From thithuyngoc.pham hermes.usherb.ca Sun Jun 1 10:51:09 2003 From: thithuyngoc.pham hermes.usherb.ca (Pham Thi Thuy Ngoc) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:36 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I find H26L source code? Message-ID: <1054475469.3eda04cd3155d@www.usherbrooke.ca> Hello everyone, I would like to find the source code of H26L or executed program. Where can I find it? Thank you very much! -- Pham Thi Thuy Ngoc UdeSherbrooke From sps iis.fhg.de Mon Jun 2 17:55:36 2003 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:36 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: how to verify AAC decoder output In-Reply-To: <200305291742.23022.jens.rennert@mobilesmartsinc.com> References: <200305291742.23022.jens.rennert@mobilesmartsinc.com> Message-ID: <3EDB6568.5060405@iis.fhg.de> Jens Rennert wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I would like to know what the usual procedure is to verify the correctness of > an AAC decoder output. I would assume that there are reference audio files > (decoded with a reference decoder) which could be compared to the decoders > output. Yes, this is correct. > Would this compare be a bit true compare? There are several tests defined in ISO/IEC 14496-4. Bit exactness is not required, but there are RMS and LSB measures which have to be met at least for the sine sweeps and a special energy masure to test PNS. > Where can I get reference streams > to compare my decoders output with? ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4@ftp.iis.fhg.de/mpeg4audio-conformance For a description of the test sequences and the assigned measures check out ISO/IEC 14496-4. For the appropriate tools allowing the comparison of the waveforms check out ISO/IEC 14496-5. Best regards, Ralph -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From ramki emuzed.com Tue Jun 3 10:35:51 2003 From: ramki emuzed.com (Ramkishor Korada) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:36 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I find H26L source code? References: <1054475469.3eda04cd3155d@www.usherbrooke.ca> Message-ID: <01d301c32985$71f64520$1b0aa8c0@blr.emuzed.com> Hi, You can download the latest source code from this link http://bs.hhi.de/~suehring/tml/download/jm62.zip regards, ramkishor Architect - Video Multimedia Technologies Division Emuzed India Bangalore www.emuzed.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pham Thi Thuy Ngoc" To: Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2024 7:21 PM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Where can I find H26L source code? > > Hello everyone, > > I would like to find the source code of H26L or executed program. Where can I > find it? > > Thank you very much! > > > -- > Pham Thi Thuy Ngoc > UdeSherbrooke > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From bph_uvce yahoo.com Tue Jun 3 00:43:56 2003 From: bph_uvce yahoo.com (B.P.Harish) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:36 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] .cmp to .mp4 Message-ID: <20030603064356.40708.qmail@web40310.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, 1.How do I convert .cmp file generated by Microsoft encoder in Reference software to .mp4 format? I used mp4creator but the o/p .mp4 file can't be played with gmp4player ? Why? could u suggest some encoder with parameter file that generate mpeg4 bitstream? Or some tool to convert .cmp generated by MS encoder to .mp4 that can be played with gmp4player. 2.Is it possible to generate mpeg4 bitstream with multiple video objects using xvidenc encoder(as simple profile also mean upto 4 VOs,but with rectangular shape coding) How to specify no.of VOs to be encoded to xvidenc? ur respose is eagerly awaited & will be appreciated. b.p.harish __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com From cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com Tue Jun 3 16:15:27 2003 From: cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com (cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:36 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question on H.264 Message-ID: Dear all, Would any one tell me why the CAVLC in H.264 are scanning backwards (i.e from the higher frequency area to the lower)? Thanks in advance. Regards, Clover ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MMORPG Shadowbane ¡uÅ]¼C¡v¹CÀ¸®M¸Ë(HK$38) ¤Î30-day ¤ë¶O¹CÀ¸¥d¸g¤w¤W¥«! The Ultimate MMORPG by So-net HK http://shadowbane.so-net.com.hk ÆF®æ­·¡G ¾Ç­^»y¡A°e¢°¢´°ó´¶³q¸Ü http://www.linguaphonegroup.com/BannerTrack.asp?EMSCode=HKI03-06ETFM-0814 From oamato wanadoo.fr Tue Jun 3 13:54:35 2003 From: oamato wanadoo.fr (Olivier Amato) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:36 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] .cmp to .mp4 References: <20030603064356.40708.qmail@web40310.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00db01c329be$8a2484c0$0a00000a@beck> > 1.How do I convert .cmp file generated by Microsoft > encoder in Reference software to .mp4 format? You could maybe try AVgen from IBM's toolkit ( http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/tk4mpeg4 ). I have not made the test, but the application seems to accept .cmp as input files. Regards, Olivier From ben interframemedia.com Tue Jun 3 10:20:52 2003 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:36 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Apple's 3GPP component released! Message-ID: Folks, After long last, Apple finally released their 3GPP component today, along with QuickTime 6.3! http://www.apple.com/mpeg4/3gpp/ Looks like a pretty good solution, and QuickTime Pro is only $30. Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding My Book: Cleaner e-book: Compression Classes at Stanford June 30-July 4 and Aug 11-15 Compression Class in New York City, July 13 From mala consultant.com Tue Jun 3 19:26:49 2003 From: mala consultant.com (munisamy Mala) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:36 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] How to create FGS stream in MPEG4 Message-ID: <20030603232649.94652.qmail@mail.com> Dear M4IF community folks, I have been doing Research on MPEG4 Rate control and scalability for my masters and i am trying to encode foreman.cif test sequence using Microsoft MPEG4 FGS Reference software and unable to encode the video successfully using fgs1.par file. does anyone have any idea why i wasn't able to encode the test sequence using FGS or any documents or suggestions on how to create FGS stream would be helpful Thanks in Advance Mala -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup From singer apple.com Tue Jun 3 17:38:23 2003 From: singer apple.com (Dave Singer) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:36 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Player In-Reply-To: <005e01c32154$79af31c0$9002a8c0@baphomet> References: <00a701c32135$b8421e30$0200a8c0@laptop> <005e01c32154$79af31c0$9002a8c0@baphomet> Message-ID: QuickTime, since QT6, of course, from Apple Computer. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: tm991058 >To: technotes@lists.m4if.org >Sent: Friday, May 23, 2024 4:15 PM >Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Player > >Hi! > >During my diploma thesis, which is about MPEG-4 I write about MPEG-4 player. > >I would like to give an overview over all MPEG-4 players and their >abilities, available on the market by now. >The chapter in my diploma thesis should provide the details about >all players available: >- the name of the player, >- the company which has developed the player + internetsite >- and the internetsite which contains the list of the abilities of >the player (or if there is no internetsite I write down the main >abilities) > >Maybe you can help me collecting players... or maybe you have a >player in development which should not miss in my overview! > >I would be happy about every answer I get, which helps me to >complete my overview! > >Thanks, >Karin > >p.s.: If someone is interessted in the complete overview.. I can >send it to you, when it is finished!!! > -- David Singer Apple Computer/QuickTime -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030603/fca0b8b1/attachment.html From zbjiang tvia.com Wed Jun 4 09:41:23 2003 From: zbjiang tvia.com (Zhubing Jiang) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:37 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogW000SUYgVGVjaG5vdGVzXSBNUEVHLTQgUGxheWVy?= Message-ID: TVM4Player, from Tvia. http://www.tvia.com/software Beest regards, Zhubing Jiang -----ÓʼþÔ­¼þ----- ·¢¼þÈË: Dave Singer [mailto:singer@apple.com] ·¢ËÍʱ¼ä: Wednesday, June 04, 2024 07:38 ÊÕ¼þÈË: tm991058; technotes@lists.m4if.org Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Player QuickTime, since QT6, of course, from Apple Computer. ----- Original Message ----- From: tm991058 To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Sent: Friday, May 23, 2024 4:15 PM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Player Hi! During my diploma thesis, which is about MPEG-4 I write about MPEG-4 player. I would like to give an overview over all MPEG-4 players and their abilities, available on the market by now. The chapter in my diploma thesis should provide the details about all players available: - the name of the player, - the company which has developed the player + internetsite - and the internetsite which contains the list of the abilities of the player (or if there is no internetsite I write down the main abilities) Maybe you can help me collecting players... or maybe you have a player in development which should not miss in my overview! I would be happy about every answer I get, which helps me to complete my overview! Thanks, Karin p.s.: If someone is interessted in the complete overview.. I can send it to you, when it is finished!!! -- David Singer Apple Computer/QuickTime -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030604/f74f600a/attachment.html From lcheng62 yahoo.com Wed Jun 4 02:34:42 2003 From: lcheng62 yahoo.com (Liang Cheng) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:37 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Rayleigh fading simulator Message-ID: <20030604083442.36952.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Could anyone of you help me to get a simulator to output wireless channel bit-error-pattern (particularly Rayleigh channel). I need it to test the error-resilience of MPEG-4 stream. Thank you, Liang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com From oamato wanadoo.fr Wed Jun 4 11:36:54 2003 From: oamato wanadoo.fr (Olivier Amato) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:37 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-REL and IPMP References: <00a701c32135$b8421e30$0200a8c0@laptop> <005e01c32154$79af31c0$9002a8c0@baphomet> Message-ID: <002001c32a74$7e1eda70$0a00000a@beck> Does anybody know how MPEG-REL is related to IPMP development ( following news claims its adoption by OpenIPMP project ) ? "ContentGuard And Objectlab Collaborate To Provide Support For MPEG-REL Within OpenIPMP Bethesda, MD (June 3, 2024) - ContentGuard and Objectlab today announced the companies have collaborated to enhance the open source project, OpenIPMP, with support for the forthcoming industry standard rights expression language, MPEG-REL. By making available source code for MPEG-REL interpretation and generation tools within the OpenIPMP framework, both companies hope to promote and drive the adoption of interoperable standards for Digital Rights Management (DRM). The OpenIPMP project provides a reference platform to demonstrate cutting-edge standards-based DRM technology. The MPEG-REL, based on ContentGuard's XrML (eXtensible rights Markup Language), is expected for release as an ISO/IEC Standard later this year. Widespread adoption of MPEG-REL will allow seamless distribution of digital works between the diverse range of parties involved in digital content creation, distribution and consumption. About OpenIPMP Sponsored by Objectlab, the OpenIPMP project provides an evolutionary path for the future of DRM, demonstrating the state-of-the art with respect to standards-based DRM technology. OpenIPMP is committed to an open process, aiding in the evaluation of experimental standards (MPEG, ISMA, and others), the design of new specifications, and in producing openly available Rights Management reference software. For more information, please visit www.openipmp.com ". http://www.streamingmedia.com/press/printversion.asp?id=1960 I would like also know how IPMP specifications are evolving into ISMA ? Could we expect some clear recommendations in the next future ? Another thing, are the DRM features implemented into Apple's iTunes based on IPMP ? Thanks. Olivier From pkudumakis crl.co.uk Wed Jun 4 12:15:44 2003 From: pkudumakis crl.co.uk (Panos Kudumakis) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:37 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-REL and IPMP Message-ID: <239435957@crl.co.uk> Olivier ObjectLab is also an associate partner of an EU project called MOSES http://www.crl.co.uk/projects/moses OpenIPMP is based on the "hooks" (the spec approved Dec 1998) while MOSES software implementation is based on IPMPX (eXtensions) (the spec approved Oct 2002) and is just about to finish It will be demonstrated in July 2003 MPEG meeting to further advance the ref soft status and conformance of MPEG-4 IPMPX The MOSES IPMPX interface which will be used to link IPMPX to any player is already publicised through MOSES contributions to MPEG and it will become available through the above URL soon The same applies for the IPMPX conformance message library contributed to MPEG by MOSES MOSES currently supports MPEG-21 REL which has been demonstrated in the last couple of MPEG meetings and has been achieved thanks to ContentGuard efforts However you may want to have a look in OpenSDRM arhitecture by MOSES http://opensdrm.no-ip.org I hope others will shed light to your other questions which I am also interested especially the path that ISMA follows. Regards Panos ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-REL and IPMP Author: "Olivier Amato" Date: 04/06/2024 09:36 Does anybody know how MPEG-REL is related to IPMP development ( following news claims its adoption by OpenIPMP project ) ? "ContentGuard And Objectlab Collaborate To Provide Support For MPEG-REL Within OpenIPMP Bethesda, MD (June 3, 2024) - ContentGuard and Objectlab today announced the companies have collaborated to enhance the open source project, OpenIPMP, with support for the forthcoming industry standard rights expression language, MPEG-REL. By making available source code for MPEG-REL interpretation and generation tools within the OpenIPMP framework, both companies hope to promote and drive the adoption of interoperable standards for Digital Rights Management (DRM). The OpenIPMP project provides a reference platform to demonstrate cutting-edge standards-based DRM technology. The MPEG-REL, based on ContentGuard's XrML (eXtensible rights Markup Language), is expected for release as an ISO/IEC Standard later this year. Widespread adoption of MPEG-REL will allow seamless distribution of digital works between the diverse range of parties involved in digital content creation, distribution and consumption. About OpenIPMP Sponsored by Objectlab, the OpenIPMP project provides an evolutionary path for the future of DRM, demonstrating the state-of-the art with respect to standards-based DRM technology. OpenIPMP is committed to an open process, aiding in the evaluation of experimental standards (MPEG, ISMA, and others), the design of new specifications, and in producing openly available Rights Management reference software. For more information, please visit www.openipmp.com ". http://www.streamingmedia.com/press/printversion.asp?id=1960 I would like also know how IPMP specifications are evolving into ISMA ? Could we expect some clear recommendations in the next future ? Another thing, are the DRM features implemented into Apple's iTunes based on IPMP ? Thanks. Olivier _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -********************************************************************* This communication contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). Please note that any unauthorised distribution, copying or use of this communication, or the information in it, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by email or by telephone (+44 20 8848 9779) and then delete the email and any copies of it. This communication is from Central Research Laboratories Ltd., whose principal office is at Dawley Road, Hayes, Middlesex, England. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been checked for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** From bruno ipg.pt Wed Jun 4 18:16:36 2003 From: bruno ipg.pt (Bruno) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:37 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] player 3d Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20030604170011.00b7de98@mail.ipg.pt> Hi, I'm studying the mpeg4 for an academic work in augmented reality. I need to create an mp4 file with a video stream and virtual objects (vrml) over it. I got the ISO reference software but I can't create any file that work in the IM1 3D Player. Does someone have an example that work in the IM1 3D Player? Thanks, Bruno Fernandes. From zyhuang psl.com.sg Thu Jun 5 02:37:33 2003 From: zyhuang psl.com.sg (Huang Zhongyang) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:37 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-REL and IPMP In-Reply-To: <239435957@crl.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi, Panos, Olivier, all: > I hope others will shed light to your other questions which I am > also interested > especially the path that ISMA follows. Guy from NagraVision, Ji Ming from Panasonic, and some other guys in ISMA are making effort to try to include MPEG IPMPX syntax in current ISMACryp spec. However, the terminal part of IPMPX (Messaging, etc) seems too complex for ISMACryp to even consider. The discussion is still going on. Regards, Huang Zhongyang Panasonic Singapore Laboratories Pte Ltd > -----Original Message----- > From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Panos Kudumakis > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2024 6:16 PM > To: Olivier Amato; technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: Re:[M4IF Technotes] MPEG-REL and IPMP > > > Olivier > > ObjectLab is also an associate partner of an EU project called MOSES > http://www.crl.co.uk/projects/moses > > OpenIPMP is based on the "hooks" (the spec approved Dec 1998) while MOSES > software implementation is based on IPMPX (eXtensions) (the spec > approved Oct > 2002) and is just about to finish It will be demonstrated in July > 2003 MPEG > meeting to further advance the ref soft status and conformance of > MPEG-4 IPMPX > The MOSES IPMPX interface which will be used to link IPMPX to > any player is > already publicised through MOSES contributions to MPEG and it will become > available through the above URL soon The same applies for the > IPMPX conformance > message library contributed to MPEG by MOSES > > MOSES currently supports MPEG-21 REL which has been demonstrated > in the last > couple of MPEG meetings and has been achieved thanks to > ContentGuard efforts > > However you may want to have a look in OpenSDRM arhitecture by MOSES > http://opensdrm.no-ip.org > > I hope others will shed light to your other questions which I am > also interested > especially the path that ISMA follows. > > Regards > Panos > > > ____________________Reply Separator____________________ > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-REL and IPMP > Author: "Olivier Amato" > Date: 04/06/2024 09:36 > > Does anybody know how MPEG-REL is related to IPMP development ( following > news claims its adoption by OpenIPMP project ) ? > > "ContentGuard And Objectlab Collaborate To Provide Support For MPEG-REL > Within OpenIPMP > > Bethesda, MD (June 3, 2024) - ContentGuard and Objectlab today > announced the > companies have collaborated to enhance the open source project, OpenIPMP, > with support for the forthcoming industry standard rights expression > language, MPEG-REL. By making available source code for MPEG-REL > interpretation and generation tools within the OpenIPMP framework, both > companies hope to promote and drive the adoption of interoperable > standards > for Digital Rights Management (DRM). > > The OpenIPMP project provides a reference platform to demonstrate > cutting-edge standards-based DRM technology. The MPEG-REL, based on > ContentGuard's XrML (eXtensible rights Markup Language), is expected for > release as an ISO/IEC Standard later this year. Widespread adoption of > MPEG-REL will allow seamless distribution of digital works between the > diverse range of parties involved in digital content creation, > distribution > and consumption. > > About OpenIPMP > Sponsored by Objectlab, the OpenIPMP project provides an evolutionary path > for the future of DRM, demonstrating the state-of-the art with respect to > standards-based DRM technology. OpenIPMP is committed to an open process, > aiding in the evaluation of experimental standards (MPEG, ISMA, > and others), > the design of new specifications, and in producing openly available Rights > Management reference software. For more information, please visit > www.openipmp.com ". > http://www.streamingmedia.com/press/printversion.asp?id=1960 > > > I would like also know how IPMP specifications are evolving into ISMA ? > Could we expect some clear recommendations in the next future ? > Another thing, are the DRM features implemented into Apple's > iTunes based on > IPMP ? > > Thanks. > > Olivier > > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > > > > -********************************************************************* > This communication contains information which is confidential > and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the > intended recipient(s). Please note that any unauthorised > distribution, copying or use of this communication, or the > information in it, is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this communication in error, please notify us by email or by > telephone (+44 20 8848 9779) and then delete the email and > any copies of it. > > This communication is from Central Research Laboratories Ltd., > whose principal office is at Dawley Road, Hayes, Middlesex, > England. > > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been > checked for the presence of computer viruses. > ********************************************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From luke ics.agh.edu.pl Thu Jun 5 02:52:15 2003 From: luke ics.agh.edu.pl (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?=A3ukasz_Czekierda?=) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:37 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Envivio MPEG-j In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello all! Do you use Envivio's MPEJ-J API? I have a problem with accessing, particularly adding, children with this API. Is it possible? I manage changing values of any fields but children don't work. I would be grateful for any suggestions. Maybe a piece of code? Thanks in advance, Best regards, Lukasz Czekierda From bfelts envivio.com Wed Jun 4 18:07:58 2003 From: bfelts envivio.com (Boris Felts) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:37 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Envivio MPEG-j In-Reply-To: <0ADFC3A378B7B2408351059DCC465DAD3606A3@xchange.sfo.envivio.com> Message-ID: <0ADFC3A378B7B2408351059DCC465DAD41CDB2@xchange.sfo.envivio.com> If the question is how to use MPEG-J, that might be the right place. Otherwise, if you have question about MPEG-J support in Envivio products, you should better send an email to the support at Envivio or visit the forum page. Best regards, Boris Felts Envivio. > -----Original Message----- > From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes- > admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of ?ukasz Czekierda > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2024 4:52 PM > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Envivio MPEG-j > > Hello all! > > Do you use Envivio's MPEJ-J API? I have a problem with accessing, > particularly adding, children with this API. Is it possible? I manage > changing values of any fields but children don't work. I would be grateful > for any suggestions. Maybe a piece of code? > > Thanks in advance, > > Best regards, > > Lukasz Czekierda > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From hychin swallow.ee.nctu.edu.tw Thu Jun 5 13:13:15 2003 From: hychin swallow.ee.nctu.edu.tw (Allen H.Y. Chin) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:37 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Inquiry about the parameter file settings for MPEG-4 verification model Message-ID: <3EDEC35B.4000909@swallow.ee.nctu.edu.tw> Hello there, Does anybody know the meanings and the typical values of the setting for the following two parameters in Microsoft MPEG-4 verification model ( VM18) ? -- allow skip -- use source for ME Thank in advance. Sincerely, Hao-yun Chin From bph_uvce yahoo.com Thu Jun 5 02:58:17 2003 From: bph_uvce yahoo.com (B.P.Harish) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:37 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG4 encoder Message-ID: <20030605085817.14175.qmail@web40302.mail.yahoo.com> Dear MPEG experts, Do u know of an MPEG4 encoder that generates core profile bitstream from a .yuv file? Even a simple profile with multiple video objects encoding is also fine & preferred. Pl. mail me the URL from where I can download. Does xvidenc of MPEG4IP open source encode multiple VOs? ; documentation says it supports simple profile only. But simple profile as I understand supports upto 4 VOs but with rectangular shape coding.(as against arbitrary shape coding of core profile). Am I right? Thanks in advance, ===== Regards, b.p.harish __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com From chl math.uni-bonn.de Thu Jun 5 12:33:29 2003 From: chl math.uni-bonn.de (Christoph Lampert) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:37 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG4 encoder In-Reply-To: <20030605085817.14175.qmail@web40302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, B.P.Harish wrote: > Dear MPEG experts, > Do u know of an MPEG4 encoder that generates core > profile bitstream from a .yuv file? Even a simple > profile with multiple video objects encoding is also > fine & preferred. Pl. mail me the URL from where I can > download. > Does xvidenc of MPEG4IP open source encode multiple > VOs? ; No, it doesn't. Best regards, Christoph Lampert From Samuel.Rouiller crealogix.com Thu Jun 5 12:36:40 2003 From: Samuel.Rouiller crealogix.com (Samuel.Rouiller@crealogix.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:38 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 3GPP file parsing. stsd atom and H.263 Message-ID: Hi, I am trying to write a Java parser for 3GPP files. I use the ISO/IEC 14496-1 spec as information basis. I do not understand how to parse the 'stsd' atom. I have a track containing an H.263 video. If I understand it right I should be able to retrieve configuration parameter for the H.263 codec from this atom. Could anybody tell me how to find this information. I pasted hereunder the stsd atom of a 3GPP example file. 00000186h: 00 00 00 75 73 74 73 64 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 ; ...ustsd........ 00000196h: 00 00 00 65 73 32 36 33 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 ; ...es263........ 000001a6h: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ; ................ 000001b6h: 00 80 00 60 00 48 00 00 00 48 00 00 00 00 00 00 ; .?.`.H...H...... 000001c6h: 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ; ................ 000001d6h: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ; ................ 000001e6h: 00 00 00 18 FF FF 00 00 00 0F 64 32 36 33 48 4E ; ....??....d263HN 000001f6h: 54 52 00 0A 00 ; TR... I am very new to MPEG and media programming in general so any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Samuel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030605/c1d79b31/attachment.html From emre.aksu nokia.com Thu Jun 5 14:54:06 2003 From: emre.aksu nokia.com (emre.aksu@nokia.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:38 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 3GPP file parsing. stsd atom and H.263 Message-ID: Hi Samuel, The relevant information can be found in the Annex D of 3GPP Specification TS 26.234 Release 5 document. You can get the document from the following ftp link: ftp://ftp.3gpp.org/Specs/archive/26_series/26.234/26234-540.zip Note that there will be a new 3GPP specification document for Release 6, which will only be covering the 3GP issues: TS 26.244. You can also find it in the same ftp site. ftp://ftp.3gpp.org/Specs/archive/26_series/26.444/26244-013.zip Regards, Emre Aksu Nokia Mobile Phones -----Original Message----- From: ext Samuel.Rouiller@crealogix.com [mailto:Samuel.Rouiller@crealogix.com] Sent: 05 June, 2003 12:37 To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 3GPP file parsing. stsd atom and H.263 Hi, I am trying to write a Java parser for 3GPP files. I use the ISO/IEC 14496-1 spec as information basis. I do not understand how to parse the 'stsd' atom. I have a track containing an H.263 video. If I understand it right I should be able to retrieve configuration parameter for the H.263 codec from this atom. Could anybody tell me how to find this information. I pasted hereunder the stsd atom of a 3GPP example file. 00000186h: 00 00 00 75 73 74 73 64 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 ; ...ustsd........ 00000196h: 00 00 00 65 73 32 36 33 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 ; ...es263........ 000001a6h: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ; ................ 000001b6h: 00 80 00 60 00 48 00 00 00 48 00 00 00 00 00 00 ; .EUR.`.H...H...... 000001c6h: 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ; ................ 000001d6h: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ; ................ 000001e6h: 00 00 00 18 FF FF 00 00 00 0F 64 32 36 33 48 4E ; ....??....d263HN 000001f6h: 54 52 00 0A 00 ; TR... I am very new to MPEG and media programming in general so any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Samuel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030605/4ff39d08/attachment.html From schun001 umn.edu Thu Jun 5 12:49:41 2003 From: schun001 umn.edu (Richard Schunn) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:38 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] player 3d Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030605111828.04199170@schun001.email.umn.edu> Hi Burno, The only success I've had playing back a interactive 3d animated architectural scenes in mpeg-4 format is with Octagon Player. http://www.octaga.com/ I created a schematic massing model of our new building by architect Steven Holl, feel free to download: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~schun001/mp4/rapvrani.mp4 Regards, At 11:17 AM 6/5/2024 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, > >I'm studying the mpeg4 for an academic work in augmented reality. I need to >create an mp4 file with a video stream and virtual objects (vrml) over it. > >I got the ISO reference software but I can't create any file that work in >the IM1 3D Player. Does someone have an example that work in the IM1 3D >Player? > >Thanks, >Bruno Fernandes. Richard G. Schunn _________________________________________ Technology Director College of Architecture and Landscape Architecture University of Minnesota tel 612-625-5098 fax 612-624-5743 _________________________________________ schun001@umn.edu From oamato wanadoo.fr Thu Jun 5 20:50:22 2003 From: oamato wanadoo.fr (Olivier Amato) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:38 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG4 encoder References: <20030605085817.14175.qmail@web40302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002f01c32b8a$f8036880$0a00000a@beck> > Do u know of an MPEG4 encoder that generates core > profile bitstream from a .yuv file? I think a previous version of Dicas' encoder used to implement Core Profile. Their last version ( mpegable Broadcaster ) doesn't seem to allow you arbitrarily shaped objects coding, but their SDK does ... I don't know any free Core Profile implementation :-( Are you mainly interested in arbitrarily shaped objects coding or multiple video objects ( you could maybe use a BIFS track for that purpose ... ) ? Olivier From dynarmy 163.com Fri Jun 6 11:40:17 2003 From: dynarmy 163.com (dynarmy) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:38 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] =?gb2312?B?aGVscA==?