, > Larsen & Toubro Ltd. > Ph : 91-821-402561 Extn : 2709 (Off) > 91-821-333954 (Res) > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS-A | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From vharisha ftdpl.com Tue Feb 11 09:14:51 2003 From: vharisha ftdpl.com (Harisha) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] audio help Message-ID: <3E4871B3.000003.00992@harisha> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 494 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030211/614eedbd/attachment.gif From Ariel.David ParthusCeva.com Tue Feb 11 10:36:58 2003 From: Ariel.David ParthusCeva.com (Ariel David) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] mp4 video simple profile test bit streams Message-ID: <988BE481ACC95C429DCB909F74A3163A34BE4C@exchange-il> Hi all, Can someone please tell me where I can find simple profile video test bit-streams? I looked at ftp://ftp.tnt.uni-hannover.de/pub/MPEG/video/conformance/ and I found there .cmp and .bits files. Are these bit-streams? Thanks, Ariel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030211/b5a65891/attachment.html From A.Thomson indigovision.com Tue Feb 11 09:30:16 2003 From: A.Thomson indigovision.com (Alan Thomson) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] mp4 video simple profile test bit streams Message-ID: <67336BF4D5D23C4AA30EC72DFCFCA6DF35BE09@peebles.indigovision.com> The way to find out which stream is which is to look in the spec 14496-4 :-) I assume the difference between .cmp, .bits, .m4v etc is historical - everyone picked their own extension once upon a time. Cheers, A. -----Original Message----- From: Ariel David [mailto:Ariel.David@ParthusCeva.com] Sent: 11 February 2024 09:28 To: Alan Thomson Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] mp4 video simple profile test bit streams Thanks Alan, I will bug you with one more question since you're the one that answered. Can you tell how I can know which of the streams is simple profile and what's the difference between .cmp and .bits? Thanks again, Ariel -----Original Message----- From: Alan Thomson [mailto:A.Thomson@indigovision.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2024 10:49 AM To: Ariel David Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] mp4 video simple profile test bit streams Yes, these are both bitstreams. -----Original Message----- From: Ariel David [mailto:Ariel.David@ParthusCeva.com] Sent: 11 February 2024 08:37 To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] mp4 video simple profile test bit streams Hi all, Can someone please tell me where I can find simple profile video test bit-streams? I looked at ftp://ftp.tnt.uni-hannover.de/pub/MPEG/video/conformance/ and I found there .cmp and .bits files. Are these bit-streams? Thanks, Ariel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030211/86b3c371/attachment.html From grl iis.fhg.de Wed Feb 12 14:06:53 2003 From: grl iis.fhg.de (Bernhard Grill) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] audio help In-Reply-To: <3E4871B3.000003.00992@harisha> References: <3E4871B3.000003.00992@harisha> Message-ID: <3E4A46ED.2080208@iis.fhg.de> Harisha wrote: > > Hi All > > I have some question on MPEG-4 audio > > 1 what is the use program config element in GASpecificConfig,Wheter > these information is necessary for decoding raw data block.As standard > says that any PCE in raw data block can be ignored. Hallo, Yes, in a MPEG-4 AAC System you must use the PCE in the GASpecificConfig (Part of AudioSpecificConfig). Legacy MPEG-2 AAC streams might carry PCEs in the stream. These PCEs can be parsed by an MPEG-4 AAC decoder but the decoder is not required to evaluate these PCEs for any purpose. PCEs in MPEG-2 Streams might be carried for several reasons. 1.) Allow to tune into a running (ADTS) stream. In MPEG-4 you would solve this by repeating the AudioSpecificConfig in whatever transport format you are using (e.g. MPEG-4 over MPEG-2 Systems) or you dou don't need that (e.g. ISMA, MPEG-4 over IP, 3GPP, RFC 3016) because AudioSpecificConfig is transmitted over different means (e.g. SDP at the time the session is initiated on a reliable channel). 2.) Dynamic reconfiguration of the number audio channels (e.g. changing from 2 channels to 5 channels or change of sampling rate. AFAIK this is not used anywhere. In MPEG-4 you would use MPEG-4 concepts to do this (instantiate a new object and remove the old one). Best regards, Bernhard Grill > > > > ____________________________________________________ > /IncrediMail/ - > *Email has finally evolved* - *_Click Here_* > From sps iis.fhg.de Wed Feb 12 16:52:23 2003 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Request for valid mp4 aac bit stream In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E4A6DB7.7030200@iis.fhg.de> Hi Ashish, username (before the colon) and password (beyond the colon) are part of the given URL. Best regards, Ralph Ashish Malot wrote: > Hi, > Can you tell me the username and password required to > access the ftp site. > > Thanks and Regards, > Ashish Malot > > > -----Original Message----- > From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Ralph Sperschneider > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2024 4:36 AM > To: Ramachandran V > Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Request for valid mp4 aac bit stream > > > Dear Ramachandran, > > you will find all MPEG-4 Audio conformance test sequences here: > > ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4@ftp.iis.fhg.de/mpeg4audio-conformance > > The AAC Main sequences are those with file names am* > > Best regards, > > Ralph > > > > Ramachandran V wrote: > > >Hello All, > >I am in search of a valid conformance test bit stream for a mp4 GA AAC > >(main). > >Plz let me know where I can find it. > >Thanks in advance, > >Ramachandran. > >Associate Software Engineer, > >Larsen & Toubro Ltd. > >Ph : 91-821-402561 Extn : 2709 (Off) > > 91-821-333954 (Res) > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Technotes mailing list > >Technotes@lists.m4if.org > >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS-A | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From jimbowen56 hotmail.com Wed Feb 12 16:20:45 2003 From: jimbowen56 hotmail.com (Jim Bowen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] clock reference stream Message-ID: Hi all, Just wondering if anyone had any experience using clock reference streams to synchronise data (e.g. an audio and video stream)?? I have never seen a clock reference stream, and would like to know what it looks like. Thanks, Jim _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From marten.thielges student.uni-tuebingen.de Wed Feb 12 21:42:41 2003 From: marten.thielges student.uni-tuebingen.de (marten.thielges@student.uni-tuebingen.de) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] mpeg-4 audio reference software Message-ID: <87F315DA-3ECA-11D7-88C1-000393597B84@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Hello, I have some trouble with the natural audio reference software, perhaps someone can help: I have compiled the software (mp4auenc/mp4audec) for win32 using ms visual c++ 6.0 successfully (including afsp audio file format library and mp4 file format using libisomp4 - not libisomedia). I can for example encode an audio file to mpeg-4 celp (the .mp4 file size seems appropriate), but the trouble lies in decoding the resulting .mp4 file. mp4audec only returns "WARNING: error decoding audio file .... .mp4". I also tried playing the resulting celp files in EnvivioTV (which supports mpeg-4 celp) and it failed as well. Trying to decode the official audio conformance celp bitstreams with mp4audec.exe didn't work either :( If someone has a working natural audio reference en-/decoder for win, I would be very thankful, if that person could send it to me via email. Greets, Marten Thielges From squear gmx.de Thu Feb 13 14:15:26 2003 From: squear gmx.de (Sebastian Voigt) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Updating of BIFS-Scenes Message-ID: <003f01c2d361$fb63b7e0$9002a8c0@baphomet> Hello I like to put additional BIFS-nodes to an existing, viewed scene. I have the basic-scene as an mp4-File. It is possible to update the existing basic-scene by loading another mp4-File(bifs starts with INSERT Node), that contains an new subgraph for the basic scene? With kind regards Sebastian Voigt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030213/ed654b08/attachment.html From Lefan mediaq.com Thu Feb 13 10:52:13 2003 From: Lefan mediaq.com (Lefan Zhong) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Is it a bug in the reference software? Message-ID: Hi folks, I traced Microsoft MPEG-4 reference software and found that it wouldn't allow a packet end with stuffed macroblocks since it doesn't check resyn_marker during mcbpc decoding, it may take the resyn_marker of next packet as mcbpc to decode. Momusys software checks the resyn_marker. Questions: 1) Does anyone know that MPEG-4 spec doesn't allow a packet end with stuffed macroblocks? 2) Is it possible a bug in MS reference software? 3) Has any company generated a bitstream with this feature for conformance testing? Thank you for your time. Lefan From sps iis.fhg.de Thu Feb 13 20:16:00 2003 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: mpeg-4 audio reference software In-Reply-To: <87F315DA-3ECA-11D7-88C1-000393597B84@student.uni-tuebingen.de> References: <87F315DA-3ECA-11D7-88C1-000393597B84@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Message-ID: <3E4BEEF0.5030107@iis.fhg.de> Marten, please note, that the encoder does not provide files in mp4 file fomat (although they have the suffix .mp4) but in a certain (non-standard) flex-mux format. If you want to create an mp4 file, you have to use the appropriate converter (fl4_to_mp4), which is part of the reference software. The codec-chain might e.g. look as follows: mp4auenc -d 1 -m lpc -r 6000 -c -mp4ff m08.au -o m08_celp6.fl4 fl4_to_mp4 -d 1 m08_celp6.fl4 -o m08_celp6.mp4 mp4audec -d 1 m08_celp6.mp4 -o m08_celp6.au Please note further, that you have to use the most recent version of the mp4 file library (libisomedia) in order to successfully decode the conformance test sequences (there was a bug in an earlier version of the mp4 file library). Best regards, Ralph PS: My I kindly ask for the version of the referece software you are using? marten.thielges@student.uni-tuebingen.de wrote: > Hello, > > I have some trouble with the natural audio reference software, perhaps > someone can help: > > I have compiled the software (mp4auenc/mp4audec) for win32 using ms > visual c++ 6.0 successfully (including afsp audio file format library > and mp4 file format using libisomp4 - not libisomedia). > > I can for example encode an audio file to mpeg-4 celp (the .mp4 file > size seems appropriate), but the trouble lies in decoding the resulting > .mp4 file. > mp4audec only returns "WARNING: error decoding audio file .... .mp4". > I also tried playing the resulting celp files in EnvivioTV (which > supports mpeg-4 celp) and it failed as well. > Trying to decode the official audio conformance celp bitstreams with > mp4audec.exe didn't work either :( > > If someone has a working natural audio reference en-/decoder for win, I > would be very thankful, if that person could send it to me via email. > > Greets, > Marten Thielges > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS-A | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From mikael sevenier.com Thu Feb 13 11:49:40 2003 From: mikael sevenier.com (Mikael Bourges-Sevenier) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Updating of BIFS-Scenes In-Reply-To: <003f01c2d361$fb63b7e0$9002a8c0@baphomet> Message-ID: <009f01c2d399$0f750720$6701a8c0@merlin> Hi Sebastian, you can use insert commands, provided the grouping node you are inserting nodes is DEF'd. Another way is to add an Inline node in the basic-scene that refers to an mp4 file. This way, you can update this inlined scene independently of the basic scene. Hope it helps, Best, Mike -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of Sebastian Voigt Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2024 5:15 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Updating of BIFS-Scenes Hello I like to put additional BIFS-nodes to an existing, viewed scene. I have the basic-scene as an mp4-File. It is possible to update the existing basic-scene by loading another mp4-File(bifs starts with INSERT Node), that contains an new subgraph for the basic scene? With kind regards Sebastian Voigt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030213/9088d9f3/attachment.html From squear gmx.de Fri Feb 14 10:06:01 2003 From: squear gmx.de (Sebastian Voigt) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Updating of BIFS-Scenes References: <009f01c2d399$0f750720$6701a8c0@merlin> Message-ID: <001801c2d408$4eb0c630$9002a8c0@baphomet> MessageHi