= Message-ID: <3EDFFF11.000091.29816@bj249.163.com> hello! I'm a researcher of China on the mpeg4 audio.When I compile the 14496-5 reference software ,it didn't work because of the lack of mpeg4 file format library.Coule you give me a guide on how to get the library ? Thanks a lot! Best regards! Eager for your reply! ============================================================= ÅÌÖг¬¼¶Ó¯Àû¾¡ÔÚÕÆÎÕ ÏíÊÜÀ­ÉýµÄ¿ì¸Ð http://list.163.com/mlist/pzjg/pzjg.htm °Ù·Ö°ÙÅ®ÓÑ - ´º¼¾Ñ¡ÃÀ»î¶¯! http://love.163.com ¸öÈË¿Õ¼äÃâ·ÑÊÔÓà http://www.nease.net From a.don systm.tv Fri Jun 6 19:19:57 2003 From: a.don systm.tv (anthony don) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:38 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] time stamps insertion-extraction Message-ID: <003101c32c47$792c4370$2101a8c0@devanthony> Hi, What would be the best solution to insert/extract time stamps into a .mp4 file ? I think about Updates, or Invisible nodes in BIFS. The extraction could then be processed by a MPEGLet to provide synchronisation between content, eg video, and other applications (outside .mp4 file). Regards, Anthony DON Trainee at systm.tv Bordeaux, France -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030606/418a6890/attachment.html From sps iis.fhg.de Fri Jun 6 14:05:50 2003 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:38 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: help In-Reply-To: <3EDFFF11.000091.29816@bj249.163.com> References: <3EDFFF11.000091.29816@bj249.163.com> Message-ID: <3EE0758E.9060804@iis.fhg.de> Hi, the mp4fileformat library (libisomedia) is part of the systems reference software. Best regards, Ralph dynarmy wrote: > hello! > I'm a researcher of China on the mpeg4 audio.When I compile the 14496-5 reference software ,it didn't work because of the lack of mpeg4 file format library.Coule you give me a guide on how to get the library ? > Thanks a lot! > Best regards! > Eager for your reply! > > ============================================================= > ???????????????????? ?????????????? http://list.163.com/mlist/pzjg/pzjg.htm > ?????????? - ????????????! http://love.163.com > ???????????????? http://www.nease.net > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From a.don systm.tv Fri Jun 6 21:50:52 2003 From: a.don systm.tv (anthony don) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:39 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] userdata in visual objects Message-ID: <000801c32c5c$8e1cc790$2101a8c0@devanthony> Hello, Could you give me use-cases of userdata fields in visual objects bitstream. It seems that this field can be used (in the case of video objects) only BEFORE actual rendering of video but not WHILE rendering (ie, there is no userdata in VOP's). Thanks in advance, Regards, Anthony DON Systmtv Bordeaux, France -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030606/3ea8b4b8/attachment.html From mihir ti.com Fri Jun 6 19:51:20 2003 From: mihir ti.com (Mody, Mihir) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:39 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Regarding MPEG4 video in 3GPP file format Message-ID: Hi, I created 3GPP movie file using Apple's Quicktime 6.3 Pro. In 'DecodeSpecificInfo' for MPEG4 video, for 'profile_and_level_indication' field it writes reserve word (0x08). Ideally this field should be 0x01 indicating simple profile and level 1 for MPEG4 video. The file does not contain IODs. How does decoder can find profile and level information in this case? Can it always assume simple profile L1 stream? PS: Also in case of Quicktime 6.0 Pro, it was writing 0xfe(reserve word) as 'profile_and_level_indication' in MP4 files. Regards, Mihir Mody Imaging and Audio Group, Texas Instruments Inc. Bangalore -India Email: mihir@ti.com Phone: +91-80-5099307 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030606/299920aa/attachment.html From Guido.Franceschini TILAB.COM Fri Jun 6 16:49:37 2003 From: Guido.Franceschini TILAB.COM (Franceschini Guido) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:39 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Regarding MPEG4 video in 3GPP file format Message-ID: <3737D9839ED3D3408C73611BDA907A0418B25E@EXC2K05A.cselt.it> Be careful: 3GPP requires Simple Profile Level 0, which corrsponds to number 0x08 Guido Franceschini TILAB - Multimedia Division Via G.Reiss Romoli 274 I-10148 Torino, Italy tel + 39 011 228 6137 fax + 39 011 228 6299 -----Original Message----- From: Mody, Mihir [mailto:mihir@ti.com] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2023 3:21 PM To: 'technotes@lists.m4if.org' Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Regarding MPEG4 video in 3GPP file format Hi, I created 3GPP movie file using Apple's Quicktime 6.3 Pro. In 'DecodeSpecificInfo' for MPEG4 video, for 'profile_and_level_indication' field it writes reserve word (0x08). Ideally this field should be 0x01 indicating simple profile and level 1 for MPEG4 video. The file does not contain IODs. How does decoder can find profile and level information in this case? Can it always assume simple profile L1 stream? PS: Also in case of Quicktime 6.0 Pro, it was writing 0xfe(reserve word) as 'profile_and_level_indication' in MP4 files. Regards, Mihir Mody Imaging and Audio Group, Texas Instruments Inc. Bangalore -India Email: mihir@ti.com Phone: +91-80-5099307 ==================================================================== CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons above and may contain confidential information. If you have received the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete the message. Should you have any questions, please contact us by replying to MailAdmin@tilab.com. Thank you ==================================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030606/ed98c293/attachment.html From Guido.Franceschini TILAB.COM Fri Jun 6 17:21:44 2003 From: Guido.Franceschini TILAB.COM (Franceschini Guido) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:39 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Regarding MPEG4 video in 3GPP file format Message-ID: <3737D9839ED3D3408C73611BDA907A0418B260@EXC2K05A.cselt.it> For your convenience, here is a table of Profiles and Levels that I believe are accepted in 3GPP, ISMA Profile0 and ISMA Profile1. I have compiled this table. If anybody identifies a mistake please let me know. includeInlineProfilesFlag 0 // 0x00 3GPP ISMA0 ISMA1 ODProfileLevelIndication 255 // 0xFF 3GPP ISMA0 ISMA1 sceneProfileLevelIndication 255 // 0xFF 3GPP ISMA0 ISMA1 graphicsProfileLevelIndication 255 // 0xFF 3GPP ISMA0 ISMA1 audioProfileLevelIndication 15 // 0x0F High Quality Audio Profile L2 ISMA0 ISMA1 (not sure about 3GPP' AAC) audioProfileLevelIndication 254 // 0xFE not specified (e.g. AMR for 3GPP) audioProfileLevelIndication 255 // 0xFF No Audio visualProfileLevelIndication 8 // 0x8 SP@L0 3GPP ISMA0 ISMA1 visualProfileLevelIndication 1 // 0x1 SP@L1 ISMA0 ISMA1 visualProfileLevelIndication 2 // 0x2 SP@L2 ISMA1 visualProfileLevelIndication 3 // 0x3 SP@L3 ISMA1 visualProfileLevelIndication 240 // 0xF0 ASP@L0 ISMA1 visualProfileLevelIndication 241 // 0xF1 ASP@L1 ISMA1 visualProfileLevelIndication 242 // 0xF2 ASP@L2 ISMA1 visualProfileLevelIndication 243 // 0xF3 ASP@L3 ISMA1 visualProfileLevelIndication 247 // 0xF7 ASP@L3b ISMA1 visualProfileLevelIndication 254 // 0xFE not specified (e.g. H263 for 3GPP) visualProfileLevelIndication 255 // 0xFF No Video Best regards Guido -----Original Message----- From: Mody, Mihir [mailto:mihir@ti.com] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2023 3:21 PM To: 'technotes@lists.m4if.org' Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Regarding MPEG4 video in 3GPP file format Hi, I created 3GPP movie file using Apple's Quicktime 6.3 Pro. In 'DecodeSpecificInfo' for MPEG4 video, for 'profile_and_level_indication' field it writes reserve word (0x08). Ideally this field should be 0x01 indicating simple profile and level 1 for MPEG4 video. The file does not contain IODs. How does decoder can find profile and level information in this case? Can it always assume simple profile L1 stream? PS: Also in case of Quicktime 6.0 Pro, it was writing 0xfe(reserve word) as 'profile_and_level_indication' in MP4 files. Regards, Mihir Mody Imaging and Audio Group, Texas Instruments Inc. Bangalore -India Email: mihir@ti.com Phone: +91-80-5099307 ==================================================================== CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons above and may contain confidential information. If you have received the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete the message. Should you have any questions, please contact us by replying to MailAdmin@tilab.com. Thank you ==================================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030606/4563682e/attachment.html From ramki emuzed.com Fri Jun 6 22:23:46 2003 From: ramki emuzed.com (Korada Ramkishor) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:39 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question on H.264 References: Message-ID: <005c01c32c43$d32627f0$b68c41db@venuw53befjwdz> Hi, In H.264 CAVLC, the VLC tables are adapted depending on the magnitude of previously coded coefficient. The dynamic range of high freq. coefficients is less compared to low freq. coefficients. Hence, scanning backwards results in more bit saving. regards, ramkishor Architect - Video Emuzed, Bangalore > -----Original Message----- > From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of > cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2024 12:45 PM > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question on H.264 > > > Dear all, > > Would any one tell me why the CAVLC in H.264 are scanning backwards (i.e > from the higher frequency area to the lower)? > Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > Clover > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ------- > MMORPG Shadowbane ?u?]?C?v?C???M??(HK$38) ??30-day ???O?C???d?g?w?W??! > The Ultimate MMORPG by So-net HK > http://shadowbane.so-net.com.hk > > ?F?????G ???^?y?A?e?????????q?? > http://www.linguaphonegroup.com/BannerTrack.asp?EMSCode=HKI03-06ETFM-0814 > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > > > > From neff PacketVideo.COM Fri Jun 6 13:01:01 2003 From: neff PacketVideo.COM (Ralph Neff) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:39 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Leading frames in AAC streams Message-ID: <72263E8E8622D611975C0002B32C19D80463DDCF@MISTY> Hi all, I'd like to ask about a problem we've been seeing which affects synchronization between video and AAC audio. Some content authors add 1 or 2 empty frames at the beginning of AAC bitstreams, but do not compensate for these frames in the A/V timeline. At higher sampling rates, this doesn't cause any problems (since each frame has such a short duration, the extra frames don't noticeably affect the sync). However, when you go down to the lowest sampling rates, the effect is noticeable (e.g. at 8khz, two frames create an unwanted 256 mS audio delay). Some decoders seem to compensate for this -- i.e. they introduce a time offset (effectively removing these empty 'leading frames' from the timeline). Some decoders do not. The result is that files authored with 8khz AAC audio seem to play in-sync on some decoders, and are a bit off on others. What is the correct behavior? Our audio experts couldn't find any special treatment of these leading frames in the MPEG-4 audio or systems/file format specs. So it seems the right thing to do is to respect the time line in the file format (i.e. render the audio frames at their proper sample times, not adding any special offsets). This means that if an offset is required for proper sync, then it must be explicitly indicated in the file format (e.g. via an editlist atom). Has anyone run into this problem before? Is the above interpretation correct, or is there something in the standard that specifies the treatment of these leading frames? It seems that quite a few implementations out there are doing this special treatment (i.e. always adding the frames at authoring time and always compensating for them at decode/render time, even though there is no editlist atom to indicate the need for such adjustment). -Ralph Ralph Neff * Packetvideo * www.pv.com neff@pv.com * phone: 858-731-5408 * fax: 858-731-5311 From mala consultant.com Fri Jun 6 16:21:57 2003 From: mala consultant.com (munisamy Mala) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:39 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] How to create FGS stream in MPEG4 Message-ID: <20030606202157.94299.qmail@mail.com> What is SVOP in MPEG4? Thanks Mala ----- Original Message ----- From: "munisamy Mala" Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2024 18:26:49 -0500 To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] How to create FGS stream in MPEG4 > Dear M4IF community folks, > I have been doing Research on MPEG4 Rate control and scalability for my masters and i am trying to encode foreman.cif test sequence using Microsoft MPEG4 FGS Reference software and unable to encode the video successfully using fgs1.par file. > > does anyone have any idea why i wasn't able to encode the test sequence using FGS > or any documents or suggestions on how to create FGS stream would be helpful > > Thanks in Advance > Mala > -- > __________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup From TOZCELEBI KU.EDU.TR Sat Jun 7 03:09:24 2003 From: TOZCELEBI KU.EDU.TR (TANIR OZCELEBI) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:39 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] JVT Header Message-ID: <1054940964.c8fa25c0TOZCELEBI@KU.EDU.TR> Dear experts, I need to extract the header portion of the jvt encoded material. Does anyone know a resource that explains the byte-structure of JVT encoded file "in detail"? Thanks in advance. Tanir Ozcelebi From rbleidt hdtv.com Fri Jun 6 17:16:32 2003 From: rbleidt hdtv.com (Robert Bleidt) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:39 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] scalable audio encoders Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20030606160620.03470ab0@localhost> I am trying to put together a list of commercial scalable audio encoders - those that support bitrate scalability either through AAC Scalable or stream switching. Does anybody know of one? Robert Bleidt From ramki emuzed.com Sat Jun 7 12:45:55 2003 From: ramki emuzed.com (Ramkishor Korada) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] hi there References: <20030605132051.19230.qmail@webmail36.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <022401c32cbc$4761a040$1b0aa8c0@blr.emuzed.com> Hi, If your interest is in video and then some topics are 1. Fast motion estimation algorithms development, R-D optimized rate control algo development, error resilience, error concealment algo development for standards such as MPEG-4 SP, MPEG-4 ASP, AVC/H.264 encoder/decoders etc. 2. Object segmentation, object tracking, etc. 3. Contributing for evolving standards such as Scalable video coding, 3D video coding, digital cinema etc. regards, ramkishor Architect - Video Multimedia Technologies Division Emuzed India Bangalore www.emuzed.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "pan pan pan" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2023 6:50 PM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] hi there > hi there, > i am doing my ME in signal processing,i want to do some resarch > project on MPEG4 .can any body suggest me which projects sh'd i go > for. > > thanks in advance. > > pankaj > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From zhenzhongc hotmail.com Sat Jun 7 20:24:21 2003 From: zhenzhongc hotmail.com (Zhenzhong CHEN) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] ISO compliant video sequences classification References: <1054888988.12243.11.camel@schoenberg> Message-ID: Hope this helpful. Zhenzhong The test sequences library is separated into the following classes: Class A: Low spatial detail and low amount of movement Class B: Medium spatial detail and low amount of movement or vice versa Class C: High spatial detail and medium amount of movement or vice versa Class D: Stereoscopic Class E: Hybrid natural and synthetic example: Mother & daughter A Akiyo A Hall Monitor A Container Ship A Foreman B News B Silent Voice B Table Tennis C Stefan C Mobile & Calendar C Basketball C Football C Children E Bream E Weather E ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Lambert" To: Sent: Friday, June 06, 2023 4:43 PM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] ISO compliant video sequences classification > Dear all, > > I read in an article that the test sequence "bus" was classified as a > "ISO compliant Class B Clip - High spatial detail and medium amount of > movement or vice versa". In the same article the sequence "akiyo" was > classified as a "ISO compliant Class A Clip - Low spatial detail and low > amount of movement". > > I have now the following question: How many of those ISO classes are > there and where can I find more information about them? > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks in advance! > > Kind Regards, > Peter. > > -- > Peter Lambert > > Ghent University > Department of Electronics and Information Systems > Multimedia Lab > Sint-Pietersnieuwstraat 41 > B-9000 Ghent, Belgium > > tel. +32 (0)9 264 89 29 > fax +32 (0)9 264 35 94 > email: peter.lambert@ugent.be > > URL: http://multimedialab.ugent.be/ > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From rob.koenen m4if.org Sat Jun 7 09:04:48 2003 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen (M4IF)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] ISO compliant video sequences classification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks Zhenzhong. One more remark: > > "ISO compliant Class B Clip - High spatial detail and There is nothing about these clips that is "ISO compliant". There were selected and used by MPEG to develop MPEG-4, and that's all there is to these clips. Best - Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Zhenzhong CHEN [mailto:zhenzhongc@hotmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2023 04:24 > To: Peter Lambert; technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] ISO compliant video sequences > classification > > > Hope this helpful. > > Zhenzhong > > The test sequences library is separated into the following classes: > Class A: Low spatial detail and low amount of movement > Class B: Medium spatial detail and low amount of movement or > vice versa > Class C: High spatial detail and medium amount of movement or > vice versa > Class D: Stereoscopic > Class E: Hybrid natural and synthetic > > example: > > Mother & daughter A > Akiyo A > Hall Monitor A > Container Ship A > Foreman B > News B > Silent Voice B > Table Tennis C > Stefan C > Mobile & Calendar C > Basketball C > Football C > Children E > Bream E > Weather E > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Lambert" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2023 4:43 PM > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] ISO compliant video sequences classification > > > > Dear all, > > > > I read in an article that the test sequence "bus" was > classified as a > > "ISO compliant Class B Clip - High spatial detail and > medium amount of > > movement or vice versa". In the same article the sequence > "akiyo" was > > classified as a "ISO compliant Class A Clip - Low spatial > detail and low > > amount of movement". > > > > I have now the following question: How many of those ISO classes are > > there and where can I find more information about them? > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > Kind Regards, > > Peter. > > > > -- > > Peter Lambert > > > > Ghent University > > Department of Electronics and Information Systems > > Multimedia Lab > > Sint-Pietersnieuwstraat 41 > > B-9000 Ghent, Belgium > > > > tel. +32 (0)9 264 89 29 > > fax +32 (0)9 264 35 94 > > email: peter.lambert@ugent.be > > > > URL: http://multimedialab.ugent.be/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Technotes mailing list > > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From bph_uvce yahoo.com Sun Jun 8 01:32:53 2003 From: bph_uvce yahoo.com (B.P.Harish) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] want MPEG4 video clip with multiple VOs coded Message-ID: <20030608073253.33622.qmail@web40312.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, Could u pl. mail me an MPEG4 video clip that has multiple Video Objects encoded (rectangular or arbitrary shaped coding) in it, i.e.,simple profile with multiple VOs encoded or core profile. waiting eagerly, ===== Regards, b.p.harish __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com From tm991058 fh-stpoelten.ac.at Sun Jun 8 16:48:01 2003 From: tm991058 fh-stpoelten.ac.at (tm991058) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Player overview Message-ID: <009901c32dc4$943ef620$0200a8c0@laptop> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: MPEG-4_PLAYER_OVERVIEW.zip Type: application/x-zip-compressed Size: 125116 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030608/985f625e/MPEG-4_PLAYER_OVERVIEW.bin From gene cs.ust.hk Sun Jun 8 23:19:59 2003 From: gene cs.ust.hk (Gene) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] The Fourth Workshop and Exhibtion on MPEG-4? Message-ID: Dear all, I would like to know when will the Fourth Workshop and Exhibition held? Any information? Yours, Gene From stefan.goor ucd.ie Sun Jun 8 18:32:39 2003 From: stefan.goor ucd.ie (Stefan A. Goor) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MoMuSys Control and Configuration Files Message-ID: Hi all, Does anyone have a detailed explanation of the parameters used in the MoMuSys Version 2 configuration and control files? Thanks, Stefan From oamato wanadoo.fr Sun Jun 8 20:20:44 2003 From: oamato wanadoo.fr (Olivier Amato) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Player overview References: <009901c32dc4$943ef620$0200a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: <001f01c32de2$4ebb9180$0a00000a@beck> Hello Karin, > Because I get so many replys of people who are > interested in the overview I send it to this forum... Thanks a lot for your work. You could also maybe take a look at Osoon Player ( http://www.osoonmedia.com/english/download.php ). Their samples are in .mpf file format ( ??? ), but it is able to decode some .mp4 files ( with some errors ... ). Best regards, Olivier From tma iis.fhg.de Sun Jun 8 21:26:39 2003 From: tma iis.fhg.de (Herbert Thoma) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] How to create FGS stream in MPEG4 References: <20030606202157.94299.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <3EE37FDF.2B4C816D@iis.fhg.de> munisamy Mala schrieb: > > What is SVOP in MPEG4? SVOP is Sprite VOP. The Global Motion Compensation (GMC) tool uses SVOPs. Herbert. > Thanks > Mala > -- Herbert Thoma FhG-IIS A, Studio Department Am Wolfsmantel 33, 91058 Erlangen, Germany Phone: +49-9131-776-323 Fax: +49-9131-776-399 email: tma@iis.fhg.de www: http://www.iis.fhg.de/ From yuval envivio.com Sun Jun 8 19:15:19 2003 From: yuval envivio.com (Yuval Fisher) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:40 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Player overview References: <009901c32dc4$943ef620$0200a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: <3EE3DFA7.5A62C8D4@envivio.com> Hello Karin, > I've finished my MPEG-4 Player overview.(it includes the name, > producer and mpeg-4 profiles supported of all MPEG-4 Player for PCs) > > Because I get so many replys of people who are interested in the > overview I send it to this forum...so everybody can have a look at > it.Some companies do not have a overview of the supported MPEG-4 > profiles at their homepages and didn't answer my mail.. that's why I > cannot provide the profiles for every player. Thanks for this nice document. I think that it might be worth while reviewing all the possible profiles and organizing the document this way. That is, I found varioius things under "scene graph profile" which were not relavent to the scenegraph profile. Some players had no indication of 'scene graph' or 'graphics' profiles, and others did (even if they said 'no information'). Moreover, some profile names were not correct. The profile types are: Visual, Audio, OD (but there's justone profile here), MPEG-J, Scene Graph, Graphics. For each of these, there is a list of possible profile names. Many are heirarchical, so that the Core2D graphics profile is a subset of the Advanced2D graphics profile, e.g.. You can find a list of the various profiles in some of the documents available on the MPEG-4 home page. Best, Yuval -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030608/abbd0a0f/attachment.html From hagai enquad.com Sun Jun 8 10:53:41 2003 From: hagai enquad.com (hagai folkman) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG4 encoder References: Message-ID: <009601c32e7f$5c9811a0$f12819ac@d0j0o2> Hi, Thanks for the intersting in EnQuad Core-Profile Encoder. EnQuad Encoder generates in real time arbitrary shape objects by extracting the moving objects. The encoder create a Core-Profile bitstream while each object is different elementry stream. EnQuad encoder is not yet commercial product. Morever, the EnQuad Encoder can work offline on YUV file. If I can help in some way and you can give me more details on what purpose do you need Core-Profile Encoder we can disscuss a ways to cooperate. Hagai Folkman EnQuad CTO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christoph Lampert" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2023 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG4 encoder > On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, B.P.Harish wrote: > > Dear MPEG experts, > > Do u know of an MPEG4 encoder that generates core > > profile bitstream from a .yuv file? Even a simple > > profile with multiple video objects encoding is also > > fine & preferred. Pl. mail me the URL from where I can > > download. > > Does xvidenc of MPEG4IP open source encode multiple > > VOs? ; > > No, it doesn't. > > Best regards, > > Christoph Lampert > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From ram_mandali hotmail.com Mon Jun 9 19:46:02 2003 From: ram_mandali hotmail.com (ram mohan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Can any one send me Video over IP material Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030609/bd77ebd6/attachment.html From ramki emuzed.com Tue Jun 10 10:44:30 2003 From: ramki emuzed.com (Ramkishor Korada) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Can any one send me Video over IP material References: Message-ID: <014d01c32f06$d180bc10$1b0aa8c0@blr.emuzed.com> Hi, You can go through the journal paper available at http://acts.poly.edu/chao/paper/j13.pdf This gives an overview for MPEG-4 over IP. regards, ramkishor Architect - Video Multimedia Technologies Division Emuzed India Bangalore www.emuzed.com ----- Original Message ----- From: ram mohan To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2023 12:16 AM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Can any one send me Video over IP material Hi all., I'm looking for material covering video over internet using an MPEG-4 codec. Can anyone please send it to me. Thanks Ram. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Narain Karthikeyan. He's fast, really fast. Want to meet him? _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030610/0433084d/attachment.html From christopher macnytt.com Tue Jun 10 07:34:46 2003 From: christopher macnytt.com (Christopher Blomquist) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Info about MPEG4 suffixes Message-ID: Where do i find info about "valid" MPEG4 file suffixes.. Like .MP4 and .M4V /C -- If you can?t beat them, arrange to have them beaten... From anil.kumar ittiam.com Tue Jun 10 19:24:29 2003 From: anil.kumar ittiam.com (Anil Kumar) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] AAC Conformance Message-ID: <45A1F95BB9D7D84FAB0A1EB4D67EEF9638CEBB@is01ex01.ittiam.com> Hi all, Is there any such thing as 'Limited Accuracy' conformance for AAC decoder similar to that of MP3 decoder conformance? If so, is it the same as MP3 Limited Accuracy conformance? Thanks in advance, Anil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030610/38980fd6/attachment.html From A.Thomson indigovision.com Tue Jun 10 15:15:31 2003 From: A.Thomson indigovision.com (Alan Thomson) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] AAC Conformance Message-ID: <67336BF4D5D23C4AA30EC72DFCFCA6DF517A85@peebles.indigovision.com> Not really. There are "fixed-point accuracy" criteria (which are much less strict than the full accuracy one) but I believe they only apply to CELP & TwinVQ, not AAC. Alan. -----Original Message----- From: Anil Kumar [mailto:anil.kumar@ittiam.com] Sent: 10 June 2023 13:54 To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] AAC Conformance Hi all, Is there any such thing as 'Limited Accuracy' conformance for AAC decoder similar to that of MP3 decoder conformance? If so, is it the same as MP3 Limited Accuracy conformance? Thanks in advance, Anil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030610/33e5c7ad/attachment.html From Alf.Rieckmann mobilesmartsinc.com Tue Jun 10 14:57:56 2003 From: Alf.Rieckmann mobilesmartsinc.com (Alf Rieckmann) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] AVC: scaling and transform References: <1054888988.12243.11.camel@schoenberg> Message-ID: <3EE64654.307@mobilesmartsinc.com> Hi, I have a question about AVC ('looking currently into JVT-G050r1.doc) decoding. I was wondering why the order for scaling and transform for the DC coefficients in Intra16x16 mode is reverse in comparison to the residual mode (which is the order I would have expected). Is there a document which explains the transform and scaling algorithm partitioning for Intra16x16 DC values?. Thanks for help Alf From garysull windows.microsoft.com Tue Jun 10 17:40:33 2003 From: garysull windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] AVC: scaling and transform Message-ID: <91D7F2CEE3425A4A9D11311D09FCE24602A345E1@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> The key to understanding this aspect is dynamic range analysis. By swapping the order of the inverse transform and the scaling operations for the DC coefficients in Intra16x16 mode, we keep the necessary wordlength smaller for performing the operations. The design keeps all processing requirements within 16 bits in the decoder, and keeps all memory access requirements within 16 bits in the example encoder. The DC inverse transform is a linear operator, and for values of QP greater than or equal to 12 (which is a very small step size in this codec) the scaling has the same a linear multiplier effect on every DC coefficient value. In those cases the result would be the same regardless of which order was specified (although the wordlength requirement would be greater if the scaling was first in the decoder). For very tiny QP, I also believe it is better to keep the rounding nonlinearity at the end of the process, which is where it is specified to be. For reference information, I suggest consulting JVT-B038, JVT-B039, and the vcodex white paper on the transform design (http://www.vcodex.fsnet.co.uk/h264.html). There was also a paper at last year's ICIP conference on this part of the design, and there will be one soon in the IEEE Transactions on Circuits and Systems for Video Technology. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan +> -----Original Message----- +> From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org +> [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of Alf Rieckmann +> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2023 1:58 PM +> To: technotes@lists.m4if.org +> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] AVC: scaling and transform +> +> +> Hi, +> +> I have a question about AVC ('looking currently into JVT-G050r1.doc) +> decoding. +> +> I was wondering why the order for scaling and transform for the DC +> coefficients in Intra16x16 mode is reverse in comparison to +> the residual +> mode (which is the order I would have expected). +> +> Is there a document which explains the transform and scaling +> algorithm +> partitioning for Intra16x16 DC values?. +> +> Thanks for help +> +> Alf +> +> +> _______________________________________________ +> Technotes mailing list +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes +> From cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com Wed Jun 11 11:44:11 2003 From: cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com (cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] H.264 IDR Picture Message-ID: Dear all, I would like to ask in h.264, what's the use of IDR picture mode? thx. Regards, Carmen ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ÆF®æ­·¡G ¾Ç­^»y¡A°e¢°¢´°ó´¶³q¸Ü http://www.linguaphonegroup.com/BannerTrack.asp?EMSCode=HKI03-06ETFM-0814 From ramki emuzed.com Wed Jun 11 11:12:19 2003 From: ramki emuzed.com (Ramkishor Korada) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] H.264 IDR Picture References: Message-ID: <021101c32fd3$de0d14b0$1b0aa8c0@blr.emuzed.com> Hi, IDR can be used to clear the reference frames if the reference frames available with decoder are not completely error free. Useful for streaming video over channels with packet loss or bit corruption. This is one use. regards, ramkishor Architect - Video Multimedia Technologies Division Emuzed India Bangalore www.emuzed.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2023 8:14 AM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] H.264 IDR Picture > Dear all, > > I would like to ask in h.264, what's the use of IDR picture mode? thx. > > Regards, > Carmen > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- > ?F?????G ???^?y?A?e?????????q?? > http://www.linguaphonegroup.com/BannerTrack.asp?EMSCode=HKI03-06ETFM-0814 > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From logic_cad yahoo.com Tue Jun 10 23:59:03 2003 From: logic_cad yahoo.com (George Wong) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] .mp4 file content Message-ID: <20030611055903.61040.qmail@web21502.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, I am planning to encrypt a .mp4 file. When I open up the .mp4 file using Perl-CGI, I get what appears to be Japanese characters. What format is the file? How do I determine the binary (1's and 0's) equivalent? Thanks __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com From PG02621846 ntu.edu.sg Wed Jun 11 14:53:33 2003 From: PG02621846 ntu.edu.sg (#WEI JUN#) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Packet loss RDO in H.264 Message-ID: <0C42D409AF10B1428A0B026FB160A5BE1BD79C@mail02.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Hi, I tested packet loss RDO algorithm using default configure file (RDOptimization=2, the packet loss rate are 10% for (first/second/third) partitions, 30 decoders, 1reference frame, source file: foreman.qcif) Frame Bit/pic QP SnrY SnrU SnrV Time(ms) Frm/Fld IntraMBs 0(I) 23576 28 36.8903 39.6882 41.9991 2774 FRM 1(P) 21160 28 35.6239 38.9365 40.7201 12728 FRM 99 2(P) 21392 28 35.5529 38.8518 40.7920 13149 FRM 99 3(P) 20936 28 35.5066 38.8229 40.7979 13400 FRM 90 4(P) 21160 28 35.5358 38.7110 40.9047 13850 FRM 88 5(P) 20184 28 35.5226 38.5853 40.5572 14110 FRM 82 Clearly, both the encoding time and generated bits increase. I wonder is it the best way to deal with packet loss? What's the benefit can we get from packet-loss RDO? Thanks (Results of normal RDO, RDOptimization=1) Frame Bit/pic QP SnrY SnrU SnrV Time(ms) Frm/Fld IntraMBs 0(I) 23576 28 36.8903 39.6882 41.9991 1923 FRM 1(P) 2584 28 36.3610 39.5053 41.6251 3465 FRM 0 2(P) 3480 28 36.2496 39.4714 41.5295 3475 FRM 0 3(P) 3200 28 36.0446 39.2818 41.3912 3485 FRM 0 4(P) 3456 28 35.9749 39.2935 41.1382 3485 FRM 0 5(P) 3224 28 35.8090 39.2111 40.8644 3535 FRM 0 best regards, J.Wei From bph_uvce yahoo.com Wed Jun 11 01:36:44 2003 From: bph_uvce yahoo.com (B.P.Harish) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:41 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] .mp4 file content In-Reply-To: <20030611055903.61040.qmail@web21502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030611073644.51917.qmail@web40312.mail.yahoo.com> Simple. Hexdump the .mp4 file Regards, b.p.harish --- George Wong wrote: > Hi all, > > > I am planning to encrypt a .mp4 file. > When I open up the .mp4 file using Perl-CGI, I get > what appears to be Japanese characters. > > What format is the file? > How do I determine the binary (1's and 0's) > equivalent? > > > Thanks > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to > Outlook(TM). > http://calendar.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com From singer apple.com Wed Jun 11 11:14:00 2003 From: singer apple.com (Dave Singer) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] .mp4 file content In-Reply-To: <20030611055903.61040.qmail@web21502.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030611055903.61040.qmail@web21502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: At 22:59 -0700 6/10/03, George Wong wrote: >Hi all, > > >I am planning to encrypt a .mp4 file. >When I open up the .mp4 file using Perl-CGI, I get >what appears to be Japanese characters. well, an mp4 file is not a text file, it is a binary container. there are a number of papers around on it; it is also similar to the quicktime file format (see www.apple.com/quicktime). the spec. can be bought from iso (www.iso.ch); look for 14496-1. > >What format is the file? >How do I determine the binary (1's and 0's) >equivalent? I'm not sure what you are trying to make equivalent to what. > > >Thanks > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). >http://calendar.