I like to try both ways. Yesterday I tested it with Insert-Commands. I describe my scenes in XMT-A, and transform them in bifstext(scene, script, bt). XMT accept INSERT-Commands, but if I transform it to bifs-text, the bt and the scene-File are empty. Now I looked for an implementation of INSERT commands in bifs-text, nothing to found in all my examples and papers. What's the syntax of bifs-commands in bifs-text-formats? Can an BIFS-Command be placed at the beginn of bifs-text-files? best regards Sebastian ----- Original Message ----- From: Mikael Bourges-Sevenier To: 'Sebastian Voigt' ; technotes@lists.m4if.org Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2024 8:49 PM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Updating of BIFS-Scenes Hi Sebastian, you can use insert commands, provided the grouping node you are inserting nodes is DEF'd. Another way is to add an Inline node in the basic-scene that refers to an mp4 file. This way, you can update this inlined scene independently of the basic scene. Hope it helps, Best, Mike -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of Sebastian Voigt Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2024 5:15 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Updating of BIFS-Scenes Hello I like to put additional BIFS-nodes to an existing, viewed scene. I have the basic-scene as an mp4-File. It is possible to update the existing basic-scene by loading another mp4-File(bifs starts with INSERT Node), that contains an new subgraph for the basic scene? With kind regards Sebastian Voigt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030214/e864dc84/attachment.html From rob.koenen m4if.org Fri Feb 14 10:20:18 2003 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Request for valid mp4 aac bit stream In-Reply-To: <3E4A6DB7.7030200@iis.fhg.de> Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59016BF03D@exchange.epr.com> also Apple has MPEG-4 audio on their website. See M4IF resources page. Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Ralph Sperschneider [mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de] > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2024 7:52 AM > To: Ashish Malot > Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Request for valid mp4 aac bit stream > > > Hi Ashish, > > username (before the colon) and password (beyond the colon) > are part of the > given URL. > > Best regards, > > Ralph > > > Ashish Malot wrote: > > > Hi, > > Can you tell me the username and password required to > > access the ftp site. > > > > Thanks and Regards, > > Ashish Malot > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > > [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Ralph > > Sperschneider > > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2024 4:36 AM > > To: Ramachandran V > > Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org > > Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Request for valid mp4 aac bit stream > > > > > > Dear Ramachandran, > > > > you will find all MPEG-4 Audio conformance test sequences here: > > > > ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4@ftp.iis.fhg.de/mpeg4audio-conformance > > > > The AAC Main sequences are those with file names am* > > > > Best regards, > > > > Ralph > > > > > > > > Ramachandran V wrote: > > > > >Hello All, > > >I am in search of a valid conformance test bit stream for a mp4 GA > > >AAC (main). Plz let me know where I can find it. > > >Thanks in advance, > > >Ramachandran. > > >Associate Software Engineer, > > >Larsen & Toubro Ltd. > > >Ph : 91-821-402561 Extn : 2709 (Off) > > > 91-821-333954 (Res) > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Technotes mailing list > > >Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > > > > > -- > Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 > FhG IIS-A | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 > Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de > D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technot> es > From yrenjie sina.com Mon Feb 10 11:55:10 2003 From: yrenjie sina.com (Yu Renjie) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] about Resynchronization tool Message-ID: <200302170357.h1H3v6s26503@lists1.magma.ca> Hi all can somebody tell me what is the value of resync mark of VP? Best regards From tma iis.fhg.de Mon Feb 17 10:03:11 2003 From: tma iis.fhg.de (Herbert Thoma) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] about Resynchronization tool References: <200302170357.h1H3v6s26503@lists1.magma.ca> Message-ID: <3E50A54F.3ADCE790@iis.fhg.de> Yu Renjie schrieb: > > Hi all > can somebody tell me what is the value of resync mark of VP? see ISO/IEC 14496-2:2001 section 6.3.5 page 124. resync_marker for IVOP: 0000 0000 0000 0000 1 P & S(GMC) VOP: (15 + fcode) zeros + a one BVOP: max(15 + fcode, 17) zeros + a one Herbert. > Best regards > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -- Herbert Thoma FhG-IIS A, Studio Department Am Weichselgarten 3, 91058 Erlangen, Germany Phone: +49-9131-776-323 Fax: +49-9131-776-399 email: tma@iis.fhg.de www: http://www.iis.fhg.de/ From gey iis.fhg.de Mon Feb 17 11:04:21 2003 From: gey iis.fhg.de (Stefan Geyersberger) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Request for valid mp4 aac bit stream In-Reply-To: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59016BF03D@exchange.epr.com> References: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59016BF03D@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: <3E50B3A5.5050409@iis.fhg.de> Rob, there is a commercial MP4 encoder available (using Fraunhofer's MP4 AAC encoder engine): http://www.sorenson.com/content.php?cats=2/75&nav=2#encoders Regards, -- ====================================================================== Stefan Geyersberger Business Development, Software and IP Licensing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fraunhofer IIS WEB: http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ Audio & Multimedia direct: +49 (9131) 776 316 Am Wolfsmantel 33 fax: +49 (9131) 776 399 91058 Erlangen mobile: +49 (175) 2237377 Germany email: gey@iis.fhg.de ====================================================================== Rob Koenen wrote: > also Apple has MPEG-4 audio on their website. > See M4IF resources page. > > Rob > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Ralph Sperschneider [mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de] >>Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2024 7:52 AM >>To: Ashish Malot >>Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org >>Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Request for valid mp4 aac bit stream >> >> >>Hi Ashish, >> >>username (before the colon) and password (beyond the colon) >>are part of the >>given URL. >> >>Best regards, >> >>Ralph >> >> >>Ashish Malot wrote: >> >> >>>Hi, >>> Can you tell me the username and password required to >>>access the ftp site. >>> >>>Thanks and Regards, >>>Ashish Malot >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org >>>[mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Ralph >>>Sperschneider >>>Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2024 4:36 AM >>>To: Ramachandran V >>>Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org >>>Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Request for valid mp4 aac bit stream >>> >>> >>>Dear Ramachandran, >>> >>>you will find all MPEG-4 Audio conformance test sequences here: >>> >>>ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4@ftp.iis.fhg.de/mpeg4audio-conformance >>> >>>The AAC Main sequences are those with file names am* >>> >>>Best regards, >>> >>>Ralph >>> >>> >>> >>>Ramachandran V wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Hello All, >>>>I am in search of a valid conformance test bit stream for a mp4 GA >>>>AAC (main). Plz let me know where I can find it. >>>>Thanks in advance, >>>>Ramachandran. >>>>Associate Software Engineer, >>>>Larsen & Toubro Ltd. >>>>Ph : 91-821-402561 Extn : 2709 (Off) >>>> 91-821-333954 (Res) >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Technotes mailing list >>>>Technotes@lists.m4if.org >>>>http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes >>> >>> >>-- >>Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 >>FhG IIS-A | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 >>Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de >>D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Technotes mailing list >>Technotes@lists.m4if.org >>http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technot> es >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From sma com.dtu.dk Mon Feb 17 13:45:40 2003 From: sma com.dtu.dk (Shankar Manuel Aghito) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MoMuSys on Windows Message-ID: <200302171345.40638.sma@com.dtu.dk> Does anyone know how to compile MoMuSys on Windows Platform? I tried hard, without success, using Cygwin. If anyone has managed to do it, I'll be grateful to get the executable. bye, Manuel From sma com.dtu.dk Mon Feb 17 14:06:23 2003 From: sma com.dtu.dk (Shankar Manuel Aghito) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MoMuSys on Windows Message-ID: <200302171406.23959.sma@com.dtu.dk> Does anyone know how to compile MoMuSys on Windows platform? I tried hard but without success, using Cygwin. If anyone has managed to do it, I'll be grateful to get the executable. bye, Manuel From bhaskar.sherigar broadcom.com Mon Feb 17 18:46:51 2003 From: bhaskar.sherigar broadcom.com (Bhaskar Sherigar) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] A Question about Type 2 Escape coding Message-ID: <3E50E0C3.18FD53F2@broadcom.com> Hi all, I have a question about the Type 2 Escape coding in MPEG4. The spec says to modify the RUN arriving in the stream with a formula RUNs= (RUN+ + RMAX+1), Where max value of RMAX = 40. ( Table B-22, LAST =1, LEVEL =1) If RUN+ happens to be more than 23 ( which arrives in the stream), It crosses block boundary. Is it guaranteed, that RUN+ never arrives in the stream which is more than 23 when type 2 of escape coding is used ? Thanks in advance, Bhaskar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030217/b9b8d44a/attachment.html From gaodd soft.thtf.com.cn Tue Feb 18 10:51:55 2003 From: gaodd soft.thtf.com.cn (gaodd) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] About Video Packet! Message-ID: <007501c2d6f8$b5ba15a0$1fd06fa6@gaodd> hi now i have a question: in my view, video packet should be in lower layer than VOP, when decoding macroblock, we must go through VOP->Video Packet ->Macroblock, is it right? then what's the actual relation between Video Packet and VOP? thanks for help! Regards, gaodd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030218/d1144aca/attachment.html From lmartel atsana.com Tue Feb 18 15:38:45 2003 From: lmartel atsana.com (Luc Martel) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] INTRA texture in a P-Frame Message-ID: <002701c2d78d$bbdd0560$e805000a@lumictech.com> Hi, Is there any way to trace INTRA texture decoded in a P frame. I managed to compile MoMuSys for Linux with all the possible traces enable and it's tracing the INTRA texture in I-Frames but I'm interested in the INTRA MacroBlocks I have in a P-Frame. If somebody has or knows something to trace that, whether it's on Linux or Windows or whatever I would appreciate. Tkx in advance. Luc From kosuge td.idc.lsi.sanyo.co.jp Wed Feb 19 17:34:04 2003 From: kosuge td.idc.lsi.sanyo.co.jp (tetsuo kosuge) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question about intra_dc_vlc_thr Message-ID: <200302190834.AA00138@kosuge.td.idc.lsi.sanyo.co.jp> Dear MPEG-4 experts : I have a question about intra_dc_vlc_thr. When Qp over this threshold,changes tcoeff Table. In this case, DCAC prediction is valid ? Do I treat as if Inter MB? bye, Tetsuo Kosuge From gautamkumar ti.com Wed Feb 19 14:38:45 2003 From: gautamkumar ti.com (Kumar, Gautam) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question about intra_dc_vlc_thr Message-ID: Kosuge San, i think, this intra_dc_vlc_thr is only for vlc (encoding/decoding the dc value using dc/ac table). not for quantization. so the dcac prediction will be valid. Regards, Gautam >-----Original Message----- >From: tetsuo kosuge [mailto:kosuge@td.idc.lsi.sanyo.co.jp] >Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2024 2:04 PM >To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org >Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question about intra_dc_vlc_thr > > >Dear MPEG-4 experts : > >I have a question about intra_dc_vlc_thr. >When Qp over this threshold,changes tcoeff Table. >In this case, DCAC prediction is valid ? Do I treat as if Inter MB? > >bye, >Tetsuo Kosuge > > >_______________________________________________ >Technotes mailing list >Technotes@lists.m4if.org >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From guraaf yahoo.co.in Thu Feb 20 10:31:28 2003 From: guraaf yahoo.co.in (Gaurav Aggarwal) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] About Video Packet! In-Reply-To: <007501c2d6f8$b5ba15a0$1fd06fa6@gaodd> Message-ID: <02ef01c2d89d$2027a790$7810840a@blr.broadcom.com> Yes, video packet is lower layer as compared to VOP and decoding is VOP -> Video Packet -> MB. What's the confusion? I didn't really understand your question. Gaurav -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of gaodd Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2024 8:22 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] About Video Packet! hi now i have a question: in my view, video packet should be in lower layer than VOP, when decoding macroblock, we must go through VOP->Video Packet ->Macroblock, is it right? then what's the actual relation between Video Packet and VOP? thanks for help! Regards, gaodd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030220/faa0e486/attachment.html From gautamkumar ti.com Thu Feb 20 11:00:24 2003 From: gautamkumar ti.com (Kumar, Gautam) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] About Video Packet! Message-ID: Gaurav is correct.. i will elaborate it further for error resilience is implemented in three ways: 1. Video Packet (Slice Resynchronization) 2. Data partitioning 3. RVLC. first level is Video Packet. so if there are more than one video packet in VOP, it provides a mechanism to synchronize the data at the decoder end. if there is only one video packet per VOP then it is probably useless, as VOP header could have been used for sync. Best Regards, Gautam -----Original Message----- From: Gaurav Aggarwal [mailto:guraaf@yahoo.co.in] Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2024 10:31 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] About Video Packet! Yes, video packet is lower layer as compared to VOP and decoding is VOP -> Video Packet -> MB. What's the confusion? I didn't really understand your question. Gaurav -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of gaodd Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2024 8:22 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] About Video Packet! hi now i have a question: in my view, video packet should be in lower layer than VOP, when decoding macroblock, we must go through VOP->Video Packet ->Macroblock, is it right? then what's the actual relation between Video Packet and VOP? thanks for help! Regards, gaodd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030220/6d0bbb5e/attachment.html From tekalp ece.rochester.edu Thu Feb 20 00:47:37 2003 From: tekalp ece.rochester.edu (A. Murat Tekalp) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] About Video Packet! References: Message-ID: <3E546BF9.8010909@ece.rochester.edu> Can you also comment on the utility of RVLC in packet video. Doesn't the network discard packets with bit errors? Murat Kumar, Gautam wrote: > Gaurav is correct.. i will elaborate it further > > for error resilience is implemented in three ways: > 1. Video Packet (Slice Resynchronization) > 2. Data partitioning > 3. RVLC. > > first level is Video Packet. > so if there are more than one video packet in VOP, it provides a > mechanism to synchronize the data at the decoder end. > if there is only one video packet per VOP then it is probably useless, > as VOP header could have been used for sync. > > Best Regards, > Gautam > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gaurav Aggarwal [mailto:guraaf@yahoo.co.in] > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2024 10:31 AM > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] About Video Packet! > > Yes, video packet is lower layer as compared to VOP and decoding > is VOP -> Video Packet -> MB. > What's the confusion? I didn't really understand your question. > > Gaurav > > -----Original Message----- > From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of gaodd > Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2024 8:22 AM > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] About Video Packet! > > hi > > now i have a question: in my view, video packet should be in > lower layer than VOP, when decoding macroblock, we must go > through VOP->Video Packet ->Macroblock, is it right? then what's the actual relation > between Video Packet and VOP? > > thanks for help! > > Regards, > gaodd > -- A. Murat Tekalp, Distinguished University Professor Phone: (585) 275-3774 Dept. of Electrical and Computer Eng. FAX : (585) 273-4919 Hopeman 204, University of Rochester E-mail: tekalp@ece.rochester.edu Rochester, NY 14627-0126 Web: http://www.ece.rochester.edu/~tekalp/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030220/2c83d1a7/attachment.html From iamgfzhou sina.com Thu Feb 20 16:52:59 2003 From: iamgfzhou sina.com (Zhou Guanfeng) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] About MicroBlock in B-VOP Message-ID: <000a01c2d8bd$7ee57260$020000c0@zhougf> Hello everyone, Is the compensation error coded when coding a microblock in B-VOP? Thanks in advance. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030220/83d05531/attachment.html From fuchs iis.fhg.de Thu Feb 20 12:32:05 2003 From: fuchs iis.fhg.de (Harald Fuchs) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] About Video Packet! In-Reply-To: <3E546BF9.8010909@ece.rochester.edu> References: <3E546BF9.8010909@ece.rochester.edu> Message-ID: <200302201232.05317.fuchs@iis.fhg.de> On Thursday 20 February 2024 06:47, A. Murat Tekalp wrote: > Can you also comment on the utility of RVLC in packet video. > Doesn't the network discard packets with bit errors? > Murat > RVLC and data partitioning are only useful for transmissions with bit errors. In the usual internet environment (IP/UDP/RTP) packets with errors are discarded (as you said) and not delivered to the client application. Only the video packet resync markers are useful to divide a video access unit into several rtp packets that are decodable separately. In closed ip-networks over radio links with a moderate bit error rate it may be useful to deliver error prone packets utilizing the UDP-lite internet draft instead of discaring all packets with errors completely. In this environment the use of data partitioning and RVLC makes sense. Regards, Harald -- ------------------------------------------------------------- Harald Fuchs Fraunhofer IIS email: fuchs@iis.fhg.de Department Studio phone: +49-9131-776-382 Am Wolfsmantel 33 fax : +49-9131-776-399 D-91058 Erlangen (Germany) ============================================================= From tshanableh aus.ac.ae Thu Feb 20 21:44:03 2003 From: tshanableh aus.ac.ae (Tamer Shanableh) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] About Video Packet! References: Message-ID: <001c01c2d907$a98c0700$e45511ac@TamerHome> ----------------------------------------- (on interscan) noname was scanned and no virus found ( American University of Sharjah - Network Section ) noname was scanned and no virus found ( American University of Sharjah - Network Section ) --------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- "if there is only one video packet per VOP then it is probably useless, as VOP header could have been used for sync." That is true, unless you have corrupted fields in the VOP header, in such cases the HE of the video packet will be useful indeed. Tamer ----- Original Message ----- From: Kumar, Gautam To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Cc: Gaurav Aggarwal ; gaodd Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2024 9:30 AM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] About Video Packet! Gaurav is correct.. i will elaborate it further for error resilience is implemented in three ways: 1. Video Packet (Slice Resynchronization) 2. Data partitioning 3. RVLC. first level is Video Packet. so if there are more than one video packet in VOP, it provides a mechanism to synchronize the data at the decoder end. if there is only one video packet per VOP then it is probably useless, as VOP header could have been used for sync. Best Regards, Gautam -----Original Message----- From: Gaurav Aggarwal [mailto:guraaf@yahoo.co.in] Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2024 10:31 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] About Video Packet! Yes, video packet is lower layer as compared to VOP and decoding is VOP -> Video Packet -> MB. What's the confusion? I didn't really understand your question. Gaurav -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of gaodd Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2024 8:22 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] About Video Packet! hi now i have a question: in my view, video packet should be in lower layer than VOP, when decoding macroblock, we must go through VOP->Video Packet ->Macroblock, is it right? then what's the actual relation between Video Packet and VOP? thanks for help! Regards, gaodd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030220/1eac92ce/attachment.html From aara10 hotmail.com Fri Feb 21 00:44:01 2003 From: aara10 hotmail.com (Alejandro RAMIREZ) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] A Question Message-ID: Hi all, I have a question about the next papers. Help me, I need the papers: MPEG Test Model 5, ISO/IEC JTC/SC29/WG11 Document, April 1993 and MPEG-4 Video Verification Model v8.0 ISO/IEC JTC1/SC29/WG11 Coding of Moving Pictures and Associated Audio MPEG97/N1796 Stockholm, Sweden, July 1997 where I can find Thanks Alex _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger : discutez en direct avec vos amis ! http://www.msn.fr/msger/default.asp From kosuge td.idc.lsi.sanyo.co.jp Fri Feb 21 13:44:22 2003 From: kosuge td.idc.lsi.sanyo.co.jp (tetsuo kosuge) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question about intra_dc_vlc_thr2 Message-ID: <200302210444.AA00142@kosuge.td.idc.lsi.sanyo.co.jp> Dear: MPEG-4 Experts Thanks to answer my previous question, Mr.Gautam. I can understand. I have one more question. If Intra MB which over Intra_dc_thr and block pattern_code == 0, in this case dc_coeff is also derived from Intra VLC ? If derive from Intra VLC, is always LAST and RUN 0 ? And do exist ESC ? bye Tetsuo Kosuge From gautamkumar ti.com Fri Feb 21 10:46:26 2003 From: gautamkumar ti.com (Kumar, Gautam) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question about intra_dc_vlc_thr2 Message-ID: Kosuge-San, intra_vlc_format is function of intra_dc_vlc_thr and qp. if intra_vlc_format = 1 and mbintra = 1 ==> dc value is encoded using ac table (table B-16). last need not to be zero. run is always zero for this, as this is the first element. i think, escape code should be used if it falls outside the table range. Warm Regards, Gautam >-----Original Message----- >From: tetsuo kosuge [mailto:kosuge@td.idc.lsi.sanyo.co.jp] >Sent: Friday, February 21, 2024 10:14 AM >To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org >Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question about intra_dc_vlc_thr2 > > >Dear: MPEG-4 Experts > >Thanks to answer my previous question, Mr.Gautam. >I can understand. > >I have one more question. >If Intra MB which over Intra_dc_thr and block pattern_code == >0, in this case dc_coeff is also derived from Intra VLC ? >If derive from Intra VLC, is always LAST and RUN 0 ? And do >exist ESC ? > >bye > Tetsuo Kosuge >_______________________________________________ >Technotes mailing list >Technotes@lists.m4if.org >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From gchandra tataelxsi.co.in Fri Feb 21 11:16:23 2003 From: gchandra tataelxsi.co.in (Chandra Sekhar Reddy G) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] About Video Packet! References: <001c01c2d907$a98c0700$e45511ac@TamerHome> Message-ID: <006001c2d96c$9191c4e0$b514010a@gchandra> hi, check the syntax below (taken from the standard). VideoObjectPlane() { vop_start_code 32 bslbf; vop_coding_type 2 uimsbf; ------------ some other parameters ------------- motion_shape_texture(); while (nextbits_bytealigned() == resync_marker) { video_packet_header(); motion_shape_texture(); } -------------- some other parameters -------------- } motion_shape_texture() { if (data_partitioned ) { data_partitioned_motion_shape_texture(); } else { combined_motion_shape_texture(); } } combined_motion_shape_texture() { do { macroblock(); } while (nextbits_bytealigned() != resync_marker && nextbits_bytealigned() != '000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000'); } if we take "motion_shape_texture" to be equivalent to a video-packet, for the first "motion_shape_texture", there is the no "video_packet_header". that means, if there is only one video packet, there is no question of video-packet-header. regards, chandra ----- Original Message ----- From: Tamer Shanableh To: Kumar Gautam ; technotes@lists.m4if.org Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2024 