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >Technotes mailing list >Technotes@lists.m4if.org >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -- David Singer Apple Computer/QuickTime From cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com Wed Jun 11 19:05:24 2003 From: cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com (cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] H.264 bitstream Message-ID: Dear all, I would like to ask in h.264, how would I know which Conformance Point(i.e which version of the draft standard) a particular version of JM refer to? I am currently looking at the bitstream, I find that the method of coding LEVEL in CAVLC is different. Would any one advise me on it? Thanks in advance. Regards, Carmen ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ÆF®æ­·¡G ¾Ç­^»y¡A°e¢°¢´°ó´¶³q¸Ü http://www.linguaphonegroup.com/BannerTrack.asp?EMSCode=HKI03-06ETFM-0814 From mihir ti.com Wed Jun 11 19:01:32 2003 From: mihir ti.com (Mody, Mihir) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Regarding MPEG4 ISO reference C code Message-ID: Hi, I am wondering that can anyone use part or whole of MPEG ISO reference C code for commercial purpose? The header in source file have form /* This software module was originally developed by () and edited by (), (), ... in the course of development of the . This software module is an implementation of a part of one or more tools as specified by the . ISO/IEC gives users of the free license to this software module or modifications thereof for use in hardware or software products claiming conformance to the . Those intending to use this software module in hardware or software products are advised that its use may infringe existing patents. The original developer of this software module and his/her company, the subsequent editors and their companies, and ISO/IEC have no liability for use of this software module or modifications thereof. Copyright is not released for non conforming products. retains full right to use the code for its own purpose, assign or donate the code to a third party and to inhibit third parties from using the code for non conforming products. This copyright notice must be included in all copies or derivative works. Copyright * 199_". */ Regards, Mihir -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030611/36ad098f/attachment.html From sps iis.fhg.de Wed Jun 11 16:20:14 2003 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: AAC Conformance In-Reply-To: <67336BF4D5D23C4AA30EC72DFCFCA6DF517A85@peebles.indigovision.com> References: <67336BF4D5D23C4AA30EC72DFCFCA6DF517A85@peebles.indigovision.com> Message-ID: <3EE72C8E.3060102@iis.fhg.de> Dear Anil, Alan, for AAC, there is no such thing than "Fixed-point accuracy". However, there is an accuracy measure k for the two conformance tests measurements (RMS and LSB test). On default, k=16. If you are designing a decoder which is conform to a higher or to a lower level, you might (higher) / must (lower) specify this level in your decoder specification. This variableness has been introduced lately for both, MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 AAC. You will find the details in the appropriate conformance corrigenda: * ISO/IEC 13818-4:1998/Amd.1:1999/Cor.1 (N5029, not yet published) * ISO/IEC 14496-4:2000/Cor.2 (N5042, not yet published) There, you will find the following text: RMS/LSB Measurement To fulfill the “RMS/LSB Measurement” test at an accuracy level of “K bit”, an ISO/IEC 14496-3 decoder shall provide an output waveform such that the RMS level of the difference signal between the output of the decoder under test and the supplied reference output is less than 2^-(K-1)/sqrt(12). In addition, the difference signal shall have a maximum absolute value of at most 2^-(K-2) relative to full-scale. The “RMS/LSB Measurement” test shall be carried out for an accuracy level of K=16 bit unless a different accuracy level is explicitly stated. Best regards, Ralph Alan Thomson wrote: > Not really. > > There are "fixed-point accuracy" criteria (which are much less strict > than the full accuracy one) but I believe they only apply to CELP & > TwinVQ, not AAC. > > Alan. > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* Anil Kumar [mailto:anil.kumar@ittiam.com] > *Sent:* 10 June 2023 13:54 > *To:* technotes@lists.m4if.org > *Subject:* [M4IF Technotes] AAC Conformance > > Hi all, > Is there any such thing as 'Limited Accuracy' conformance for > AAC decoder similar to that of MP3 decoder conformance? If so, is it > the same as MP3 Limited Accuracy conformance? > > Thanks in advance, > Anil -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From sps iis.fhg.de Wed Jun 11 16:36:32 2003 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Regarding MPEG4 ISO reference C code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EE73060.6080103@iis.fhg.de> Mody, Mihir wrote: > Hi, > > I am wondering that can anyone use part or whole of MPEG ISO reference C > code for commercial purpose? The header in source file have form > > /* > This software module was originally developed by () and > edited by (), (), … in the course of > development of the <_MPEG standard_>. This software module is an > implementation of a part of one or more _ tools as > specified by the <_MPEG standard_>. ISO/IEC gives users of the <_MPEG > standard_> free license to this software module or modifications thereof > for use in hardware or software products claiming conformance to the > <_MPEG standard_>. Those intending to use this software module in > hardware or software products are advised that its use may infringe > existing patents. The original developer of this software module and > his/her company, the subsequent editors and their companies, and ISO/IEC > have no liability for use of this software module or modifications > thereof. Copyright is not released for non <_MPEG standard_> conforming > products. retains full right to use the code for its own purpose, > assign or donate the code to a third party and to inhibit third parties > from using the code for non _ conforming products. This > copyright notice must be included in all copies or derivative works. > Copyright Ó 199_". > > */ > > Regards, > Mihir Dear Mihir, there are two aspects you should be aware of when using the reference software to build you own products (both are part of the disclaimer as stated above): - products have to be MPEG-4 conform - you might infringe patents rights (to overcome this you need to license the appropriate MPEG-4 IP) Best regards, Ralph -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From mihir ti.com Wed Jun 11 20:25:34 2003 From: mihir ti.com (Mody, Mihir) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: Regarding MPEG4 ISO reference C code Message-ID: Hi Ralph, The first point sounds fine, since we do conformance testing. Regarding second point, how do you know about patent infrigement? Usually vendor pays royalty when he sells his product to standard bodies. Is that is not suffice? Regards, Mihir -----Original Message----- From: Ralph Sperschneider [mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de] Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2023 7:07 PM To: Mody, Mihir Cc: 'technotes@lists.m4if.org' Subject: Re: Regarding MPEG4 ISO reference C code Mody, Mihir wrote: > Hi, > > I am wondering that can anyone use part or whole of MPEG ISO reference C > code for commercial purpose? The header in source file have form > > /* > This software module was originally developed by () and > edited by (), (), … in the course of > development of the <_MPEG standard_>. This software module is an > implementation of a part of one or more _ tools as > specified by the <_MPEG standard_>. ISO/IEC gives users of the <_MPEG > standard_> free license to this software module or modifications thereof > for use in hardware or software products claiming conformance to the > <_MPEG standard_>. Those intending to use this software module in > hardware or software products are advised that its use may infringe > existing patents. The original developer of this software module and > his/her company, the subsequent editors and their companies, and ISO/IEC > have no liability for use of this software module or modifications > thereof. Copyright is not released for non <_MPEG standard_> conforming > products. retains full right to use the code for its own purpose, > assign or donate the code to a third party and to inhibit third parties > from using the code for non _ conforming products. This > copyright notice must be included in all copies or derivative works. > Copyright Ó 199_". > > */ > > Regards, > Mihir Dear Mihir, there are two aspects you should be aware of when using the reference software to build you own products (both are part of the disclaimer as stated above): - products have to be MPEG-4 conform - you might infringe patents rights (to overcome this you need to license the appropriate MPEG-4 IP) Best regards, Ralph -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From rob.koenen m4if.org Wed Jun 11 09:10:18 2003 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen (M4IF)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: Regarding MPEG4 ISO reference C code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mihir, > The first point sounds fine, since we do conformance testing. > Regarding second point, how do you know about patent infrigement? > Usually vendor pays royalty when he sells his product to > standard bodies. Is that is not suffice? It sounds like you suggest that a vendor usually sells his product to standards bodies. That is never the case. Maybe you meant to say that an MPEG vendor pays royalties to ISO. Also that is never the case. Royalties are due to patent owners, never to ISO. > Regarding second point, how do you know about patent infrigement? You should do your own diligence. The fact that there is a patent pool may help. See http://www.m4if.org/patents for more information. Regards, Rob > > Regards, > Mihir > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ralph Sperschneider [mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de] > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2023 7:07 PM > To: Mody, Mihir > Cc: 'technotes@lists.m4if.org' > Subject: Re: Regarding MPEG4 ISO reference C code > > > Mody, Mihir wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I am wondering that can anyone use part or whole of MPEG > ISO reference C > > code for commercial purpose? The header in source file have form > > > > /* > > This software module was originally developed by > () and > > edited by (), (), in > the course of > > development of the <_MPEG standard_>. This software module is an > > implementation of a part of one or more _ tools as > > specified by the <_MPEG standard_>. ISO/IEC gives users of > the <_MPEG > > standard_> free license to this software module or > modifications thereof > > for use in hardware or software products claiming > conformance to the > > <_MPEG standard_>. Those intending to use this software module in > > hardware or software products are advised that its use may infringe > > existing patents. The original developer of this software > module and > > his/her company, the subsequent editors and their > companies, and ISO/IEC > > have no liability for use of this software module or modifications > > thereof. Copyright is not released for non <_MPEG > standard_> conforming > > products. retains full right to use the code for its > own purpose, > > assign or donate the code to a third party and to inhibit > third parties > > from using the code for non _ conforming > products. This > > copyright notice must be included in all copies or > derivative works. > > Copyright ? 199_". > > > > */ > > > > Regards, > > Mihir > > > Dear Mihir, > > there are two aspects you should be aware of when using the reference > software > to build you own products (both are part of the disclaimer as > stated above): > > - products have to be MPEG-4 conform > > - you might infringe patents rights (to overcome this you > need to license > the appropriate MPEG-4 IP) > > Best regards, > > Ralph > > -- > Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 > FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 > Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de > D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From mihir ti.com Wed Jun 11 21:55:59 2003 From: mihir ti.com (Mody, Mihir) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: Regarding MPEG4 ISO reference C code Message-ID: Rob, To summerize,If * product supports mpeg standard * Vendor of products pay royalty to the patent owners for use of mpeg standard then vendor can use the MPEG reference C code Regards, Mihir -----Original Message----- From: Rob Koenen (M4IF) [mailto:rob.koenen@m4if.org] Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2023 8:40 PM To: Mody, Mihir; 'Ralph Sperschneider' Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] RE: Regarding MPEG4 ISO reference C code Mihir, > The first point sounds fine, since we do conformance testing. > Regarding second point, how do you know about patent infrigement? > Usually vendor pays royalty when he sells his product to > standard bodies. Is that is not suffice? It sounds like you suggest that a vendor usually sells his product to standards bodies. That is never the case. Maybe you meant to say that an MPEG vendor pays royalties to ISO. Also that is never the case. Royalties are due to patent owners, never to ISO. > Regarding second point, how do you know about patent infrigement? You should do your own diligence. The fact that there is a patent pool may help. See http://www.m4if.org/patents for more information. Regards, Rob > > Regards, > Mihir > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ralph Sperschneider [mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de] > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2023 7:07 PM > To: Mody, Mihir > Cc: 'technotes@lists.m4if.org' > Subject: Re: Regarding MPEG4 ISO reference C code > > > Mody, Mihir wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I am wondering that can anyone use part or whole of MPEG > ISO reference C > > code for commercial purpose? The header in source file have form > > > > /* > > This software module was originally developed by > () and > > edited by (), (), ... in > the course of > > development of the <_MPEG standard_>. This software module is an > > implementation of a part of one or more _ tools as > > specified by the <_MPEG standard_>. ISO/IEC gives users of > the <_MPEG > > standard_> free license to this software module or > modifications thereof > > for use in hardware or software products claiming > conformance to the > > <_MPEG standard_>. Those intending to use this software module in > > hardware or software products are advised that its use may infringe > > existing patents. The original developer of this software > module and > > his/her company, the subsequent editors and their > companies, and ISO/IEC > > have no liability for use of this software module or modifications > > thereof. Copyright is not released for non <_MPEG > standard_> conforming > > products. retains full right to use the code for its > own purpose, > > assign or donate the code to a third party and to inhibit > third parties > > from using the code for non _ conforming > products. This > > copyright notice must be included in all copies or > derivative works. > > Copyright ? 199_". > > > > */ > > > > Regards, > > Mihir > > > Dear Mihir, > > there are two aspects you should be aware of when using the reference > software > to build you own products (both are part of the disclaimer as > stated above): > > - products have to be MPEG-4 conform > > - you might infringe patents rights (to overcome this you > need to license > the appropriate MPEG-4 IP) > > Best regards, > > Ralph > > -- > Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 > FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 > Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de > D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From rob.koenen m4if.org Wed Jun 11 09:42:28 2003 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen (M4IF)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:42 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] RE: Regarding MPEG4 ISO reference C code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mihir, I am afraid that yours is not an accurate summary. In fact, it is probably never a good idea to try and reword something that has been carefully crafted to say exactly what it intends to say. I suggest that you contact your legal department to advise you on how to use the reference sowftware. One thing I will say: ISO has no requirement on paying royalties, but merely makes you aware that such a requirement may exist on other grounds. Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Mody, Mihir [mailto:mihir@ti.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2023 08:26 > To: 'rob.koenen@m4if.org'; 'Ralph Sperschneider' > Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] RE: Regarding MPEG4 ISO reference C code > > > Rob, > > To summerize,If > * product supports mpeg standard > * Vendor of products pay royalty to the patent owners for use of mpeg > standard > then vendor can use the MPEG reference C code > > Regards, > Mihir > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Koenen (M4IF) [mailto:rob.koenen@m4if.org] > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2023 8:40 PM > To: Mody, Mihir; 'Ralph Sperschneider' > Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] RE: Regarding MPEG4 ISO reference C code > > > Mihir, > > > The first point sounds fine, since we do conformance testing. > > Regarding second point, how do you know about patent infrigement? > > Usually vendor pays royalty when he sells his product to > > standard bodies. Is that is not suffice? > > It sounds like you suggest that a vendor usually sells his product > to standards bodies. That is never the case. > > Maybe you meant to say that an MPEG vendor pays royalties to ISO. > Also that is never the case. Royalties are due to patent owners, > never to ISO. > > > Regarding second point, how do you know about patent infrigement? > > You should do your own diligence. The fact that there is a patent > pool may help. See http://www.m4if.org/patents for more information. > > Regards, > Rob > > > > > Regards, > > Mihir > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ralph Sperschneider [mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2023 7:07 PM > > To: Mody, Mihir > > Cc: 'technotes@lists.m4if.org' > > Subject: Re: Regarding MPEG4 ISO reference C code > > > > > > Mody, Mihir wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I am wondering that can anyone use part or whole of MPEG > > ISO reference C > > > code for commercial purpose? The header in source file have form > > > > > > /* > > > This software module was originally developed by > > () and > > > edited by (), (), ... in > > the course of > > > development of the <_MPEG standard_>. This software module is an > > > implementation of a part of one or more _ > tools as > > > specified by the <_MPEG standard_>. ISO/IEC gives users of > > the <_MPEG > > > standard_> free license to this software module or > > modifications thereof > > > for use in hardware or software products claiming > > conformance to the > > > <_MPEG standard_>. Those intending to use this software module in > > > hardware or software products are advised that its use > may infringe > > > existing patents. The original developer of this software > > module and > > > his/her company, the subsequent editors and their > > companies, and ISO/IEC > > > have no liability for use of this software module or > modifications > > > thereof. Copyright is not released for non <_MPEG > > standard_> conforming > > > products. retains full right to use the code for its > > own purpose, > > > assign or donate the code to a third party and to inhibit > > third parties > > > from using the code for non _ conforming > > products. This > > > copyright notice must be included in all copies or > > derivative works. > > > Copyright ? 199_". > > > > > > */ > > > > > > Regards, > > > Mihir > > > > > > Dear Mihir, > > > > there are two aspects you should be aware of when using the > reference > > software > > to build you own products (both are part of the disclaimer as > > stated above): > > > > - products have to be MPEG-4 conform > > > > - you might infringe patents rights (to overcome this you > > need to license > > the appropriate MPEG-4 IP) > > > > Best regards, > > > > Ralph > > > > -- > > Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 > > FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 > > Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de > > D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Technotes mailing list > > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > > From ben interframemedia.com Wed Jun 11 11:01:14 2003 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: AAC Conformance In-Reply-To: <3EE72C8E.3060102@iis.fhg.de> Message-ID: Ralph, Do I read this as saying that some AAC implementations could meaningfully decode a file to PCM at more than 16-bits, ala Dolby Digital? Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding My Book: Cleaner e-book: Compression Classes at Stanford June 30-July 4 and Aug 11-15 Compression Class in New York City, July 13 on 6/11/03 6:20, Ralph Sperschneider at sps@iis.fhg.de wrote: > for AAC, there is no such thing than "Fixed-point accuracy". However, there is > an accuracy measure k for the two conformance tests measurements (RMS and LSB > test). On default, k=16. If you are designing a decoder which is conform to a > higher or to a lower level, you might (higher) / must (lower) specify this > level > in your decoder specification. > > This variableness has been introduced lately for both, MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 AAC. > You will find the details in the appropriate conformance corrigenda: > > * ISO/IEC 13818-4:1998/Amd.1:1999/Cor.1 > (N5029, not yet published) > > * ISO/IEC 14496-4:2000/Cor.2 > (N5042, not yet published) > > There, you will find the following text: > > RMS/LSB Measurement > To fulfill the ?RMS/LSB Measurement? test at an accuracy level of ?K bit?, an > ISO/IEC 14496-3 decoder shall provide an output waveform such that the RMS > level > of the difference signal between the output of the decoder under test and the > supplied reference output is less than 2^-(K-1)/sqrt(12). In addition, the > difference signal shall have a maximum absolute value of at most 2^-(K-2) > relative to full-scale. The ?RMS/LSB Measurement? test shall be carried out > for > an accuracy level of K=16 bit unless a different accuracy level is explicitly > stated. From cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com Thu Jun 12 10:50:23 2003 From: cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com (cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] h.264 question Message-ID: Dear all, i would like to ask in h.264, what's the use of prev_intra4x4_pred_mode_flag and rem_intra4x4_pred_mode? Thanks a lot. Regards, Clover ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ÆF®æ­·¡G ¾Ç­^»y¡A°e¢°¢´°ó´¶³q¸Ü http://www.linguaphonegroup.com/BannerTrack.asp?EMSCode=HKI03-06ETFM-0814 From logic_cad yahoo.com Wed Jun 11 21:43:15 2003 From: logic_cad yahoo.com (George Wong) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Embedding mp4 player Message-ID: <20030612034315.77970.qmail@web21511.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, What ISO-compliant MPEG-4 (.mp4) media player can be embedded within HTML? So far, I am aware that the players from both Mpegable and Digimax are not embeddable since they don't support the ActiveX plugin. Thanks __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com From raghuts emuzed.com Thu Jun 12 11:34:24 2003 From: raghuts emuzed.com (RaghuTS) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] h.264 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, You can go thru the following white paper on Intra Prediction - "http://www.vcodex.fsnet.co.uk/h264_intrapred.pdf". It contains the answer for your question. Regards, Raghu TS -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2023 7:20 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] h.264 question Dear all, i would like to ask in h.264, what's the use of prev_intra4x4_pred_mode_flag and rem_intra4x4_pred_mode? Thanks a lot. Regards, Clover ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ?F?????G ???^?y?A?e?????????q?? http://www.linguaphonegroup.com/BannerTrack.asp?EMSCode=HKI03-06ETFM-0814 _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From bfelts envivio.com Wed Jun 11 23:11:49 2003 From: bfelts envivio.com (Boris Felts) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Embedding mp4 player In-Reply-To: <0ADFC3A378B7B2408351059DCC465DAD360894@xchange.sfo.envivio.com> Message-ID: <0ADFC3A378B7B2408351059DCC465DAD41CE2F@xchange.sfo.envivio.com> Here are some: QuickTime Player (with or without Envivio plug-in) RealPlayer (with Envivio plug-in) Windows Media player (with Envivio plug-in) Boris > -----Original Message----- > From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes- > admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of George Wong > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2023 8:43 PM > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Embedding mp4 player > > Hi, > > What ISO-compliant MPEG-4 (.mp4) media player can be > embedded within HTML? > > So far, I am aware that the players from both Mpegable > and Digimax are not embeddable since they don't > support the ActiveX plugin. > > > Thanks > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). > http://calendar.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From ben interframemedia.com Thu Jun 12 00:26:36 2003 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Embedding mp4 player In-Reply-To: <20030612034315.77970.qmail@web21511.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: George, You can embed RealOne into HTML via ActiveX, and it supports the Envivio plugin. Embed RealOne with a .mp4 file, and it should automatically download Envivio even if it wasn't already installed. You can embed Windows Media Player as well, but it won't automatically download Envivio if it isn't already installed. Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding My Book: Cleaner e-book: Compression Classes at Stanford June 30-July 4 and Aug 11-15 Compression Class in New York City, July 13 on 6/11/03 20:43, George Wong at logic_cad@yahoo.com wrote: > What ISO-compliant MPEG-4 (.mp4) media player can be > embedded within HTML? > > So far, I am aware that the players from both Mpegable > and Digimax are not embeddable since they don't > support the ActiveX plugin. From Guido.Franceschini TILAB.COM Thu Jun 12 09:56:44 2003 From: Guido.Franceschini TILAB.COM (Franceschini Guido) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Embedding mp4 player Message-ID: <3737D9839ED3D3408C73611BDA907A0419EE75@EXC2K05A.cselt.it> TILAB has such a player, but this is not freely downloadable. TILAB (formerly CSELT) has provided the 2d player to the MPEG-4 Reference Software for years, then turned it into a product, for selected customers. We are not very active in advertising it -though :(( We support video H263, MPEG-4 SP, ASP and more, MPEG-2, and various audio decoders including AAC, AMR, MP3 We support MPEG-4 Systems (fully support of 2D graphics), MP4 and 3GP files (including fragmented movies), ISMA protocols and more Guido Franceschini TILAB - Multimedia Division Via G.Reiss Romoli 274 I-10148 Torino, Italy tel + 39 011 228 6137 fax + 39 011 228 6299 -----Original Message----- From: George Wong [mailto:logic_cad@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2023 5:43 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Embedding mp4 player Hi, What ISO-compliant MPEG-4 (.mp4) media player can be embedded within HTML? So far, I am aware that the players from both Mpegable and Digimax are not embeddable since they don't support the ActiveX plugin. Thanks __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes ==================================================================== CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons above and may contain confidential information. If you have received the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete the message. Should you have any questions, please contact us by replying to MailAdmin@tilab.com. Thank you ==================================================================== From sps iis.fhg.de Thu Jun 12 15:03:53 2003 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: AAC Conformance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EE86C29.5020007@iis.fhg.de> Ben Waggoner wrote: > Ralph, > > Do I read this as saying that some AAC implementations could > meaningfully decode a file to PCM at more than 16-bits, ala Dolby Digital? Ben, I am not involved into the details of AC3 (Dolby Digital), but for AAC this is definitely true. The accuracy depends on the rounding schemes used in the decoder. There are several points in the decoding algorithm where you most likely want to round the result of an operation. The most obvious one is the IMDCT filterbank. It usually puts out float values, which you will round to integer values in order to put them into a wave file. All reference waveforms are provided with 24 bit resolution, so you can easily test your decoder up to an accuracy of 23 bit. Best regards, Ralph > > > Ben Waggoner > Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding > > My Book: > Cleaner e-book: > > Compression Classes at Stanford June 30-July 4 and Aug 11-15 > > > Compression Class in New York City, July 13 > > > > > > on 6/11/03 6:20, Ralph Sperschneider at sps@iis.fhg.de wrote: > >>for AAC, there is no such thing than "Fixed-point accuracy". However, there is >>an accuracy measure k for the two conformance tests measurements (RMS and LSB >>test). On default, k=16. If you are designing a decoder which is conform to a >>higher or to a lower level, you might (higher) / must (lower) specify this >>level >>in your decoder specification. >> >>This variableness has been introduced lately for both, MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 AAC. >>You will find the details in the appropriate conformance corrigenda: >> >>* ISO/IEC 13818-4:1998/Amd.1:1999/Cor.1 >> (N5029, not yet published) >> >>* ISO/IEC 14496-4:2000/Cor.2 >> (N5042, not yet published) >> >>There, you will find the following text: >> >>RMS/LSB Measurement >>To fulfill the ?RMS/LSB Measurement? test at an accuracy level of ?K bit?, an >>ISO/IEC 14496-3 decoder shall provide an output waveform such that the RMS >>level >>of the difference signal between the output of the decoder under test and the >>supplied reference output is less than 2^-(K-1)/sqrt(12). In addition, the >>difference signal shall have a maximum absolute value of at most 2^-(K-2) >>relative to full-scale. The ?RMS/LSB Measurement? test shall be carried out >>for >>an accuracy level of K=16 bit unless a different accuracy level is explicitly >>stated. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From mykim us.ibm.com Thu Jun 12 11:01:56 2003 From: mykim us.ibm.com (Michelle Y Kim) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Embedding mp4 player In-Reply-To: <20030612034315.77970.qmail@web21511.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: George, >What ISO-compliant MPEG-4 (.mp4) media player can be embedded within HTML? The IBM Java Applet player for MPEG-4 ( http://www.research.ibm.com/mpeg4/Demos/index.htm) can be embedded within HTML (to be delivered over HTTP or RTP/RTSP) without requiring any plugin support. For further information, you can e-mail IBM alphaWorks, awlicense@us.ibm.com. Regards, Michelle Dr. Michelle Y. Kim, IBM T. J. Watson Research Center Manager, Composite Media Technologies Group mykim@us.ibm.com (e-mail) (914) 784-7709 (voice) (914) 784-7455 (fax) George Wong Sent by: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org 06/11/2023 11:43 PM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org cc: Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Embedding mp4 player Hi, What ISO-compliant MPEG-4 (.mp4) media player can be embedded within HTML? So far, I am aware that the players from both Mpegable and Digimax are not embeddable since they don't support the ActiveX plugin. Thanks __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030612/cd7199aa/attachment.html From kh237 cornell.edu Thu Jun 12 19:42:21 2003 From: kh237 cornell.edu (Keigo Hirakawa) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] AC prediction Message-ID: Hi. I have a tedious question about AC prediction. In section 7.4.3.3 of the MPEG4 spec, a formula is given to compute the quantized AC coefficients. For the sake of discussion, let's restrict our attention to the case when block 'A' is selected: QF_X[0][i] = PQF_X[0][i]+(QF_A[0][i]*QP_A)//QP_X In this formula, (QF_A[0][i]*QP_A) is effectively an inverse quantization step. However, it differs from the inverse quantization step outlined in section 7.4.4.2.1 (or section 7.4.4.1.2). So, in order to decode the MPEG4 binary file, the decoder must perform inverse quantization step twice, using two different techniques. My question is this: it seems to make more sense to me if (QF_A[0][i]*QP_A) in section 7.4.3.3 were replaced with the inverse quantization step outlined in section 7.4.4.2.1. That way, the decoder would be simpler. In addition, I suspect that the formula in 7.4.4.2.1 is better than doing (QF_A[0][i]*QP_A). So, why was MPEG4 designed this way? Is there an advantage to the way it is written in MPEG4 spec? Thank you! Keigo Hirakawa From garysull windows.microsoft.com Thu Jun 12 20:46:39 2003 From: garysull windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:43 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] AC prediction Message-ID: <91D7F2CEE3425A4A9D11311D09FCE24602A34617@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Hirakawa-san, You have hit a personal sore spot. I and some others tried to persuade the committee to specify this part of the design to be done differently (as in H.263 Annex I). But I suppose we were not sufficiently effective in our efforts at persuasion. Anyhow, it works. And when something in a standard works, you don't necessarily need a good answer when you ask why it is the way it is. You just do it because that's how you get interoperability. Every design has a few quirks. Note that Simple profile level 0 is specified in a way that avoids this issue. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan +> -----Original Message----- +> From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org +> [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of Keigo Hirakawa +> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2023 6:42 PM +> To: technotes@lists.m4if.org +> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] AC prediction +> +> +> Hi. I have a tedious question about AC prediction. +> +> In section 7.4.3.3 of the MPEG4 spec, a formula is given to +> compute the +> quantized AC coefficients. For the sake of discussion, +> let's restrict our +> attention to the case when block 'A' is selected: +> +> QF_X[0][i] = PQF_X[0][i]+(QF_A[0][i]*QP_A)//QP_X +> +> In this formula, (QF_A[0][i]*QP_A) is effectively an inverse +> quantization +> step. However, it differs from the inverse quantization +> step outlined in +> section 7.4.4.2.1 (or section 7.4.4.1.2). So, in order to +> decode the MPEG4 +> binary file, the decoder must perform inverse quantization +> step twice, using +> two different techniques. +> +> My question is this: it seems to make more sense to me if +> (QF_A[0][i]*QP_A) +> in section 7.4.3.3 were replaced with the inverse +> quantization step outlined +> in section 7.4.4.2.1. That way, the decoder would be +> simpler. In addition, +> I suspect that the formula in 7.4.4.2.1 is better than doing +> (QF_A[0][i]*QP_A). So, why was MPEG4 designed this way? Is there an +> advantage to the way it is written in MPEG4 spec? +> +> Thank you! +> Keigo Hirakawa +> +> +> _______________________________________________ +> Technotes mailing list +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes +> From bph_uvce yahoo.com Sun Jun 15 05:44:20 2003 From: bph_uvce yahoo.com (B.P.Harish) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] problems with BifsEnc & MP4Enc Message-ID: <20030615114420.17266.qmail@web40310.mail.yahoo.com> Hello Experts, I tried BifsEnc & MP4Enc & generated a .mp4 file that I can't play Error:can't open Why? 1.In MuxInfo structure, if I use streamData to specify frame rate as 30fps, I get error: streamData:Unrecognised field name 30fps:Unexpected symbol(Refer MUx.doc) I need to specify frame rate as default is only 15fps. How do I do that? 4.I have 2 MPEG4 compressed VOs(foreground & background) in 2 media files. How do I multiplex them using Mux or MP4Encode so that they exactly fit. I mean what changes do I make in .scene & .script files? Thanks in advance. Regards, b.p.harish __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From jwalant.desai wipro.com Mon Jun 16 13:35:59 2003 From: jwalant.desai wipro.com (Jwalant Desai) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 1MV/4MV comparisons Message-ID: Hi all, Does anyone have statistical data on how much PSNR improvement (for the same target bitrate) can be achieved if we use 4 MV instead of 1MV in MPEG-4 simple profile encoding? I am looking for data such as: 1. All macroblocks encoded with 1 MV : xxx dB PSNR 2. All macroblocks encoded with 4 MV : yyy dB PSNR 3. Encoding with dynamic switch between 1 MV and 4 MV (based on complexity of the macroblock) : zzz dB PSNR It is assumed that all other parameters are same. In case statistical data is not available, any other qualitative comments are also welcome. My related question is: Under what situation, is it better to implement 4 MV as compared to 1 MV? Best regards Jwalant **************************Disclaimer************************************ Information contained in this E-MAIL being proprietary to Wipro Limited is 'privileged' and 'confidential' and intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed. You are notified that any use, copying or dissemination of the information contained in the E-MAIL in any manner whatsoever is strictly prohibited. *************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030616/56bd1161/attachment.html From k.mohanarangan gdatech.co.in Mon Jun 16 17:21:00 2003 From: k.mohanarangan gdatech.co.in (mohan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] H.264 encoded stream References: Message-ID: <003001c333f5$2e1a3760$9b00a8c0@mohan> hi, where can i get H.264 encoded stream? regards,Mohan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2023 8:14 AM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] H.264 IDR Picture > Dear all, > > I would like to ask in h.264, what's the use of IDR picture mode? thx. > > Regards, > Carmen > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- > ?F?????G ???^?y?A?e?????????q?? > http://www.linguaphonegroup.com/BannerTrack.asp?EMSCode=HKI03-06ETFM-0814 > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > From liu_joel yahoo.com.cn Sat Jun 14 19:13:19 2003 From: liu_joel yahoo.com.cn (=?gb2312?q?liu=20joel?=) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Ask for help on VLC coding Message-ID: <20030614101319.4241.qmail@web15305.mail.bjs.yahoo.com> I'm writing a H.263 encoder programe , now when i got coded data and convert it to tga format using tmn decoder, i found only the top half of the picture can be show , and a bad block can be see at the last slice.And when i using tmn decoder convert coded data i saw tmn printed a fatal messege on screen. At first i think there maybe a wrong VLC codeword, but when i use a programe left the fatal block(8X8 point ) to the top line ,the fatal take place at another place.:( i don't know what happen,i wonder if anyone can give me some advice. And i want to know if i use mbsyn signal,the problem can be correct... Thanks. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? "Á÷Á¬ÍøÂçÊÀ½çµÄ¡°Ä㡱ÊÇË­£¿ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030614/c9847157/attachment.html From ycchang mmu.edu.my Mon Jun 16 16:19:48 2003 From: ycchang mmu.edu.my (Yoong-Choon CHANG) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] H.264 Error Resilience Message-ID: <03b501c333d7$abf43780$e71a640a@cyber.mmu.edu.my> Hi. I would like to ask some questions on H.264 1) Does H.264 support error resilience functions, (Resynchronization Marker, HEC, RVLC & data partitioning)? 2) What is the minimum and maximum bitrate for H.264? 3) What is the main application for H.264? for mobile video communications? many thanks in advance for your help. regards ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yoong-Choon CHANG Multimedia University, Faculty of Engineering, 63100, Cyberjaya, Selangor, Malaysia. Tel : +(60) 3 - 83125333 Fax : +(60) 3 - 83183029 Email: ycchang@mmu.edu.my Web : http://foe.mmu.edu.my ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030616/9e80a9ba/attachment.html From ycchang mmu.edu.my Mon Jun 16 17:29:50 2003 From: ycchang mmu.edu.my (Yoong-Choon CHANG) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Reference Software Message-ID: <001301c333e1$7485f4a0$e71a640a@cyber.mmu.edu.my> Hi. Is Microsoft-FDAM1-2.3-001213 the latest version of Microsoft MPEG-4 reference software? thanks. regards ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yoong-Choon CHANG Multimedia University, Faculty of Engineering, 63100, Cyberjaya, Selangor, Malaysia. Tel : +(60) 3 - 83125333 Fax : +(60) 3 - 83183029 Email: ycchang@mmu.edu.my Web : http://foe.mmu.edu.my ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030616/d4885ff5/attachment.html From tapn8 sussex.ac.uk Mon Jun 16 14:04:50 2003 From: tapn8 sussex.ac.uk (Anthony Kavassis) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] distributed 3D rendering for MPEG-4 Message-ID: <001c01c333ff$7d1f5bb0$6964b88b@VLSIGraphics.engg.susx.ac.uk> Dear all, please accept my apologies if this is not the right mailing list. I am PhD research student at the Centre for VLSI and Computer Graphics at the University of Sussex, UK doing work on bandwidth/rendering efficiency methods for transmitting 3D with MPEG-4. The reason I am posting this is to kindly ask if there has been any work done on distributed 3D rendering for MPEG-4 to your knowledge? Kind regards, Anthony Kavassis ----------------------------------------------------------- Centre for VLSI and Computer Graphics University of Sussex School of Engineering and IT Falmer, Brighton BN1 9QT ---------------------------------------- Anthony Kavassis Research Student Phone: +44 1273 872622 ----------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030616/2b690358/attachment.html From garysull windows.microsoft.com Mon Jun 16 13:13:54 2003 From: garysull windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:44 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Ask for help on VLC coding Message-ID: <91D7F2CEE3425A4A9D11311D09FCE24602A34652@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternativeFrom garysull windows.microsoft.com Mon Jun 16 13:13:54 2003 From: garysull windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:45 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] H.264 Error Resilience Message-ID: <91D7F2CEE3425A4A9D11311D09FCE24602A34653@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From garysull windows.microsoft.com Mon Jun 16 13:13:54 2003 From: garysull windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:46 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] H.264 encoded stream Message-ID: <91D7F2CEE3425A4A9D11311D09FCE24602A34655@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> In ftp://ftp.imtc-files.org/jvt-experts/bitstream-exchange. I suggest subscribing to the JVT experts list (at http://mail.imtc.org/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=jvt-experts) for those getting into details about that spec. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan +> -----Original Message----- +> From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org +> [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of mohan +> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2023 3:51 AM +> To: cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com +> Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org +> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] H.264 encoded stream +> +> +> hi, +> where can i get H.264 encoded stream? +> regards,Mohan +> ----- Original Message ----- +> From: +> To: +> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2023 8:14 AM +> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] H.264 IDR Picture +> +> +> > Dear all, +> > +> > I would like to ask in h.264, what's the use of IDR +> picture mode? thx. +> > +> > Regards, +> > Carmen +> > +> > +> ------------------------------------------------------------- +> ------------- +> --------- +> > ?F?????G ???^?y?A?e?????????q?? +> > +> http://www.linguaphonegroup.com/BannerTrack.asp?EMSCode=HKI03 -06ETFM-0814 > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From ssurui 263.net Tue Jun 17 10:48:30 2003 From: ssurui 263.net (ssurui) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:47 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Fractional motion Estimation Message-ID: <003501c33472$8f3cfa00$230000c0@ssurui> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 11455 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030617/964a144d/attachment.jpeg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 12918 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030617/964a144d/attachment-0001.jpeg From trevorncy yahoo.com.hk Tue Jun 17 15:13:43 2003 From: trevorncy yahoo.com.hk (=?big5?q?Trevor=20NG?=) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:47 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] System for H.264 Message-ID: <20030617061343.16851.qmail@web20505.mail.yahoo.com> Dear experts, I am a newbie here. It seems that the Systems used to deliver the H.264 bitstream has not been standized yet. Can somebody here tell me if MPEG-4 part I Systems is still the main standard for delivering AVC and AAC bitstreams? How many company support this? Regards, Trevor Cheer Up! Hong Kong - ¨}¦n¥ø·~¤½¥Á¹B°Ê -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030617/65f9d8f0/attachment.html From trevor astri.org Tue Jun 17 11:56:12 2003 From: trevor astri.org (Trevor NG) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:47 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] System for H.264 Message-ID: <000a01c3347c$03486110$4804050a@TrevorNg> Hi, I am a newbie here. It seems that the Systems used to deliver the H.264 bitstream has not been standized yet. Can somebody here tell me if MPEG-4 part I Systems is still the main standard for delivering AVC and AAC bitstreams? How many company support this? By the way, Could somebody tell me how I can join this list? Regards, Trevor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030617/10827cc1/attachment.html From Apoorva soc-soft.com Tue Jun 17 17:21:41 2003 From: Apoorva soc-soft.com (Apoorva Ankad) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Searching for Test Streams which are PNS encoded ( AL09, AL10, AL11 ) Message-ID: Dear AAC Experts, I am searching for some AAC test streams, which are encoded with PNS ( AL09, AL10, AL11 ). Could any one of you kindly tell me where I can get these ? Apoorva M. Ankad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030617/d549325c/attachment.html From bph_uvce yahoo.com Tue Jun 17 06:53:12 2003 From: bph_uvce yahoo.com (B.P.Harish) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Layout based segmentation Message-ID: <20030617125312.3855.qmail@web40310.mail.yahoo.com> Dear experts, Is it possible to do segmentation of a MPEG4 coded single image based on layout, without using any of the complex segmentation algorithms developed for object based encoding, for the purpose of content based retrieval. To clarify, given MPEG4 encoded single image having a bird flying in sky, is it possible to detect the boundaries/edges of the bird, for the purpose of "content based" retrieval. If so, could u pl. advise me on how I can go about it? Thanks in advance, Regards, b.p.harish __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From eric f2f-inc.com Tue Jun 17 12:52:36 2003 From: eric f2f-inc.com (Eric Petajan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] distributed 3D rendering for MPEG-4 References: <001c01c333ff$7d1f5bb0$6964b88b@VLSIGraphics.engg.susx.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3EEF3945.40835259@f2f-inc.com> Anthony, I don't know of any work on distributed rendering using MPEG-4 but the standard contains all of the tools that you need to put such a system together including video/image and 3D model/environment coding. Note that rendering algorithms are not standardized in MPEG-4. -eric > Anthony Kavassis wrote: > > Dear all, > > please accept my apologies if this is not the right mailing list. I > am PhD research student at the Centre for VLSI and Computer Graphics > at the University of Sussex, UK doing work on bandwidth/rendering > efficiency methods for transmitting 3D with MPEG-4. The reason I am > posting this is to kindly ask if there has been any work done on > distributed 3D rendering for MPEG-4 to your knowledge? > > > > Kind regards, > > > Anthony Kavassis > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Centre for VLSI and Computer Graphics > University of Sussex > School of Engineering and IT > Falmer, Brighton > BN1 9QT > ---------------------------------------- > Anthony Kavassis > Research Student > Phone: +44 1273 872622 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > -- Dr. Eric Petajan Chief Scientist and Founder face2face animation, inc. 2 Kent Place Blvd, Summit, NJ 07901 cell. 908-399-5750 off. 908-598-7460 x5803 fax 908-598-1965 www.f2fanimation.com From garysull windows.microsoft.com Tue Jun 17 13:08:57 2003 From: garysull windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Fractional motion Estimation Message-ID: <91D7F2CEE3425A4A9D11311D09FCE24602A34668@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 11455 bytes Desc: 4.jpg Url : /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030617/e1ef94bc/attachment.jpeg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 12918 bytes Desc: 9.jpg Url : /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030617/e1ef94bc/attachment-0001.jpeg From echoy qualcomm.com Tue Jun 17 18:39:09 2003 From: echoy qualcomm.com (Eddie Choy) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Searching for Test Streams which are PNS encoded ( AL09, AL10, AL11 ) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030617172539.01804f10@unixmail.qualcomm.com> According to ISO/IEC 14496-4:2000/Amd.1:2001(E), it says that AL18 and AL19 are the conformance bitstreams for PNS. They are available in: ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4@ftp.iis.fhg.de/guests/mpeg4audio/incoming/testSequences/mpeg4audio-conformance/compressedMp4/ I am not sure what happened to AL09-AL11; they are probably obsolete. Regards, Eddie At 04:21 PM 6/17/2003 +0530, Apoorva Ankad wrote: >Dear AAC Experts, > > I am searching for some AAC test streams, which are encoded > with PNS ( AL09, AL10, AL11 ). Could any one of you kindly tell me where > I can get these ? > > > >Apoorva M. Ankad > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030617/ecc45132/attachment.html From ramki emuzed.com Wed Jun 18 12:02:08 2003 From: ramki emuzed.com (Ramkishor Korada) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:48 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 1MV/4MV comparisons References: Message-ID: <038301c3355a$fca6e270$1b0aa8c0@blr.emuzed.com> MessageHi Jwalant, 4MV is going to be useful when local motion exists with in a 16x16 macroblock.The performance gains are depending on the decision making involved. Gains in the range of 0.1 to 0.3 dB can be expected. regards, ramkishor Architect - Video Multimedia Technologies Division Emuzed India Bangalore www.emuzed.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jwalant Desai To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Sent: Monday, June 16, 2023 12:35 PM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 1MV/4MV comparisons Hi all, Does anyone have statistical data on how much PSNR improvement (for the same target bitrate) can be achieved if we use 4 MV instead of 1MV in MPEG-4 simple profile encoding? I am looking for data such as: 1. All macroblocks encoded with 1 MV : xxx dB PSNR 2. All macroblocks encoded with 4 MV : yyy dB PSNR 3. Encoding with dynamic switch between 1 MV and 4 MV (based on complexity of the macroblock) : zzz dB PSNR It is assumed that all other parameters are same. In case statistical data is not available, any other qualitative comments are also welcome. My related question is: Under what situation, is it better to implement 4 MV as compared to 1 MV? Best regards Jwalant **************************Disclaimer************************************ Information contained in this E-MAIL being proprietary to Wipro Limited is 'privileged' and 'confidential' and intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed. You are notified that any use, copying or dissemination of the information contained in the E-MAIL in any manner whatsoever is strictly prohibited. *************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030618/60762374/attachment.html From raksraj yahoo.com Tue Jun 17 23:59:23 2003 From: raksraj yahoo.com (Rakesh Rajan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] PLEASE REMOVE In-Reply-To: <20030618053209.11032.qmail@webmail16.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <20030618055923.5450.qmail@web40501.mail.yahoo.com> Please remove me from this mail list deepak v s wrote: Dear Experts, Iam working on MPEG-2 AAC. Iam in search of algorithm on basis of which window shape switching is made between SINE and KBD window shapes in block switching.If anybody has idea about it or any links where I can get details pls throw light on this . Thank You, Regards Deepak --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030617/6a2b3530/attachment.html From rob.koenen m4if.org Wed Jun 18 00:05:52 2003 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen (M4IF)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Layout based segmentation In-Reply-To: <20030617125312.3855.qmail@web40310.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: b.p., > Is it possible to do segmentation of a MPEG4 coded > single image based on layout, without using any of the > complex segmentation algorithms developed for object > based encoding, for the purpose of content based > retrieval. This will only work if you receive a pre-segmented, object-based scene with separate objects. There aren't a lot of those around at the moment. > To clarify, given MPEG4 encoded single image having a > bird flying in sky, is it possible to detect the > boundaries/edges of the bird, for the purpose of > "content based" retrieval. I am afraid you need to do the hard work yourself. That said, there is a lot of literature on segmentation. Good luck, Rob From rob.koenen m4if.org Wed Jun 18 00:09:52 2003 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen (M4IF)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] PLEASE REMOVE In-Reply-To: <20030618055923.5450.qmail@web40501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Rakesh and all on this list: As you subscribed yourself to the list, we consider it your own responsibility to unsubscribe if you are no longer interested. We can do this but even for one person it is considerable effort. You can remove yourself using the email with your password that you receive every 1st of the month. If you do not have that email anymore, you can go here to retrieve your password and edit your settings (and unsubscribe): http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes Please do NOT send admin emails to the list. Kind Regards, Rob -----Original Message----- From: Rakesh Rajan [mailto:raksraj@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2023 22:59 To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] PLEASE REMOVE Please remove me from this mail list deepak v s wrote: Dear Experts, Iam working on MPEG-2 AAC. Iam in search of algorithm on basis of which window shape switching is made between SINE and KBD window shapes in block switching.If anybody has idea about it or any links where I can get details pls throw light on this . Thank You, Regards Deepak _____ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030617/ce894057/attachment.html From garysull windows.microsoft.com Wed Jun 18 00:27:00 2003 From: garysull windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:49 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 1MV/4MV comparisons Message-ID: <91D7F2CEE3425A4A9D11311D09FCE24602A34670@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From garysull windows.microsoft.com Wed Jun 18 00:32:35 2003 From: garysull windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 1MV/4MV comparisons Message-ID: <91D7F2CEE3425A4A9D11311D09FCE24602A34671@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From PG02621846 ntu.edu.sg Wed Jun 18 16:08:41 2003 From: PG02621846 ntu.edu.sg (#WEI JUN#) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Rate control in MPEG-4 VM 18 Message-ID: <0C42D409AF10B1428A0B026FB160A5BEE04180@mail02.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Hi, any one could tell me what's the rate control in MPEG-4 VM18? Is it still MPEG4 Q2? thanks Best regards, J.Wei From cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com Wed Jun 18 17:26:22 2003 From: cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com (cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: H.264 data partition Message-ID: Dear all, I would like to ask in H.264, what's the use of Data Partitiion? And what's the meaning of Coded slice data partition A, B and C respectively? Thanks a lot. regards, Clover ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ÆF®æ­·: ¾Ç­^»y¡A§K¶O¾Ç¤é»y http://www.linguaphonegroup.com/BannerTrack.asp?EMSCode=HKI03-06ETFJ-0814 From Apoorva soc-soft.com Wed Jun 18 17:09:33 2003 From: Apoorva soc-soft.com (Apoorva Ankad) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) Message-ID: Dear Experts, When we get some non meaningful sequence in the bit stream, then are we suppose to correct the window sequence and, then decode or we have to decode the sequence as we obtain? According to the standard, The meaningful block transitions are as follows: from ONLY_LONG_SEQUENCE to { LONG_START_SEQUENCE ONLY_LONG_SEQUENCE from LONG_START_SEQUENCE to { LONG_STOP_SEQUENCE EIGHT_SHORT_SEQUENCE from LONG_STOP_SEQUENCE to { LONG_START_SEQUENCE ONLY_LONG_SEQUENCE from EIGHT_SHORT_SEQUENCE to { LONG_STOP_SEQUENCE EIGHT_SHORT_SEQUENCE In addition to the meaningful block transitions the following transitions are possible: from ONLY_LONG_SEQUENCE to { LONG_STOP_SEQUENCE EIGHT_SHORT_SEQUENCE from LONG_START_SEQUENCE to { LONG_START_SEQUENCE ONLY_LONG_SEQUENCE from LONG_STOP_SEQUENCE to { LONG_STOP_SEQUENCE EIGHT_SHORT_SEQUENCE from EIGHT_SHORT_SEQUENCE to { LONG_START_SEQUENCE ONLY_LONG_SEQUENCE I am getting some difference with the reference PCM bit streams when I consider streams with non meaningful window sequence (AL03). If the non meaningful window sequence is encountered then what is to be done? Thanking you, Apoorva M. Ankad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030618/6abeb396/attachment.html From Apoorva soc-soft.com Wed Jun 18 17:26:42 2003 From: Apoorva soc-soft.com (Apoorva Ankad) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Non meaningful Window sequence Message-ID: Dear Experts, When we get some non meaningful sequence in the bit stream, then are we suppose to correct the window sequence and, then decode or we have to decode the sequence as we obtain? According to the standard, The meaningful block transitions are as follows: from ONLY_LONG_SEQUENCE to { LONG_START_SEQUENCE ONLY_LONG_SEQUENCE from LONG_START_SEQUENCE to { LONG_STOP_SEQUENCE EIGHT_SHORT_SEQUENCE from LONG_STOP_SEQUENCE to { LONG_START_SEQUENCE ONLY_LONG_SEQUENCE from EIGHT_SHORT_SEQUENCE to { LONG_STOP_SEQUENCE EIGHT_SHORT_SEQUENCE In addition to the meaningful block transitions the following transitions are possible: from ONLY_LONG_SEQUENCE to { LONG_STOP_SEQUENCE EIGHT_SHORT_SEQUENCE from LONG_START_SEQUENCE to { LONG_START_SEQUENCE ONLY_LONG_SEQUENCE from LONG_STOP_SEQUENCE to { LONG_STOP_SEQUENCE EIGHT_SHORT_SEQUENCE from EIGHT_SHORT_SEQUENCE to { LONG_START_SEQUENCE ONLY_LONG_SEQUENCE I am getting some difference with the reference PCM bit streams when I consider streams with non meaningful window sequence (AL03). If the non meaningful window sequence is encountered then what is to be done? Thanking you, Apoorva M. Ankad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030618/c4eed440/attachment.html From bph_uvce yahoo.com Wed Jun 18 03:53:11 2003 From: bph_uvce yahoo.com (B.P.Harish) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Layout based segmentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030618095311.11568.qmail@web40311.mail.yahoo.com> Sir, Thanks for ur response. --- "Rob Koenen (M4IF)" wrote: > b.p., > This will only work if you receive a pre-segmented, > object-based scene with separate objects. There > aren't > a lot of those around at the moment. Could u mail me few such video clips if you have, as the same would help in my experiments. Regards, b.p.harish __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From jimbowen56 hotmail.com Wed Jun 18 16:05:30 2003 From: jimbowen56 hotmail.com (Jim Bowen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] transparent_mb() Message-ID: Hi all, In the visual standard, what does it mean when it says a transparent_mb()?? Is this a macroblock with the coded block pattern for both luminance and chrominance all zeros?? or is it refering to a macroblock that is not part of a shape that cannot be seen (and then how would a simple profile decoder deal with it)?? Thanks, Jim _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From jc sj.co.uk Wed Jun 18 17:09:32 2003 From: jc sj.co.uk (John Cox) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:50 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] AAC: PNS scale factors Message-ID: Hi The standard says (ISO/IEC 14496-3:2001(E); 4.6.13.3 page 174) that the initial scale factor for PNS values is: scale = 1/(size * sqrt(MEAN_NRG)); however the reference software from the ISO site (both refSoft & rewrite) seems to calculate it as: scale = 1/sqrt(size * MEAN_NRG)); Which is "correct" and what have other people done? I've found the PNS reference streams AL18*.mp4 & AL19*.mp4 (though not AL09,10,11) but no corresponding .wavs to check against - do they exist anywhere? Many thanks John Cox SJ Consulting From ramakrishna_kakarala agilent.com Wed Jun 18 12:02:53 2003 From: ramakrishna_kakarala agilent.com (ramakrishna_kakarala@agilent.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] video packet length Message-ID: <999F6F1E8EB8D311AC190090277A7726137B7584@axcs08.cos.agilent.com> Hi, How is video packet length signalled to the decoder? I don't see a field for it in the video bitstream syntax. I know the *maximum* length is specified (if data partitioning is used) but I don't know how the actual value is signalled. Is it signalled in the systems layer? If the packet length is not signalled, then how does fixed interval synchronization work? thanks for your help Ram --------------------------------- Ramakrishna Kakarala Agilent Technologies 5301 Stevens Creek Blvd, MS 51L-GX Santa Clara, CA 95052-8059 ramakrishna_kakarala@agilent.com Tel (408) 553-2349 Fax (408) 553-3794> From garysull windows.microsoft.com Wed Jun 18 12:44:57 2003 From: garysull windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] video packet length Message-ID: <91D7F2CEE3425A4A9D11311D09FCE24602A34673@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> I believe there is no signal of video packet length in an MPEG-4 Visual bitstream. The decoder can (and shall) determine the length by examining the values of the bits in the stream to see whether the contents match macroblock data or bit-stuffing/resync/start-code. Although you say you know it is specified, I'm not aware of any specified maximum length (other than the rather absurd limit computed from the VBV fullness and VBV buffer capacity or computed from the remaining number of macroblocks in a picture). Fixed-interval synchronization is also not specified. It is something an encoder can choose to do or not to do, as far as the video spec is concerned. What need is there to signal this to a decoder? Best Regards, Gary Sullivan +> -----Original Message----- +> From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org +> [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of +> ramakrishna_kakarala@agilent.com +> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2023 10:03 AM +> To: technotes@lists.m4if.org +> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] video packet length +> +> +> Hi, +> +> How is video packet length signalled to the +> decoder? I don't see a field for it in the +> video bitstream syntax. I know the *maximum* length +> is specified (if data partitioning is used) +> but I don't know how the actual value is +> signalled. Is it signalled in the systems +> layer? +> +> If the packet length is not signalled, +> then how does fixed interval synchronization +> work? +> +> thanks for your help +> Ram +> --------------------------------- +> Ramakrishna Kakarala +> Agilent Technologies +> 5301 Stevens Creek Blvd, MS 51L-GX +> Santa Clara, CA 95052-8059 +> ramakrishna_kakarala@agilent.com +> Tel (408) 553-2349 +> Fax (408) 553-3794> +> _______________________________________________ +> Technotes mailing list +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes +> From ramakrishna_kakarala agilent.com Wed Jun 18 14:20:26 2003 From: ramakrishna_kakarala agilent.com (ramakrishna_kakarala@agilent.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] video packet length Message-ID: <999F6F1E8EB8D311AC190090277A7726137B7586@axcs08.cos.agilent.com> Gary, The maximum video packet length is described in Table A.1 of http://www.m4if.org/resources/profiles/index.php Footnote 6 says this applies only if data_partioning is used. Appending E.1.1 of the 14496-2 standard describes fixed interval synchronization as "This method requires that VOP start codes and resynch. markers (i.e, the start of a video packet) appear only at legal fixed interval locations within the bistream....when fixed interval synch. is used the decoder is only required to search for a VOP start code at the beginning of each fixed interval." I guess my questions really are: how does the decoder know that fixed interval synch. is used and how does it know the interval? Best regards Ram --------------------------------- Ramakrishna Kakarala Agilent Technologies 5301 Stevens Creek Blvd, MS 51L-GX Santa Clara, CA 95052-8059 ramakrishna_kakarala@agilent.com Tel (408) 553-2349 Fax (408) 553-3794 > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Sullivan [mailto:garysull@windows.microsoft.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2023 11:45 AM > To: ramakrishna_kakarala@agilent.com; technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] video packet length > > > > I believe there is no signal of video packet length in an > MPEG-4 Visual > bitstream. The decoder can (and shall) determine the length by > examining the values of the bits in the stream to see whether the > contents match macroblock data or bit-stuffing/resync/start-code. > > Although you say you know it is specified, I'm not aware of any > specified maximum length (other than the rather absurd limit computed > from the VBV fullness and VBV buffer capacity or computed from the > remaining number of macroblocks in a picture). > > Fixed-interval synchronization is also not specified. It is something > an encoder can choose to do or not to do, as far as the video spec is > concerned. What need is there to signal this to a decoder? > > Best Regards, > > Gary Sullivan > > +> -----Original Message----- > +> From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > +> [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of > +> ramakrishna_kakarala@agilent.com > +> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2023 10:03 AM > +> To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > +> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] video packet length > +> > +> > +> Hi, > +> > +> How is video packet length signalled to the > +> decoder? I don't see a field for it in the > +> video bitstream syntax. I know the *maximum* length > +> is specified (if data partitioning is used) > +> but I don't know how the actual value is > +> signalled. Is it signalled in the systems > +> layer? > +> > +> If the packet length is not signalled, > +> then how does fixed interval synchronization > +> work? > +> > +> thanks for your help > +> Ram > +> --------------------------------- > +> Ramakrishna Kakarala > +> Agilent Technologies > +> 5301 Stevens Creek Blvd, MS 51L-GX > +> Santa Clara, CA 95052-8059 > +> ramakrishna_kakarala@agilent.com > +> Tel (408) 553-2349 > +> Fax (408) 553-3794> > +> _______________________________________________ > +> Technotes mailing list > +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org > +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > +> > From rob.koenen m4if.org Wed Jun 18 14:03:37 2003 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen (M4IF)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] The Fourth Workshop and Exhibtion on MPEG-4? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Gene, apologies for this late response to your very pertinent question. Current plan is for next edition of WEMP to * take place in Europe * happen early 2004 * include MPEG-4, MPEG-7 and MPEG-21 - tutorials - papers - exhibits - panels Decision for go-ahead expected at M4IF Annual Member meeting next week. Best, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Gene [mailto:gene@cs.ust.hk] > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2023 07:20 > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] The Fourth Workshop and Exhibtion on MPEG-4? > > > Dear all, > > I would like to know when will the Fourth Workshop and > Exhibition held? > Any information? > > Yours, > > Gene > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From echoy qualcomm.com Wed Jun 18 14:08:33 2003 From: echoy qualcomm.com (Eddie Choy) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] AAC: PNS scale factors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030618130138.01934788@unixmail.qualcomm.com> Dear John, I don't have an answer to your first question. But for the reference wav files, you can fetch them from: ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4@ftp.iis.fhg.de/guests/mpeg4audio/incoming/testSequences/mpeg4audio-conformance/referencesWav/ Regards, Eddie At 04:09 PM 6/18/2003 +0100, John Cox wrote: >Hi > >The standard says (ISO/IEC 14496-3:2001(E); 4.6.13.3 page 174) that the >initial scale factor for PNS values is: > >scale = 1/(size * sqrt(MEAN_NRG)); > >however the reference software from the ISO site (both refSoft & >rewrite) seems to calculate it as: > >scale = 1/sqrt(size * MEAN_NRG)); > >Which is "correct" and what have other people done? > >I've found the PNS reference streams AL18*.mp4 & AL19*.mp4 (though not >AL09,10,11) but no corresponding .wavs to check against - do they exist >anywhere? > >Many thanks > >John Cox >SJ Consulting > >_______________________________________________ >Technotes mailing list >Technotes@lists.m4if.org >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From garysull windows.microsoft.com Wed Jun 18 14:11:46 2003 From: garysull windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] transparent_mb() Message-ID: <91D7F2CEE3425A4A9D11311D09FCE24602A34677@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> A "transparent" mb is an MB outside the boundary of the established shape. There are no transparent MBs in Simple profile. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan +> -----Original Message----- +> From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org +> [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of Jim Bowen +> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2023 8:06 AM +> To: technotes@lists.m4if.org +> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] transparent_mb() +> +> +> +> Hi all, +> +> In the visual standard, what does it mean when it says a +> transparent_mb()?? +> +> Is this a macroblock with the coded block pattern for both +> luminance and +> chrominance all zeros?? or is it refering to a macroblock +> that is not part +> of a shape that cannot be seen (and then how would a simple +> profile decoder +> deal with it)?? +> +> Thanks, +> +> Jim +> +> _________________________________________________________________ +> Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* +> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail +> +> _______________________________________________ +> Technotes mailing list +> Technotes@lists.m4if.org +> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes +> From cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com Thu Jun 19 10:07:44 2003 From: cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com (cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] looking for information Message-ID: <1j969380909255.27475@mail1.hongkong.com> Dear all, I am currenly searching information about different video products. And i would like to ask is there any commercial products that make use of B frames? Please let me know if you know any of them, these information would be very useful. Thanks a lot. Regards, Clover ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ÆF®æ­·: ¾Ç­^»y¡A§K¶O¾Ç¤é»y http://www.linguaphonegroup.com/BannerTrack.asp?EMSCode=HKI03-06ETFJ-0814 From zhweizh mailst.xjtu.edu.cn Thu Jun 19 12:21:00 2003 From: zhweizh mailst.xjtu.edu.cn (zhweizh) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] why there are no P/B RC? Message-ID: <200306190324.h5J3O2X11652@lists1.magma.ca> Hi, when I am using Momusys(18VM) to encode a video, the following is my encoding parameters: encoding type: I B B P B B P B B P B B I video: coast_cif.yuv VO: 1 RC: VM5+ (Q2) farme rate: 30p/s Rate: 400,000bps But the problem is that only first P frame with MB level rate control, and all remain P and B without MB level RC. I donot know why!! I need your help, please!!! ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡zhweizh ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡zhweizh@mailst.xjtu.edu.cn ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡2003-06-19 From trevorncy yahoo.com.hk Thu Jun 19 15:00:08 2003 From: trevorncy yahoo.com.hk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Trevor=20NG?=) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] H.264 and AAC player? Message-ID: <20030619060008.70954.qmail@web20505.mail.yahoo.com> Dear experts, Is there any player or plugin that supports H.264 and AAC or AAC+ ? If yes, where can I download it? Thanks, Trevor --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com.hk address at Yahoo! Mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030619/63ae61f1/attachment.html From cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com Thu Jun 19 17:28:42 2003 From: cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com (cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Scan Mode in h.264 Message-ID: Dear all, i would like to ask is double scan no longer use in the latest H.264 draft standard, am I right? Also, I would like to ask is the draft standard finalized at this moment? My concern is on the bitstream format. Thanks a lot. regards, Clover ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ÆF®æ­·: ¾Ç­^»y¡A§K¶O¾Ç¤é»y http://www.linguaphonegroup.com/BannerTrack.asp?EMSCode=HKI03-06ETFJ-0814 From jc sj.co.uk Thu Jun 19 12:09:25 2003 From: jc sj.co.uk (John Cox) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] AAC: PNS scale factors In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030618130138.01934788@unixmail.qualcomm.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030618130138.01934788@unixmail.qualcomm.com> Message-ID: <4l23fvofs2fgmilqesqfc62enechp01p81@4ax.com> Hi Thanks for the pointer. If those reference wav files are definitive then the published standard is wrong and the reference software is right. The scale factor should read: scale = 1/sqrt(size * MEAN_NRG); Many thanks John Cox >Dear John, > >I don't have an answer to your first question. But for the reference wav >files, you can fetch them from: >ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4@ftp.iis.fhg.de/guests/mpeg4audio/incoming/testSequences/mpeg4audio-conformance/referencesWav/ > >Regards, >Eddie > >At 04:09 PM 6/18/2003 +0100, John Cox wrote: >>Hi >> >>The standard says (ISO/IEC 14496-3:2001(E); 4.6.13.3 page 174) that the >>initial scale factor for PNS values is: >> >>scale = 1/(size * sqrt(MEAN_NRG)); >> >>however the reference software from the ISO site (both refSoft & >>rewrite) seems to calculate it as: >> >>scale = 1/sqrt(size * MEAN_NRG)); >> >>Which is "correct" and what have other people done? >> >>I've found the PNS reference streams AL18*.mp4 & AL19*.mp4 (though not >>AL09,10,11) but no corresponding .wavs to check against - do they exist >>anywhere? >> >>Many thanks >> >>John Cox >>SJ Consulting From wangh china.com Thu Jun 19 23:28:26 2003 From: wangh china.com (Wang Hui) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] VM for mobile source code References: Message-ID: <005301c3366f$0c5f2e60$c8e3fea9@world> Dear all: Now I am engaged in learning the mpeg-4 encoding in wireless environment. Could someone tell me where can I find the VM in C code especially for mobile mpeg-4? and how to get it? Thank you very much best regards Wang From rob.koenen m4if.org Thu Jun 19 08:38:26 2003 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen (M4IF)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] VM for mobile source code In-Reply-To: <005301c3366f$0c5f2e60$c8e3fea9@world> Message-ID: Dear Wang, There is no special VM (Verification Model) for mobile applications. Look here: http://www.m4if.org/resources.php for how to obtain the "Reference Software" Best, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Wang Hui [mailto:wangh@china.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2023 07:28 > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] VM for mobile source code > > > Dear all: > > > Now I am engaged in learning the mpeg-4 encoding in > wireless environment. > > Could someone tell me where can I find the VM in C > code especially for mobile mpeg-4? and how to get it? > > > Thank you very much > > best regards > > Wang > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From ben interframemedia.com Thu Jun 19 16:49:43 2003 From: ben interframemedia.com (Ben Waggoner) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Looking for HE AAC test software / AAC-LC Message-ID: Folks, As part of my occasional codec shootout projects, I'm now looking at doing some tests with HE AAC encoding. Anyone have a HE AAC encoder and/or decode I could play around with. Beta, even command line, is fine with me. Also, for AAC-LC, any thoughts as to what is the best encoder to show off the technology. I've had good luck with Apple's in QuickTime 6.3 (much better than the one from 6.0), but if there are markedly better ones out there, I should try them as well. Ben Waggoner Compressed Video Consulting, Training, and Encoding My Book: Cleaner e-book: Compression Classes at Stanford June 30-July 4 and Aug 11-15 Compression Class in New York City, July 13 From hychin swallow.ee.nctu.edu.tw Fri Jun 20 17:02:37 2003 From: hychin swallow.ee.nctu.edu.tw (Allen H.Y. Chin) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:51 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Common ways to evaluate encoded video quality? Message-ID: <3EF2BF9D.4070005@swallow.ee.nctu.edu.tw> Hi, I'm wondering what are the common ways to evaluate encoded video quality? Currently I'm using PSNR to evaluate the quality. But sometimes higher PSNR does not guarantee better image quality. So, I'm looking for other metrics to have a more objective view. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance. Regards, Allen Chin From i.g.richardson rgu.ac.uk Fri Jun 20 10:04:53 2003 From: i.g.richardson rgu.ac.uk (Iain Richardson (ensigr)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] PhD position, H.264 optimization Message-ID: <9B4C0CE0F5BE4E4F83226707BFA0D1B401F7BEB4@EXVS001.rgu.ac.uk> I hope this is not too off-topic; this PhD position is directly related to MPEG-4 Part 10 (H.264) and so may be of interest to some of the subscribers to this list... I have a funded PhD position available to extend our work on MPEG-4 / H.263 computational optimization to H.264. The funding covers fees and stipend and lasts for 3 years. Please see the following page for details of the post and for the application procedure (it is post FDT7): http://www.rgu.com/research/degrees/page.cfm?pge=8541 Please contact me directly if you have any questions. Thanks Iain Richardson School of Engineering The Robert Gordon University Aberdeen, UK www.rgu.ac.uk/eng/ict/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030620/6d2bb1c0/attachment.html From Apoorva soc-soft.com Fri Jun 20 14:38:46 2003 From: Apoorva soc-soft.com (Apoorva Ankad) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) Message-ID: Dear Experts, While checking the decoder, I am getting some problem with Non Meaningful window sequence test streams. Is there any special procedure to handle the bit streams with non meaningful window sequence . Eagerly waiting for your reply's Thanking you in Advance, Apoorva M. Ankad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030620/3890c360/attachment.html From oamato wanadoo.fr Fri Jun 20 11:32:30 2003 From: oamato wanadoo.fr (Olivier Amato) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Common ways to evaluate encoded video quality? References: <3EF2BF9D.4070005@swallow.ee.nctu.edu.tw> Message-ID: <00d001c33706$802cb190$0a00000a@beck> Hi Allen, > So, I'm looking for other metrics to have a more objective view. Any > suggestions? You could maybe take a look at these links : - http://www.sarnoff.com/products_services/video_vision/jndmetrix/index.asp - http://www.genista.com/Products/VideoPQoS.htm - http://www.opticom.de/ - http://www.vqual.biz/ - http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/n3/video/vqmsoftware.htm - http://www.vqeg.org/ Regards, Olivier From trevorncy yahoo.com.hk Fri Jun 20 18:07:00 2003 From: trevorncy yahoo.com.hk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Trevor=20NG?=) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Any tool to burn MP4 CD-Rom? Message-ID: <20030620090700.78511.qmail@web20504.mail.yahoo.com> Dear experts, MPEG-4 have been growing so fast, why there is still no hardware player supporting MP4-file such like the way we play VCD and DVD. Is MP4 still not stable enough or the manufacturers are not confident enough of these standards? And how about AVC? Regards, Trevor --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com.hk address at Yahoo! Mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030620/ca1e22be/attachment.html From yrenjie sina.com Fri Jun 20 18:23:24 2003 From: yrenjie sina.com (Renjie) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] about cmp to wmv or asf Message-ID: <200306200922.h5K9MES17610@lists1.magma.ca> dear all: is there any tools to put the .cmp file into the .wmv or .asf file format? best regards¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡ From biswas tataelxsi.co.in Fri Jun 20 16:04:37 2003 From: biswas tataelxsi.co.in (Biswajit Biswas) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Testing of HDTV software decoder Message-ID: <003e01c3370f$2b8242a0$0c14010a@telxsi.com> Hi All, Can anybody suggest how to address this issue: If I develop HDTV software decoder which generates raw YUV data at rate over 93MegaBytes/sec (for size 1920x1080), how do I take this data to display in HDTV terminal for checking subjective quality. The scenario is like explained below: Source material is decoded YUV data generated by our own HDTV decoder. The processing need is as shown below: _______ ____________ _____________ | | | | | | |YUV |--->| Some | | | |4:2:0 | | |------>| SMPTE292 | |______| | Transcoder| | signal | | ?? | | or | |___________| | Y Pb Pr | | component | |____________| YUV data is in main memory of desktop PC (RAM), a transcoder (assume it is available) reads it from this memory (may be through PCI bus) and converts it into HDTV compliant signal. Can anyone suggest any such Transcoder which can solve this problem? Regards Biswajit From cychoon hotmail.com Fri Jun 20 18:52:03 2003 From: cychoon hotmail.com (Chang Yoong Choon) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Decoder Error Resilient Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030620/c6e0faf4/attachment.html From rob.koenen m4if.org Fri Jun 20 09:08:48 2003 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen (M4IF)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Common ways to evaluate encoded video quality? In-Reply-To: <00d001c33706$802cb190$0a00000a@beck> Message-ID: This questions has been asked several times before. Please see http://lists.m4if.org/pipermail/technotes/2002-August/001081.html and follow-up, and http://lists.m4if.org/pipermail/technotes/2002-November/001471.html and follow-up in addition t the links below. Nothing really beats exper viewing, even with few experts. More in general, we now have the great feature on our website that allows you to search the site, including the archives, for questions that may have been asked before! http://www.m4if.org/index_search.php Best, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Olivier Amato [mailto:oamato@wanadoo.fr] > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2023 01:33 > To: Allen H.Y. Chin; M4IF Technotes > Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Common ways to evaluate encoded > video quality? > > > Hi Allen, > > > So, I'm looking for other metrics to have a more objective > view. Any > > suggestions? > > You could maybe take a look at these links : > - > http://www.sarnoff.com/products_services/video_vision/jndmetri x/index.asp - http://www.genista.com/Products/VideoPQoS.htm - http://www.opticom.de/ - http://www.vqual.biz/ - http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/n3/video/vqmsoftware.htm - http://www.vqeg.org/ Regards, Olivier _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From singer apple.com Fri Jun 20 12:48:55 2003 From: singer apple.com (Dave Singer) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:52 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Looking for HE AAC test software / AAC-LC In-Reply-To: <8oFala4ETuB@id-50271.news.dfncis.de> References: <8oFala4ETuB@id-50271.news.dfncis.de> Message-ID: At 12:21 +0200 6/20/03, Hans-Juergen Bardenhagen wrote: >Hi Ben, > >> As part of my occasional codec shootout projects, I'm now looking >> at doing some tests with HE AAC encoding. Anyone have a HE AAC >> encoder and/or decode I could play around with. Beta, even command >> line, is fine with me. > >Yeah, me too... ;-) OK, now seriously: you can buy the first publicly >available HE-AAC codec from Nero on July 18, 2003, because Ahead >Software will release it as a part of their new Nero 6 "application >suite" then. > >http://www.nero.com/ > >> Also, for AAC-LC, any thoughts as to what is the best encoder to >> show off the technology. I've had good luck with Apple's in >> QuickTime 6.3 (much better than the one from 6.0), but if there are >> markedly better ones out there, I should try them as well. > >The Hydrogen Audio listening test at 128 kbps used CBR for all AAC >codecs in the test, so QuickTime 6.3 was benefitting from this >restriction of course (and won), but Nero AAC (the normal one without HE- >AAC) should come close and/or even be better when it's allowed to use >its VBR presets like -streaming (averaging at ~128 kbps/stereo). A close >competitor to Nero was Sorenson's Squeeze 3.5 AAC codec which is equal >to the FhG professional version that doesn't have VBR or multichannel >support, just like QuickTime. I must confess to being a little confused. We're a VBR codec naturally; but we do try to track the requested data rate fairly closely. Why that would give us an advantage, I am not sure... -- David Singer Apple Computer/QuickTime From singer apple.com Fri Jun 20 18:44:15 2003 From: singer apple.com (Dave Singer) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:53 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Looking for HE AAC test software / AAC-LC In-Reply-To: <8oFax15jTuB@id-50271.news.dfncis.de> References: <8oFax15jTuB@id-50271.news.dfncis.de> Message-ID: >By the way, is it true that the AAC codec in QuickTime 6.3 has been >updated quite a lot regarding its sound quality, Yes, our release notes at confirm an updated AAC codec. >And could you tell us which version >of the AAC codec is implemented in iTunes 4.01 and with which quality >setting compared to QuickTime 6.3? I believe that QT and iTunes use a common encoder, but I'm afraid the details of the settings that iTunes uses are unknown to me. -- David Singer Apple Computer/QuickTime From Apoorva soc-soft.com Sat Jun 21 18:51:11 2003 From: Apoorva soc-soft.com (Apoorva Ankad) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:53 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Are AL18 and AL19 equivalent to AL09 and AL10 ? which is the equivalent for AL11 ? Message-ID: Dear Experts, I am testing the AAC Decoder. According to the standard, the PNS bit streams are to be checked in a special manner. It has spectral conformance test to be done on Sequences AL09, AL10 and temporal conformance on AL11. But all these sequences are missing. But, the streams AL18 and AL19 are PNS coded. But, I am not getting to know whether AL18 and AL19 are equivalent to AL09 and AL10. If that is the case then, which is the equivalent for AL11 on which I have to perform the temporal conformance tests ? Eagerly waiting for your reply's Apoorva M. Ankad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030621/2c5a3e05/attachment.html From christopher macnytt.com Sat Jun 21 22:35:32 2003 From: christopher macnytt.com (Christopher Blomquist) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:53 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Any tool to burn MP4 CD-Rom? In-Reply-To: <20030620090700.78511.qmail@web20504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: They are coming. See: http://www.sdesigns.com/news/press_releases/030521.htm For an example. There are DVD Players on the market that support MPEG4 video streams in the old losy AVI container. /C Den 03-06-20 11.07, skrev "Trevor NG" : > Dear experts, > > MPEG-4 have been growing so fast, why there is still > no hardware player supporting MP4-file such like the way > we play VCD and DVD. Is MP4 still not stable enough or > the manufacturers are not confident enough of these > standards? And how about AVC? > > Regards, > Trevor > -- If you can?t beat them, arrange to have them beaten... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030621/39a23d36/attachment.html From Ariel.David ParthusCeva.com Mon Jun 23 12:40:10 2003 From: Ariel.David ParthusCeva.com (Ariel David) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:53 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] mp4 atom header (elemntary stream demux) Message-ID: <988BE481ACC95C429DCB909F74A3163A796551@exchange-il> Hello, I am trying to demux an mp4 file into it's seperate elementary streams. I am trying to do this in an adhoc manner for now (simply find the header of the atom and read until next atom header). I have looked over the mpeg-4 system standard and could not find a definite answer as a simple way to find an atom header. I am not familiar with the quicktime format also. Can someone tell me how to find the atom header so that I can decode the elementary stream inside. Does this have to do with the UUID that is explained or is this something else? Thanks, Ariel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030623/d06ca29b/attachment.html From dhinesh tataelxsi.co.in Mon Jun 23 15:50:41 2003 From: dhinesh tataelxsi.co.in (Dhinesh) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:53 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] B-VOPs in Simple-Scalable Profile ? Message-ID: <3EF6C668.79AEA1EB@tataelxsi.co.in> Hi, MPEG-4 Video Simple-Profile does not include B-Frame. Advanced-Simple-Profile and Core-Profile and higher profiles include B-Frame. Then shoudn't Simple-Scalable-Profile be Simple-Profile with Scalability? Why should it include B-Frame? Ref: "Table 9-1 -- Tools for Version 1 Visual Object Types" in "ISO/IEC 14496-2:2001(E)". Regards Dhinesh From sps iis.fhg.de Mon Jun 23 13:21:36 2003 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:53 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Searching for Test Streams which are PNS encoded ( AL09, AL10, AL11 ) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EF6D4B0.1040707@iis.fhg.de> Dear Apoorva, you can find all MPEG-4 Audio conformance test sequences here: ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4@ftp.iis.fhg.de/mpeg4audio-conformance Best regards, Ralph Apoorva Ankad wrote: > Dear AAC Experts, > > I am searching for some AAC test streams, which are encoded > with PNS ( AL09, AL10, AL11 ). Could any one of you kindly tell me where > I can get these ? > > > > *Apoorva M. Ankad* > > > -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From sps iis.fhg.de Mon Jun 23 13:25:34 2003 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:54 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Searching for Test Streams which are PNS encoded ( AL09, AL10, AL11 ) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030617172539.01804f10@unixmail.qualcomm.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030617172539.01804f10@unixmail.qualcomm.com> Message-ID: <3EF6D59E.9060401@iis.fhg.de> Dear Eddie, thanks for already pointing to our ftp site. With respect to the sequences names: There was just a renaming effort to avoid confusion between MPEG-2 AAC sequence numbering and MPEG-4 AAC sequence numbering (and one sequences never existed, it was specified by missunderstanding: There are three tests, but only two sequences, since two tests are performed based on the same sequence). Best regards, Ralph Eddie Choy wrote: > According to ISO/IEC 14496-4:2000/Amd.1:2001(E), it says that AL18 and > AL19 are the conformance bitstreams for PNS. They are available in: > _ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4@ftp.iis.fhg.de/guests/mpeg4audio/incoming/testSequences/mpeg4audio-conformance/compressedMp4/ > > _I am not sure what happened to AL09-AL11; they are probably obsolete. > > Regards, > Eddie > > At 04:21 PM 6/17/2003 +0530, Apoorva Ankad wrote: > >> Dear AAC Experts, >> >> I am searching for some AAC test streams, which are encoded >> with PNS ( AL09, AL10, AL11 ). Could any one of you kindly tell me >> where I can get these ? >> >> >> >> *Apoorva M. Ankad >> * >> > > -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From Christophe.Vermeulen alcatel.be Mon Jun 23 14:04:40 2003 From: Christophe.Vermeulen alcatel.be (Christophe Vermeulen) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:54 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Common ways to evaluate encoded video quality? References: Message-ID: <3EF6DEC8.114C10B7@alcatel.be> Regarding that question, and at the risk of beating a dead horse, I would dare to elaborate a bit. Sure, you are 100% right, but the fact itself that people keep asking shows there is a need for some help in this field. Maybe some specific FAQ or LFAQ (less frequently asked questions) could help. Could you all consider the following as a very humble, incomplete and maybe (hopefully partially) erroneous start, and add/complete/correct it ? - Is there an way to evaluate objectively the quality of a bitstream ? Although many algorithms exist (insert link list), and several commercial applications of these algorithms have been provided for years, no single method has ever proven better than subjective testiing from experts. - what is exactly PSNR ? PSNR is the most widely accepted objective criteria to quantify the imperfection of a coding algorithm (experts talk of HRC) by comparing the coding result with the original material. Note that this assumes that the original material is "perfect". The formula for PSNR is PSNR=10*log10(255^2/MSE) with MSE being the mean square difference of all the luminance values (is this correct? I don't know why this is a peak) One of the interests of PSNR is that it "speaks" to humans, since it gives a result in dB, like analog SNR ratios, with more being better, and an easy to understand/remember range interpretation : 10-20 is poor quality, while 30-40 is acceptable and 50-60 is already very good (for broadcast type of applications at least) The use of an inverted logarithmic scale also allows to give more invariance with respect to different sequences as compared to using MSE. (If my calculations are correct) roughly PSNR = 25,30,35,40 correspond to MSE=200, 65, 20 and 6,5 ? - What is a HRC ? A Hypothetical Reference Circuit is a reference video material that can be used to evaluate coding systems. It is the result of coding (and decoding) some source material (SRC?) For example, one can create an HRC by adding noise, coding using an algorithm (e.g. MPEG-4 ASP) and its parameters (256 kbps CBR, CIF, ...), creating bit errors, etc. - It seem that ANSI recently adopted the VQM software as the way to test objective quality. Does somebody have some experience with that ? (To be answered) - Where could I find more information ? See list below, add http://live.ece.utexas.edu/research/Quality/frqa.htm Comments/corrections welcome. I hope I did not derive too much from the reality and provide the proverbial 2 cents of contribution ... CVE. "Rob Koenen (M4IF)" wrote: > > This questions has been asked several times before. Please see > http://lists.m4if.org/pipermail/technotes/2002-August/001081.html > and follow-up, and > http://lists.m4if.org/pipermail/technotes/2002-November/001471.html > and follow-up in addition t the links below. > > Nothing really beats exper viewing, even with few experts. > > More in general, we now have the great feature on our website that > allows you to search the site, including the archives, for questions > that may have been asked before! > > http://www.m4if.org/index_search.php > > Best, > Rob > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Olivier Amato [mailto:oamato@wanadoo.fr] > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2023 01:33 > > To: Allen H.Y. Chin; M4IF Technotes > > Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Common ways to evaluate encoded > > video quality? > > > > > > Hi Allen, > > > > > So, I'm looking for other metrics to have a more objective > > view. Any > > > suggestions? > > > > You could maybe take a look at these links : > > - > > http://www.sarnoff.com/products_services/video_vision/jndmetri > x/index.asp > - http://www.genista.com/Products/VideoPQoS.htm > - http://www.opticom.de/ > - http://www.vqual.biz/ > - http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/n3/video/vqmsoftware.htm > - http://www.vqeg.org/ > > Regards, > > Olivier > From sps iis.fhg.de Mon Jun 23 16:06:05 2003 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:54 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Non meaningful Window sequence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EF6FB3D.6030900@iis.fhg.de> Dear Apoorva, there seems to be no simple way of correcting non-meaningful window sequence transitions (which might e.g. occur if cut opperations are performed on an AAC bitstream). Thus, the standard requires just to decode the frames and perform the overlap-and-add procedure as usual. That is what the reference software is intended to do and how the conformance test sequences are generated. Best regards, Ralph Apoorva Ankad wrote: > Dear Experts, > > > > When we get some non meaningful sequence in the bit stream, then are we > suppose to correct the window sequence and, then decode or we have to > decode the sequence as we obtain? > > > > *According to the standard,* > > > > The meaningful block transitions are as follows: > > > > from ONLY_LONG_SEQUENCE to { LONG_START_SEQUENCE > > > ONLY_LONG_SEQUENCE > > > > from LONG_START_SEQUENCE to { LONG_STOP_SEQUENCE > > > EIGHT_SHORT_SEQUENCE > > > > from LONG_STOP_SEQUENCE to { LONG_START_SEQUENCE > > > ONLY_LONG_SEQUENCE > > > > from EIGHT_SHORT_SEQUENCE to { LONG_STOP_SEQUENCE > > > EIGHT_SHORT_SEQUENCE > > > > In addition to the meaningful block transitions the following > transitions are possible: > > > > from ONLY_LONG_SEQUENCE to { LONG_STOP_SEQUENCE > > > EIGHT_SHORT_SEQUENCE > > > > from LONG_START_SEQUENCE to { LONG_START_SEQUENCE > > > ONLY_LONG_SEQUENCE > > > > from LONG_STOP_SEQUENCE to { LONG_STOP_SEQUENCE > > > EIGHT_SHORT_SEQUENCE > > > > from EIGHT_SHORT_SEQUENCE to { LONG_START_SEQUENCE > > > ONLY_LONG_SEQUENCE > > > > I am getting some difference with the reference PCM bit streams when I > consider streams with non meaningful window sequence (AL03). > > If the non meaningful window sequence is encountered then what is to be > done? > > > > Thanking you, > > *Apoorva M. Ankad* > > > -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From sps iis.fhg.de Mon Jun 23 16:07:02 2003 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:54 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Are AL18 and AL19 equivalent to AL09 and AL10 ? which is the equivalent for AL11 ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EF6FB76.9010708@iis.fhg.de> Dear Apoorva, the first test has to be performed on al18 (long blocks), the second and the third test has to be performed on al19 (short blocks). Make sure you have a recent version of the pns test tool available, it has been updated in October 2002. Best regards, Ralph Apoorva Ankad wrote: > Dear Experts, > > > > I am testing the AAC Decoder. According to the standard, the > PNS bit streams are to be checked in a special manner. It has spectral > conformance test to be done on Sequences AL09, AL10 and temporal > conformance on AL11. But all these sequences are missing. But, the > streams AL18 and AL19 are PNS coded. But, I am not getting to know > whether AL18 and AL19 are equivalent to AL09 and AL10. If that is the > case then, which is the equivalent for AL11 on which I have to perform > the temporal conformance tests ? > > > > Eagerly waiting for your reply’s > > > > *Apoorva M. Ankad* > > > -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From pascal.tea mediacd.fr Mon Jun 23 19:41:37 2003 From: pascal.tea mediacd.fr (Pascal TEA) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:54 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] XMT-o to XMT-A Message-ID: <01bc01c339a6$50b48cb0$0101a8c0@mediacd.fr> Hello! I am trying to create MPEG-4 scenes using the IBMtoolkit. I have some problems with the traduction of XMT-O to XMT-A. For instance, tags like or arent' taken into account. What can I do? Do you konw another XMT-O editor? Thanks for your help. Skal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030623/8bcdf2d9/attachment.html From sps iis.fhg.de Mon Jun 23 20:04:10 2003 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:54 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: AAC: PNS scale factors In-Reply-To: <4l23fvofs2fgmilqesqfc62enechp01p81@4ax.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030618130138.01934788@unixmail.qualcomm.com> <4l23fvofs2fgmilqesqfc62enechp01p81@4ax.com> Message-ID: <3EF7330A.8050000@iis.fhg.de> Dear John, the reference software comes with the following code: norm = 1.0 / sqrt( size * MEAN_NRG ); for (i=0; i with signed random values. A suitable random number generator can be realized using one multiplication/accumulation per random value." What do you think about this? Best regards, Ralph John Cox wrote: > Hi > > Thanks for the pointer. If those reference wav files are definitive > then the published standard is wrong and the reference software is > right. The scale factor should read: > > scale = 1/sqrt(size * MEAN_NRG); > > Many thanks > > John Cox > > >>Dear John, >> >>I don't have an answer to your first question. But for the reference wav >>files, you can fetch them from: >>ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4@ftp.iis.fhg.de/guests/mpeg4audio/incoming/testSequences/mpeg4audio-conformance/referencesWav/ >> >>Regards, >>Eddie >> >>At 04:09 PM 6/18/2003 +0100, John Cox wrote: >> >>>Hi >>> >>>The standard says (ISO/IEC 14496-3:2001(E); 4.6.13.3 page 174) that the >>>initial scale factor for PNS values is: >>> >>>scale = 1/(size * sqrt(MEAN_NRG)); >>> >>>however the reference software from the ISO site (both refSoft & >>>rewrite) seems to calculate it as: >>> >>>scale = 1/sqrt(size * MEAN_NRG)); >>> >>>Which is "correct" and what have other people done? >>> >>>I've found the PNS reference streams AL18*.mp4 & AL19*.mp4 (though not >>>AL09,10,11) but no corresponding .wavs to check against - do they exist >>>anywhere? >>> >>>Many thanks >>> >>>John Cox >>>SJ Consulting > > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From jc sj.co.uk Mon Jun 23 19:28:08 2003 From: jc sj.co.uk (John Cox) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:54 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: AAC: PNS scale factors In-Reply-To: <3EF7330A.8050000@iis.fhg.de> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030618130138.01934788@unixmail.qualcomm.com> <4l23fvofs2fgmilqesqfc62enechp01p81@4ax.com> <3EF7330A.8050000@iis.fhg.de> Message-ID: <64defvolce779lsk6ias1pn81hfq5qst5g@4ax.com> Dear Ralph I'm glad that you agree that the standard and reference stuff don't match at the moment. Your fix is probably optimal. However, in my case where I am implementing a fixed-point decoder, perfoming a square root on a general number is hard, whereas the individual sample scale factor can be pulled from a small lookup table (after all there are only about 32 availible values of size). I don't know how important having the correct energy in any given frame is vs. having the correct energy over time - has anyone done any tests? Ideally there would by synced 'random' number generators in the encoder and decoder so the encoder knows exactly what to expect, in which case there would be no need for the final renormalization. Many thanks John Cox SJ Consulting On Mon, 23 Jun 2023 19:04:10 +0200, you wrote: >Dear John, > >the reference software comes with the following code: > > norm = 1.0 / sqrt( size * MEAN_NRG ); > for (i=0; i spec[i] = (Float)(random2( state ) * norm); > nrg += spec[i] * spec[i]; > } > s = 1.0 / sqrt( nrg ); > for (i=0; i spec[i] *= s; > } > >Due to the second rescaling, the first scaling is obsolete. Thus, MEAN_NRG can >have any non-zero value, the output will always be the same. > >Beside this, the rescaling formula in the standard seems to be wrong, and the >formula used in the software seems to be correct. > >However, the algorithm using MEAN_NRG does not assure that the energy per band >fits the requirements, since the delivered random values (its a finite number) >might have another mean energy. Therefore, the second rescaling has been added >in the software. > >Subsequently, we tend to propose a correction of the pseudo code in the standard >as follows: > >nrg=0; >gen_rand_vector( &spec[g][b][sfb][0], size ); >for (i=0; i nrg += spec[g][b][sfb][i] * spec[g][b][sfb][i]; >} >/* avoid division by zero */ >sqrt_nrg = sqrt (nrg); >if (sqrt_nrg <= 0.0f ) { > sqrt_nrg = FLT_MIN; >} >scale = (2.0^(0.25*noise_nrg [g][sfb]))/sqrt_nrg; > >/* Scale random vector to desired target energy */ >for (i=0; i spec[g][b][sfb][i] *= scale; >} > >The subsequent text needs than to be adopted as follows: >"The function gen_rand_vector( addr, size ) generates a vector of length >with signed random values. A suitable random number generator can be realized >using one multiplication/accumulation per random value." > >What do you think about this? > >Best regards, > >Ralph > >John Cox wrote: >> Hi >> >> Thanks for the pointer. If those reference wav files are definitive >> then the published standard is wrong and the reference software is >> right. The scale factor should read: >> >> scale = 1/sqrt(size * MEAN_NRG); >> >> Many thanks >> >> John Cox >> >> >>>Dear John, >>> >>>I don't have an answer to your first question. But for the reference wav >>>files, you can fetch them from: >>>ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4@ftp.iis.fhg.de/guests/mpeg4audio/incoming/testSequences/mpeg4audio-conformance/referencesWav/ >>> >>>Regards, >>>Eddie >>> >>>At 04:09 PM 6/18/2003 +0100, John Cox wrote: >>> >>>>Hi >>>> >>>>The standard says (ISO/IEC 14496-3:2001(E); 4.6.13.3 page 174) that the >>>>initial scale factor for PNS values is: >>>> >>>>scale = 1/(size * sqrt(MEAN_NRG)); >>>> >>>>however the reference software from the ISO site (both refSoft & >>>>rewrite) seems to calculate it as: >>>> >>>>scale = 1/sqrt(size * MEAN_NRG)); >>>> >>>>Which is "correct" and what have other people done? >>>> >>>>I've found the PNS reference streams AL18*.mp4 & AL19*.mp4 (though not >>>>AL09,10,11) but no corresponding .wavs to check against - do they exist >>>>anywhere? >>>> >>>>Many thanks >>>> >>>>John Cox >>>>SJ Consulting >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Technotes mailing list >> Technotes@lists.m4if.org >> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From SassanP vbrick.com Mon Jun 23 16:26:59 2003 From: SassanP vbrick.com (Sassan Pejhan) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:54 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] B-VOPs in Simple-Scalable Profile ? Message-ID: Dhinesh, B-frames allow for temporal (as different from spatial) scalability: since B-frames are not used as reference frames, they can be dropped without impacting the decoding of other frames. Regards, Sassan > -----Original Message----- > From: Dhinesh [mailto:dhinesh@tataelxsi.co.in] > Sent: Monday, June 23, 2023 5:21 AM > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] B-VOPs in Simple-Scalable Profile ? > > > > Hi, > > MPEG-4 Video Simple-Profile does not include > B-Frame. > Advanced-Simple-Profile and Core-Profile and > higher profiles include B-Frame. > > Then shoudn't Simple-Scalable-Profile be > Simple-Profile with Scalability? > Why should it include B-Frame? > > Ref: > "Table 9-1 -- Tools for Version 1 Visual Object > Types" in > "ISO/IEC 14496-2:2001(E)". > > Regards > Dhinesh > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From t_issa hotmail.com Mon Jun 23 11:14:33 2003 From: t_issa hotmail.com (Tarek ISSA) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:54 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] help Message-ID: To whom it may concern, Good day, I'm working on the developpement on a mpeg4 application. How can i get the documentation for the mpeg-j ? Thank you for you concern. Tarek ISSA, t_issa@hotmail.com CDC tech www.cdc-technologies.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From mykim us.ibm.com Mon Jun 23 17:30:43 2003 From: mykim us.ibm.com (Michelle Y Kim) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:54 2003 Subject: *IBM Confidential: Re: [M4IF Technotes] XMT-o to XMT-A In-Reply-To: <01bc01c339a6$50b48cb0$0101a8c0@mediacd.fr> Message-ID: Skal, >I have some problems with the transduction of XMT-O to XMT-A. For instance, tags like or aren't' taken into account. The tag will be most useful if your goal is to dynamically change the MPEG-4 content while using the XMT-O as delivery format (as in SMIL). But since that was not the purpose of XMT-O, and since the IBM toolkit for MPEG-4 as released on the alphaWorks uses the XMT-O as exchangeable authoring format, not delivery format, you will not find the support for the tag in the toolkit (although it is a nice feature to have). . As for the tag, you can use the tag until there is a more general implementation of the tag available. >What can I do? You can send me a private email with a scenario of an MPEG-4 scene where you would like to use . There may be a workaround. Regards, Michelle Dr. Michelle Y. Kim, IBM T. J. Watson Research Center Manager, Composite Media Technologies Group mykim@us.ibm.com (e-mail) (914) 784-7709 (voice) (914) 784-7455 (fax) "Pascal TEA" Sent by: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org 06/23/2003 12:41 PM To: cc: Subject: [M4IF Technotes] XMT-o to XMT-A Hello! I am trying to create MPEG-4 scenes using the IBMtoolkit. I have some problems with the traduction of XMT-O to XMT-A. For instance, tags like or arent' taken into account. What can I do? Do you konw another XMT-O editor? Thanks for your help. Skal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030623/a1526da0/attachment.html From rob.koenen m4if.org Mon Jun 23 14:40:12 2003 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen (M4IF)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:55 2003 Subject: *IBM Confidential: Re: [M4IF Technotes] XMT-o to XMT-A In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks Michelle, for helping Skal. One important note: I assume that this information, in spite of the subject line, is NOT confidential. All - please do never post confidential information on M4IF's mailing lists. The lists are public and the archives are open for anyone to peruse. Kind Regards, Rob Koenen -----Original Message----- From: Michelle Y Kim [mailto:mykim@us.ibm.com] Sent: Monday, June 23, 2023 13:31 To: Pascal TEA Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org; technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org Subject: *IBM Confidential: Re: [M4IF Technotes] XMT-o to XMT-A Skal, >I have some problems with the transduction of XMT-O to XMT-A. For instance, tags like or aren't' taken into account. The tag will be most useful if your goal is to dynamically change the MPEG-4 content while using the XMT-O as delivery format (as in SMIL). But since that was not the purpose of XMT-O, and since the IBM toolkit for MPEG-4 as released on the alphaWorks uses the XMT-O as exchangeable authoring format, not delivery format, you will not find the support for the tag in the toolkit (although it is a nice feature to have). . As for the tag, you can use the tag until there is a more general implementation of the tag available. >What can I do? You can send me a private email with a scenario of an MPEG-4 scene where you would like to use . There may be a workaround. Regards, Michelle Dr. Michelle Y. Kim, IBM T. J. Watson Research Center Manager, Composite Media Technologies Group mykim@us.ibm.com (e-mail) (914) 784-7709 (voice) (914) 784-7455 (fax) "Pascal TEA" Sent by: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org 06/23/2003 12:41 PM To: cc: Subject: [M4IF Technotes] XMT-o to XMT-A Hello! I am trying to create MPEG-4 scenes using the IBMtoolkit. I have some problems with the traduction of XMT-O to XMT-A. For instance, tags like or arent' taken into account. What can I do? Do you konw another XMT-O editor? Thanks for your help. Skal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030623/f38d5686/attachment.html From mykim us.ibm.com Mon Jun 23 18:15:53 2003 From: mykim us.ibm.com (Michelle Y Kim) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:55 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] XMT-o to XMT-A In-Reply-To: Message-ID: All, My apologies! Please ignore the "Confidential" tag in the subject line of my note below. It was an accident. Regards, Michelle Dr. Michelle Y. Kim, IBM T. J. Watson Research Center Manager, Composite Media Technologies Group mykim@us.ibm.com (e-mail) (914) 784-7709 (voice) (914) 784-7455 (fax) Michelle Y Kim/Watson/IBM@IBMUS Sent by: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org 06/23/2003 04:30 PM To: "Pascal TEA" cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org, technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org Subject: *IBM Confidential: Re: [M4IF Technotes] XMT-o to XMT-A Skal, >I have some problems with the transduction of XMT-O to XMT-A. For instance, tags like or aren't' taken into account. The tag will be most useful if your goal is to dynamically change the MPEG-4 content while using the XMT-O as delivery format (as in SMIL). But since that was not the purpose of XMT-O, and since the IBM toolkit for MPEG-4 as released on the alphaWorks uses the XMT-O as exchangeable authoring format, not delivery format, you will not find the support for the tag in the toolkit (although it is a nice feature to have). . As for the tag, you can use the tag until there is a more general implementation of the tag available. >What can I do? You can send me a private email with a scenario of an MPEG-4 scene where you would like to use . There may be a workaround. Regards, Michelle Dr. Michelle Y. Kim, IBM T. J. Watson Research Center Manager, Composite Media Technologies Group mykim@us.ibm.com (e-mail) (914) 784-7709 (voice) (914) 784-7455 (fax) "Pascal TEA" Sent by: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org 06/23/2003 12:41 PM To: cc: Subject: [M4IF Technotes] XMT-o to XMT-A Hello! I am trying to create MPEG-4 scenes using the IBMtoolkit. I have some problems with the traduction of XMT-O to XMT-A. For instance, tags like or arent' taken into account. What can I do? Do you konw another XMT-O editor? Thanks for your help. Skal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030623/6e1dabdd/attachment.html From tomotohara yahoo.com Mon Jun 23 16:25:45 2003 From: tomotohara yahoo.com (Tomo) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:55 2003 Subject: *IBM Confidential: Re: [M4IF Technotes] XMT-o to XMT-A In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030623222545.15851.qmail@web10508.mail.yahoo.com> I feel very nervous to receive this kind of email indicating "confidential". If the email is really "confidential", would you please not to send it to anonymous receivers? Thank you very much --- Michelle Y Kim wrote: > Skal, > > >I have some problems with the transduction of XMT-O to XMT-A. For > instance, tags like or aren't' taken into account. > > The tag will be most useful if your goal is to dynamically > change > the MPEG-4 content while using the XMT-O as delivery format (as in > SMIL). > But since that was not the purpose of XMT-O, and since the IBM > toolkit > for MPEG-4 as released on the alphaWorks uses the XMT-O as > exchangeable > authoring format, not delivery format, you will not find the > support for > the tag in the toolkit (although it is a nice feature to > have). . > > As for the tag, you can use the tag until there is > a > more general implementation of the tag available. > > >What can I do? > You can send me a private email with a scenario of an MPEG-4 scene > where > you would like to use . There may be a workaround. > > Regards, > Michelle > > Dr. Michelle Y. Kim, IBM T. J. Watson Research Center > Manager, Composite Media Technologies Group > mykim@us.ibm.com (e-mail) > (914) 784-7709 (voice) > (914) 784-7455 (fax) > > > > > > > "Pascal TEA" > Sent by: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > 06/23/2003 12:41 PM > > To: > cc: > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] XMT-o to XMT-A > > > Hello! > > I am trying to create MPEG-4 scenes using the IBMtoolkit. > I have some problems with the traduction of XMT-O to XMT-A. > For instance, tags like or arent' taken into account. > > What can I do? > Do you konw another XMT-O editor? > > Thanks for your help. > > Skal > ===== Tomo __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From rob.koenen m4if.org Mon Jun 23 16:32:44 2003 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen (M4IF)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:55 2003 Subject: *IBM Confidential: Re: [M4IF Technotes] XMT-o to XMT-A In-Reply-To: <20030623222545.15851.qmail@web10508.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This question is good - and it was already addressed satisfactorily. Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Tomo [mailto:tomotohara@yahoo.com] > Sent: Monday, June 23, 2023 15:26 > To: Michelle Y Kim; Pascal TEA > Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org; technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > Subject: Re: *IBM Confidential: Re: [M4IF Technotes] XMT-o to XMT-A > > > I feel very nervous to receive this kind of email indicating > "confidential". If the email is really "confidential", would > you please not to send it to anonymous receivers? > > Thank you very much > > --- Michelle Y Kim wrote: > > Skal, > > > > >I have some problems with the transduction of XMT-O to XMT-A. For > > instance, tags like or aren't' taken into account. > > > > The tag will be most useful if your goal is to dynamically > > change > > the MPEG-4 content while using the XMT-O as delivery format (as in > > SMIL). > > But since that was not the purpose of XMT-O, and since the IBM > > toolkit > > for MPEG-4 as released on the alphaWorks uses the XMT-O as > > exchangeable > > authoring format, not delivery format, you will not find the > > support for > > the tag in the toolkit (although it is a nice feature to > > have). . > > > > As for the tag, you can use the tag until there is > > a > > more general implementation of the tag available. > > > > >What can I do? > > You can send me a private email with a scenario of an MPEG-4 scene > > where > > you would like to use . There may be a workaround. > > > > Regards, > > Michelle > > > > Dr. Michelle Y. Kim, IBM T. J. Watson Research Center > > Manager, Composite Media Technologies Group > > mykim@us.ibm.com (e-mail) > > (914) 784-7709 (voice) > > (914) 784-7455 (fax) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Pascal TEA" > > Sent by: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > > 06/23/2003 12:41 PM > > > > To: > > cc: > > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] XMT-o to XMT-A > > > > > > Hello! > > > > I am trying to create MPEG-4 scenes using the IBMtoolkit. > > I have some problems with the traduction of XMT-O to XMT-A. > > For instance, tags like or arent' taken into account. > > > > What can I do? > > Do you konw another XMT-O editor? > > > > Thanks for your help. > > > > Skal > > > > > ===== > Tomo > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com Tue Jun 24 15:30:28 2003 From: cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com (cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:55 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) Message-ID: Dear all, Do any one know any tool that can analyze MPEG-4 bitstream? Thanks a lot. regards, Clover ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ÆF®æ­·: ¾Ç­^»y¡A§K¶O¾Ç¤é»y http://www.hongkong.com/zh_tw/site/linguaphone/promotion.html From cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com Tue Jun 24 15:31:24 2003 From: cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com (cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:55 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Start code Message-ID: Dear all, Would any one know whether MP3 or AAC have start_code? if yes, what are the start code? Thanks a lot. regards, clover ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ÆF®æ­·: ¾Ç­^»y¡A§K¶O¾Ç¤é»y http://www.hongkong.com/zh_tw/site/linguaphone/promotion.html From ramki emuzed.com Tue Jun 24 13:20:43 2003 From: ramki emuzed.com (Ramkishor Korada) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:55 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) References: Message-ID: <047701c33a1c$f7dfcb00$1b0aa8c0@blr.emuzed.com> Hi, Check www.vqual.biz regards, ramkishor ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2023 12:00 PM Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) > Dear all, > > Do any one know any tool that can analyze MPEG-4 bitstream? > Thanks a lot. > > regards, > Clover > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- > ?F????: ???^?y?A?K?O?????y > http://www.hongkong.com/zh_tw/site/linguaphone/promotion.html > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From oamato wanadoo.fr Tue Jun 24 10:23:29 2003 From: oamato wanadoo.fr (Olivier Amato) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:55 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] (no subject) References: Message-ID: <000e01c33a21$94bb71f0$0a00000a@beck> > Do any one know any tool that can analyze MPEG-4 bitstream? You can take a look at : - mp4UI for track properties : http://www.mediacruiser.de/mp4UI/ - Vqual's Vprove for MPEG-4 video track analysis : http://www.vqual.biz/Vprove.html - Apple's Dumpster to view and edit 'moov' resources ( more QT file format oriented ) : ftp://ftp.apple.com/developer/Quicktime/Windows_Tools/Programmers_Tools/Dumpster/Dumpster.zip Olivier From t_issa hotmail.com Tue Jun 24 12:05:54 2003 From: t_issa hotmail.com (Tarek ISSA) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:55 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] mpeg-j api request Message-ID: To whom it may concern, Good Day, I'm interested in develloping mpeg4's applications . So , please, i would like to know where i can find the APIs that i can use to develop an mpeg4 application ( jar file of MPEG-J APIs) and its documentation . Thank you for your concern. Tarek ISSA, t_issa@hotmail.com cdc tech www.cdc-technologies.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From Vinay soc-soft.com Tue Jun 24 18:02:16 2003 From: Vinay soc-soft.com (Vinay K) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:56 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] switching mechanism. Message-ID: Dear MPEG experts, I have a question on the switching mechanism The decision to switch from long blocks to short blocks is taken in the psychoacoustic model. This decision is based on the "perceptual entropy" calculated. The reference ISO code and the FAAC encoder has hardcoded that value to -3000. Is there any algorithm which decides this switching at run time? When this value of "Perceptual Entropy" is reduced to a small value, then switching to short blocks happens very frequently and the quality increases, but at the same time the complexity of the encoder increases. Is there any standard value of pe which needs to be hardcoded to switch to short blocks or should it be computed at run time? Awaiting for your answers, Vinay K. _____ Upgrade Your Email - Click here! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030624/80deaf88/attachment.html From statemanh itd.sel.sony.com Tue Jun 24 10:41:39 2003 From: statemanh itd.sel.sony.com (Howard Stateman) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:56 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Common ways to evaluate encoded video quality? In-Reply-To: <3EF6DEC8.114C10B7@alcatel.be> Message-ID: <001a01c33a6f$7cde2520$5e81862b@SJ0050DA17D993> To expand a little on Christophe's fine FAQ, and to help address the original question, I'd like to share an anecdote. A few years ago I was the competitive analysis engineer for a major player in streaming media, tasked with analyzing audio/video streams from the major players, with the goal of making useful suggestions to our codec team for improving our product relative to the competition's. After making my own analysis, and having several "golden ear" and "golden eye" experts add their input, I brought in about a dozen non-experts - admin assistants, marketing folks, non-media progammers, etc. to tell us what they thought of the streams. Even though it was clear to the experts that my company's video was sharper, more color-accurate and had fewer artifacts in high-motion frames, the non-experts (a.k.a. potential customers) liked the competion's video better. We discovered the huge role which psychology has to play in percieved quality of streaming media. --------------- The contents of this message contain the personal opinions of the author, and do not reflect the policies or position of Sony Corporation, its employees or subsidiaries. > -----Original Message----- > From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of > Christophe Vermeulen > Sent: Monday, June 23, 2023 4:05 AM > > - Is there an way to evaluate objectively the quality of a bitstream ? > > Although many algorithms exist (insert link list), and > several commercial > applications of these algorithms have been provided for > years, no single > method has ever proven better than subjective testing from experts. > > From rbleidt hdtv.com Tue Jun 24 12:34:51 2003 From: rbleidt hdtv.com (Robert Bleidt) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:56 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Common ways to evaluate encoded video quality? In-Reply-To: <001a01c33a6f$7cde2520$5e81862b@SJ0050DA17D993> References: <3EF6DEC8.114C10B7@alcatel.be> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20030624111858.03330b88@localhost> Are you saying they were influenced by parameters of the video that your panel didn't weight as highly, or was it not a double-blind test - they were influenced by brand equity, control interface, etc. One problem I have had in the past is that it is difficult to conduct a double-blind test with any of the proprietary formats as displayed on a PC, as there is no easy way to "record" their reconstructed output. Some PC video cards do have a down-converted video output that can feed a VCR, but usually these outputs add artifacts of their own. We need something like www.totalrecorder.com for true motion video. I have ended up sometimes putting a cardboard mask over the screen to reveal just the video window. Has anyone solved this problem? At 09:41 AM 6/24/2003 -0700, Howard Stateman wrote: >Even though it was clear to the experts that my company's video was sharper, >more color-accurate and had fewer artifacts in high-motion frames, the >non-experts (a.k.a. potential customers) liked the competion's video better. >We discovered the huge role which psychology has to play in percieved >quality of streaming media. Robert Bleidt - rbleidt@hdtv.com From rbleidt hdtv.com Tue Jun 24 12:52:42 2003 From: rbleidt hdtv.com (Robert Bleidt) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:56 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Testing of HDTV software decoder In-Reply-To: <003e01c3370f$2b8242a0$0c14010a@telxsi.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20030624113704.033ad0d8@localhost> About ten years ago, I was involved with a product that did exactly what you ask. It took five 9U slots in a large Sun workstation to store a few seconds of an HD sequence in DRAM - most of the labs working on HDTV research had one. But with the passage of time, I am not sure what people use now beside just a PC video card. Miranda and AJA Video have manufactured transcoders and sync converters to go from VGA outputs to tri-level sync RGB, as I recall. So if a video card has enough quality and memory bandwidth for you, one of these transcoders will solve the problem for a few hundred dollars. (Another side note: also ten years ago, I built a converter product to go the other way - from a serial HD signal to a VGA monitor. If you didn't mind the letterboxing, a $700 PC monitor of that era didn't look bad next to a $50K Sony HD video monitor. This was disconcerting to people who said display technology was a reason HDTV development was slowed...) At 03:04 PM 6/20/2003 +0530, Biswajit Biswas wrote: >Hi All, > >Can anybody suggest how to address this issue: > >If I develop HDTV software decoder which generates raw YUV data at rate >over 93MegaBytes/sec (for size 1920x1080), how do I take this data to >display in HDTV terminal for checking subjective quality. > >The scenario is like explained below: > >Source material is decoded YUV data generated by our own HDTV decoder. The >processing need is as shown below: >_______ ____________ _____________ >| | | | | | >|YUV |--->| Some | | | >|4:2:0 | | |------>| SMPTE292 | >|______| | Transcoder| | signal | > | ?? | | or | > |___________| | Y Pb Pr | > | component | > |____________| > >YUV data is in main memory of desktop PC (RAM), a transcoder (assume it is >available) reads it from this memory (may be through PCI bus) and converts >it into HDTV compliant signal. > >Can anyone suggest any such Transcoder which can solve this problem? > >Regards >Biswajit > > > >_______________________________________________ >Technotes mailing list >Technotes@lists.m4if.org >http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes Robert Bleidt - rbleidt@hdtv.com From miroslav.dokic cirrus.com Tue Jun 24 18:32:34 2003 From: miroslav.dokic cirrus.com (Dokic, Miroslav) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:56 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Start code Message-ID: <973C11FE0E3ED41183B200508BC7774C0E3BF919@csexchange.crystal.cirrus.com> Clover, MP3 and AAC do not have the start_codes in the form of 0x000001, rather the audio frame starts with 12 bit field 0xfff. This is true for both MP3 and AAC. More bits after 0xfff are needed to figure out is it MP3 or AAC (or MPEG-1/2 Layer I or II for that matter) Best regards, Miroslav -----Original Message----- From: cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com [mailto:cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2023 1:31 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Start code Dear all, Would any one know whether MP3 or AAC have start_code? if yes, what are the start code? Thanks a lot. regards, clover ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ AEF(r)ae-*: 3/4C-^>y!A?K?O3/4C$e>y http://www.hongkong.com/zh_tw/site/linguaphone/promotion.html _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From heeyeoly CS.UCLA.EDU Tue Jun 24 18:44:13 2003 From: heeyeoly CS.UCLA.EDU (Yu, Heeyeol) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:56 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Start code In-Reply-To: <973C11FE0E3ED41183B200508BC7774C0E3BF919@csexchange.crystal.cirrus.com> Message-ID: <001601c33aa2$25a3a360$3e88b383@yuatxp> Dear Dokic Could you tell the standard mentioning the start code of I/P/B frame of MPEG4? Actually I don't know the helpful document and where I can get that. Best regards ====================================== John Heeyeol Yu Computer Science Department H: 310-838-2396 O: 310-206-8589 http://www.cs.ucla.edu/~heeyeoly ====================================== -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of Dokic, Miroslav Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2023 5:33 PM To: 'cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com'; technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Start code Clover, MP3 and AAC do not have the start_codes in the form of 0x000001, rather the audio frame starts with 12 bit field 0xfff. This is true for both MP3 and AAC. More bits after 0xfff are needed to figure out is it MP3 or AAC (or MPEG-1/2 Layer I or II for that matter) Best regards, Miroslav -----Original Message----- From: cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com [mailto:cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2023 1:31 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Start code Dear all, Would any one know whether MP3 or AAC have start_code? if yes, what are the start code? Thanks a lot. regards, clover ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ AEF(r)ae-*: 3/4C-^>y!A?K?O3/4C$e>y http://www.hongkong.com/zh_tw/site/linguaphone/promotion.html _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From idimkovic nero.com Wed Jun 25 01:44:41 2003 From: idimkovic nero.com (Ivan Dimkovic) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:56 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Start code References: <973C11FE0E3ED41183B200508BC7774C0E3BF919@csexchange.crystal.cirrus.com> Message-ID: <013001c33aa2$34b843b0$fe78a8c0@diamorphine> Dear All, This frame start code applies only if ADTS syncwords are used in the AAC bitstream - some AAC decoders also accept streams without the ADTS headers (sequences with ADIF header, or even headerless sequences) In case of MP4 file format, also no ADTS syncwords are used. Best Regards, -- Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dokic, Miroslav" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2023 12:32 AM Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Start code > Clover, > > MP3 and AAC do not have the start_codes in the form of 0x000001, > rather the audio frame starts with 12 bit field 0xfff. > This is true for both MP3 and AAC. More bits after 0xfff are > needed > to figure out is it MP3 or AAC (or MPEG-1/2 Layer I or II for > that matter) > > Best regards, > > Miroslav > > -----Original Message----- > From: cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com > [mailto:cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2023 1:31 AM > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Start code > > > Dear all, > > Would any one know whether MP3 or AAC have start_code? if yes, > what are the start code? Thanks a lot. > > regards, > clover > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------ > AEF(r)ae-*: 3/4C-^>y!A?K?O3/4C$e>y > http://www.hongkong.com/zh_tw/site/linguaphone/promotion.html > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From miroslav.dokic cirrus.com Tue Jun 24 18:58:24 2003 From: miroslav.dokic cirrus.com (Dokic, Miroslav) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:56 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Start code Message-ID: <973C11FE0E3ED41183B200508BC7774C0E3BF91A@csexchange.crystal.cirrus.com> Dear Yu, You need to get the ISO/IEC spec 14496-2 and check the section 6.3.5. where vop_coding_type is specified, as a 2 bit field: 00 --- I coded vop 01 --- P coded vop 10 --- B coded vop 11 --- S (sprite) This 2 bit field arrives after 32 bit vop_start_code of 0x000001B6. Regards, Miroslav -----Original Message----- From: Yu, Heeyeol [mailto:heeyeoly@CS.UCLA.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2023 5:44 PM To: 'Dokic, Miroslav'; technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Start code Dear Dokic Could you tell the standard mentioning the start code of I/P/B frame of MPEG4? Actually I don't know the helpful document and where I can get that. Best regards ====================================== John Heeyeol Yu Computer Science Department H: 310-838-2396 O: 310-206-8589 http://www.cs.ucla.edu/~heeyeoly ====================================== -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of Dokic, Miroslav Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2023 5:33 PM To: 'cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com'; technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Start code Clover, MP3 and AAC do not have the start_codes in the form of 0x000001, rather the audio frame starts with 12 bit field 0xfff. This is true for both MP3 and AAC. More bits after 0xfff are needed to figure out is it MP3 or AAC (or MPEG-1/2 Layer I or II for that matter) Best regards, Miroslav -----Original Message----- From: cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com [mailto:cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2023 1:31 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Start code Dear all, Would any one know whether MP3 or AAC have start_code? if yes, what are the start code? Thanks a lot. regards, clover ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ AEF(r)ae-*: 3/4C-^>y!A?K?O3/4C$e>y http://www.hongkong.com/zh_tw/site/linguaphone/promotion.html _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From statemanh itd.sel.sony.com Tue Jun 24 17:06:06 2003 From: statemanh itd.sel.sony.com (Howard Stateman) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:56 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Common ways to evaluate encoded video quality? Message-ID: <002401c33aa5$31eb1290$5e81862b@SJ0050DA17D993> What we saw was the average person preferred smooth, slightly blurred moving images to sharp, slightly jerky video. When we asked about this, our subjects said they liked the "movie" feel as opposed to a "videotape" feel. We also saw that when the audio was clearer and richer, they rated the video as being better as well, even though we had simply patched better audio onto the same video stream. As for the controls, we embedded the players in a web page with no controls, so the non-experts were unable to tell which company's product they were viewing. Mind you, we did not do a scientific study, so your mileage may vary. --------------- The contents of this message contain the personal opinions of the author, and do not reflect the policies or position of Sony Corporation, its employees or subsidiaries. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org > > [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Robert Bleidt > > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2023 11:35 AM > > To: 'M4IF Technotes' > > Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Common ways to evaluate encoded video > > quality? > > > > > > Are you saying they were influenced by parameters of the > > video that your > > panel didn't weight as highly, or was it not a double-blind > > test - they > > were influenced by brand equity, control interface, etc. > > > > One problem I have had in the past is that it is difficult to > > conduct a > > double-blind test with any of the proprietary formats as > > displayed on a PC, > > as there is no easy way to "record" their reconstructed > > output. Some PC > > video cards do have a down-converted video output that can > > feed a VCR, but > > usually these outputs add artifacts of their own. We need > > something like > > www.totalrecorder.com for true motion video. I have ended up > > sometimes > > putting a cardboard mask over the screen to reveal just the > > video window. > > > > Has anyone solved this problem? > > > > At 09:41 AM 6/24/2003 -0700, Howard Stateman wrote: > > > > >Even though it was clear to the experts that my company's > > video was sharper, > > >more color-accurate and had fewer artifacts in high-motion > > frames, the > > >non-experts (a.k.a. potential customers) liked the > > competion's video better. > > >We discovered the huge role which psychology has to play > in percieved > > >quality of streaming media. > > > > Robert Bleidt - rbleidt@hdtv.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Technotes mailing list > > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > From heeyeoly CS.UCLA.EDU Tue Jun 24 19:14:47 2003 From: heeyeoly CS.UCLA.EDU (Yu, Heeyeol) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:56 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Start code In-Reply-To: <973C11FE0E3ED41183B200508BC7774C0E3BF91A@csexchange.crystal.cirrus.com> Message-ID: <001e01c33aa6$6add3550$3e88b383@yuatxp> Dear Dokic I am not good at MPEG4, but just start to study. Could you tell me where I can get that standard, ISO/IEC spec 14496-2? BTW, what is S frame? Is made frequent? What I considered for rating frame are I/P/B frames only because most of papers mentioned them only. But sometimes I got frame saying 0x000001B650 which means S frame. I got this frame using MPEG4IP tools which used ISO MPEG4 coding scheme. BTW I got frame saying 0x3e06540c. What is this one of I/P/B/S frame splitted? As I know RFC strongly recommends to use that in one RTP. Could you tell me the packet format of MPEG4 in RTP? Which RFC? Best regards ====================================== John Heeyeol Yu Computer Science Department H: 310-838-2396 O: 310-206-8589 http://www.cs.ucla.edu/~heeyeoly ====================================== -----Original Message----- From: Dokic, Miroslav [mailto:miroslav.dokic@cirrus.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2023 5:58 PM To: 'Yu, Heeyeol'; Dokic, Miroslav; technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Start code Dear Yu, You need to get the ISO/IEC spec 14496-2 and check the section 6.3.5. where vop_coding_type is specified, as a 2 bit field: 00 --- I coded vop 01 --- P coded vop 10 --- B coded vop 11 --- S (sprite) This 2 bit field arrives after 32 bit vop_start_code of 0x000001B6. Regards, Miroslav -----Original Message----- From: Yu, Heeyeol [mailto:heeyeoly@CS.UCLA.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2023 5:44 PM To: 'Dokic, Miroslav'; technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Start code Dear Dokic Could you tell the standard mentioning the start code of I/P/B frame of MPEG4? Actually I don't know the helpful document and where I can get that. Best regards ====================================== John Heeyeol Yu Computer Science Department H: 310-838-2396 O: 310-206-8589 http://www.cs.ucla.edu/~heeyeoly ====================================== -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of Dokic, Miroslav Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2023 5:33 PM To: 'cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com'; technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Start code Clover, MP3 and AAC do not have the start_codes in the form of 0x000001, rather the audio frame starts with 12 bit field 0xfff. This is true for both MP3 and AAC. More bits after 0xfff are needed to figure out is it MP3 or AAC (or MPEG-1/2 Layer I or II for that matter) Best regards, Miroslav -----Original Message----- From: cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com [mailto:cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2023 1:31 AM To: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Start code Dear all, Would any one know whether MP3 or AAC have start_code? if yes, what are the start code? Thanks a lot. regards, clover ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ AEF(r)ae-*: 3/4C-^>y!A?K?O3/4C$e>y http://www.hongkong.com/zh_tw/site/linguaphone/promotion.html _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From miroslav.dokic cirrus.com Tue Jun 24 19:39:19 2003 From: miroslav.dokic cirrus.com (Dokic, Miroslav) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:56 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Start code Message-ID: <973C11FE0E3ED41183B200508BC7774C0E3BF91B@csexchange.crystal.cirrus.com> Dear Clover and all, MPEG-1 Layers I,II and III --- ISO/IEC 11172-3 MPEG-2 Layers I,II and III --- ISO/IEC 13818-3 MPEG-2 AAC --- ISO/IEC 13818-7 MPEG-4 AAC --- ISO/IEC 14496-3 Best regards, Miroslav -----Original Message----- From: cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com [mailto:cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2023 6:32 PM To: Dokic, Miroslav; technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: Re: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Start code Dear Miroslav and all, Thanks for your reply. Would you direct me which document I should refer to in order to further distinguish between AAC(MPEG-2/4) and MP3? Thanks a lot. Regards, Clover > Clover, > > MP3 and AAC do not have the start_codes in the form of 0x000001, > rather the audio frame starts with 12 bit field 0xfff. > This is true for both MP3 and AAC. More bits after 0xfff are > needed > to figure out is it MP3 or AAC (or MPEG-1/2 Layer I or II for > that matter) > > Best regards, > > Miroslav > > -----Original Message----- > From: cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com > [mailto:cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2023 1:31 AM > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Start code > > > Dear all, > > Would any one know whether MP3 or AAC have start_code? if yes, > what are the start code? Thanks a lot. > > regards, > clover > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------ > AEF(r)ae-*: 3/4C-^>y!A?K?O3/4C$e>y > http://www.hongkong.com/zh_tw/site/linguaphone/promotion.html > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ AEF(r)ae-*: 3/4C-^>y!A?K?O3/4C$e>y http://www.hongkong.com/zh_tw/site/linguaphone/promotion.html From cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com Wed Jun 25 08:32:28 2003 From: cloverleafland mail.hongkong.com (cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:57 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Start code Message-ID: Dear Miroslav and all, Thanks for your reply. Would you direct me which document I should refer to in order to further distinguish between AAC(MPEG-2/4) and MP3? Thanks a lot. Regards, Clover > Clover, > > MP3 and AAC do not have the start_codes in the form of 0x000001, > rather the audio frame starts with 12 bit field 0xfff. > This is true for both MP3 and AAC. More bits after 0xfff are > needed > to figure out is it MP3 or AAC (or MPEG-1/2 Layer I or II for > that matter) > > Best regards, > > Miroslav > > -----Original Message----- > From: cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com > [mailto:cloverleafland@mail.hongkong.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2023 1:31 AM > To: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Start code > > > Dear all, > > Would any one know whether MP3 or AAC have start_code? if yes, > what are the start code? Thanks a lot. > > regards, > clover > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------ > AEF(r)ae-*: 3/4C-^>y!A?K?O3/4C$e>y > http://www.hongkong.com/zh_tw/site/linguaphone/promotion.html > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ÆF®æ­·: ¾Ç­^»y¡A§K¶O¾Ç¤é»y http://www.hongkong.com/zh_tw/site/linguaphone/promotion.html From trevor astri.org Wed Jun 25 10:13:51 2003 From: trevor astri.org (Trevor NG) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:57 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Identification of MPEG4 video stream? Message-ID: <001001c33ab7$09da8d50$4804050a@TrevorNg> Dear experts, How can I identify a video stream as mp4 video? Is it strong enough to say a stream is not mp4 video if it doesn't contain start codes like 0x000001B6 (VOP)? If the stream uses short header, is VOP start code still necessary to be present? Thanks in advance, Trevor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030625/050fbbc3/attachment.html From rob.koenen m4if.org Tue Jun 24 22:17:43 2003 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen (M4IF)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:57 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Common ways to evaluate encoded video quality? In-Reply-To: <3EF6DEC8.114C10B7@alcatel.be> Message-ID: <000001c33ad0$bb81a430$b50a010a@corp.intertrust.com> Thanks Cristophe. Good suggestion. We'll make a FAQ entry long those lines. Best, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Christophe Vermeulen [mailto:Christophe.Vermeulen@alcatel.be] > Sent: Monday, June 23, 2023 04:05 > To: rob.koenen@m4if.org > Cc: 'Olivier Amato'; Allen H.Y. Chin; M4IF Technotes > Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Common ways to evaluate encoded > video quality? > > > Regarding that question, and at the risk of beating a dead horse, > I would dare to elaborate a bit. > > Sure, you are 100% right, but the fact itself that people keep asking > shows there is a need for some help in this field. Maybe some specific > FAQ or LFAQ (less frequently asked questions) could help. > > Could you all consider the following as a very humble, incomplete and > maybe (hopefully partially) erroneous start, and > add/complete/correct it ? > > - Is there an way to evaluate objectively the quality of a bitstream ? > > Although many algorithms exist (insert link list), and > several commercial > applications of these algorithms have been provided for > years, no single > method has ever proven better than subjective testiing from experts. > > - what is exactly PSNR ? > > PSNR is the most widely accepted objective criteria to quantify the > imperfection of a coding algorithm (experts talk of HRC) by > comparing > the coding result with the original material. Note that > this assumes > that the original material is "perfect". > > The formula for PSNR is PSNR=10*log10(255^2/MSE) with MSE being the > mean square difference of all the luminance values (is this correct? > I don't know why this is a peak) > > One of the interests of PSNR is that it "speaks" to humans, since > it gives a result in dB, like analog SNR ratios, with more being > better, and an easy to understand/remember range interpretation : > 10-20 is poor quality, while 30-40 is acceptable and 50-60 is > already very good (for broadcast type of applications at least) > > The use of an inverted logarithmic scale also allows to give > more invariance with respect to different sequences as compared > to using MSE. (If my calculations are correct) > roughly PSNR = 25,30,35,40 correspond to MSE=200, 65, 20 and 6,5 ? > > - What is a HRC ? A Hypothetical Reference Circuit is a reference > video material that can be used to evaluate coding systems. It is > the result of coding (and decoding) some source material (SRC?) > For example, one can create an HRC by adding noise, coding using > an algorithm (e.g. MPEG-4 ASP) and its parameters (256 kbps CBR, > CIF, ...), creating bit errors, etc. > > - It seem that ANSI recently adopted the VQM software as the way to > test objective quality. Does somebody have some experience > with that ? > (To be answered) > > - Where could I find more information ? See list below, add > http://live.ece.utexas.edu/research/Quality/frqa.htm > > Comments/corrections welcome. I hope I did not derive too > much from the reality > and provide the proverbial 2 cents of contribution ... > > CVE. > > "Rob Koenen (M4IF)" wrote: > > > > This questions has been asked several times before. Please see > > http://lists.m4if.org/pipermail/technotes/2002-August/001081.html > > and follow-up, and > > http://lists.m4if.org/pipermail/technotes/2002-November/001471.html > > and follow-up in addition t the links below. > > > > Nothing really beats exper viewing, even with few experts. > > > > More in general, we now have the great feature on our website that > > allows you to search the site, including the archives, for questions > > that may have been asked before! > > > > http://www.m4if.org/index_search.php > > > > Best, > > Rob > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Olivier Amato [mailto:oamato@wanadoo.fr] > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2023 01:33 > > > To: Allen H.Y. Chin; M4IF Technotes > > > Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Common ways to evaluate encoded > > > video quality? > > > > > > > > > Hi Allen, > > > > > > > So, I'm looking for other metrics to have a more objective > > > view. Any > > > > suggestions? > > > > > > You could maybe take a look at these links : > > > - > > > http://www.sarnoff.com/products_services/video_vision/jndmetri > > x/index.asp > > - http://www.genista.com/Products/VideoPQoS.htm > > - http://www.opticom.de/ > > - http://www.vqual.biz/ > > - http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/n3/video/vqmsoftware.htm > > - http://www.vqeg.org/ > > > > Regards, > > > > Olivier > > > From anil.kumar ittiam.com Wed Jun 25 12:26:54 2003 From: anil.kumar ittiam.com (Anil Kumar) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:57 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Question on AAC object type Message-ID: <45A1F95BB9D7D84FAB0A1EB4D67EEF960175B4@is01ex01.ittiam.com> Hi all, I had a couple of questions on the AAC LC object type in a bitstream. 1. Can I get an ADTS or ADIF as the transport layer for an MPEG-4 stream?? (i guess it is yes, but just to confirm). 2. What is the object type index for AAC LC in case of MPEG-2 and MPEG-4. Does this change depending on the transport layer(ADTS or ADIF or GA). 3. How do I distinguish b/w MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 in case of ADIF/ADTS (Is it the bitstream_type and adts_id) 4. Where can I get a complete documentation of all these things?? Thanks in advance, Anil From lcheng62 yahoo.com Wed Jun 25 11:59:31 2003 From: lcheng62 yahoo.com (Liang Cheng) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:57 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Common ways to evaluate encoded video quality? In-Reply-To: <000001c33ad0$bb81a430$b50a010a@corp.intertrust.com> Message-ID: <20030625175931.21920.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Can anybody give me a hint about the correlation between the PSNR and subjective quality measurement? I suppose some lab might have made this kind of tests. Thank you, Liang --- "Rob Koenen (M4IF)" wrote: > Thanks Cristophe. > > Good suggestion. > We'll make a FAQ entry long those lines. > > Best, > Rob > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Christophe Vermeulen > [mailto:Christophe.Vermeulen@alcatel.be] > > Sent: Monday, June 23, 2023 04:05 > > To: rob.koenen@m4if.org > > Cc: 'Olivier Amato'; Allen H.Y. Chin; M4IF > Technotes > > Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Common ways to > evaluate encoded > > video quality? > > > > > > Regarding that question, and at the risk of > beating a dead horse, > > I would dare to elaborate a bit. > > > > Sure, you are 100% right, but the fact itself that > people keep asking > > shows there is a need for some help in this field. > Maybe some specific > > FAQ or LFAQ (less frequently asked questions) > could help. > > > > Could you all consider the following as a very > humble, incomplete and > > maybe (hopefully partially) erroneous start, and > > add/complete/correct it ? > > > > - Is there an way to evaluate objectively the > quality of a bitstream ? > > > > Although many algorithms exist (insert link > list), and > > several commercial > > applications of these algorithms have been > provided for > > years, no single > > method has ever proven better than subjective > testiing from experts. > > > > - what is exactly PSNR ? > > > > PSNR is the most widely accepted objective > criteria to quantify the > > imperfection of a coding algorithm (experts talk > of HRC) by > > comparing > > the coding result with the original material. > Note that > > this assumes > > that the original material is "perfect". > > > > The formula for PSNR is PSNR=10*log10(255^2/MSE) > with MSE being the > > mean square difference of all the luminance > values (is this correct? > > I don't know why this is a peak) > > > > One of the interests of PSNR is that it "speaks" > to humans, since > > it gives a result in dB, like analog SNR ratios, > with more being > > better, and an easy to understand/remember range > interpretation : > > 10-20 is poor quality, while 30-40 is acceptable > and 50-60 is > > already very good (for broadcast type of > applications at least) > > > > The use of an inverted logarithmic scale also > allows to give > > more invariance with respect to different > sequences as compared > > to using MSE. (If my calculations are correct) > > roughly PSNR = 25,30,35,40 correspond to > MSE=200, 65, 20 and 6,5 ? > > > > - What is a HRC ? A Hypothetical Reference Circuit > is a reference > > video material that can be used to evaluate > coding systems. It is > > the result of coding (and decoding) some source > material (SRC?) > > For example, one can create an HRC by adding > noise, coding using > > an algorithm (e.g. MPEG-4 ASP) and its > parameters (256 kbps CBR, > > CIF, ...), creating bit errors, etc. > > > > - It seem that ANSI recently adopted the VQM > software as the way to > > test objective quality. Does somebody have some > experience > > with that ? > > (To be answered) > > > > - Where could I find more information ? See list > below, add > > > http://live.ece.utexas.edu/research/Quality/frqa.htm > > > > Comments/corrections welcome. I hope I did not > derive too > > much from the reality > > and provide the proverbial 2 cents of contribution > ... > > > > CVE. > > > > "Rob Koenen (M4IF)" wrote: > > > > > > This questions has been asked several times > before. Please see > > > > http://lists.m4if.org/pipermail/technotes/2002-August/001081.html > > > and follow-up, and > > > > http://lists.m4if.org/pipermail/technotes/2002-November/001471.html > > > and follow-up in addition t the links below. > > > > > > Nothing really beats exper viewing, even with > few experts. > > > > > > More in general, we now have the great feature > on our website that > > > allows you to search the site, including the > archives, for questions > > > that may have been asked before! > > > > > > http://www.m4if.org/index_search.php > > > > > > Best, > > > Rob > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Olivier Amato [mailto:oamato@wanadoo.fr] > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2023 01:33 > > > > To: Allen H.Y. Chin; M4IF Technotes > > > > Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Common ways to > evaluate encoded > > > > video quality? > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Allen, > > > > > > > > > So, I'm looking for other metrics to have a > more objective > > > > view. Any > > > > > suggestions? > > > > > > > > You could maybe take a look at these links : > > > > - > > > > > http://www.sarnoff.com/products_services/video_vision/jndmetri > > > x/index.asp > > > - http://www.genista.com/Products/VideoPQoS.htm > > > - http://www.opticom.de/ > > > - http://www.vqual.biz/ > > > - > http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/n3/video/vqmsoftware.htm > > > - http://www.vqeg.org/ > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Olivier > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From trevor astri.org Thu Jun 26 10:04:52 2003 From: trevor astri.org (Trevor NG) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:57 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] mp4 file format Message-ID: <000e01c33b7e$f3588a50$4804050a@TrevorNg> Hi experts, Could anyone here tell me which standards should I refer to in order to create an mp4 file playable back by QuickTime6.3, envivio plugin or MPEG-4 compatible DVD player? Your answer will help me very much. Thanks, Trevor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030626/f50cbbb2/attachment.html From rob.koenen m4if.org Wed Jun 25 22:34:12 2003 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen (M4IF)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:57 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] mp4 file format In-Reply-To: <000e01c33b7e$f3588a50$4804050a@TrevorNg> Message-ID: <003001c33b9c$342e4390$4345fea9@corp.intertrust.com> Trevor, QuickTime 6.3:use MPEG-4 Simple Visual Profile (in ISO/IEC 14496-2), AAC Low Complexity Advanced Audio Coding (in ISO/IEC 14496-3), and mp4 file format spec (in ISO/IEC 14496-1 for the moment, will get its own part soon) Envivio Plug-in: you can also use, in addition to the above, Advanced Simple Visual Profile and the interactive features and Advanced 2D Scene Graph and Advanced 2D Graphics Profiles, and MPEG-J (those features are all in ISO/IEC 14496-1). MPEG-4 compatible DVD players: that depends which player. DivX is what is implemented on some of the DVD players. DivX uses Advanced Simple Visual Profile and MP3 Audio, and is working towards support for mp4 file format but I don't think that has been released yet. on www.m4if.org/resources.php you can find how to obtain these standards (sold by ISO) and reference SW (free) Hope that helps, Rob -----Original Message----- From: Trevor NG [mailto:trevor@astri.org] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2023 18:05 To: [M4IF Technotes] Subject: [M4IF Technotes] mp4 file format Hi experts, Could anyone here tell me which standards should I refer to in order to create an mp4 file playable back by QuickTime6.3, envivio plugin or MPEG-4 compatible DVD player? Your answer will help me very much. Thanks, Trevor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030625/9e613e4d/attachment.html From liron zoran.co.il Thu Jun 26 10:56:50 2003 From: liron zoran.co.il (Liron Ain-Kedem) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:58 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] mp4 file format In-Reply-To: <000e01c33b7e$f3588a50$4804050a@TrevorNg> Message-ID: Hi Trevor, For DVD Players, the most commong one is AVI File Format. I don't knwo for sure but I'd bet that QuickTime and Envivio knows to play this format as well (Media Player does). If anyone else has more inputs - I'll be gald to hear. Liron -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Trevor NG Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2023 03:05 To: [M4IF Technotes] Subject: [M4IF Technotes] mp4 file format Hi experts, Could anyone here tell me which standards should I refer to in order to create an mp4 file playable back by QuickTime6.3, envivio plugin or MPEG-4 compatible DVD player? Your answer will help me very much. Thanks, Trevor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030626/f6b167c2/attachment.html From russell.merryman bbc.co.uk Thu Jun 26 12:03:28 2003 From: russell.merryman bbc.co.uk (Russell Merryman) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:58 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] mp4 file format Message-ID: <2BF9D226A3C6F146A336D62EE342024416D73D@bbcxue501.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Hi Trevor/Liron For our MPEG4 Newsnight model, we used raw AVI files which were then converted straight to MPEG4 during the encoding by the Envivio authoring tool. This was then playable on QuickTime, WMP and Real (with the Envivio plug-in) Hope this helps Russell Merryman BBC News Interactive -----Original Message----- From: Liron Ain-Kedem [mailto:liron@zoran.co.il] Sent: 26 June 2023 08:57 To: Trevor NG; [M4IF Technotes] Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] mp4 file format Hi Trevor, For DVD Players, the most commong one is AVI File Format. I don't knwo for sure but I'd bet that QuickTime and Envivio knows to play this format as well (Media Player does). If anyone else has more inputs - I'll be gald to hear. Liron -----Original Message----- From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Trevor NG Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2023 03:05 To: [M4IF Technotes] Subject: [M4IF Technotes] mp4 file format Hi experts, Could anyone here tell me which standards should I refer to in order to create an mp4 file playable back by QuickTime6.3, envivio plugin or MPEG-4 compatible DVD player? Your answer will help me very much. Thanks, Trevor BBCi at http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030626/c15aa0bc/attachment.html From ugarg neomagic.com Thu Jun 26 17:18:53 2003 From: ugarg neomagic.com (Umang Garg) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:58 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 AAC-LC: Buggy Conformance Streams Message-ID: <3EFACF95.9000802@neomagic.com> Dear Members, Hello, I understand that the MPEG-4 AAC-LC conformance streams are available at the following FTP site: ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4@ftp.iis.fhg.de/mpeg4audio-conformance I currently have with me an ISO provided 'reference software' that contains the MPEG-4 AAC Decoder ( version 2 ). We purchased that code 1 month back from ISO. In the reference software the AAC decoder is available along with all its tools within the following directory structure: /audio/natural/rewrite/mp4AudVm Now when I try to pass the interim conformance streams available from the FhG, I find them to be buggy !!! For Example: Bitstream number al03_44.wav is a reference wave files with a single channel ( channel 0 ) . al03_44.mp4 is its corresposing reference encoded stream. When I pass al03_44.mp4 through the reference decoder available from the MPEG ( ISO/IEC), I get an output wave file which has two channels ( channel 0 and channel 1) !!! This is just one of the many examples that I can give. Now obviously this means that I cannot establish the conformance test criterion for the generated .wav output with respect to the reference .wav file Even more interestingly, FhG seems to have come up with their own series of AL files starting from al14_*.* to al19_*.* None of these files find a mention in the MPEG-4, Part 4, Conformance Testing document. If what I have written above makes sense then it is really a catch-22 situation. The MPEG-4 AAC Decoder cannot be validated until some body ( hopefully ISO ) comes up with a set of correct conformance test streams. What I would really like to know is: Is this a genuine problem ? Or am I doing something terribly wrong .... Thanks, Umang Garg NeoMagic Design Center -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030626/c7d488c3/attachment.html From StreamingMP4 aol.com Thu Jun 26 12:13:29 2003 From: StreamingMP4 aol.com (StreamingMP4@aol.com) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:58 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Lack of audio-priority in MPEG4 streaming? Ref: Steve Jobs Apple MPEG4 webcast Message-ID: <120.22d9d9a2.2c2c6799@aol.com> The current Steve Jobs webcast from this week's Apple Developers conference is well worth watching and includes discussion of their new post-production-oriented wavelet codec developed with Pixar for high-resolution collaboration and distribution, called Pixlet, as well as their impressive new software platform Panther that integrates web video/audio conferencing: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc03/ The 2 hour webcast itself reveals a serious audio flaw in that MPEG4 video will be maintained, but the audio drops out for very long periods of time when there is a measure of network congestion. For example in playback the first day I watched the entire first hour and could see it acceptably, but there was only perhaps one or two words audible every 10 minutes! During the hour there was only two 10-15 second periods where the audio came through. Video showed some congestion but was OK. I assume there's a standardized parameter in MPEG4 that allows for audio-priority in streaming but I don't how this would be invoked? Are there decoder compatibility issues that might account for such a major speech having this lack of audio-priority vulnerability (I'm sure thousands experienced the same problem.) Is it related to a flaw in the Quicktime wrapper? Is there a known timeframe for this to be fixed (Q to Apple list participants.) Could those of you familiar with this issue shed some light on this? Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20030626/85530600/attachment.html From sps iis.fhg.de Thu Jun 26 21:53:57 2003 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:58 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Question on AAC object type In-Reply-To: <8occb0qjTuB@id-50271.news.dfncis.de> References: <8occb0qjTuB@id-50271.news.dfncis.de> Message-ID: <3EFB4145.9040200@iis.fhg.de> Hans-Juergen Bardenhagen wrote: > On Wednesday, 25.06.03, 10:56 Anil wrote: > > >>1. Can I get an ADTS or ADIF as the transport layer for an MPEG-4 >>stream?? (i guess it is yes, but just to confirm). > > > Not quite, because ADTS and ADIF are the header types of an AAC file > (not a "transport layer" in the usual sense like e.g. HTTP or RTSP) that > has not been multiplexed to a MP4 container yet. Inside this container > the raw AAC bitstream does not have any headers anymore, because these > informations (MPEG-x version, bitrate etc.) are handled by the MP4 file > header then. Maby some more information: - adts ( audio data transport stream ) is intended for transport. It was originally considered as become a "layer 4" (beside layer[123] as specified in ISO/IEC13818-3). - adif ( audio data interchange format ) is intended for storage (it has just one header at the beginning, followed by the raw_data_stream()) Both formats are specified in MPEG-2 and MPEG-4. There are some extensions in MPEG-4 to allow the signalling of AAC LTP in addition to AAC Main, AAC LC, AAC SSR and to distinguish between MPEG-2 and MPEG-4. However, these are AAC specific formats. For MPEG-4 Audio transport it is recommended to use LOAS/LATM (low overhead audio stream, low overhead audio transport multiplex). All these formats are specified in ISO/IEC14496-3. Best regards, Ralph >>2. What is the object type index for AAC LC in case of MPEG-2 and >>MPEG-4. Does this change depending on the transport layer(ADTS or ADIF >>or GA). 3. How do I distinguish b/w MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 in case of ADIF/ >>ADTS (Is it the bitstream_type and adts_id) 4. Where can I get a >>complete documentation of all these things?? > > > A short overview of the ADTS (and ADIF) header structure is available in > the Wiki of Audiocoding.com: > > http://www.audiocoding.com/wiki/index.php?page=ADTS > > If you need more informations than this, you can download the > specifications of MPEG-2 and/or MPEG-4 AAC from the MPEG homepage or the > MPEG Audio Subgroup (links are mentioned in the Wiki, too). This also > refers to the question of the MP4 file format, by the way. > > ZZee ya, Hans-J?rgen > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From sps iis.fhg.de Fri Jun 27 00:08:14 2003 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:58 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: MPEG-4 AAC-LC: Buggy Conformance Streams In-Reply-To: <3EFACF95.9000802@neomagic.com> References: <3EFACF95.9000802@neomagic.com> Message-ID: <3EFB60BE.5020801@iis.fhg.de> Umang Garg wrote: > Dear Members, Hello, > > > I understand that the MPEG-4 AAC-LC conformance streams are available at > the following FTP site: > > ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4@ftp.iis.fhg.de/mpeg4audio-conformance > > I currently have with me an ISO provided 'reference software' that > contains the MPEG-4 AAC Decoder ( version 2 ). We purchased that code 1 > month back from ISO. > > In the reference software the AAC decoder is available along with all > its tools within the following directory structure: > /audio/natural/rewrite/mp4AudVm > > > Now when I try to pass the interim conformance streams available from > the FhG, I find them to be buggy !!! > > > For Example: > > Bitstream number al03_44.wav is a reference wave files with a single > channel ( channel 0 ) . > > al03_44.mp4 is its corresposing reference encoded stream. > > When I pass al03_44.mp4 through the reference decoder available from the > MPEG ( ISO/IEC), I get an output wave file which has two channels ( > channel 0 and channel 1) !!! This is just one of the many examples that > I can give. > > > Now obviously this means that I cannot establish the conformance test > criterion for the generated .wav output with respect to the reference > .wav file > > > Even more interestingly, FhG seems to have come up with their own series > of AL files starting from al14_*.* to al19_*.* > > None of these files find a mention in the MPEG-4, Part 4, Conformance > Testing document. > > If what I have written above makes sense then it is really a catch-22 > situation. The MPEG-4 AAC Decoder cannot be validated until some body ( > hopefully ISO ) comes up with a set of correct conformance test streams. > > What I would really like to know is: Is this a genuine problem ? Or am > I doing something terribly wrong .... > > Thanks, > > Umang Garg > NeoMagic Design Center > Dear Umang, please find below some comments with regard to your observations. reference software: ------------------- I can confirm the behavior you describe (just downloaded the code from http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/ISO_IEC_14496-5_2001_Software_Reference/ and compiled it), but have no idea why that decoder generates an output file with two channels while decoding al03_44.mp4. As long as you only like to deal with AAC (Main, LC, SSR or LTP), you might alternatively use the multichannel AAC decoder (available under /audio/natural/refSoft/mp4mcDec). I checked this decoder as well and it produced just one channel. Thus, the sequence is correct, but the rewrite decoder is malfunctioning. Anyway, you should consider that the software you purchased from ISO is outdated (it is about 2 years old). It always takes ISO a significant time to publish any new standard piece. So one reason to become an MPEG member might be to have access to weekly snapshots of the MPEG-4 audio reference software. With the current rewrite decoder I get just one channel if I decode al03_44.mp4 (hence, this bug has been fixed meanwhile ;-)). conformance test sequences: --------------------------- All al* conformance test sequences on our server (except of al15, which is currently in the process to be updated) have successfully been cross-checked. All of them can be decoded with the multichannel decoder. The rewrite decoder does not yet support DRC and multichannel decoding (just mono and stereo). It is not that FhG has come up with their own series of test sequences. The sequences on our server are even not the property of FhG. We just support the work of MPEG on a complimentary basis in hosting these sequences and furthermore in providing access to them even for non-MPEG members. * al14, al15, al16 and al17 have been added by means of ISO/IEC 14496-4:2000/Cor.2 (unfortunately not yet published): - al14, al15 and al16 test DRC (previously there where only sequences for AAC Main available to test DRC). - al17 tests the evaluation of the element_instance_tag (it provides two SCEs, where the order of them switches from frame to frame) * al09 and al10 have been renamed to al18 and al19 to avoid name conflicts with MPEG-2 AAC conformance test sequences. All these issues are covered by the second edition of ISO/IEC14496-3, which is also not yet published (again, it is out of MPEG?s hands, but needs to be processed by ITTF). I hope this helps for the moment. I know that its not always easy to understand what is going on in MPEG, especially since it takes occasionally a longer time for ISO/ITTF to publish new standards. However, MPEG members are usually nice and answer any questions related to their standardization work, as long as they are asked in a friendly manner ;-). Best regards, Ralph -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From anil.kumar ittiam.com Fri Jun 27 12:04:00 2003 From: anil.kumar ittiam.com (Anil Kumar) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:59 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Question on AAC object type Message-ID: <45A1F95BB9D7D84FAB0A1EB4D67EEF960175B7@is01ex01.ittiam.com> Hi Ralph, All, Regarding my previous question, most of my doubts were clarified thanks to Mr. Hans-J?rgen who pointed me to the audiocoding.com's wiki... apparently, the ADTS header format was changed a little in Dec 2002 (according to the wiki). However, I have one question... how do i keep track of such changes?? being an ISO member, is there any way we can get a newsletter or something which intimates us of all these changes?? where can I find the latest corrigendums/ammendments of ISO?? Thanks, Anil -----Original Message----- From: Ralph Sperschneider [mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de] Sent: Friday, June 27, 2023 12:24 AM To: Hans-Juergen Bardenhagen Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Question on AAC object type Hans-Juergen Bardenhagen wrote: > On Wednesday, 25.06.03, 10:56 Anil wrote: > > >>1. Can I get an ADTS or ADIF as the transport layer for an MPEG-4 >>stream?? (i guess it is yes, but just to confirm). > > > Not quite, because ADTS and ADIF are the header types of an AAC file > (not a "transport layer" in the usual sense like e.g. HTTP or RTSP) that > has not been multiplexed to a MP4 container yet. Inside this container > the raw AAC bitstream does not have any headers anymore, because these > informations (MPEG-x version, bitrate etc.) are handled by the MP4 file > header then. Maby some more information: - adts ( audio data transport stream ) is intended for transport. It was originally considered as become a "layer 4" (beside layer[123] as specified in ISO/IEC13818-3). - adif ( audio data interchange format ) is intended for storage (it has just one header at the beginning, followed by the raw_data_stream()) Both formats are specified in MPEG-2 and MPEG-4. There are some extensions in MPEG-4 to allow the signalling of AAC LTP in addition to AAC Main, AAC LC, AAC SSR and to distinguish between MPEG-2 and MPEG-4. However, these are AAC specific formats. For MPEG-4 Audio transport it is recommended to use LOAS/LATM (low overhead audio stream, low overhead audio transport multiplex). All these formats are specified in ISO/IEC14496-3. Best regards, Ralph >>2. What is the object type index for AAC LC in case of MPEG-2 and >>MPEG-4. Does this change depending on the transport layer(ADTS or ADIF >>or GA). 3. How do I distinguish b/w MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 in case of ADIF/ >>ADTS (Is it the bitstream_type and adts_id) 4. Where can I get a >>complete documentation of all these things?? > > > A short overview of the ADTS (and ADIF) header structure is available in > the Wiki of Audiocoding.com: > > http://www.audiocoding.com/wiki/index.php?page=ADTS > > If you need more informations than this, you can download the > specifications of MPEG-2 and/or MPEG-4 AAC from the MPEG homepage or the > MPEG Audio Subgroup (links are mentioned in the Wiki, too). This also > refers to the question of the MP4 file format, by the way. > > ZZee ya, Hans-J?rgen > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ _______________________________________________ Technotes mailing list Technotes@lists.m4if.org http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From ugarg neomagic.com Fri Jun 27 13:32:26 2003 From: ugarg neomagic.com (Umang Garg) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:59 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re-2: MPEG-4 AAC-LC: Buggy Conformance Streams References: <3EFACF95.9000802@neomagic.com> <3EFB60BE.5020801@iis.fhg.de> Message-ID: <3EFBEC02.9010606@neomagic.com> Dear Ralph and other technotes members - Hello, Thank you, for your inputs. They are very helpful. NeoMagic Corporation is a 'full member' of the MPEG-4 Industry Forum. You can find our name on membership list of the MP4IF given at the following url: http://www.m4if.org/membercompanies.php?PHPSESSID=1d3dab78ae73103faf76ca1b8b7f7763 NeoMagic is very interested in updating the outdated MPEG-4 reference code that was shipped by ISO. What should we do to facilitate that objective ? Is the membership of the MP4IF a sufficient condition to get the weekly snapshots of the latest audio reference code ( along with a fully working version ! ) ? If yes, from where can I obtain the latest release ? OR, is it necessary to become a member of the MPEG-4 committee in order to get those regular updates ( along with a fully working version ! ) ? If yes, how can we take that initiative forward ? I look forward to inputs on this matter. Best Regards, Umang Garg NeoMagic Corporation Ralph Sperschneider wrote: > Umang Garg wrote: > >> Dear Members, Hello, >> >> >> I understand that the MPEG-4 AAC-LC conformance streams are available >> at the following FTP site: >> >> ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4@ftp.iis.fhg.de/mpeg4audio-conformance >> >> I currently have with me an ISO provided 'reference software' that >> contains the MPEG-4 AAC Decoder ( version 2 ). We purchased that >> code 1 month back from ISO. >> >> In the reference software the AAC decoder is available along with all >> its tools within the following directory structure: >> /audio/natural/rewrite/mp4AudVm >> >> >> Now when I try to pass the interim conformance streams available from >> the FhG, I find them to be buggy !!! >> >> >> For Example: >> >> Bitstream number al03_44.wav is a reference wave files with a single >> channel ( channel 0 ) . >> >> al03_44.mp4 is its corresposing reference encoded stream. >> >> When I pass al03_44.mp4 through the reference decoder available from >> the MPEG ( ISO/IEC), I get an output wave file which has two channels >> ( channel 0 and channel 1) !!! This is just one of the many examples >> that I can give. >> >> >> Now obviously this means that I cannot establish the conformance test >> criterion for the generated .wav output with respect to the reference >> .wav file >> >> >> Even more interestingly, FhG seems to have come up with their own >> series of AL files starting from al14_*.* to al19_*.* >> >> None of these files find a mention in the MPEG-4, Part 4, Conformance >> Testing document. >> >> If what I have written above makes sense then it is really a catch-22 >> situation. The MPEG-4 AAC Decoder cannot be validated until some body >> ( hopefully ISO ) comes up with a set of correct conformance test >> streams. >> >> What I would really like to know is: Is this a genuine problem ? Or >> am I doing something terribly wrong .... >> >> Thanks, >> >> Umang Garg >> NeoMagic Design Center >> > > Dear Umang, > > please find below some comments with regard to your observations. > > reference software: > ------------------- > I can confirm the behavior you describe (just downloaded the code from > http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/ISO_IEC_14496-5_2001_Software_Reference/ > and compiled it), but have no idea why that decoder generates an > output file with two channels while decoding al03_44.mp4. As long as > you only like to deal with AAC (Main, LC, SSR or LTP), you might > alternatively use the multichannel AAC decoder (available under > /audio/natural/refSoft/mp4mcDec). I checked this decoder as well and > it produced just one channel. Thus, the sequence is correct, but the > rewrite decoder is malfunctioning. > > Anyway, you should consider that the software you purchased from ISO > is outdated (it is about 2 years old). It always takes ISO a > significant time to publish any new standard piece. So one reason to > become an MPEG member might be to have access to weekly snapshots of > the MPEG-4 audio reference software. With the current rewrite decoder > I get just one channel if I decode al03_44.mp4 (hence, this bug has > been fixed meanwhile ;-)). > > conformance test sequences: > --------------------------- > All al* conformance test sequences on our server (except of al15, > which is currently in the process to be updated) have successfully > been cross-checked. All of them can be decoded with the multichannel > decoder. The rewrite decoder does not yet support DRC and multichannel > decoding (just mono and stereo). > > It is not that FhG has come up with their own series of test > sequences. The sequences on our server are even not the property of > FhG. We just support the work of MPEG on a complimentary basis in > hosting these sequences and furthermore in providing access to them > even for non-MPEG members. > > * al14, al15, al16 and al17 have been added by means of ISO/IEC > 14496-4:2000/Cor.2 (unfortunately not yet published): > - al14, al15 and al16 test DRC (previously there where only > sequences for AAC > Main available to test DRC). > - al17 tests the evaluation of the element_instance_tag (it provides > two SCEs, > where the order of them switches from frame to frame) > * al09 and al10 have been renamed to al18 and al19 to avoid name > conflicts with > MPEG-2 AAC conformance test sequences. > > All these issues are covered by the second edition of ISO/IEC14496-3, > which is also not yet published (again, it is out of MPEG?s hands, but > needs to be processed by ITTF). > > I hope this helps for the moment. I know that its not always easy to > understand what is going on in MPEG, especially since it takes > occasionally a longer time for ISO/ITTF to publish new standards. > However, MPEG members are usually nice and answer any questions > related to their standardization work, as long as they are asked in a > friendly manner ;-). > > Best regards, > > Ralph > From sps iis.fhg.de Fri Jun 27 19:18:45 2003 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:59 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Question on AAC object type In-Reply-To: <8ogdDWSUTuB@id-50271.news.dfncis.de> References: <8ogdDWSUTuB@id-50271.news.dfncis.de> Message-ID: <3EFC6E65.1080602@iis.fhg.de> Hans-Juergen Bardenhagen wrote: > On Thursday, 26.06.03, 20:53 Ralph Sperschneider wrote: > > >>For MPEG-4 Audio transport it is recommended to use LOAS/LATM (low >>overhead audio stream, low overhead audio transport multiplex). > > > Oops, never heard of that one... Is this meant to be used in a MP4 > container or as a plain AAC file being streamed in the internet for > example? LOAS/LATM is for MPEG-4 Natural Audio _streaming_. Since it is specified for Audio only, it is defined in ISO/IEC14496-3. It can be used to stream all flavors of AAC, but also for the other MPEG-4 naatural audio codecs. MP4FF is for MPEG-4 _storage_. Since the MP4 file format is specified for all MPEG-4 content it is specified in ISO/IEC14496-1. It is however intended to become specified in ISO/IEC14496-12 (isomedia file format) and ISO/IEC14496-14 (mp4 file format as an instance of the isomedia file format). Does this answer your question or do you need more information? Best regards, Ralph > >>All these formats are specified in ISO/IEC14496-3. > > > Thank you very much for your additional informations. :-) > > ZZee ya, Hans-J?rgen > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From sps iis.fhg.de Fri Jun 27 19:35:54 2003 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:59 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: AAC: PNS scale factors In-Reply-To: <64defvolce779lsk6ias1pn81hfq5qst5g@4ax.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030618130138.01934788@unixmail.qualcomm.com> <4l23fvofs2fgmilqesqfc62enechp01p81@4ax.com> <3EF7330A.8050000@iis.fhg.de> <64defvolce779lsk6ias1pn81hfq5qst5g@4ax.com> Message-ID: <3EFC726A.1030905@iis.fhg.de> John Cox wrote: > Dear Ralph > > I'm glad that you agree that the standard and reference stuff don't > match at the moment. Your fix is probably optimal. However, in my case > where I am implementing a fixed-point decoder, perfoming a square root > on a general number is hard, whereas the individual sample scale factor > can be pulled from a small lookup table (after all there are only about > 32 availible values of size). I don't know how important having the > correct energy in any given frame is vs. having the correct energy over > time - has anyone done any tests? Dear John, I have been informed from our DSP specialists that for fixed point implementations there is a less complex algorithm available to derive 1/sqrt(x) directly (just multiplications shall be required in this case). Having the correct energy in any band seems to essential according to our experience. > Ideally there would by synced 'random' number generators in the encoder > and decoder so the encoder knows exactly what to expect, in which case > there would be no need for the final renormalization. I guess you agree with me that this is a theoretical approach only. ;-) Best regards, Ralph > Many thanks > > John Cox > SJ Consulting > > > On Mon, 23 Jun 2023 19:04:10 +0200, you wrote: > > >>Dear John, >> >>the reference software comes with the following code: >> >> norm = 1.0 / sqrt( size * MEAN_NRG ); >> for (i=0; i> spec[i] = (Float)(random2( state ) * norm); >> nrg += spec[i] * spec[i]; >> } >> s = 1.0 / sqrt( nrg ); >> for (i=0; i> spec[i] *= s; >> } >> >>Due to the second rescaling, the first scaling is obsolete. Thus, MEAN_NRG can >>have any non-zero value, the output will always be the same. >> >>Beside this, the rescaling formula in the standard seems to be wrong, and the >>formula used in the software seems to be correct. >> >>However, the algorithm using MEAN_NRG does not assure that the energy per band >>fits the requirements, since the delivered random values (its a finite number) >>might have another mean energy. Therefore, the second rescaling has been added >>in the software. >> >>Subsequently, we tend to propose a correction of the pseudo code in the standard >>as follows: >> >>nrg=0; >>gen_rand_vector( &spec[g][b][sfb][0], size ); >>for (i=0; i> nrg += spec[g][b][sfb][i] * spec[g][b][sfb][i]; >>} >>/* avoid division by zero */ >>sqrt_nrg = sqrt (nrg); >>if (sqrt_nrg <= 0.0f ) { >> sqrt_nrg = FLT_MIN; >>} >>scale = (2.0^(0.25*noise_nrg [g][sfb]))/sqrt_nrg; >> >>/* Scale random vector to desired target energy */ >>for (i=0; i> spec[g][b][sfb][i] *= scale; >>} >> >>The subsequent text needs than to be adopted as follows: >>"The function gen_rand_vector( addr, size ) generates a vector of length >>with signed random values. A suitable random number generator can be realized >>using one multiplication/accumulation per random value." >> >>What do you think about this? >> >>Best regards, >> >>Ralph >> >>John Cox wrote: >> >>>Hi >>> >>>Thanks for the pointer. If those reference wav files are definitive >>>then the published standard is wrong and the reference software is >>>right. The scale factor should read: >>> >>>scale = 1/sqrt(size * MEAN_NRG); >>> >>>Many thanks >>> >>>John Cox >>> >>> >>> >>>>Dear John, >>>> >>>>I don't have an answer to your first question. But for the reference wav >>>>files, you can fetch them from: >>>>ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4@ftp.iis.fhg.de/guests/mpeg4audio/incoming/testSequences/mpeg4audio-conformance/referencesWav/ >>>> >>>>Regards, >>>>Eddie >>>> >>>>At 04:09 PM 6/18/2003 +0100, John Cox wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Hi >>>>> >>>>>The standard says (ISO/IEC 14496-3:2001(E); 4.6.13.3 page 174) that the >>>>>initial scale factor for PNS values is: >>>>> >>>>>scale = 1/(size * sqrt(MEAN_NRG)); >>>>> >>>>>however the reference software from the ISO site (both refSoft & >>>>>rewrite) seems to calculate it as: >>>>> >>>>>scale = 1/sqrt(size * MEAN_NRG)); >>>>> >>>>>Which is "correct" and what have other people done? >>>>> >>>>>I've found the PNS reference streams AL18*.mp4 & AL19*.mp4 (though not >>>>>AL09,10,11) but no corresponding .wavs to check against - do they exist >>>>>anywhere? >>>>> >>>>>Many thanks >>>>> >>>>>John Cox >>>>>SJ Consulting >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Technotes mailing list >>>Technotes@lists.m4if.org >>>http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From sps iis.fhg.de Fri Jun 27 19:43:20 2003 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:59 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re-3: MPEG-4 AAC-LC: Buggy Conformance Streams In-Reply-To: <3EFBEC02.9010606@neomagic.com> References: <3EFACF95.9000802@neomagic.com> <3EFB60BE.5020801@iis.fhg.de> <3EFBEC02.9010606@neomagic.com> Message-ID: <3EFC7428.5000109@iis.fhg.de> Dear Umang, the memberships of MPEG and M4IF are separate of each other. To become an MPEG member you have to be nominated by your national body that is member of ISO to join the work of ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC29/WG11. Check out http://www.itscj.ipsj.or.jp/sc29/29w2po.htm to find the appropriate standardization organization for your country. Rob, please correct me if this is not fully correct. Maybe M4IF has already appropriate inforation on its FAQ. Best regards, Ralph Umang Garg wrote: > Dear Ralph and other technotes members - Hello, > > Thank you, for your inputs. They are very helpful. > > NeoMagic Corporation is a 'full member' of the MPEG-4 Industry Forum. > You can find our name on membership list of the MP4IF given at the > following url: > > http://www.m4if.org/membercompanies.php?PHPSESSID=1d3dab78ae73103faf76ca1b8b7f7763 > > > NeoMagic is very interested in updating the outdated MPEG-4 reference > code that was shipped by ISO. What should we do to facilitate that > objective ? > > Is the membership of the MP4IF a sufficient condition to get the weekly > snapshots of the latest audio reference code ( along with a fully > working version ! ) ? > If yes, from where can I obtain the latest release ? > > OR, is it necessary to become a member of the MPEG-4 committee in order > to get those regular updates ( along with a fully working version ! ) ? > If yes, how can we take that initiative forward ? > > I look forward to inputs on this matter. > > Best Regards, > > Umang Garg > NeoMagic Corporation > > > Ralph Sperschneider wrote: > >> Umang Garg wrote: >> >>> Dear Members, Hello, >>> >>> >>> I understand that the MPEG-4 AAC-LC conformance streams are available >>> at the following FTP site: >>> >>> ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4@ftp.iis.fhg.de/mpeg4audio-conformance >>> >>> I currently have with me an ISO provided 'reference software' that >>> contains the MPEG-4 AAC Decoder ( version 2 ). We purchased that >>> code 1 month back from ISO. >>> >>> In the reference software the AAC decoder is available along with all >>> its tools within the following directory structure: >>> /audio/natural/rewrite/mp4AudVm >>> >>> >>> Now when I try to pass the interim conformance streams available from >>> the FhG, I find them to be buggy !!! >>> >>> >>> For Example: >>> >>> Bitstream number al03_44.wav is a reference wave files with a single >>> channel ( channel 0 ) . >>> >>> al03_44.mp4 is its corresposing reference encoded stream. >>> >>> When I pass al03_44.mp4 through the reference decoder available from >>> the MPEG ( ISO/IEC), I get an output wave file which has two channels >>> ( channel 0 and channel 1) !!! This is just one of the many examples >>> that I can give. >>> >>> >>> Now obviously this means that I cannot establish the conformance test >>> criterion for the generated .wav output with respect to the reference >>> .wav file >>> >>> >>> Even more interestingly, FhG seems to have come up with their own >>> series of AL files starting from al14_*.* to al19_*.* >>> >>> None of these files find a mention in the MPEG-4, Part 4, Conformance >>> Testing document. >>> >>> If what I have written above makes sense then it is really a catch-22 >>> situation. The MPEG-4 AAC Decoder cannot be validated until some body >>> ( hopefully ISO ) comes up with a set of correct conformance test >>> streams. >>> >>> What I would really like to know is: Is this a genuine problem ? Or >>> am I doing something terribly wrong .... >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Umang Garg >>> NeoMagic Design Center >>> >> >> Dear Umang, >> >> please find below some comments with regard to your observations. >> >> reference software: >> ------------------- >> I can confirm the behavior you describe (just downloaded the code from >> http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/ISO_IEC_14496-5_2001_Software_Reference/ >> and compiled it), but have no idea why that decoder generates an >> output file with two channels while decoding al03_44.mp4. As long as >> you only like to deal with AAC (Main, LC, SSR or LTP), you might >> alternatively use the multichannel AAC decoder (available under >> /audio/natural/refSoft/mp4mcDec). I checked this decoder as well and >> it produced just one channel. Thus, the sequence is correct, but the >> rewrite decoder is malfunctioning. >> >> Anyway, you should consider that the software you purchased from ISO >> is outdated (it is about 2 years old). It always takes ISO a >> significant time to publish any new standard piece. So one reason to >> become an MPEG member might be to have access to weekly snapshots of >> the MPEG-4 audio reference software. With the current rewrite decoder >> I get just one channel if I decode al03_44.mp4 (hence, this bug has >> been fixed meanwhile ;-)). >> >> conformance test sequences: >> --------------------------- >> All al* conformance test sequences on our server (except of al15, >> which is currently in the process to be updated) have successfully >> been cross-checked. All of them can be decoded with the multichannel >> decoder. The rewrite decoder does not yet support DRC and multichannel >> decoding (just mono and stereo). >> >> It is not that FhG has come up with their own series of test >> sequences. The sequences on our server are even not the property of >> FhG. We just support the work of MPEG on a complimentary basis in >> hosting these sequences and furthermore in providing access to them >> even for non-MPEG members. >> >> * al14, al15, al16 and al17 have been added by means of ISO/IEC >> 14496-4:2000/Cor.2 (unfortunately not yet published): >> - al14, al15 and al16 test DRC (previously there where only >> sequences for AAC >> Main available to test DRC). >> - al17 tests the evaluation of the element_instance_tag (it provides >> two SCEs, >> where the order of them switches from frame to frame) >> * al09 and al10 have been renamed to al18 and al19 to avoid name >> conflicts with >> MPEG-2 AAC conformance test sequences. >> >> All these issues are covered by the second edition of ISO/IEC14496-3, >> which is also not yet published (again, it is out of MPEG?s hands, but >> needs to be processed by ITTF). >> >> I hope this helps for the moment. I know that its not always easy to >> understand what is going on in MPEG, especially since it takes >> occasionally a longer time for ISO/ITTF to publish new standards. >> However, MPEG members are usually nice and answer any questions >> related to their standardization work, as long as they are asked in a >> friendly manner ;-). >> >> Best regards, >> >> Ralph >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From sps iis.fhg.de Fri Jun 27 19:51:35 2003 From: sps iis.fhg.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:10:59 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Question on AAC object type In-Reply-To: <45A1F95BB9D7D84FAB0A1EB4D67EEF960175B7@is01ex01.ittiam.com> References: <45A1F95BB9D7D84FAB0A1EB4D67EEF960175B7@is01ex01.ittiam.com> Message-ID: <3EFC7617.4000402@iis.fhg.de> Dear Anil, there is unfortunately no such thing as a newsletter. The only possibly way I am aware of is to stay tuned to what is going on during the MPEG meetings. This can be done by participation, by screening the output documents of each meeting and in joining the interested ad-hoc groups. All published standards are available here: http://www.iso.org/iso/en/CatalogueListPage.CatalogueList (for MPEG-4, just type the standard number 14496). Non-publicated standards are only available as meeting output documents, thus only available to MPEG members. Hope this helps, Ralph Anil Kumar wrote: > Hi Ralph, All, > Regarding my previous question, most of my doubts were clarified thanks > to Mr. Hans-J?rgen who pointed me to the audiocoding.com's wiki... apparently, > the ADTS header format was changed a little in Dec 2002 (according to the > wiki). However, I have one question... how do i keep track of such changes?? > being an ISO member, is there any way we can get a newsletter or something > which intimates us of all these changes?? where can I find the latest > corrigendums/ammendments of ISO?? > > Thanks, > Anil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ralph Sperschneider [mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de] > Sent: Friday, June 27, 2023 12:24 AM > To: Hans-Juergen Bardenhagen > Cc: technotes@lists.m4if.org > Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: Question on AAC object type > > > > > Hans-Juergen Bardenhagen wrote: > > >>On Wednesday, 25.06.03, 10:56 Anil wrote: >> >> >> >>>1. Can I get an ADTS or ADIF as the transport layer for an MPEG-4 >>>stream?? (i guess it is yes, but just to confirm). >> >> >>Not quite, because ADTS and ADIF are the header types of an AAC file >>(not a "transport layer" in the usual sense like e.g. HTTP or RTSP) that >>has not been multiplexed to a MP4 container yet. Inside this container >>the raw AAC bitstream does not have any headers anymore, because these >>informations (MPEG-x version, bitrate etc.) are handled by the MP4 file >>header then. > > > Maby some more information: > - adts ( audio data transport stream ) is intended for transport. It was > originally considered as become a "layer 4" (beside layer[123] as specified in > ISO/IEC13818-3). > - adif ( audio data interchange format ) is intended for storage (it has just > one header at the beginning, followed by the raw_data_stream()) > > Both formats are specified in MPEG-2 and MPEG-4. There are some extensions in > MPEG-4 to allow the signalling of AAC LTP in addition to AAC Main, AAC LC, AAC > SSR and to distinguish between MPEG-2 and MPEG-4. However, these are AAC > specific formats. > > For MPEG-4 Audio transport it is recommended to use LOAS/LATM (low overhead > audio stream, low overhead audio transport multiplex). > > All these formats are specified in ISO/IEC14496-3. > > Best regards, > > Ralph > > >>>2. What is the object type index for AAC LC in case of MPEG-2 and >>>MPEG-4. Does this change depending on the transport layer(ADTS or ADIF >>>or GA). 3. How do I distinguish b/w MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 in case of ADIF/ >>>ADTS (Is it the bitstream_type and adts_id) 4. Where can I get a >>>complete documentation of all these things?? >> >> >>A short overview of the ADTS (and ADIF) header structure is available in >>the Wiki of Audiocoding.com: >> >>http://www.audiocoding.com/wiki/index.php?page=ADTS >> >>If you need more informations than this, you can download the >>specifications of MPEG-2 and/or MPEG-4 AAC from the MPEG homepage or the >>MPEG Audio Subgroup (links are mentioned in the Wiki, too). This also >>refers to the question of the MP4 file format, by the way. >> >>ZZee ya, Hans-J?rgen >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Technotes mailing list >>Technotes@lists.m4if.org >>http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes > > -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 344 FhG IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 398 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:sps@iis.fhg.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fhg.de/amm/ From rob.koenen m4if.org Fri Jun 27 11:12:58 2003 From: rob.koenen m4if.org (Rob Koenen (M4IF)) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:11:00 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re-3: MPEG-4 AAC-LC: Buggy Conformance Streams In-Reply-To: <3EFC7428.5000109@iis.fhg.de> Message-ID: <001001c33ccf$640d83d0$b50a010a@corp.intertrust.com> > the memberships of MPEG and M4IF are separate of each other. > To become an MPEG > member you have to be nominated by your national body that is > member of ISO to > join the work of ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC29/WG11. Check out > http://www.itscj.ipsj.or.jp/sc29/29w2po.htm to find the appropriate > standardization organization for your country. > > Rob, please correct me if this is not fully correct. I have nothing to correct. Thanks Ralph. Rob From jc sj.co.uk Fri Jun 27 19:14:04 2003 From: jc sj.co.uk (John Cox) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:11:00 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Re: AAC: PNS scale factors In-Reply-To: <3EFC726A.1030905@iis.fhg.de> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030618130138.01934788@unixmail.qualcomm.com> <4l23fvofs2fgmilqesqfc62enechp01p81@4ax.com> <3EF7330A.8050000@iis.fhg.de> <64defvolce779lsk6ias1pn81hfq5qst5g@4ax.com> <3EFC726A.1030905@iis.fhg.de> Message-ID: Dear Ralph >> Ideally there would by synced 'random' number generators in the encoder >> and decoder so the encoder knows exactly what to expect, in which case >> there would be no need for the final renormalization. > >I guess you agree with me that this is a theoretical approach only. ;-) Given the current protocol it has got to be theoretical only. However the only extension required is a single bit to reset the 'random number' generator to a known state. After that you define a random number generator (say random2 from the reference software) in the standard. A profile requirement to set the 'reset' bit once every (say) 8 frames should make it all work. This is a lot less complex to do than the standard prediction tool. Regards John Cox From kh237 cornell.edu Fri Jun 27 11:47:32 2003 From: kh237 cornell.edu (Keigo Hirakawa) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:11:00 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 'invalid' motion vector In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all. This is probably a question that has been answered before. In section 7.6.5 of the MPEG4 spec part 2, vector decoding processing is described. Clause 1) says "If a candidate predictor MVi is in a transparent spatial neighborhood macroblock or in a transparent block of the current macroblock it is not valid, otherwise, it is set to the corresponding block vector" In the paragraph immediately following, the spec says "note that any neighborhood macroblock outside the current VOP or video packet or outside the current GOB for which gob_header_empty is "0" is treated as transparent in the above sense." Now, suppose we are coding a P-VOP. If macroblock corresponding to MVi is type 3 or 4 (ie, no motion vector), what happens to MVi? The spec does not specifically say "make it invalid". Thanks. Keigo From bach noida.interrasystems.com Sat Jun 28 19:38:04 2003 From: bach noida.interrasystems.com (Biswajit Acharya) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:11:01 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] 'invalid' motion vector References: Message-ID: <3EFD9334.D22D4D2A@noida.interrasystems.com> Hi Hirakawa, Motion vector components of Intra MBs (type 3 or 4) are considered to be zero. Hecne, if these MBs are valid (in the sense mentioned in the spec.), then assume the corresponding motion vector components to be zero. -- Bach Keigo Hirakawa wrote: > > Hi all. This is probably a question that has been answered before. > > In section 7.6.5 of the MPEG4 spec part 2, vector decoding processing is > described. Clause 1) says > > "If a candidate predictor MVi is in a transparent spatial neighborhood > macroblock or in a transparent block of the current macroblock it is not > valid, otherwise, it is set to the corresponding block vector" > > In the paragraph immediately following, the spec says > > "note that any neighborhood macroblock outside the current VOP or video > packet or outside the current GOB for which gob_header_empty is "0" is > treated as transparent in the above sense." > > Now, suppose we are coding a P-VOP. If macroblock corresponding to MVi is > type 3 or 4 (ie, no motion vector), what happens to MVi? The spec does not > specifically say "make it invalid". > > Thanks. > Keigo > > _______________________________________________ > Technotes mailing list > Technotes@lists.m4if.org > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes From zhweizh mailst.xjtu.edu.cn Mon Jun 30 19:17:36 2003 From: zhweizh mailst.xjtu.edu.cn (zhweizh) Date: Wed Jul 30 14:11:01 2003 Subject: [M4IF Technotes] some rate-control problems Message-ID: <200306301021.h5UALGY14832@lists1.magma.ca> Hi, I find that Q2 MB-based rate control is only valid for encoding a single rectangular VOP with the coding structure I P P P P. who can tell me where I can download Momusys VM whose Q2 MB_based rate control which is valid for all coding structures IPPPPP.. or IBBPBBPBBP!! zhweizh zhweizh@mailst.xjtu.edu.cn