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] About Video Packet! "if there is only one video packet per VOP then it is probably useless, as VOP header could have been used for sync." That is true, unless you have corrupted fields in the VOP header, in such cases the HE of the video packet will be useful indeed. Tamer ----- Original Message ----- From: Kumar, Gautam To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Cc: Gaurav Aggarwal ; gaodd Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2024 9:30 AM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] About Video Packet! Gaurav is correct.. i will elaborate it further for error resilience is implemented in three ways: 1. Video Packet (Slice Resynchronization) 2. Data partitioning 3. RVLC. first level is Video Packet. so if there are more than one video packet in VOP, it provides a mechanism to synchronize the data at the decoder end. if there is only one video packet per VOP then it is probably useless, as VOP header could have been used for sync. Best Regards, Gautam -----Original Message----- From: Gaurav Aggarwal [mailto:guraaf@yahoo.co.in] Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2024 10:31 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] About Video Packet! Yes, video packet is lower layer as compared to VOP and decoding is VOP -> Video Packet -> MB. What's the confusion? I didn't really understand your question. Gaurav -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of gaodd Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2024 8:22 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] About Video Packet! hi now i have a question: in my view, video packet should be in lower layer than VOP, when decoding macroblock, we must go through VOP->Video Packet ->Macroblock, is it right? then what's the actual relation between Video Packet and VOP? thanks for help! Regards, gaodd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030221/2decdd4b/attachment.html From rob.koenen m4if.org Thu Feb 20 22:07:12 2003 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] A Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59016BF13C@exchange.epr.com> > MPEG Test Model 5, ISO/IEC JTC/SC29/WG11 Document, April 1993 That's an MPEG-2 document. I think it can be purchased form ISO in the form of the MPEG-2 Reference SW. > MPEG-4 Video Verification Model v8.0 ISO/IEC JTC1/SC29/WG11 > Coding of Moving Pictures and Associated Audio MPEG97/N1796 > Stockholm, Sweden, July 1997 That one can be downloaded for free in a better and more up-to-date form as the MPEG-4 reference SW. See Resources pages on M4IF website. Best, Rob From ssurui 263.net Fri Feb 21 14:39:22 2003 From: ssurui 263.net (ssurui) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question ablout Error_Resilient_Disable Message-ID: <006801c2d974$017c43f0$230000c0@ssurui> Hi all: I have a quest ablout Error_Resilient_Disable flags. I can't find this flags in MPEG-4 syntaxs and can't find its meaning in Semantics. But I think this flag is useful. please tell me why? Thanks a lot ssurui -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030221/3e9fc1d1/attachment.html From zhenzhongc hotmail.com Fri Feb 21 14:55:49 2003 From: zhenzhongc hotmail.com (Zhenzhong CHEN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] A Question References: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59016BF13C@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: TM5 is available online: http://www.mpeg.org/MPEG/MSSG/tm5/ Hope this helpful. Regards, Zhenzhong ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Koenen" To: "'Alejandro RAMIREZ'" ; Sent: Friday, February 21, 2024 2:07 PM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] A Question > > MPEG Test Model 5, ISO/IEC JTC/SC29/WG11 Document, April 1993 > > That's an MPEG-2 document. I think it can be purchased form ISO in the form > of the MPEG-2 Reference SW. > > > MPEG-4 Video Verification Model v8.0 ISO/IEC JTC1/SC29/WG11 > > Coding of Moving Pictures and Associated Audio MPEG97/N1796 > > Stockholm, Sweden, July 1997 > > That one can be downloaded for free in a better and more up-to-date form as > the MPEG-4 reference SW. > See Resources pages on M4IF website. > > Best, > Rob > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From Alf.Rieckmann mobilesmartsinc.com Fri Feb 21 15:39:11 2003 From: Alf.Rieckmann mobilesmartsinc.com (Alf Rieckmann) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:45 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Standard version for simple profile? References: <001c01c2d907$a98c0700$e45511ac@TamerHome> <006001c2d96c$9191c4e0$b514010a@gchandra> Message-ID: <3E56B89F.1050402@mobilesmartsinc.com> Hello everybody, I was wondering if the 14496-2:1999 version represents the latest simple profile syntax or if there are any changes for which I would need a newer version of the standard. I am not interested in advanced simple profile. Thanks for help Regards Alf From Lefan mediaq.com Fri Feb 21 17:05:51 2003 From: Lefan mediaq.com (Lefan Zhong) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:45 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Standard version for simple profile? Message-ID: The changes are very few, but it is better to get the newest version. For example, in 1999 version you cannot add any stuffing Macroblock for H.263, since the document didn't claim that stuffing Macroblock shouldn't increase the Macroblock count. The 2001 version claimed that. Lefan -----Original Message----- From: Alf Rieckmann [mailto:Alf.Rieckmann@mobilesmartsinc.com] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2024 3:39 PM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Standard version for simple profile? Hello everybody, I was wondering if the 14496-2:1999 version represents the latest simple profile syntax or if there are any changes for which I would need a newer version of the standard. I am not interested in advanced simple profile. Thanks for help Regards Alf _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From kosuge td.idc.lsi.sanyo.co.jp Mon Feb 24 10:09:27 2003 From: kosuge td.idc.lsi.sanyo.co.jp (tetsuo kosuge) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:46 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question about intra_dc_vlc_thr2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200302240109.AA00145@kosuge.td.idc.lsi.sanyo.co.jp> Dear Mr.Gautam and other MPEG-4 Experts : Thanks to answer my question again, Mr.Gautam Your thouhgt is reasonable,I think so. If (Qp >= intra_dc_vlc_thr && pattern_code==0),usually think dc_coeff exist. But I checked this sequence in microsft_vfdis_v10-990812 codec,seem the bitstream doesn't obey that sequence. In this bitstream, has priority over Intra_MB. When (Qp >= intra_dc_vlc_thr && pattern_code==0), the block doesn't have dc_coeff(say has 0 value in all coeff). The other bitstream which does't make microsft codec obeys the same sequence. And I read 14496-2:2001,this represents as follows: 7.4.1.4 Intra dc coefficient decoding for the case of switched encoding At the VOP layer,using quantizer value as the threshold,a 3 bit code(intra_dc_vlc_thr) allows switching between 2VLCs(DC Intra VLC and AC Intra VLC)when decoding DC coefficients of Intra macroblocks,see Table 6-21. NOTE When the intra AC VLC is turned on,IntraDC coefficients are not handled separately any more,but treated the same as all other coefficients.That means that a zero Intra DC coefficient will not be coded but will simply increase the run for the following AC coefficients.The definitions of mcbpc and cbpy in subclause 6.3.6 are changed accordingly. What does it(mcbpc and cbpy in subclause 6.3.6 are changed accordingly) represents ? It is that (CBP==1) -> (CBP==0) or (CBP==1) -> (CBP==0),or (Intra MB) -> (Inter MB) ? I can't judge correct sequence(for my lack of English kowledge? (TT) ). Which is sequence correct? Bye, Tetsuo Kosuge >Kosuge-San, > >intra_vlc_format is function of intra_dc_vlc_thr and qp. >if intra_vlc_format = 1 and mbintra = 1 ==> dc value is encoded using ac >table (table B-16). >last need not to be zero. run is always zero for this, as this is the first >element. >i think, escape code should be used if it falls outside the table range. > >Warm Regards, >Gautam > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: tetsuo kosuge [mailto:kosuge@td.idc.lsi.sanyo.co.jp] >>Sent: Friday, February 21, 2024 10:14 AM >>To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org >>Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question about intra_dc_vlc_thr2 >> >> >>Dear: MPEG-4 Experts >> >>Thanks to answer my previous question, Mr.Gautam. >>I can understand. >> >>I have one more question. >>If Intra MB which over Intra_dc_thr and block pattern_code == >>0, in this case dc_coeff is also derived from Intra VLC ? >>If derive from Intra VLC, is always LAST and RUN 0 ? And do >>exist ESC ? >> >>bye >> Tetsuo Kosuge >>_______________________________________________ >>Technotes mailing list >>Technotes@lists.m4if.org >>http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes >> >_______________________________________________ >Technotes mailing list >Technotes@lists.m4if.org >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From gautamkumar ti.com Mon Feb 24 08:29:22 2003 From: gautamkumar ti.com (Kumar, Gautam) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:47 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question about intra_dc_vlc_thr2 Message-ID: Kosuge-San, > What does it(mcbpc and cbpy in subclause 6.3.6 are changed >accordingly) represents ? It is that (CBP==1) -> (CBP==0) > or (CBP==1) -> (CBP==0),or (Intra MB) -> (Inter MB) ? generally: 1. for inter mb we consider all 64 values(including dc value) in a block to calculate cbp ((cbpy<<2) | (mcbpc & 3)). 2. for intra mb we consider only 63 values(excluding dc value) in a block to calculate cbp ((cbpy<<2) | (mcbpc & 3)). When the intra AC VLC is turned on, case 1 should be applicable for intra mb. Thanks and Regards, Gautam >-----Original Message----- >From: tetsuo kosuge [mailto:kosuge@td.idc.lsi.sanyo.co.jp] >Sent: Monday, February 24, 2024 6:39 AM >To: Kumar, Gautam >Cc: Technotes@lists.m4if.org >Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] question about intra_dc_vlc_thr2 > > >Dear Mr.Gautam and other MPEG-4 Experts : > >Thanks to answer my question again, Mr.Gautam > >Your thouhgt is reasonable,I think so. >If (Qp >= intra_dc_vlc_thr && pattern_code==0),usually think >dc_coeff exist. > >But I checked this sequence in microsft_vfdis_v10-990812 >codec,seem the bitstream doesn't obey that sequence. >In this bitstream, has priority over Intra_MB. >When (Qp >= intra_dc_vlc_thr && pattern_code==0), the block >doesn't have dc_coeff(say has 0 value in all coeff). >The other bitstream which does't make microsft codec obeys the >same sequence. > >And I read 14496-2:2001,this represents as follows: > > 7.4.1.4 Intra dc coefficient decoding for the case of >switched encoding > > At the VOP layer,using quantizer value as the >threshold,a 3 bit code(intra_dc_vlc_thr) allows switching > between 2VLCs(DC Intra VLC and AC Intra VLC)when >decoding DC coefficients of Intra macroblocks,see Table > 6-21. > > NOTE When the intra AC VLC is turned on,IntraDC >coefficients are not handled separately any more,but > treated the same as all other coefficients.That means >that a zero Intra DC coefficient will not be coded > but will simply increase the run for the following AC >coefficients.The definitions of mcbpc and cbpy in > subclause 6.3.6 are changed accordingly. > > > What does it(mcbpc and cbpy in subclause 6.3.6 are changed >accordingly) represents ? It is that (CBP==1) -> (CBP==0) > or (CBP==1) -> (CBP==0),or (Intra MB) -> (Inter MB) ? I can't >judge correct sequence(for my lack of English kowledge? >(TT) ). > Which is sequence correct? > >Bye, Tetsuo Kosuge > > > >>Kosuge-San, >> >>intra_vlc_format is function of intra_dc_vlc_thr and qp. >>if intra_vlc_format = 1 and mbintra = 1 ==> dc value is >encoded using ac >>table (table B-16). >>last need not to be zero. run is always zero for this, as >this is the first >>element. >>i think, escape code should be used if it falls outside the >table range. >> >>Warm Regards, >>Gautam >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: tetsuo kosuge [mailto:kosuge@td.idc.lsi.sanyo.co.jp] >>>Sent: Friday, February 21, 2024 10:14 AM >>>To: Technotes@lists.m4if.org >>>Subject: [M4IF Technotes] question about intra_dc_vlc_thr2 >>> >>> >>>Dear: MPEG-4 Experts >>> >>>Thanks to answer my previous question, Mr.Gautam. >>>I can understand. >>> >>>I have one more question. >>>If Intra MB which over Intra_dc_thr and block pattern_code == >>>0, in this case dc_coeff is also derived from Intra VLC ? >>>If derive from Intra VLC, is always LAST and RUN 0 ? And do >>>exist ESC ? >>> >>>bye >>> Tetsuo Kosuge >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Technotes mailing list >>>Technotes@lists.m4if.org >>>http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Technotes mailing list >>Technotes@lists.m4if.org >>http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes >> > From Ramachandranv myw.ltindia.com Mon Feb 24 15:07:36 2003 From: Ramachandranv myw.ltindia.com (Ramachandran V) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:47 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Switches for MPEG4 AAC Message-ID: Hello All, I am working on developing a Non Scalable Encoder/Decoder for Mpeg4 AAC (Low Profile). I have been facing some problems with the switches in the command line of the Verification Model for the same. Can anybody share the switches for a Low Profile Non Scalable AAC. Also the switches for converting .fl4 to mp4 using mptools.dsw. Thanking in Advance, Ramachandran. Associate Software Engineer, Larsen & Toubro Limited. From Alf.Rieckmann mobilesmartsinc.com Mon Feb 24 10:52:33 2003 From: Alf.Rieckmann mobilesmartsinc.com (Alf Rieckmann) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:47 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Standard version for simple profile? References: Message-ID: <3E5A69F1.3040000@mobilesmartsinc.com> OK, Is it necessary to test these features and if yes, are there updated simple profile test streams as described in "4.5.8 Bitstream Donated by MPEG-4 Platform Verification Bitstream Development Project"? Thanks for help again. Alf Lefan Zhong wrote: >The changes are very few, but it is better to get the newest version. > >For example, in 1999 version you cannot add any stuffing Macroblock for H.263, since the document didn't claim that stuffing Macroblock shouldn't increase the Macroblock count. The 2001 version claimed that. > >Lefan > >-----Original Message----- >From: Alf Rieckmann [mailto:Alf.Rieckmann@mobilesmartsinc.com] >Sent: Friday, February 21, 2024 3:39 PM >To: technotes@lists.m4if.org >Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Standard version for simple profile? > > >Hello everybody, >I was wondering if the 14496-2:1999 version represents the latest simple >profile syntax or if there are any changes for which I would need a >newer version of the standard. I am not interested in advanced simple >profile. >Thanks for help >Regards >Alf > > >_______________________________________________ >Technotes mailing list >Technotes@lists.m4if.org >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > > From guraaf yahoo.co.in Tue Feb 25 18:38:13 2003 From: guraaf yahoo.co.in (Gaurav Aggarwal) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:47 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question ablout Error_Resilient_Disable In-Reply-To: <006801c2d974$017c43f0$230000c0@ssurui> Message-ID: <002a01c2dcce$f3d2b000$7810840a@blr.broadcom.com> Where did you get to know that such a flag exists? If there is no such flag in the syntax document, then it doesn't exists. I see that various error resilience tools use their independent enable flags like: data_partitioned, reversible_vlc, header_extension_code etc. Right? Or am I missing something? Gaurav -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of ssurui Sent: Friday, February 21, 2024 12:09 PM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question ablout Error_Resilient_Disable Hi all: I have a quest ablout Error_Resilient_Disable flags. I can't find this flags in MPEG-4 syntaxs and can't find its meaning in Semantics. But I think this flag is useful. please tell me why? Thanks a lot ssurui -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030225/2db986f6/attachment.html From gchandra tataelxsi.co.in Tue Feb 25 19:51:01 2003 From: gchandra tataelxsi.co.in (Chandra Sekhar Reddy G) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:47 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question ablout Error_Resilient_Disable References: <002a01c2dcce$f3d2b000$7810840a@blr.broadcom.com> Message-ID: <001a01c2dcd9$1fe68450$b514010a@gchandra> Hi, There are three possibilities (I know) for this: Possibility-1: ------------------ From vmorais inescporto.pt Tue Feb 25 18:21:17 2003 From: vmorais inescporto.pt (Vagner Morais) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Microsoft Encoder Message-ID: <00f401c2dd3d$be2c6800$611875c2@gauss> Anyone knows if the codec Microsoft MPEG-4 supports RGB files, or only support YUV? Thanks by your attention -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030225/88287435/attachment.html From yongwang_2001 yahoo.com Tue Feb 25 10:36:34 2003 From: yongwang_2001 yahoo.com (Yong wang) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] transporting mpeg4 es over mpeg2 ts In-Reply-To: <002a01c2dcce$f3d2b000$7810840a@blr.broadcom.com> Message-ID: <20030225183634.67508.qmail@web14901.mail.yahoo.com> Dear Experts, I'm looking for papers or project presentations about transporting MPEG-4 Content transport over MPEG-2 Transport Stream (DVB). Could anybody tell me some resources on this topic? Thank you very mcuh! Yong Wang __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From lzm02 mails.tsinghua.edu.cn Wed Feb 26 14:18:03 2003 From: lzm02 mails.tsinghua.edu.cn (Li Zhengming) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] About vop_coded! Message-ID: <000a01c2dd5e$d1e9cce0$99496fa6@automatihc6u4i> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 15492 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030226/d7f1fa07/attachment.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 3781 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030226/d7f1fa07/attachment.jpeg From Lefan mediaq.com Wed Feb 26 12:57:09 2003 From: Lefan mediaq.com (Lefan Zhong) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] The Compression Efficiency Benchmark Message-ID: Hi folks, Does anyone know any articles about the compression efficiency of MPEG-4 profiles? I am interested in comparison of Simple, Advance Simple and AVC. Thank you. Lefan From i.g.richardson rgu.ac.uk Thu Feb 27 08:45:53 2003 From: i.g.richardson rgu.ac.uk (Iain Richardson (ensigr)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: transporting mpeg4 es over mpeg2 ts Message-ID: <9B4C0CE0F5BE4E4F83226707BFA0D1B4C42527@EXVS001.rgu.ac.uk> Dear Yong Wang This is covered in Chapter 7 of The MPEG-4 Book, Pereira and Ebrahimi, ISBN 0-13-061621-4 Regards Iain Richardson Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2024 10:36:34 -0800 (PST) From: Yong wang To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] transporting mpeg4 es over mpeg2 ts Dear Experts, I'm looking for papers or project presentations about transporting MPEG-4 Content transport over MPEG-2 Transport Stream (DVB). Could anybody tell me some resources on this topic? Thank you very mcuh! Yong Wang --- Dr Iain E G Richardson Lecturer and Researcher School of Engineering, The Robert Gordon University, Aberdeen, UK Tel +44 1224 262320; Fax +44 1224 262444 i.g.richardson@rgu.ac.uk www.rgu.ac.uk/eng/ict/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 27/01/2024 From squear gmx.de Thu Feb 27 14:53:40 2003 From: squear gmx.de (Sebastian Voigt) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Standard for content-description Message-ID: <001c01c2de67$a5475b30$9002a8c0@baphomet> Hello There are different formats for textual scenedescription, XMT, scene+script/mux and bt-format. XMT is defined in standard, but what's with the other formats? They are standardized or not? If yes, in what paper can I find Informations about? best regards Sebastian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030227/0f238204/attachment.html From mikael sevenier.com Thu Feb 27 09:28:00 2003 From: mikael sevenier.com (Mikael Bourges-Sevenier) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Standard for content-description In-Reply-To: <001c01c2de67$a5475b30$9002a8c0@baphomet> Message-ID: <003501c2de85$9736e8d0$6601a8c0@merlin> Dear Sebastian, XMT is the only textual format recognized by MPEG-4. It is primarily intended for authoring. The other formats are there for historical reasons: BT, scene+script etc. are proprietary extensions of VRML 2.0 format but do not conform to VRML syntax. Because of these incompatibilities and for other goodies provided by XML, XMT was developed. For the little history, XMT is based on X3D compromise DTD, which is nothing else than VRML 2.0 in XML... Kind regards, Mike -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of Sebastian Voigt Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2024 5:54 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Standard for content-description Hello There are different formats for textual scenedescription, XMT, scene+script/mux and bt-format. XMT is defined in standard, but what's with the other formats? They are standardized or not? If yes, in what paper can I find Informations about? best regards Sebastian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030227/f5833f1d/attachment.html From i.g.richardson rgu.ac.uk Thu Feb 27 18:02:09 2003 From: i.g.richardson rgu.ac.uk (Iain Richardson (ensigr)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) Message-ID: <9B4C0CE0F5BE4E4F83226707BFA0D1B4C42539@EXVS001.rgu.ac.uk> Hello Try the following paper for a comparison of H.26L (AVC) with ASP: P Topiwala, G Sullivan, A Joch and F Kossentini, "Performance evaluation of H.26L TML8 vs. H.263++ and MPEG-4", ITU-T Q.6/SG16 VCEG-N18, September 2001 You can get this from the web site: http://standards.pictel.com/ftp/video-site/ Regards Iain Richardson. Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2024 12:57:09 -0800 From: "Lefan Zhong" To: Subject: [M4IF Technotes] The Compression Efficiency Benchmark Hi folks, Does anyone know any articles about the compression efficiency of MPEG-4 profiles? I am interested in comparison of Simple, Advance Simple and AVC. Thank you. Lefan --- Dr Iain E G Richardson Lecturer and Researcher School of Engineering, The Robert Gordon University, Aberdeen, UK Tel +44 1224 262320; Fax +44 1224 262444 i.g.richardson@rgu.ac.uk www.rgu.ac.uk/eng/ict/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 27/01/2024 From ben interframemedia.com Thu Feb 27 11:49:45 2003 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] HD decoders? Message-ID: Folks, I'm on a panel about HD at NAB this year. http://www.nab.org/conventions/nab2003/sessiondetail.asp?id=1201583 As part of the presentation, I want to be able to demo HD MPEG-4 (at least 1280x720, and ideally 1920x1080). Can be SP, ASP, 264, or ideally all of them (but I'll take SP if nothing else). Does anyone have Mac/Win based software decoder that can pull this off? I gather we'll have access to a beefy machine. If not, any other good, portable MPEG-4 HD decode solutions I could use in the session? I'll happily credit the vendor in the presentation. Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding My Book: Cleaner e-book: Compression Classes at Stanford June 30-July 4 and Aug 11-15 From Gerardo.Rosiles motorola.com Thu Feb 27 13:25:59 2003 From: Gerardo.Rosiles motorola.com (Rosiles Gerardo-ra9355) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) Message-ID: <6728517EECE7D511981B00D0B78290310355ED9A@az33exm27.corp.mot.com> You can also look at the last 10 slides of this presentation. http://www.m4if.org/wemp2002/downloads/ajay_avc_wemp_m4if.pdf More or less the same conclusions can be reached (assuming the two studies are independent). There is not a SP vs. (ASP,AVC) comparison in neither of the references provided. This is a reference for ASP vs. SP Performance of MPEG-4 Profiles used for streaming video Luthra, A.; Gandhi, R.; Panusopone, K.; Mckoen, K.; Baylon, D.; Limin Wang; MPEG-4. 2001 Proceedings of Workshop and Exhibition on , 2001 Page(s): 103 -106 You can get this paper from the IEEExplore. Regards, Gerardo Gerardo Rosiles - Advanced Solutions Group 32-bit Embedded Controller Division, Motorola -----Original Message----- From: Iain Richardson (ensigr) [mailto:i.g.richardson@rgu.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2024 12:02 PM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) Hello Try the following paper for a comparison of H.26L (AVC) with ASP: P Topiwala, G Sullivan, A Joch and F Kossentini, "Performance evaluation of H.26L TML8 vs. H.263++ and MPEG-4", ITU-T Q.6/SG16 VCEG-N18, September 2001 You can get this from the web site: http://standards.pictel.com/ftp/video-site/ Regards Iain Richardson. Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2024 12:57:09 -0800 From: "Lefan Zhong" To: Subject: [M4IF Technotes] The Compression Efficiency Benchmark Hi folks, Does anyone know any articles about the compression efficiency of MPEG-4 profiles? I am interested in comparison of Simple, Advance Simple and AVC. Thank you. Lefan --- Dr Iain E G Richardson Lecturer and Researcher School of Engineering, The Robert Gordon University, Aberdeen, UK Tel +44 1224 262320; Fax +44 1224 262444 i.g.richardson@rgu.ac.uk www.rgu.ac.uk/eng/ict/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 27/01/2024 _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From wmdeneve elis.rug.ac.be Thu Feb 27 22:05:52 2003 From: wmdeneve elis.rug.ac.be (Wesley De Neve) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] HD decoders? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Ben, On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Ben Waggoner wrote: > Folks, > > I'm on a panel about HD at NAB this year. > > http://www.nab.org/conventions/nab2003/sessiondetail.asp?id=1201583 > > As part of the presentation, I want to be able to demo HD MPEG-4 (at > least 1280x720, and ideally 1920x1080). Can be SP, ASP, 264, or ideally all > of them (but I'll take SP if nothing else). Does anyone have Mac/Win based > software decoder that can pull this off? I gather we'll have access to a > beefy machine. If not, any other good, portable MPEG-4 HD decode solutions > I could use in the session? I'll happily credit the vendor in the > presentation. I've once done this experiment for fun with the MPEG-4 codec of QuickTime (for a test sequence of 600 frames with a resolution of 1280x720, YUV 4:2:0). It worked but I don't want to know all the rules I was violating then ;-). The only thing you have to worry about is getting the YUV samples in the mov file format. I've written some code for that but I guess there are also other solutions. The reference software for H.264/MPEG-4 AVC should also be able to deal with that. With kind regards, Wesley De Neve -- Ghent University ELIS/Multimedia Lab From trbarry trbarry.com Thu Feb 27 16:52:41 2003 From: trbarry trbarry.com (trbarry@trbarry.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] HD decoders? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01c2deaa$8d389f20$0400a8c0@com.robot> Why not just download Divx or Xvid, both free MPEG-4 encoders. Either of them can create these files from most any PC file sources, though playing 1080p at full speed is probably hard. - Tom | -----Original Message----- | From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org | [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Wesley De Neve | Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2024 4:06 PM | To: Ben Waggoner | Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org | Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] HD decoders? | | | Dear Ben, | | On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Ben Waggoner wrote: | | > Folks, | > | > I'm on a panel about HD at NAB this year. | > | > http://www.nab.org/conventions/nab2003/sessiondetail.asp?id=1201583 | > | > As part of the presentation, I want to be able to demo | HD MPEG-4 (at | > least 1280x720, and ideally 1920x1080). Can be SP, ASP, | 264, or ideally all | > of them (but I'll take SP if nothing else). Does anyone | have Mac/Win based | > software decoder that can pull this off? I gather we'll | have access to a | > beefy machine. If not, any other good, portable MPEG-4 HD | decode solutions | > I could use in the session? I'll happily credit the vendor in the | > presentation. | | I've once done this experiment for fun with the MPEG-4 codec | of QuickTime | (for a test sequence of 600 frames with a resolution of 1280x720, YUV | 4:2:0). It worked but I don't want to know all the rules I | was violating | then ;-). The only thing you have to worry about is getting the YUV | samples in the mov file format. I've written some code for that but I | guess there are also other solutions. | | The reference software for H.264/MPEG-4 AVC should also be | able to deal | with that. | | With kind regards, | Wesley De Neve | | -- | Ghent University | ELIS/Multimedia Lab | | | | _______________________________________________ | Technotes mailing list | Technotes@lists.m4if.org | http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes | From ben interframemedia.com Thu Feb 27 14:12:23 2003 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] HD decoders? In-Reply-To: <000d01c2deaa$8d389f20$0400a8c0@com.robot> Message-ID: Tom, Encoding isn't a problem. I'm using Sorenson Squeeze, which can make compliant HD MPEG-4 without breaking a sweat. It's the decode that's a problem. I don't want to do a DivX decode, since it isn't pure MPEG-4. Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding My Book: Cleaner e-book: Compression Classes at Stanford June 30-July 4 and Aug 11-15 on 2/27/03 1:52 PM, trbarry@trbarry.com at trbarry@trbarry.com wrote: > Why not just download Divx or Xvid, both free MPEG-4 encoders. Either of > them can create these files from most any PC file sources, though > playing 1080p at full speed is probably hard. From Gerardo.Rosiles motorola.com Thu Feb 27 15:31:07 2003 From: Gerardo.Rosiles motorola.com (Rosiles Gerardo-ra9355) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] HD decoders? Message-ID: <6728517EECE7D511981B00D0B78290310355ED9C@az33exm27.corp.mot.com> Can't you turn off all the extra features that DivX uses for differentiation? Anyways you'll need to do some type of pre-/post- processing regardless of what codec you choose. Or another way to place the question. WHAT makes DivX not "pure" MPEG-4??? Gerardo Rosiles - Advanced Solutions Group 32-bit Embedded Controller Division, Motorola -----Original Message----- From: Ben Waggoner [mailto:ben@interframemedia.com] Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2024 4:12 PM To: trbarry@trbarry.com; Wesley.DeNeve@rug.ac.be Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] HD decoders? Tom, Encoding isn't a problem. I'm using Sorenson Squeeze, which can make compliant HD MPEG-4 without breaking a sweat. It's the decode that's a problem. I don't want to do a DivX decode, since it isn't pure MPEG-4. Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding My Book: Cleaner e-book: Compression Classes at Stanford June 30-July 4 and Aug 11-15 on 2/27/03 1:52 PM, trbarry@trbarry.com at trbarry@trbarry.com wrote: > Why not just download Divx or Xvid, both free MPEG-4 encoders. Either of > them can create these files from most any PC file sources, though > playing 1080p at full speed is probably hard. _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From egrab divxnetworks.com Thu Feb 27 14:42:23 2003 From: egrab divxnetworks.com (Eric Grab) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] HD decoders? Message-ID: <92800BEF04DB704192951C1A407CD91D720823@mrsmith.divxnetworks.com> The DivX 5.03 encoder and decoder are indeed compatible with MPEG-4 Simple Profile and Advanced Simple Profile video. The bonus is that the DivX decoder will decode other formats, such as version 3.11, which is not MPEG-4. Is there a video stream you cannot decode with DivX 5.03? -- Eric Grab, DivXNetworks -----Original Message----- From: Rosiles Gerardo-ra9355 [mailto:Gerardo.Rosiles@motorola.com] Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2024 2:31 PM To: 'Ben Waggoner'; trbarry@trbarry.com; Wesley.DeNeve@rug.ac.be Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] HD decoders? Can't you turn off all the extra features that DivX uses for differentiation? Anyways you'll need to do some type of pre-/post- processing regardless of what codec you choose. Or another way to place the question. WHAT makes DivX not "pure" MPEG-4??? Gerardo Rosiles - Advanced Solutions Group 32-bit Embedded Controller Division, Motorola -----Original Message----- From: Ben Waggoner [mailto:ben@interframemedia.com] Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2024 4:12 PM To: trbarry@trbarry.com; Wesley.DeNeve@rug.ac.be Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] HD decoders? Tom, Encoding isn't a problem. I'm using Sorenson Squeeze, which can make compliant HD MPEG-4 without breaking a sweat. It's the decode that's a problem. I don't want to do a DivX decode, since it isn't pure MPEG-4. Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding My Book: Cleaner e-book: Compression Classes at Stanford June 30-July 4 and Aug 11-15 on 2/27/03 1:52 PM, trbarry@trbarry.com at trbarry@trbarry.com wrote: > Why not just download Divx or Xvid, both free MPEG-4 encoders. Either of > them can create these files from most any PC file sources, though > playing 1080p at full speed is probably hard. _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From ben interframemedia.com Thu Feb 27 15:15:30 2003 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] HD decoders? In-Reply-To: <92800BEF04DB704192951C1A407CD91D720823@mrsmith.divxnetworks.com> Message-ID: Eric, I thought your decoder couldn't do AC-3 audio from a .mp4. Correct me if I'm wrong - your video decoder certainly has adequate performance for the demo I want to give. My backup plan was to use 5.0.3 without audio if I couldn't find anything that could do straight up .mp4. Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding My Book: Cleaner e-book: Compression Classes at Stanford June 30-July 4 and Aug 11-15 on 2/27/03 2:42 PM, Eric Grab at egrab@divxnetworks.com wrote: > The DivX 5.03 encoder and decoder are indeed compatible with MPEG-4 Simple > Profile and Advanced Simple Profile video. The bonus is that the DivX decoder > will decode other formats, such as version 3.11, which is not MPEG-4. Is > there a video stream you cannot decode with DivX 5.03? From rob.koenen m4if.org Thu Feb 27 15:21:15 2003 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] HD decoders? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59016BF235@exchange.epr.com> What's AC-3 got to do with MP4? Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Waggoner [mailto:ben@interframemedia.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2024 3:16 PM > To: Eric Grab; Rosiles Gerardo-ra9355; trbarry@trbarry.com; > Wesley.DeNeve@rug.ac.be > Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] HD decoders? > > > Eric, > > I thought your decoder couldn't do AC-3 audio from a > .mp4. Correct me if I'm wrong - your video decoder certainly > has adequate performance for the demo I want to give. My > backup plan was to use 5.0.3 without audio if I couldn't find > anything that could do straight up .mp4. > > > Ben Waggoner > Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding > > My Book: > Cleaner e-book: > > Compression Classes at Stanford June 30-July 4 and Aug 11-15 > n.html> > > > > on > 2/27/03 2:42 PM, Eric Grab at > egrab@divxnetworks.com wrote: > > > The DivX 5.03 encoder and decoder are indeed compatible with MPEG-4 > > Simple Profile and Advanced Simple Profile video. The > bonus is that > > the DivX decoder will decode other formats, such as version 3.11, > > which is not MPEG-4. Is there a video stream you cannot > decode with > > DivX 5.03? > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technot> es > From ben interframemedia.com Thu Feb 27 15:27:27 2003 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] HD decoders? In-Reply-To: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59016BF235@exchange.epr.com> Message-ID: Rob, Nothing :). My brain meant to type AAC-LC, but somehow my fingers got confused. That'll teach me to talk about MPEG-4 on days when I'm working on DVD. Anyway, what I want to be able to do is play a .mp4 file with SP or ASP video at 1280x720 or 1920x1080, with two channel AAC-LC audio. Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding My Book: Cleaner e-book: Compression Classes at Stanford June 30-July 4 and Aug 11-15 on 2/27/03 3:21 PM, Rob Koenen at rob.koenen@m4if.org wrote: > What's AC-3 got to do with MP4? From chl math.uni-bonn.de Fri Feb 28 00:44:41 2003 From: chl math.uni-bonn.de (Christoph Lampert) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] HD decoders? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Ben Waggoner wrote: > Tom, > > Encoding isn't a problem. I'm using Sorenson Squeeze, which can make > compliant HD MPEG-4 without breaking a sweat. It's the decode that's a > problem. I don't want to do a DivX decode, since it isn't pure MPEG-4. LGPL'ed ffmpeg/ffdshow (ffmpeg.sf.net) might be the tool of your choice. It decodes MPEG-4 ASP and is indeed faster than DivX. XviD decodes MPEG-4 ASP, too, but might be slightly slower. Christoph From ben interframemedia.com Thu Feb 27 15:58:54 2003 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] HD decoders? In-Reply-To: <6728517EECE7D511981B00D0B78290310355ED9C@az33exm27.corp.mot.com> Message-ID: Rosiles, The video codec itself is pure MPEG-4. However, the standard .divx file format is really AVI with typically MP3 audio. DivX 5.0.2 could render a video only .mp4, but this was removed from 5.0.3 for some compatibility reason. I'm not sure what the playback status of it, but last I checked The Playa didn't do ISO .mp4 with audio. Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding My Book: Cleaner e-book: Compression Classes at Stanford June 30-July 4 and Aug 11-15 on 2/27/03 2:31 PM, Rosiles Gerardo-ra9355 at Gerardo.Rosiles@motorola.com wrote: > Can't you turn off all the extra features that DivX uses for differentiation? > Anyways you'll need to do some type of pre-/post- processing regardless of > what codec you choose. > > Or another way to place the question. WHAT makes DivX not "pure" MPEG-4??? From zhweizh mailst.xjtu.edu.cn Fri Feb 28 08:42:55 2003 From: zhweizh mailst.xjtu.edu.cn (zhweizh) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] *.par file in MS-FGS5? Message-ID: <200302280043.h1S0hUC24949@lists1.magma.ca> Hi, everyone, Now, when I code a *.yuv file by MS-FGS5, I find I get wrong result if alpha file is set to Binary, I donnot know why. If is the *.par file wrong? 　　 　　　　　　　 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　zhweizh 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　zhweizh@mailst.xjtu.edu.cn 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　2003-02-28 From zhweizh mailst.xjtu.edu.cn Fri Feb 28 11:34:59 2003 From: zhweizh mailst.xjtu.edu.cn (zhweizh) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] why MS-FGS5 donnot work? Message-ID: <200302280335.h1S3ZZC03956@lists1.magma.ca> Hi, Now, when I code a *.yuv file by MS-FGS5, I find I get wrong result with alpha file set to Binary, I donnot know why. If is the *.par file wrong? 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　zhweizh 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　zhweizh@mailst.xjtu.edu.cn 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　2003-02-28 From mihir ti.com Fri Feb 28 10:00:45 2003 From: mihir ti.com (Mody, Mihir) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 3GPP movie files Message-ID: Hi, Does anybody know where to get 3PP movie file containing H.263 video and AMR-NB speech? Best Regards, Mihir Mody, Imaging and Audio group, Texas Instruments Inc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030228/d3fa125a/attachment.html From ramki emuzed.com Fri Feb 28 10:27:19 2003 From: ramki emuzed.com (Ramkishor Korada) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 3GPP movie files References: Message-ID: <02d901c2dee5$e5a666c0$1b0aa8c0@blr.emuzed.com> 3GPP movie filesHi Mhir, Check the following link http://www.digitalnetworks.philips.com/InformationCenter/Global/FArticleSummary.asp?lNodeId=863&channel=863&channelId=N863A2283 regards, ramkishor Architect - Video Multimedia Technologies Division Emuzed India Bangalore www.emuzed.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Mody, Mihir To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Sent: Friday, February 28, 2024 10:00 AM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 3GPP movie files Hi, Does anybody know where to get 3PP movie file containing H.263 video and AMR-NB speech? Best Regards, Mihir Mody, Imaging and Audio group, Texas Instruments Inc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030228/81c58298/attachment.html From jan.devos 3ivx.com Fri Feb 28 16:19:03 2003 From: jan.devos 3ivx.com (Jan Devos) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] HD decoders? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <26FED6FA-4ADC-11D7-B932-003065BF88D0@3ivx.com> Ben, 3ivx D4 is capable of handling 1280x720 and 1920x1080 sized footage both in the encoder as well as in the decoder. http://www.3ivx.com/ If you use Simple Profile compliant video you can use both the 3ivx D4 codec for QuickTime as well as a combination of the 3ivx Video Decoding filter, the 3ivx MP4 Media Splitter and the 3ivx AAC Audio Decoder for DirectShow. http://www.3ivx.com/download/ The QuickTime mp4 parser that Apple currently uses has some problems with Advanced Simple Profile video, so you might want to use the DirectShow filters for playback or use .mov as the file format instead. Regards, Jan On Friday, February 28, 2003, at 10:27 AM, Ben Waggoner wrote: > I'm on a panel about HD at NAB this year. > > http://www.nab.org/conventions/nab2003/sessiondetail.asp?id=1201583 > > As part of the presentation, I want to be able to demo HD MPEG-4 > (at > least 1280x720, and ideally 1920x1080). Can be SP, ASP, 264, or > ideally all > of them (but I'll take SP if nothing else). Does anyone have Mac/Win > based > software decoder that can pull this off? I gather we'll have access > to a > beefy machine. If not, any other good, portable MPEG-4 HD decode > solutions > I could use in the session? I'll happily credit the vendor in the > presentation. --- Jan Devos President 3ivx Technologies - Happy Machines n.v. mailto:jan.devos@3ivx.com - http://www.3ivx.com Australian Ph.: +61-2-9918-4613 - Mob.: +61-421-762-378 From zhenzhongc hotmail.com Fri Feb 28 13:26:35 2003 From: zhenzhongc hotmail.com (Zhenzhong CHEN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] why MS-FGS5 donnot work? References: <200302280335.h1S3ZZC03956@lists1.magma.ca> Message-ID: It seems that you don't have a alpha file. Regards, Zhenzhong ----- Original Message ----- From: "zhweizh" To: Sent: Friday, February 28, 2024 11:34 AM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] why MS-FGS5 donnot work? > Hi, > > Now, when I code a *.yuv file by MS-FGS5, I find I get wrong result with alpha file set to Binary, I donnot know why. If is the *.par file wrong? > > > > 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　zhweizh > 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　zhweizh@mailst.xjtu.edu.cn > 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　2003-02-28 > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From rob.koenen m4if.org Thu Feb 27 22:22:43 2003 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] FW: New SD and HD test sequences available Message-ID: <3C124172E7FDD511B510000347426D59016BF247@exchange.epr.com> This was inadvertently sent to technotes-admin, but is interesting enough to forward to the list! -----Original Message----- From: Tobias Oelbaum [mailto:oelbaum@ei.tum.de] Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2024 2:15 AM To: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org Subject: New SD and HD test sequences available This is to announce that some new sequences are available via anonymous ftp at ftp://ftp.ldv.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de/pub/test_sequences/ You can find sample images and a short description of the sequences at https://www.ldv.ei.tum.de/liquid.php?page=70 . Credits go to Teracom/SVT (and especially to Marie) for the sequences called "Knightshields" and "StockholmPan". As the other two sequences from Teracom/SVT ("New Mobile & Calendar" and "Parkrun") these sequences are available at different scanning standards and different resolutions. There is also an input document to the 64.MPEG meeting in Pattaya containing a description of this two new sequences (document number: 9420). The other two new sequences ("Station" and "Riverbed") come from the set produced by Taurus Media Technik. If too many of you start downloading the sequences right now, the server will be quite slow for the next few days. Last time we had really heavy traffic for the first two days, and next to nothing afterwards. So if things are going too slow, just wait some days and come back by then. Comments to any of the sequences are welcome! Regards Tobias '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' Dipl. Ing. Tobias Oelbaum ' Institute for Data Processing Lehrstuhl f?r Datenverarbeitung ' Munich University of Technology Technische Universit?t M?nchen ' ' EMail: oelbaum@ei.tum.de ' Tel: +49 89 289 23625 ' Fax: +49 89 289 23600 ' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' From john.arthur octaga.com Fri Feb 28 08:28:53 2003 From: john.arthur octaga.com (John Arthur) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Transport of MPEG-4 SL Packets (Bifs and ODs) over HTTP and IP Message-ID: Hello, I've read many times in various places (including the recent MPEG-4 White Paper) that a method of transport of MPEG-4 streams over IP and HTTP has been defined [by MPEG and IETF I assume]. However the only documentation I can find only specifies transport over RTP. Does anyone have any pointers as to where I can find documentation for transport over general IP and HTTP? I am especially interested in the transport of Bifs and OD SL Packets, and a common way of mapping SL Packet Header info for protocols other than RTP, so as to ensure interoperability for these protocols. Thanks in advance for any pointers and info. Best regards John Arthur *************************************************************** John K. Arthur Chief Technology Officer Octaga Tel:- direct: +47 97 03 33 82; Fax: +47 23 00 91 28 e-mail: john.arthur@octaga.com web: http://www.octaga.com *************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030228/163e2626/attachment.html From mihir ti.com Fri Feb 28 14:16:36 2003 From: mihir ti.com (Mody, Mihir) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 3GPP movie files Message-ID: Ramki, The site has very few files. Do you know other site to get more files for testing? Regards, Mihir -----Original Message----- From: Ramkishor Korada [mailto:ramki@emuzed.com] Sent: Friday, February 28, 2024 10:27 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] 3GPP movie files Hi Mhir, Check the following link http://www.digitalnetworks.philips.com/InformationCenter/Global/FArticleSumm ary.asp?lNodeId=863 &channel=863&channelId=N863A2283 regards, ramkishor Architect - Video Multimedia Technologies Division Emuzed India Bangalore www.emuzed.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Mody, Mihir To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Sent: Friday, February 28, 2024 10:00 AM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 3GPP movie files Hi, Does anybody know where to get 3PP movie file containing H.263 video and AMR-NB speech? Best Regards, Mihir Mody, Imaging and Audio group, Texas Instruments Inc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030228/c6174430/attachment.html From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Fri Feb 28 12:10:19 2003 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Transport of MPEG-4 SL Packets (Bifs and ODs) over HTTP and IP Message-ID: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC101021CE363@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> Hi John, I've read many times in various places (including the recent MPEG-4 White Paper) that a method of transport of MPEG-4 streams over IP and HTTP has been defined [by MPEG and IETF I assume]. However the only documentation I can find only specifies transport over RTP. Does anyone have any pointers as to where I can find documentation for transport over general IP and HTTP? I am especially interested in the transport of Bifs and OD SL Packets, and a common way of mapping SL Packet Header info for protocols other than RTP, so as to ensure interoperability for these protocols. If you use HTTP, I don't think you need to standardize anything, you just download your MP4 file and play it. If you are smart enough you can do some progressive download so that you can play your file before it is completly received. Concerning streaming over IP, I guess you mean UDP/IP, you can use MPEG-4 SLpacketized streams over UDP. Session description is not standardize but for streaming people generally just use RTP. What are exactly your requirements ? cu, O. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030228/be598dc7/attachment.html From robert.weetman kodak.com Fri Feb 28 07:45:53 2003 From: robert.weetman kodak.com (robert.weetman@kodak.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] SVG and MPEG-4 Message-ID: I am learning about SVG (scalable vector graphics) and came across the website of a company that is developing SVG related tools: http://www.vectavision.com/Technology.html The site claims: "MPEG 4: The SVG layer in MPEG4 allows all the benefits of SVG to exist within this motion picture format." I know very little about MPEG-4 and I'm trying to understand what this means. Browsing through specs and googling hasn't enlightened me much. I have emailed the company but have not received a timely response. Is there an "SVG Layer" in MPEG-4? Perhaps the company simply phrased this poorly. Any suggestions on what the company might really be trying to say? Thanks for any help. Buzz Weetman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030228/638212a8/attachment.html From john.arthur octaga.com Fri Feb 28 14:46:51 2003 From: john.arthur octaga.com (John Arthur) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Transport of MPEG-4 SL Packets (Bifs and ODs) over HTTP and IP In-Reply-To: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC101021CE363@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> Message-ID: <001701c2df2f$d95c5880$7001a8c0@Dantooine> Hello Olivier, Our current implementation uses RTP (over UDP/IP) for BIFS SL Packets but packet loss is a real headache, so I'm looking for an interoperable TCP/IP solution. Since we are talking about an MPEG-4 MU server, sending on-the-fly, dynamic scene information which may vary according to clients characteristics, I can't just send the content as a pre-generated mp4 file. It seems that HTTP would not be appropriate for sending the raw IOD, ODs and BIFS streams unless you defined specific MIME types for all types of MPEG-4 streams, this seems a little long-winded. The question is therefore: is there a pre-defined, interoperable way to pack SL header data into a TCP/IP transmission, without using the RTP mapping already defined (since this assumes use of RTP)? If not do we need one? Best regards John -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN Sent: 28 February 2024 12:10 To: john.arthur@octaga.com; technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Transport of MPEG-4 SL Packets (Bifs and ODs) over HTTP and IP Hi John, I've read many times in various places (including the recent MPEG-4 White Paper) that a method of transport of MPEG-4 streams over IP and HTTP has been defined [by MPEG and IETF I assume]. However the only documentation I can find only specifies transport over RTP. Does anyone have any pointers as to where I can find documentation for transport over general IP and HTTP? I am especially interested in the transport of Bifs and OD SL Packets, and a common way of mapping SL Packet Header info for protocols other than RTP, so as to ensure interoperability for these protocols. If you use HTTP, I don't think you need to standardize anything, you just download your MP4 file and play it. If you are smart enough you can do some progressive download so that you can play your file before it is completly received. Concerning streaming over IP, I guess you mean UDP/IP, you can use MPEG-4 SLpacketized streams over UDP. Session description is not standardize but for streaming people generally just use RTP. What are exactly your requirements ? cu, O. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030228/ce62fd58/attachment.html From olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com Fri Feb 28 15:52:58 2003 From: olivier.avaro rd.francetelecom.com (AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] SVG and MPEG-4 Message-ID: <571B06D35309794BA9204B5A090CC101021CE3C0@lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr> Dear Buzz, MPEG-4 does not support W3C SVG but there is indeed in the MPEG-4 standard a Scalable Vector Graphics format . The MPEG-4 BIFS (binary format for scene representation) specification provides a format for representation of scalable vector graphics (2D and 3D) with animation, interaction, streaming, compression, synchronization with audio and video, and much more ... I think this company meant that the MPEG-4 spec. provides all you need in terms of SVG. Which is right. Kind regards, Olivier -----Message d'origine----- De : robert.weetman@kodak.com [mailto:robert.weetman@kodak.com] Envoye : vendredi 28 fevrier 2003 13:46 A : technotes@lists.m4if.org Objet : [M4IF Technotes] SVG and MPEG-4 I am learning about SVG (scalable vector graphics) and came across the website of a company that is developing SVG related tools: http://www.vectavision.com/Technology.html The site claims: "MPEG 4: The SVG layer in MPEG4 allows all the benefits of SVG to exist within this motion picture format." I know very little about MPEG-4 and I'm trying to understand what this means. Browsing through specs and googling hasn't enlightened me much. I have emailed the company but have not received a timely response. Is there an "SVG Layer" in MPEG-4? Perhaps the company simply phrased this poorly. Any suggestions on what the company might really be trying to say? Thanks for any help. Buzz Weetman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030228/717eaaa3/attachment.html From the_ether btinternet.com Fri Feb 28 15:14:05 2003 From: the_ether btinternet.com (the_ether) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Transport of MPEG-4 SL Packets (Bifs and ODs) over HTTP and IP References: <001701c2df2f$d95c5880$7001a8c0@Dantooine> Message-ID: <003d01c2df3c$1e272970$0100a8c0@DesktopGC> MessageI thought that RTP handled resend requests in case of packet loss. There are also the extensions to RTP (RTPS?) for secure data, so I'm surprised you have problems with packet loss. Regards Graham ----- Original Message ----- From: John Arthur To: 'AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN' ; technotes@lists.m4if.org Sent: Friday, February 28, 2024 1:46 PM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Transport of MPEG-4 SL Packets (Bifs and ODs) over HTTP and IP Hello Olivier, Our current implementation uses RTP (over UDP/IP) for BIFS SL Packets but packet loss is a real headache, so I'm looking for an interoperable TCP/IP solution. Since we are talking about an MPEG-4 MU server, sending on-the-fly, dynamic scene information which may vary according to clients characteristics, I can't just send the content as a pre-generated mp4 file. It seems that HTTP would not be appropriate for sending the raw IOD, ODs and BIFS streams unless you defined specific MIME types for all types of MPEG-4 streams, this seems a little long-winded. The question is therefore: is there a pre-defined, interoperable way to pack SL header data into a TCP/IP transmission, without using the RTP mapping already defined (since this assumes use of RTP)? If not do we need one? Best regards John -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN Sent: 28 February 2024 12:10 To: john.arthur@octaga.com; technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Transport of MPEG-4 SL Packets (Bifs and ODs) over HTTP and IP Hi John, I've read many times in various places (including the recent MPEG-4 White Paper) that a method of transport of MPEG-4 streams over IP and HTTP has been defined [by MPEG and IETF I assume]. However the only documentation I can find only specifies transport over RTP. Does anyone have any pointers as to where I can find documentation for transport over general IP and HTTP? I am especially interested in the transport of Bifs and OD SL Packets, and a common way of mapping SL Packet Header info for protocols other than RTP, so as to ensure interoperability for these protocols. If you use HTTP, I don't think you need to standardize anything, you just download your MP4 file and play it. If you are smart enough you can do some progressive download so that you can play your file before it is completly received. Concerning streaming over IP, I guess you mean UDP/IP, you can use MPEG-4 SLpacketized streams over UDP. Session description is not standardize but for streaming people generally just use RTP. What are exactly your requirements ? cu, O. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030228/452c5138/attachment.html From john.arthur octaga.com Fri Feb 28 17:38:36 2003 From: john.arthur octaga.com (John Arthur) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Transport of MPEG-4 SL Packets (Bifs and ODs) over HTTP and IP In-Reply-To: <003d01c2df3c$1e272970$0100a8c0@DesktopGC> Message-ID: <000401c2df47$d75243c0$7001a8c0@Dantooine> Hello Graham, There are ways to recover lost packets in RTP, based on the receiver reports provided through the RTCP channel. However since the report frequency can vary it can take some time before the lost packet information is received on the server. Moreover these reports have to be manually interpreted on the server side to determine how many packets have been lost and which. The client must also stop processing BIFS updates when an out of sequence packet is received, and wait for the packet with the right sequence number. This introduces the need for local caching mechanisms on client and server side, to accomodate resending of lost packets (server) and storage of received packets while waiting for the right packet to come along (client). This seems unnessarily complex when the TCP subsystem handles this kind of functionality innately. Also the receiver reports didn't work on the OpenSource RTP implementation we used [jrtp lib] :-(. So we had to implement our own work around. Since the whole thing is built on UDP/IP, packet loss is very sensitive to network conditions, it is especially unhappy in wireless environments, where hundreds of packets can sometimes go astray, which is catastrophic for a streaming BIFS session. Anyway TCP/IP seems a much better bet for BIFS streams, hence my original question. Do you have any other opinions/experince re: RTP for BIFS? Best regards John -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of the_ether Sent: 28 February 2024 16:14 To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Transport of MPEG-4 SL Packets (Bifs and ODs) over HTTP and IP I thought that RTP handled resend requests in case of packet loss. There are also the extensions to RTP (RTPS?) for secure data, so I'm surprised you have problems with packet loss. Regards Graham ----- Original Message ----- From: John Arthur To: 'AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN' ; technotes@lists.m4if.org Sent: Friday, February 28, 2024 1:46 PM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Transport of MPEG-4 SL Packets (Bifs and ODs) over HTTP and IP Hello Olivier, Our current implementation uses RTP (over UDP/IP) for BIFS SL Packets but packet loss is a real headache, so I'm looking for an interoperable TCP/IP solution. Since we are talking about an MPEG-4 MU server, sending on-the-fly, dynamic scene information which may vary according to clients characteristics, I can't just send the content as a pre-generated mp4 file. It seems that HTTP would not be appropriate for sending the raw IOD, ODs and BIFS streams unless you defined specific MIME types for all types of MPEG-4 streams, this seems a little long-winded. The question is therefore: is there a pre-defined, interoperable way to pack SL header data into a TCP/IP transmission, without using the RTP mapping already defined (since this assumes use of RTP)? If not do we need one? Best regards John -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH/REN Sent: 28 February 2024 12:10 To: john.arthur@octaga.com; technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Transport of MPEG-4 SL Packets (Bifs and ODs) over HTTP and IP Hi John, I've read many times in various places (including the recent MPEG-4 White Paper) that a method of transport of MPEG-4 streams over IP and HTTP has been defined [by MPEG and IETF I assume]. However the only documentation I can find only specifies transport over RTP. Does anyone have any pointers as to where I can find documentation for transport over general IP and HTTP? I am especially interested in the transport of Bifs and OD SL Packets, and a common way of mapping SL Packet Header info for protocols other than RTP, so as to ensure interoperability for these protocols. If you use HTTP, I don't think you need to standardize anything, you just download your MP4 file and play it. If you are smart enough you can do some progressive download so that you can play your file before it is completly received. Concerning streaming over IP, I guess you mean UDP/IP, you can use MPEG-4 SLpacketized streams over UDP. Session description is not standardize but for streaming people generally just use RTP. What are exactly your requirements ? cu, O. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030228/40e6186c/attachment.html From sm dicas.de Fri Feb 28 17:43:28 2003 From: sm dicas.de (Moeritz, Sebastian) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:09:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] HD decoders? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Ben -- dicas' mpegable Player is able to playback 1280x720 and 1920x1080 on a PC > 2GHz (disable postfilter in options menu). Kind regards. Sebastian -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Ben Waggoner Sent: 27 February 2024 19:50 To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] HD decoders? Folks, I'm on a panel about HD at NAB this year. http://www.nab.org/conventions/nab2003/sessiondetail.asp?id=1201583 As part of the presentation, I want to be able to demo HD MPEG-4 (at least 1280x720, and ideally 1920x1080). Can be SP, ASP, 264, or ideally all of them (but I'll take SP if nothing else). Does anyone have Mac/Win based software decoder that can pull this off? I gather we'll have access to a beefy machine. If not, any other good, portable MPEG-4 HD decode solutions I could use in the session? I'll happily credit the vendor in the presentation. Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding My Book: Cleaner e-book: Compression Classes at Stanford June 30-July 4 and Aug 11-15 _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes