From dmitriy graphics.cs.msu.ru Thu Jun 1 04:13:46 2006 From: dmitriy graphics.cs.msu.ru (Dmitriy Vatolin) Date: Thu Jun 1 09:51:27 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Decoders error concealment methods comparison Message-ID: <1892608589.20060601031346@graphics.cs.msu.ru> Dear mp4-tech experts, CS MSU Graphics&Media Lab published new comparison - decoders "crash test" - testing of decoders error suppression. This feature is actual for satellite broadcasting and scratched DVD, so it's actual for MPEG-2 and (soon) H.264. In current preliminary tests MPEG-2 decoders was tested (we assume they are more prepared for such tests). Following codecs was tested (alphabetic list): * bitcontrol MPEG-2 Video Decoder * DScaler MPEG2 Video Decoder * Elecard MPEG-2 Video Decoder * ffdshow MPEG-4 Video Decoder (libavcodec) * InterVideo Video Decoder * Ligos MPEG Video Decoder * MainConcept MPEG Video Decoder * Pinnacle MPEG-2 Decoder Main idea: We prepared damaged stream and decompressed this stream with _every_ tested decoder (so all decoders was compared on the _same_ damaged stream). Such comparison was done 100 times for every error probability to increase results reliability. This testing was preliminary. We want to tune our testing methodology during this year and will use in for more advanced testing of MPEG-2 decoders and H.264 decoders. Commonly different decoder use pretty different error concealment methods. Current results available in PDF (2Mb) here: http://www.compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/mpeg-2_2006_en.html Any ideas and notes about current and future decoders comparisons are welcome. Yours, Dr. Vatolin From dattagurubn yahoo.com Thu Jun 1 00:46:50 2006 From: dattagurubn yahoo.com (Dattaguru B.N.) Date: Thu Jun 1 09:51:30 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [Audio] Delay in eAAC+ Decoding Message-ID: <20060601064650.38714.qmail@web34702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Experts, Can anybody please let me know the reason for the delay in case of eAAC+ decoding as compared to AAC. I know there is some delay introduced by AAC+ as compared to AAC (962 samples). But with eAAC+ the delay is no where related with 962 samples. Can anybody please help me in understanding the reason for the delay. Thanks in advance Best Regards, Datta __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Martin.Lange sci-worx.com Thu Jun 1 11:11:23 2006 From: Martin.Lange sci-worx.com (Martin.Lange@sci-worx.com) Date: Thu Jun 1 09:51:34 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] purpose of non-existing pictures Message-ID: <7E6219E8CD869D4186B919B0DCF127C0013A86CD@hajse201.eu.infineon.com> Hi Gary / Wesley et al, thanks for your comments on this topic. As far as I understood it from the standard a "non-existing" reference picture may never be referred to by a reference index, which makes sense in the context of sub-sequences, i.e., pictures from a sub-sequence refer to pictures from the same sub-sequence, but never to "non-existing" pictures from other sub-sequences. However, in case of data loss over the transmission channel the encoder would have to get feedback about which picture has been lost in order to know which reference pictures one of the following encoded pictures may refer to and which they may not refer to when he wants to use this feature for purposes of error robustness. Of course, this is only the case if gaps_in_frame_num_value_allowed_flag is 1 since otherwise the standard leaves it open how to handle lossed pictures, as Wesley also commented. But I understood that Gary pointed out setting gaps_in_frame_num_value_allowed_flag to 1 and then using this for error robustness. If the encoder gets no feedback then it will not be able to create a stream which still conforms to the standard in the sense that no references to non-existing pictures are allowed. Best Regards, Martin Lange >-----Original Message----- >From: Gary Sullivan [mailto:garysull@windows.microsoft.com] >Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2024 9:15 PM >To: Lange Martin (SCI); mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org >Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] purpose of non-existing pictures > > >Martin et al, > >One type of use of this feature is to enable a form of >temporal bitstream scalability in which some reference >pictures can be removed from the bitstream without harming the >ability to decode the remaining pictures. For example, I >suggest reading the information in the standard relating to >"sub-sequence" concepts (esp. D.2.11 through D.2.13). I >believe this is the primary purpose. > >Also, it can provide a form of robustness to >transmission-channel losses of some reference pictures. If a >reference picture becomes "non-existing" due to packet losses, >the remaining pictures in the bitstream may still be >decodable. This definition provides a well-defined decoder >behavior for environments in which in the system operation may >result in the loss of some reference pictures. For such a >case, it might not really be necessary to specify how the >decoder would respond to a picture loss -- however, this >feature allows the encoder to decide whether the decoder >should flag the loss of a picture as a real problem or not (by >setting the value of the gaps_in_frame_num_value_allowed_flag >to 0 or 1) and allows the encoder to understand how the >decoder will respond to such events, which can be beneficial >to know for various purposes. > >In fact, the way the decoder responds to a missing reference >picture when gaps_in_frame_num_value_allowed_flag is equal to >1 may often also be a good way for the decoder to respond to a >missing reference picture when >gaps_in_frame_num_value_allowed_flag is equal to 0 as well. >But when when gaps_in_frame_num_value_allowed_flag is equal to >0, it is up to the individual product designer to decide how >the decoder should respond to missing reference pictures. > >Best Regards, > >Gary Sullivan > >Dear Martin, > >I think you rather have to look at "non-existing" frames from >a decoder point of view. Then, temporal scalability is a >possible scenario in which gaps might be introduced in >frame_num. Frame loss due to packet dropping in a congested >network is another one. > >When no gaps in frame_num are allowed (the value of >gaps_in_frame_num_value_allowed_flag is equal to zero), >decoders infer disposed reference frames from gaps in the >frame_num syntax element and insert a "non-existing'' frame to >the reference picture buffer as if the frame was received and >decoded. This procedure guarantees that the contents of and >the picture order in the reference picture buffer remain >unchanged when it comes to the decoding of the remaining >pictures. This process is not executed when gaps in frame_num >are allowed (the value of gaps_in_frame_num_value_allowed_flag >is equal to one). The latter is for instance useful when >temporal scalability is implemented by making use of >sub-sequences. The sub-sequence feature of H.264/AVC enables >hierarchical temporal scalability, which allows disposal of >reference pictures from a coded bitstream without affecting >the decoding of the remaining pictures in the bitstream >(hereby intentionally introducing gaps in frame_num when >reference pictures are dropped). > >The latter is also discussed in the following papers: > >[1] Dong Tian et al.: Sub-Sequence Video Coding for Improved >Temporal Scalability; [2] Ville-Pekka Limnell et al.: Quality >Scalability in H.264-AVC Video Coding. > >From an encoder perspective, "non-existing" frames will >typically be created by using skipped slices in order to >achieve bit rate savings (or to keep the amount of pictures in >the coded bitstream the same after offline exploitation of >temporal scalability, something that significantly eases the >synchronization with an audio stream when varying coding >patterns are in use). > >Best regards, >Wesley De Neve >+> -----Original Message----- >+> From: mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org >+> [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of >+> Martin.Lange@sci-worx.com >+> Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2024 7:14 AM >+> To: mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org >+> Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] purpose of non-existing pictures >+> >+> Hello everyone, >+> >+> a thing which I was always wondering is the purpose of non-existing >+> pictures. What is a scenario in which an encoder would decide to >+> intentionally introduce gaps in frame_num, thus producing >+> non-existing pictures? The only effect I see is that they >make other >+> pictures fall out of the decoded picture buffer and that they also >+> get incorporated into reference lists, thus changing the reference >+> indices other pictures would have without their presence. Can this >+> lead to any gain in coding efficiency? Can anybody comment on what >+> was the intention of this tool? >+> >+> If this is a question which has already been posted in the past, I >+> would be happy if anyone could point me to some kind of FAQ of this >+> forum, if it exists (does it?). >+> >+> Best regards, >+> Martin Lange >+> >+> _______________________________________________ >+> NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. >Include [audio, >+> [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to >+> indicate the type of question you have. >+> >+> Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust >+> guidelines found at >+> http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Ant >+> itrust.php >+> > From sreenivas cranessoftware.com Thu Jun 1 16:44:32 2006 From: sreenivas cranessoftware.com (sreenivas) Date: Thu Jun 1 09:51:38 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] H.264 Decoder Implementation In-Reply-To: <20060531032634.58890.qmail@web31806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c68564$2d071320$8a01010a@cranessoftware.int> Hi , How can we play these test sequences? Please let me know the software used to play these sequences Regards Sreenivas -----Original Message----- From: mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of guhapriya ganapathy Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2024 8:57 AM To: Mayank Agarwal; mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: Re: [Mp4-tech] H.264 Decoder Implementation Hi Mayank, You can get the encoded bitstreams at http://ftp3.itu.ch/av-arch/jvt-site/draft_conformance/ Regards, Guha Priya. Mayank Agarwal wrote: Hi all, I want to implement the H.264 decoder in C language according to ITU-T H.264 standard. >From where i will get the encoded h.264 streams which can be used as an input to the decoder. Further are there any links which can really help in implementing the decoder in C language. Thanks and Regards, Mayank __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060601/0297b5f6/attachment.html From gilberto ensilica.com Thu Jun 1 16:18:54 2006 From: gilberto ensilica.com (Gilberto Rodriguez) Date: Fri Jun 2 07:16:09 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion In-Reply-To: <010901c67c33$65cda4b0$0200a8c0@persephone> Message-ID: <004b01c68586$50c77a80$03b0a8c0@MERCURY> Dear Wesley, Thanks a lot for your replay. I have now been able to play annex B byte stream is there a reason why it would not play RTP format? What would be the way to play the encoded h264 data in RTP format as a video stream? I thought that RTP format would be more suitable for UDP/TCP transmission. Thanks a lot, Gilberto _____ From: Wesley De Neve [mailto:Wesley.DeNeve@UGent.be] Sent: 20 May 2024 18:33 To: Gilberto Rodriguez; Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: Re: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion Dear Gilberto, MP4Box (http://gpac.sourceforge.net/) and MP4Creator (http://www.mpeg4ip.net/) both have the capability to place an H.264/AVC bitstream, having the Annex B byte stream format, in an MP4 file container. The Annex B byte stream format is the output of the reference software. If desired, QuickTime can subsequently be used to transfer the H.264/AVC track from the MP4 file to a MOV container. Best regards, Wesley De Neve ----- Original Message ----- From: Gilberto Rodriguez To: Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Sent: Friday, May 19, 2024 5:08 PM Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion Hello, I am looking for a tool/script that will encapsulate the NAL output of the H.264 JM reference model into a standard .mov or .mp4 format so that it can be decoded and played back with QuickTime 7. Does anyone know if such tool or script exists and in that case can they point me to it? Thanks in advance, Gilberto _____ _______________________________________________ NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060601/93ee056b/attachment-0001.html From gilberto ensilica.com Thu Jun 1 16:52:37 2006 From: gilberto ensilica.com (Gilberto Rodriguez) Date: Fri Jun 2 07:16:14 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion In-Reply-To: <11cb01c68589$683bc880$7301a8c0@persephone> Message-ID: <005b01c6858b$06bf5a70$03b0a8c0@MERCURY> Dear Wesley, Do you know of any streaming decoder which can decode H.264 UDP/RTP stream. Is Quicktime the only option? Thanks again, Gilberto _____ From: Wesley De Neve [mailto:wesley.deneve@elis.ugent.be] Sent: 01 June 2024 15:41 To: Gilberto Rodriguez; Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: Re: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion Dear Gilberto, If you want to send an H.264/AVC bitstream as an RTP stream over a network, then I would suggest to have a look at the MP4 file format and the use of hint tracks. Good starting points are QuickTime and the Darwin Streaming Server, as well as the MPEG4IP project (http://mpeg4ip.sourceforge.net/). Best regards, -Wesley ----- Original Message ----- From: Gilberto Rodriguez To: 'Wesley De Neve' ; Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2024 4:18 PM Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion Dear Wesley, Thanks a lot for your replay. I have now been able to play annex B byte stream is there a reason why it would not play RTP format? What would be the way to play the encoded h264 data in RTP format as a video stream? I thought that RTP format would be more suitable for UDP/TCP transmission. Thanks a lot, Gilberto _____ From: Wesley De Neve [mailto:Wesley.DeNeve@UGent.be] Sent: 20 May 2024 18:33 To: Gilberto Rodriguez; Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: Re: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion Dear Gilberto, MP4Box (http://gpac.sourceforge.net/) and MP4Creator (http://www.mpeg4ip.net/) both have the capability to place an H.264/AVC bitstream, having the Annex B byte stream format, in an MP4 file container. The Annex B byte stream format is the output of the reference software. If desired, QuickTime can subsequently be used to transfer the H.264/AVC track from the MP4 file to a MOV container. Best regards, Wesley De Neve ----- Original Message ----- From: Gilberto Rodriguez To: Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Sent: Friday, May 19, 2024 5:08 PM Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion Hello, I am looking for a tool/script that will encapsulate the NAL output of the H.264 JM reference model into a standard .mov or .mp4 format so that it can be decoded and played back with QuickTime 7. Does anyone know if such tool or script exists and in that case can they point me to it? Thanks in advance, Gilberto _____ _______________________________________________ NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060601/d1a2adfd/attachment-0001.html From mp4-tech-owner lists.mpegif.org Thu Jun 1 23:03:07 2006 From: mp4-tech-owner lists.mpegif.org (MPEGIF List Admins) Date: Fri Jun 2 07:16:18 2006 Subject: FW: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion Message-ID: <000501c685b6$66e69f50$060a14ac@corp.intertrust.com> Another forward. Wesley, please subscribe with your sending address. Thanks. _____ From: Wesley De Neve [mailto:wesley.deneve@elis.ugent.be] Sent: Thursday, 01 June 2024 17:37 To: Gilberto Rodriguez; Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: Re: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion Dear Gilberto, The open source player of the MPEG4IP project is another option in order to receive an H.264/AVC bitstream as a sequence of RTP packets via a network. This is probably just one of the many that are out there, as the RTP specification for H.264/AVC is a publicly available RFC (see http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3984.txt?number=3984). You also might have a look at the following website: http://www.isma.tv/conformance/tools.html. Best regards, -Wesley ----- Original Message ----- From: Gilberto Rodriguez To: 'Wesley De Neve' ; Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2024 4:52 PM Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion Dear Wesley, Do you know of any streaming decoder which can decode H.264 UDP/RTP stream. Is Quicktime the only option? Thanks again, Gilberto _____ From: Wesley De Neve [mailto:wesley.deneve@elis.ugent.be] Sent: 01 June 2024 15:41 To: Gilberto Rodriguez; Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: Re: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion Dear Gilberto, If you want to send an H.264/AVC bitstream as an RTP stream over a network, then I would suggest to have a look at the MP4 file format and the use of hint tracks. Good starting points are QuickTime and the Darwin Streaming Server, as well as the MPEG4IP project (http://mpeg4ip.sourceforge.net/). Best regards, -Wesley ----- Original Message ----- From: Gilberto Rodriguez To: 'Wesley De Neve' ; Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2024 4:18 PM Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion Dear Wesley, Thanks a lot for your replay. I have now been able to play annex B byte stream is there a reason why it would not play RTP format? What would be the way to play the encoded h264 data in RTP format as a video stream? I thought that RTP format would be more suitable for UDP/TCP transmission. Thanks a lot, Gilberto _____ From: Wesley De Neve [mailto:Wesley.DeNeve@UGent.be] Sent: 20 May 2024 18:33 To: Gilberto Rodriguez; Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: Re: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion Dear Gilberto, MP4Box (http://gpac.sourceforge.net/) and MP4Creator (http://www.mpeg4ip.net/) both have the capability to place an H.264/AVC bitstream, having the Annex B byte stream format, in an MP4 file container. The Annex B byte stream format is the output of the reference software. If desired, QuickTime can subsequently be used to transfer the H.264/AVC track from the MP4 file to a MOV container. Best regards, Wesley De Neve ----- Original Message ----- From: Gilberto Rodriguez To: Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Sent: Friday, May 19, 2024 5:08 PM Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion Hello, I am looking for a tool/script that will encapsulate the NAL output of the H.264 JM reference model into a standard .mov or .mp4 format so that it can be decoded and played back with QuickTime 7. Does anyone know if such tool or script exists and in that case can they point me to it? Thanks in advance, Gilberto _____ _______________________________________________ NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060601/5c5773e6/attachment-0001.html From mp4-tech-owner lists.mpegif.org Thu Jun 1 22:58:05 2006 From: mp4-tech-owner lists.mpegif.org (MPEGIF List Admins) Date: Fri Jun 2 07:16:22 2006 Subject: FW: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion Message-ID: <000001c685b5$b2d92d70$060a14ac@corp.intertrust.com> forwarding auto-discarded message from non-subscribed address. _____ From: Wesley De Neve [mailto:wesley.deneve@elis.ugent.be] Sent: Thursday, 01 June 2024 16:41 To: Gilberto Rodriguez; Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: Re: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion Dear Gilberto, If you want to send an H.264/AVC bitstream as an RTP stream over a network, then I would suggest to have a look at the MP4 file format and the use of hint tracks. Good starting points are QuickTime and the Darwin Streaming Server, as well as the MPEG4IP project (http://mpeg4ip.sourceforge.net/). Best regards, -Wesley ----- Original Message ----- From: Gilberto Rodriguez To: 'Wesley De Neve' ; Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2024 4:18 PM Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion Dear Wesley, Thanks a lot for your replay. I have now been able to play annex B byte stream is there a reason why it would not play RTP format? What would be the way to play the encoded h264 data in RTP format as a video stream? I thought that RTP format would be more suitable for UDP/TCP transmission. Thanks a lot, Gilberto _____ From: Wesley De Neve [mailto:Wesley.DeNeve@UGent.be] Sent: 20 May 2024 18:33 To: Gilberto Rodriguez; Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: Re: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion Dear Gilberto, MP4Box (http://gpac.sourceforge.net/) and MP4Creator (http://www.mpeg4ip.net/) both have the capability to place an H.264/AVC bitstream, having the Annex B byte stream format, in an MP4 file container. The Annex B byte stream format is the output of the reference software. If desired, QuickTime can subsequently be used to transfer the H.264/AVC track from the MP4 file to a MOV container. Best regards, Wesley De Neve ----- Original Message ----- From: Gilberto Rodriguez To: Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Sent: Friday, May 19, 2024 5:08 PM Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264]NAL to mov conversion Hello, I am looking for a tool/script that will encapsulate the NAL output of the H.264 JM reference model into a standard .mov or .mp4 format so that it can be decoded and played back with QuickTime 7. Does anyone know if such tool or script exists and in that case can they point me to it? Thanks in advance, Gilberto _____ _______________________________________________ NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060601/a8efdd11/attachment-0001.html From seblopez iuma.ulpgc.es Thu Jun 1 20:27:03 2006 From: seblopez iuma.ulpgc.es (Sebastian Lopez Suarez) Date: Fri Jun 2 07:16:26 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] Problems running the reference code on a Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi experts, I have downloaded the latest version of the reference code and compiled it succesfully on a Mac. For this purpose, I have followed the instructions shown in chapter 5 of the "Readme.txt" file. However, when I try to run the encoder module with the default configuration I always get the same message: "Bus error". Can anyone help me? Thanks in advance. From purnhage tnt.uni-hannover.de Fri Jun 2 01:54:23 2006 From: purnhage tnt.uni-hannover.de (Heiko Purnhagen) Date: Fri Jun 2 07:16:29 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [Audio] Delay in eAAC+ Decoding In-Reply-To: <20060601064650.38714.qmail@web34702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060601064650.38714.qmail@web34702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <447F701F.3080800@tnt.uni-hannover.de> Dattaguru B.N. wrote: > Dear Experts, > > Can anybody please let me know the reason for the > delay in case of eAAC+ decoding as compared to AAC. I > know there is some delay introduced by AAC+ as > compared to AAC (962 samples). But with eAAC+ the > delay is no where related with 962 samples. Can > anybody please help me in understanding the reason for > the delay. Both AAC+ and eAAC+ decoders (to use the 3GPP naming) should have exactly the same additional delay of 962 samples when compared to the AAC core decoder at fs/2. What delays do you observe? Best regards Heiko > > Thanks in advance > Best Regards, > Datta > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. > > Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php > From pankaj_bajpai_iet operamail.com Fri Jun 2 07:40:37 2006 From: pankaj_bajpai_iet operamail.com (pankaj bajpai) Date: Fri Jun 2 07:16:34 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Re: Mp4-tech Digest, Vol 35, Issue 2 Message-ID: <20060602054037.E9B06244F6@ws5-3.us4.outblaze.com> Hi sreenivas, You can decode these sequences using any decoder which will give you output in YUV format. If you want to play, then you can use Moonlight player. You can use trial version. It will be great if other can add the players name which are freely available. With regards Pankaj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: mp4-tech-request@lists.mpegif.org > To: mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org > Subject: Mp4-tech Digest, Vol 35, Issue 2 > Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2024 12:23:06 -0400 (EDT) > > > Send Mp4-tech mailing list submissions to > mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.mpegif.org/mailman/listinfo/mp4-tech > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > mp4-tech-request@lists.mpegif.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > mp4-tech-owner@lists.mpegif.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Mp4-tech digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RE: H.264 Decoder Implementation (sreenivas) > > From: sreenivas > To: 'guhapriya ganapathy' 'Mayank Agarwal' mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org > Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] H.264 Decoder Implementation > Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2024 15:44:32 +0530 > > > Hi , > How can we play these test sequences? Please let me know the software > used to play these sequences > Regards > Sreenivas > > -----Original Message----- > From: mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org > [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of guhapriya > ganapathy > Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2024 8:57 AM > To: Mayank Agarwal; mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org > Subject: Re: [Mp4-tech] H.264 Decoder Implementation > > Hi Mayank, > > You can get the encoded bitstreams at > http://ftp3.itu.ch/av-arch/jvt-site/draft_conformance/ > > Regards, > Guha Priya. > > > Mayank Agarwal wrote: > Hi all, > I want to implement the H.264 decoder in C language according to ITU-T > H.264 > standard. > > From where i will get the encoded h.264 streams which can be used as an > > input to the decoder. > Further are there any links which can really help in implementing the > decoder in C language. > Thanks and Regards, > Mayank > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, > [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to > indicate the type of question you have. > > Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines > found at > http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php > Pankaj Kumar Bajpai Mulitimedia Engineer India -- _______________________________________________ Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way: Download Opera 8 at http://www.opera.com Powered by Outblaze From purnhage tnt.uni-hannover.de Fri Jun 2 14:38:50 2006 From: purnhage tnt.uni-hannover.de (Heiko Purnhagen) Date: Fri Jun 2 08:04:08 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [Audio] Delay in eAAC+ Decoding In-Reply-To: <20060602034747.92784.qmail@web34701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <447F701F.3080800@tnt.uni-hannover.de> <20060602034747.92784.qmail@web34701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <36427.195.43.244.82.1149248330.squirrel@mailhost.tnt.uni-hannover.de> > Dear Heiko, > > Thanks. > > I could observe 2048 samples difference as compared to > AAC+ and > the difference between eAAC+ and AAC is (962 + 2048) > samples. This can be observed by removing the first > (2048 + 962) samples in both the channels of the > output of eAAC+. The additional delay of 1 frame (2048 samples) is due to the error resilience mechanisms that are included in 3GPP's eAAC+ decoder but are not within the scope of the MPEG-4 HE-AAC v1 and v2 profiles. Best regards Heiko > > Thanks in advance for further info. > Best regards, > Datta > > --- Heiko Purnhagen > wrote: > >> Dattaguru B.N. wrote: >> > Dear Experts, >> > >> > Can anybody please let me know the reason for the >> > delay in case of eAAC+ decoding as compared to >> AAC. I >> > know there is some delay introduced by AAC+ as >> > compared to AAC (962 samples). But with eAAC+ the >> > delay is no where related with 962 samples. Can >> > anybody please help me in understanding the reason >> for >> > the delay. >> >> Both AAC+ and eAAC+ decoders (to use the 3GPP >> naming) should have >> exactly the same additional delay of 962 samples >> when compared to the >> AAC core decoder at fs/2. What delays do you >> observe? >> >> Best regards >> >> Heiko >> >> >> > >> > Thanks in advance >> > Best Regards, >> > Datta >> > >> > __________________________________________________ >> > Do You Yahoo!? >> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam >> protection around >> > http://mail.yahoo.com >> > _______________________________________________ >> > NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your >> posts. Include [audio, [video], [systems], [general] >> or another apppropriate identifier to indicate the >> type of question you have. >> > >> > Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to >> the Antitrust guidelines found at >> > http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php >> > >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > From seblopez iuma.ulpgc.es Fri Jun 2 14:47:51 2006 From: seblopez iuma.ulpgc.es (Sebastian Lopez Suarez) Date: Fri Jun 2 16:16:07 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] Error running the JM code on a Mac Message-ID: Hi experts, I have downloaded the latest version of the reference code and compiled it succesfully on a Mac. For this purpose, I have followed the instructions shown in chapter 5 of the "Readme.txt" file. However, when I try to run the encoder module with the default configuration I always get the same message: "Bus error". Can anyone help me? Thanks in advance. From mp4-tech-owner lists.mpegif.org Fri Jun 2 19:28:39 2006 From: mp4-tech-owner lists.mpegif.org (MPEGIF List Admins) Date: Sat Jun 3 18:04:06 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] FW: Open source AVS video decoder reference software Message-ID: <005201c68661$9ba52940$060a14ac@corp.intertrust.com> While this message is not about MPEG(-4) technology, we're forwarding it for this once because it might still be of interest to some list members. As a rule, MPEGIF would like to keep the mp4-tech list focused on MPEG(-4) technologies, in line with MPEGIF's charter. Best, The admins. -----Original Message----- From: ?? [mailto:zhou@ht-tech.com] Sent: Tuesday, 30 May 2024 21:42 To: mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: Open source AVS video decoder reference software Hello list, I have posted the open source AVS reference video decoder on sourceforge.net. URL for it is http://sourceforge.net/projects/openavs/ The code is a fork from the original code that is released In March 2006 by another Chinese company. A GNU build system is added. It also comes with a Microsoft Visual Studio project from where you can build both the decoder library and a minimalist player on Windows. The code is also tested to work with Borland C++Builder. Two video only test bit streams are provided. I will post an open source player which plays both audio and video soon. Please note that you will need a processor of 3Ghz or better otherwise the video will lag. Regards, Zhou Li From abeezar.vasi patni.com Sat Jun 3 14:03:03 2006 From: abeezar.vasi patni.com (Abeezar Vasi) Date: Sat Jun 3 18:04:11 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] MPEG4 decoder code for BSAC + SBR and it's conformance test bit streams Message-ID: <009901c686df$f356aa50$1203a8c0@patni.com> Hello All, Does any one have or know from where could I obtain the MPEG4 decoder code for BSAC + SBR and it's conformance test bit streams. Any help regarding the above would be immensely appreciated. Thanking you, Abeezar Vasi. PS: You can reply at: abeezar.vasi@patni.com. http://www.patni.com World-Wide Partnerships. World-Class Solutions. _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail message may contain proprietary, confidential or legally privileged information for the sole use of the person or entity to whom this message was originally addressed. Any review, e-transmission dissemination or other use of or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error kindly delete this e-mail from your records. If it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without proper authority, please notify us immediately at netadmin@patni.com and delete this mail. _____________________________________________________________________ From eechyang gmail.com Sat Jun 3 18:17:40 2006 From: eechyang gmail.com (Cheng Yang) Date: Sat Jun 3 18:04:15 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Is there any way to split one slices into two? Message-ID: <2e282fb70606030217k3cad85dexf5051035052493cc@mail.gmail.com> Dear experts: I am wondering whether there is an simple method to split one slices into two or more. For example, if a slice contains 10 MBs, is it possible to split the slices easily into two slices and each slice contains 5 MBs? Any comment will be helpful. Thanks in advance! -- Best regards! Cheng Yang E.E. Department Fudan University Shanghai, China -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060603/fee256d7/attachment.html From WJ_Liu mtk.com.tw Sun Jun 4 18:46:08 2006 From: WJ_Liu mtk.com.tw (WJ_Liu@mtk.com.tw) Date: Mon Jun 5 09:46:06 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] MPEG-4 and H.264 over RTP Message-ID: Dear experts, Would you know any streaming server that can produce RTP packets with MPEG-4 and H.264 bitstream? I am looking for such a server that conforms to RFC3016, RFC3640, and RFC3984 to test my decoder. By the way, RFC3016 and RFC3640 don't define any information like MediaBox that includes metadata for presentation and searching. Does it mean that the decoder side only can rely on the timestamp in RTP packets for presentation and searching? RFC3016 : RTP Payload format for MPEG-4 Audio/Visual Streams RFC3984 : RTP Payload format for H.264 Video RFC3640 : RTP Payload format for transport of MPEG4-Elementary Stream Jerry ************* Email Confidentiality Notice ******************** The information contained in this e-mail message (including any attachments) may be confidential, proprietary, privileged, or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable laws. It is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s). Any use, dissemination, distribution, printing, retaining or copying of this e-mail (including its attachments) by unintended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, or believe that you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately (by replying to this e-mail), delete any and all copies of this e-mail (including any attachments) from your system, and do not disclose the content of this e-mail to any other person. Thank you! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060604/32d8791d/attachment.html From WJ_Liu mtk.com.tw Wed Jun 7 13:47:33 2006 From: WJ_Liu mtk.com.tw (WJ_Liu@mtk.com.tw) Date: Wed Jun 7 10:04:12 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] nal_ref_idc Message-ID: Dear experts, I find in the standard that the size of nal_ref_idc is u(2), which means two bits. However, there seems only the information in the standard about whether nal_ref_idc equals to zero or not. So, what is the purpose for two bits? Do I miss some information? Thanks. Jerry ************* Email Confidentiality Notice ******************** The information contained in this e-mail message (including any attachments) may be confidential, proprietary, privileged, or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable laws. It is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s). Any use, dissemination, distribution, printing, retaining or copying of this e-mail (including its attachments) by unintended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, or believe that you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately (by replying to this e-mail), delete any and all copies of this e-mail (including any attachments) from your system, and do not disclose the content of this e-mail to any other person. Thank you! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060607/471c84a7/attachment.html From sandipkrtech yahoo.com Thu Jun 8 01:46:53 2006 From: sandipkrtech yahoo.com (Sandip Ray) Date: Thu Jun 8 08:46:11 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [audio][aac] building AAC source code Message-ID: <20060608074653.68965.qmail@web55310.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I have downloaded AAC reference source code from http://standards.iso.org/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/ISO_IEC_14496-5_2001_Amd_6_Reference_Software/ I installed cygwin in my PC(Pentium, OS:Windows). I went to folder audio\natural and modified gmake to make in file make-all. I have not set any environment variable. Then I run the script ./make-all in bash. It is showing lot of errors while building. I want to generate a .exe file. Please let me know what is the correct way to build the code without errors. Thanks and Regards, Sandip __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060608/4e9a1556/attachment.html From k_c_mani yahoo.com Thu Jun 8 10:08:00 2006 From: k_c_mani yahoo.com (kc manikandan) Date: Fri Jun 9 10:04:26 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [MP4tech][Mpeg 4 Video] Parsing Mpeg 4 headers from a media stream Message-ID: <20060608160800.89820.qmail@web50710.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, I am working in Mpeg4 parsing. I am looking for VOS, VO and VOL headers in the bit stream I received from a mobile phone ( from a video session). I did not find any of the headers in this elementary stream (multiplexed audio and video) except for the VOP header. I thought that if it is an mpeg4 session the video stream will be having all the above mentioned headers???. How can i know what type of a stream it is??? I am new to this field and it would be helpful if someone can give me an idea about this. Regards Mani. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060608/8edca719/attachment.html From zia sunplus.com Fri Jun 9 14:38:24 2006 From: zia sunplus.com (Shih-Huang Chang) Date: Fri Jun 9 10:04:50 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] Re: nal_ref_idc Message-ID: Yes, it only needs one bit if nal_ref_idc is regarded as referenced or not. However, you could find in JM code that nal_ref_idcs of SPS, PPS and IDR are set as 3, higher priority given. That means two bits of nal_ref_idc could give us more flexibility to deal with all kinds of NAL units. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060609/6984025a/attachment.html From janzx 163.com Sun Jun 11 01:04:02 2006 From: janzx 163.com (ZhouXiao) Date: Sun Jun 11 18:46:11 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] question about "complentary filed pair" a nd "field_pic_flag" Message-ID: <448AED72.0000FB.30962@bj163app24.163.com> Hi all, I am still confused about the concept of "complentary filed pair". (1) Why such a concept exists? Its defination and application seem very amphibolous, Why we have to introduce such a concept? that is: in which condition will a complementary ref field pair or a complementary non-ref field pair occur, and if this condition is true, what special operation will the decoder take? (2) Is it possible that the bottom field of one frame and the top field of the following frame immediately in decoding order constitute a complementary ref field pair or a complementary non-ref field pair? Another question is about field_pic_flag. As you know, the field_pic_flag is just defined in the slice header layer, now supposing frame_mbs_only_flag == 0 && mb_adaptive_frame_field_flag == 0 ( i.e.: using PAFF), is it possible that one slice in a frame adopts field coding mode, while the other slice in the same frame adpotes frame coding mode? Maybe it sounds very stupid. and the possible answer is NO. But if that, it seems inappropriate that the field_pic_flag syntax element is put in the slice layer. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060611/b07859f5/attachment.html From herbert.thoma iis.fraunhofer.de Sun Jun 11 20:57:55 2006 From: herbert.thoma iis.fraunhofer.de (Herbert Thoma) Date: Sun Jun 11 18:46:19 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [MP4tech][Mpeg 4 Video] Parsing Mpeg 4 headers from a media stream In-Reply-To: <20060608160800.89820.qmail@web50710.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060608160800.89820.qmail@web50710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <448C59A3.2050605@iis.fraunhofer.de> kc manikandan wrote: > Hello, > > I am working in Mpeg4 parsing. I am looking for VOS, VO and VOL headers > in the bit stream I received from a mobile phone ( from a video > session). I did not find any of the headers in this elementary stream > (multiplexed audio and video) except for the VOP header. > > I thought that if it is an mpeg4 session the video stream will be > having all the above mentioned headers???. How can i know what type of a > stream it is??? I am new to this field and it would be helpful if > someone can give me an idea about this. Most likely the VS, VO and VOL headers are conveyed during session setup, e.g. via RTSP. Only the Access Units (VOPs) are then conveyed in the stream, e.g. via RTP. Herbert. > Regards > Mani. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. > > Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php -- Herbert Thoma Head of Video Group Multimedia Realtime Systems Department Fraunhofer IIS Am Wolfsmantel 33, 91058 Erlangen, Germany Phone: +49-9131-776-323 Fax: +49-9131-776-399 email: tma@iis.fhg.de www: http://www.iis.fhg.de/ From garysull windows.microsoft.com Sun Jun 11 18:27:20 2006 From: garysull windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Mon Jun 12 09:04:17 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] question about "complentary filed pair" a nd "field_pic_flag" References: <448AED72.0000FB.30962@bj163app24.163.com> Message-ID: <03CB47D9C3F8074498E4653F814D6E8F97711D@WIN-MSG-20.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Zhou Xiao, Regarding question 1, I kind of like the word amphibolous. It seems like a combination of amphibian and bulbous, so I envision a rather lumpy and bloated frog. That may be an interesting analogy for field handling in the standard - many people do not understand this part the first time they read it. The concept of field pairing exists in the standard primarily as a way to deal with memory structuring and memory referencing in a decoder. When we conceptually pair two fields together in the decoding process, the pair of fields can be referenced for the decoding of a subsequent frame. Regarding question 2, I don't know exactly what you mean by one field being "of one frame" and another field being "of the following frame". It seems to me that the definition of a field being "of a frame" would correspond to the field having a particular value of frame_num. But fields are not considered complementary if they have different values of frame_num. So perhaps the answer to your question is No. But I am not sure that I am confident that I understand what you are asking. Regarding the third (not numbered) question, field_pic_flag must be the same in all slices of a picture. There are several such things in the slice header that must be the same in all slices of the picture. If you think the slice header is not where we should have put that flag, where do you think would have been better? This is part of the design of the "parameter set" concept of the standard. The idea is that the things that can change frequently from picture to picture are placed in the slice header for reasons of robustness to data losses. If the video is being sent on a channel that does not have many data losses, then the encoder can choose to send just one slice for the entire picture -- so the idea of the slice header resulting in a waste of bits is not really relevant with such use. Overall, I think we did a very good job of figuring out where to put the various syntax elements. And I think the notions of the sequence and picture parameter sets are very good ones. Overall, I would say that the field and frame concepts in the standard may take a significant amount of studying before you fully understand them. Don't expect to understand everying just by reading some parts of the standard just once and guessing at what is meant. The text of the standard (if you get the latest version) is very clear about most things, but people often feel that they must read it over and over before they really understand it completely. Note that most overview presentations about the standard (e.g., books and articles) do not really cover such details as. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan ________________________________ From: mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org on behalf of ZhouXiao Sent: Sat 6/10/2023 9:04 AM To: mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech] question about "complentary filed pair" a nd "field_pic_flag" Hi all, I am still confused about the concept of "complentary filed pair". (1) Why such a concept exists? Its defination and application seem very amphibolous, Why we have to introduce such a concept? that is: in which condition will a complementary ref field pair or a complementary non-ref field pair occur, and if this condition is true, what special operation will the decoder take? (2) Is it possible that the bottom field of one frame and the top field of the following frame immediately in decoding order constitute a complementary ref field pair or a complementary non-ref field pair? Another question is about field_pic_flag. As you know, the field_pic_flag is just defined in the slice header layer, now supposing frame_mbs_only_flag == 0 && mb_adaptive_frame_field_flag == 0 ( i.e.: using PAFF), is it possible that one slice in a frame adopts field coding mode, while the other slice in the same frame adpotes frame coding mode? Maybe it sounds very stupid. and the possible answer is NO. But if that, it seems inappropriate that the field_pic_flag syntax element is put in the slice layer. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? "?" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?,? ? Ajax ? ?,126 "D ? ?"? ? ? ? ? ! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060611/25d1074e/attachment.html From EricChuang via.com.tw Mon Jun 12 12:09:26 2006 From: EricChuang via.com.tw (EricChuang@via.com.tw) Date: Mon Jun 12 09:04:30 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] One question regarding P_8x8ref0 Message-ID: <6A7AB4426712514F9E2AB28C407285FA10A8A07C@EXCHTP02.taipei.via.com.tw> Dear experts, In the standard, it reads that P_8x8ref0 has the same meaning as P_8x8, except that all refIdx of P_8x8ref0 blocks are inferred as 0. When CABAC is used, the standard describes that P_8x8ref0 macroblock type is not allowd. Does it mean P_8x8ref0 can only be used when CABAC is not used, or P_8x8ref0 has been deprecated ? And is there any reason that P_8x8ref0 cannot be used when CABAC is used ? Appreciate for your comment in advance, Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060612/a9f8b025/attachment.html From garysull windows.microsoft.com Mon Jun 12 18:53:02 2006 From: garysull windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Tue Jun 13 03:32:11 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] One question regarding P_8x8ref0 In-Reply-To: <6A7AB4426712514F9E2AB28C407285FA10A8A07C@EXCHTP02.taipei.via.com.tw> Message-ID: <03CB47D9C3F8074498E4653F814D6E8FFB5C73@WIN-MSG-20.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> The P_8x8ref0 prediction mode is just a short-hand way of expressing a combined selection of P_8x8 and ref_idx_l0 = 0 together using a more efficient entropy code. When using CAVLC entropy coding, this turned out to be a more efficient way to signal this joint selection than sending ref_idx_l0 separately for this case. However, CABAC is a more sophisticated entropy coder and so it doesn't need this short-hand trick. Therefore we don't allow mb_type equal to 4 in P slices with CABAC. This saves us the need to devote a bin string to represent this case in Table 9-28. If we didn't prohibit that case in CABAC operation, we would need a bin string for it. It can still be used with CAVLC. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan ________________________________ From: mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of EricChuang@via.com.tw Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2023 8:09 PM To: mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] One question regarding P_8x8ref0 Dear experts, In the standard, it reads that P_8x8ref0 has the same meaning as P_8x8, except that all refIdx of P_8x8ref0 blocks are inferred as 0. When CABAC is used, the standard describes that P_8x8ref0 macroblock type is not allowd. Does it mean P_8x8ref0 can only be used when CABAC is not used, or P_8x8ref0 has been deprecated ? And is there any reason that P_8x8ref0 cannot be used when CABAC is used ? Appreciate for your comment in advance, Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060612/ef5b5cc7/attachment.html From mayank_2001 hotmail.com Tue Jun 13 15:06:49 2006 From: mayank_2001 hotmail.com (Mayank Agarwal) Date: Tue Jun 13 09:34:15 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Interlacing Message-ID: Hi all, I want to know how to develop an interlacing algorithm. Thanks and Regards, Mayank _________________________________________________________________ Spice up your IM conversations. New, colorful and animated emoticons. Get chatting! http://server1.msn.co.in/SP05/emoticons/ From gilberto ensilica.com Tue Jun 13 16:31:52 2006 From: gilberto ensilica.com (Gilberto Rodriguez) Date: Tue Jun 13 11:46:13 2006 Subject: [MP4-tech][h264] RTP streaming Message-ID: <008101c68ef6$1da8ab50$03b0a8c0@MERCURY> Hello, I'm looking into the process of streaming out an H.264 bitstream in RTP packet format, as generated by the JM ref. model, and I am using the RFC3550 and RFC3984 specs. as a reference. I have noticed that the JM model prepends the following to each RTP packet: packlen [32 bits] : the RTP packet length intime [32 bits] : set to the magic number 0xFFFFFFFF I haven't been able to see any reference to the above fields in any of the relevant specs. Does anyone know where these fields come from, whether they are part of the RTP protocol and if they break any of the available streaming servers out there (Darwin, VLS, ...) thanks in advance, ====================================== Gilberto Rodriguez - IC Designer EnSilica Limited 2nd floor Cyberhouse Molly Millar's Lane Mobile: +44(0)7736 619 511 / +34 619 529 825 Wokingham Tel: +44(0)1189 798 159 Berkshire Fax: +44(0)1189 798 160 RG41 2PX www.ensilica.com ====================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060613/2abaaf64/attachment.html From d_ravu yahoo.com Thu Jun 15 01:01:39 2006 From: d_ravu yahoo.com (RTD) Date: Thu Jun 15 08:40:15 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] H.264 Over RTP/RTSP Message-ID: <20060615070139.73318.qmail@web33104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Everybody, I'm looking for the streaming of an H.264 bitstream through RTSP/RTP Protocols. I need to know what information should I need to convey through SDP so that the decoder can play the RTP Packets containing H.264 Data. Can someone focus on how to construct the rtp packets for H.264 stream. Awaiting UR Responses........... Regards, Ravindra Dolas __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From garima.singh tivr.co.in Thu Jun 15 06:47:06 2006 From: garima.singh tivr.co.in (Garima Singh) Date: Fri Jun 16 10:04:23 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] MPEG-4 BIFS Reference Source Code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060615124706.66002.qmail@web213.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear All, Can any one please tell me where can I get the reference source code for MPEG-4 BIFS decoding? Thanks and Regards, Garima Regards, Garima Singh TIVR Communications - Delivering Efficient Solutions for Mobile Multimedia www.tivr.co.in -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060615/f520ec95/attachment.html From waqar.zia gmail.com Thu Jun 15 19:44:08 2006 From: waqar.zia gmail.com (Waqar Zia) Date: Fri Jun 16 10:04:41 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Re: H.264 Over RTP/RTSP (RTD) Message-ID: Hello, The information need from the encoder for RTP packetization is: -Time stamp extracted from your video input data converted to 90kHz clock, -You might want to initialize the marker bit M if you use multiple slices per picture, set it for the last slice of a picture. All other information can be fabricated, e.g. "sequence number" can be started from an arbitrary starting index and incremented by 1 always. Best regards, Waqar Zia, Candidate PhD, BenQ Mobile GmbH, Munich, Germany. Hi Everybody, I'm looking for the streaming of an H.264 bitstream through RTSP/RTP Protocols. I need to know what information should I need to convey through SDP so that the decoder can play the RTP Packets containing H.264 Data. Can someone focus on how to construct the rtp packets for H.264 stream. Awaiting UR Responses........... Regards, Ravindra Dolas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060615/7cdbc266/attachment.html From waqar.zia gmail.com Thu Jun 15 20:40:09 2006 From: waqar.zia gmail.com (Waqar Zia) Date: Fri Jun 16 10:04:56 2006 Subject: [MP4-tech][h264] Re: RTP streaming Message-ID: Hello, If you are writing RTP packets to a file, it is handy to save the packet data size along with, as some "axillary information," as there is no explicit size information available otherwise. This is not related to RFC 3550. Best regards, Waqar Zia. =================================================== Hello, I'm looking into the process of streaming out an H.264 bitstream in RTP packet format, as generated by the JM ref. model, and I am using the RFC3550 and RFC3984 specs. as a reference. I have noticed that the JM model prepends the following to each RTP packet: packlen [32 bits] : the RTP packet length intime [32 bits] : set to the magic number 0xFFFFFFFF I haven't been able to see any reference to the above fields in any of the relevant specs. Does anyone know where these fields come from, whether they are part of the RTP protocol and if they break any of the available streaming servers out there (Darwin, VLS, ...) thanks in advance, ====================================== Gilberto Rodriguez - IC Designer EnSilica Limited 2nd floor Cyberhouse Molly Millar's Lane Mobile: +44(0)7736 619 511 / +34 619 529 825 Wokingham Tel: +44(0)1189 798 159 Berkshire Fax: +44(0)1189 798 160 RG41 2PX www.ensilica.com ====================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060615/a3d7d7ac/attachment.html From mp4-tech-owner lists.mpegif.org Fri Jun 16 21:07:03 2006 From: mp4-tech-owner lists.mpegif.org (MPEGIF List Admins) Date: Sat Jun 17 15:16:11 2006 Subject: FW: [Mp4-tech] H.264 Over RTP/RTSP Message-ID: <001101c6916f$adde4420$0301a8c0@corp.intertrust.com> Forward of email from non-subscribed address. -----Original Message----- From: Vittal, Natarajan [mailto:natarajanv@nds.com] Sent: Thursday, 15 June 2023 15:07 To: Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] H.264 Over RTP/RTSP Ravindra, For first query, you need to set the media format & the transport protocol (please refer to RFC 2327). For your second query, you can refer to the following RFC's: RFC 3016, 3640 & 3984. Rgds, Natrajan -----Original Message----- From: mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of RTD Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2023 12:32 PM To: Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech] H.264 Over RTP/RTSP Hi Everybody, I'm looking for the streaming of an H.264 bitstream through RTSP/RTP Protocols. I need to know what information should I need to convey through SDP so that the decoder can play the RTP Packets containing H.264 Data. Can someone focus on how to construct the rtp packets for H.264 stream. Awaiting UR Responses........... Regards, Ravindra Dolas __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php **************************************************************************** ******* Information contained in this email message is confidential and may be privileged, and is intended only for use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the postmaster@nds.com and destroy the original message. **************************************************************************** ******* From mp4-tech-owner lists.mpegif.org Fri Jun 16 21:07:03 2006 From: mp4-tech-owner lists.mpegif.org (MPEGIF List Admins) Date: Sun Jun 18 11:46:10 2006 Subject: FW: [Mp4-tech] H.264 Over RTP/RTSP Message-ID: <001001c6916f$ad813000$0301a8c0@corp.intertrust.com> Forward of email from non-subscribed address. (We get huge loads of spam sent to this list, and you don't see any of it, which does requires an effort. Please help us by only sending email from a subscribed address) -----Original Message----- From: Jalan, Manish [mailto:Manish.Jalan@patni.com] Sent: Thursday, 15 June 2023 16:43 To: Khandelwal, Abhishek; Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] H.264 Over RTP/RTSP Hello Ravindra, H.264 will have to be treated as dynamic payload since there is no payload type number associated with it (like H.263 has the payload type number as 34). For exact details you'll have to refer, RFC 2327(SDP: Session Description Protocol), RFC 3266 (Support for IPv6 in Session Description Protocol (SDP)), RFC 3550 (RTP: A Transport Protocol for Real-Time Applications), RFC 3551 (RTP Profile for Audio and Video Conferences with Minimal Control) For constructing the RTP packets for the H.264 bitstream, refer the RFC 3984 (RTP Payload Format for H.264 Video) Hope this helps. Regards, -Manish S. Jalan ________________________________ From: Abhishek Khandelwal [mailto:abhishek.khandelwal@patni.com] Sent: Thu 6/15/2006 6:34 PM To: Jalan, Manish; Subject: FW: [Mp4-tech] H.264 Over RTP/RTSP Can we reply to this query........... -----Original Message----- From: mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of RTD Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2023 12:32 PM To: Mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech] H.264 Over RTP/RTSP Hi Everybody, I'm looking for the streaming of an H.264 bitstream through RTSP/RTP Protocols. I need to know what information should I need to convey through SDP so that the decoder can play the RTP Packets containing H.264 Data. Can someone focus on how to construct the rtp packets for H.264 stream. Awaiting UR Responses........... Regards, Ravindra Dolas __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php From yzheng_jd yahoo.com.cn Mon Jun 19 10:21:09 2006 From: yzheng_jd yahoo.com.cn (Yan Zheng) Date: Mon Jun 19 09:28:13 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] about H.264 encoder/decoder configuration files Message-ID: <20060619012109.67985.qmail@web15104.mail.cnb.yahoo.com> Is there anyone who can send the specification of the parameters setting of H.264 encoder/decoder configuration files(JM81)? or a web link is also helpful. Thanks very much. Yan Zheng --------------------------------- �Ż��������-3.5G������20M���� -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060619/0ba9e0f5/attachment.html From abeezar.vasi patni.com Mon Jun 19 13:13:39 2006 From: abeezar.vasi patni.com (Abeezar Vasi) Date: Mon Jun 19 09:28:21 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] MPEG4 - BSAC + SBR conformance test bit streams Message-ID: <001101c6936b$b3b69930$1203a8c0@patni.com> Hello All, Looking for the MPEG4 conformance test bit streams for BSAC + SBR. Any help regarding the above will be great. Thanking you in advance. Abeezar Vasi. http://www.patni.com World-Wide Partnerships. World-Class Solutions. _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail message may contain proprietary, confidential or legally privileged information for the sole use of the person or entity to whom this message was originally addressed. Any review, e-transmission dissemination or other use of or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error kindly delete this e-mail from your records. If it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without proper authority, please notify us immediately at netadmin@patni.com and delete this mail. _____________________________________________________________________ From nso01r ecs.soton.ac.uk Mon Jun 19 16:46:58 2006 From: nso01r ecs.soton.ac.uk (Noor Othman) Date: Mon Jun 19 14:22:14 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] AUDIO: TwinVQ and AAC MPEG-4 Message-ID: <200606191546.59018.nso01r@ecs.soton.ac.uk> Hi, Can anybody direct me any articles or books or references regarding the applications of the above mentioned codecs? And I need a specific info on the existing applications using those codecs for example the time delay if it's accaptable for some delays. Thanks. Noor From zhang_lsv yahoo.com Mon Jun 19 12:22:19 2006 From: zhang_lsv yahoo.com (Xi-ao) Date: Tue Jun 20 11:40:13 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] MBAFF Flag in JM configuration file In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060619182219.90601.qmail@web54108.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Experts, I wonder if anyone could help me to confirm the following setting in encoder.cfg: To enable the MBAFF (But not PicAFF) in the JM encoder, one has to set "PicInterlace=0" and "MBInterlace=2". Thanks in advance --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus there?s much more to come. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060619/633327c1/attachment.html From EricChuang via.com.tw Tue Jun 20 22:27:39 2006 From: EricChuang via.com.tw (EricChuang@via.com.tw) Date: Tue Jun 20 11:40:25 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Questions about constraint flags Message-ID: <6A7AB4426712514F9E2AB28C407285FA372DC9@EXCHTP02.taipei.via.com.tw> Dear experts, I have a question about the constraint_set0_flag, constraint_set1_flag, ... constraint_set3_flag. I have no idea why this kind of flag is used for. The same restriction can be achieved by changing the profile_idc. It seems that these flags can be used to indicate it conforms to baseline, main, or exteded profile, etc.. even if the profile_idc indicates it's high profile. Why not just changing the profile_idc, and created these 4 constraint flags ? Thanks, Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060620/628ef5b1/attachment.html From garysull windows.microsoft.com Tue Jun 20 11:16:24 2006 From: garysull windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jun 21 09:34:19 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Questions about constraint flags In-Reply-To: <6A7AB4426712514F9E2AB28C407285FA372DC9@EXCHTP02.taipei.via.com.tw> Message-ID: <03CB47D9C3F8074498E4653F814D6E8F010DC508@WIN-MSG-20.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Eric et al, 1) Be careful about conceptually lumping all of those flags together. constraint_set3_flag is quite different than the others. 2) You seem to have made a mistake regarding High profile. When profile_idc indicates High profile (profile_idc equal to 100), all four of those flags must be equal to 0. 3) For constraint_set0_flag, constraint_set1_flag, and constraint_set2_flag, these enable decoders of multiple profiles to be able to decode the same bitstream. If these flags did not exist and you changed the value of profile_idc in a bitstream, then decoders of the original profile would not decode the bitstream, even though they could as far as the set of features used in the bitstream are concerned. It is obviously desirable to enable as many decoders as possible to decode a bitstream. 4) Furthermore, in the absence of these flags it could be very difficult to determine whether a bitstream obeys all the constraints that would allow profile_idc to be changed. This is particularly true regarding some constraints that are not obvious from examining headers, such as the MaxSubMbRectSize constraint that applies only in the Baseline and Extended profiles. 5) For the Baseline, Main, and Extended profiles, constraint_set3_flag was used to insert a level 1b in between levels 1 and 1.1 in a backward-compatible fashion. This could be difficult to do if we had not reserved some syntax for such uses. 6) Note that some uses of these flags remain reserved for future uses yet to be determined. The flags can be very useful for future extensibility. 7) Note that reserved_zero_4bits contains four more bits that can be defined as flags or other such syntax elements for future extensibility purposes. 8) For implementation purposes, it is not really necessary to have a good answer to questions about why things in a standard are the way they are. It is more important to understand "what" the standard says than "why" it says what it says. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan ________________________________ From: mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of EricChuang@via.com.tw Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2023 6:28 AM To: mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech] Questions about constraint flags Dear experts, I have a question about the constraint_set0_flag, constraint_set1_flag, ... constraint_set3_flag. I have no idea why this kind of flag is used for. The same restriction can be achieved by changing the profile_idc. It seems that these flags can be used to indicate it conforms to baseline, main, or exteded profile, etc.. even if the profile_idc indicates it's high profile. Why not just changing the profile_idc, and created these 4 constraint flags ? Thanks, Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060620/4652d1d7/attachment-0001.html From EricChuang via.com.tw Wed Jun 21 10:16:00 2006 From: EricChuang via.com.tw (EricChuang@via.com.tw) Date: Wed Jun 21 09:34:32 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Questions about constraint flags Message-ID: <6A7AB4426712514F9E2AB28C407285FA10A8A08E@EXCHTP02.taipei.via.com.tw> Hi Gary, Regarding 2), I did not read any statements explicitly to have the requirement that these flags set to 0 in Hgih profile. It seems to me that If a High profile bitstream set the constraint_set2_flag to 1, some decoder conforming to Main profile cannot decode it correctly, because there are more syntax element in SPS that may not be understood by the Main profile decoder. Is it the reason that these flags set to 0 in high profile ? About 4) I cannot understand why it's difficult to change profile_idc without constraint flags existence. Since the profile_idc and constraint flag are set by encoder, if an encoder could be able to set the constraint flag, it can change the profile accordingly if it wants. I really appreciate your comment on this, I got lot from it. I'm not just for implementation purposes, I wish to know more, so I'd like to know the reason behind it. Thanks very much, Eric. -----Original Message----- From: Gary Sullivan [mailto:garysull@windows.microsoft.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2023 10:16 AM To: Eric Chuang; mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] Questions about constraint flags Eric et al, 1) Be careful about conceptually lumping all of those flags together. constraint_set3_flag is quite different than the others. 2) You seem to have made a mistake regarding High profile. When profile_idc indicates High profile (profile_idc equal to 100), all four of those flags must be equal to 0. 3) For constraint_set0_flag, constraint_set1_flag, and constraint_set2_flag, these enable decoders of multiple profiles to be able to decode the same bitstream. If these flags did not exist and you changed the value of profile_idc in a bitstream, then decoders of the original profile would not decode the bitstream, even though they could as far as the set of features used in the bitstream are concerned. It is obviously desirable to enable as many decoders as possible to decode a bitstream. 4) Furthermore, in the absence of these flags it could be very difficult to determine whether a bitstream obeys all the constraints that would allow profile_idc to be changed. This is particularly true regarding some constraints that are not obvious from examining headers, such as the MaxSubMbRectSize constraint that applies only in the Baseline and Extended profiles. 5) For the Baseline, Main, and Extended profiles, constraint_set3_flag was used to insert a level 1b in between levels 1 and 1.1 in a backward-compatible fashion. This could be difficult to do if we had not reserved some syntax for such uses. 6) Note that some uses of these flags remain reserved for future uses yet to be determined. The flags can be very useful for future extensibility. 7) Note that reserved_zero_4bits contains four more bits that can be defined as flags or other such syntax elements for future extensibility purposes. 8) For implementation purposes, it is not really necessary to have a good answer to questions about why things in a standard are the way they are. It is more important to understand "what" the standard says than "why" it says what it says. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan ________________________________ From: mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of EricChuang@via.com.tw Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2023 6:28 AM To: mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech] Questions about constraint flags Dear experts, I have a question about the constraint_set0_flag, constraint_set1_flag, ... constraint_set3_flag. I have no idea why this kind of flag is used for. The same restriction can be achieved by changing the profile_idc. It seems that these flags can be used to indicate it conforms to baseline, main, or exteded profile, etc.. even if the profile_idc indicates it's high profile. Why not just changing the profile_idc, and created these 4 constraint flags ? Thanks, Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060621/3b53ee7f/attachment-0001.html From garysull windows.microsoft.com Tue Jun 20 19:40:47 2006 From: garysull windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed Jun 21 09:34:45 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Questions about constraint flags In-Reply-To: <6A7AB4426712514F9E2AB28C407285FA10A8A08E@EXCHTP02.taipei.via.com.tw> Message-ID: <03CB47D9C3F8074498E4653F814D6E8F01184482@WIN-MSG-20.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Regarding 2 - Please notice that: a) The text says that "constraint_set2_flag indicates that the bitstream obeys all constraints specified in subclause A.2.3". b) One of the constraints in subclause A.2.3 is that "The syntax elements chroma_format_idc, bit_depth_luma_minus8, bit_depth_chroma_minus8, qpprime_y_zero_transform_bypass_flag, and seq_scaling_matrix_present_flag shall not be present in sequence parameter sets." c) Furthermore, notice from the syntax tables in subclause 7.3.2.1 show that those syntax elements MUST be present if profile_idc indicates the High profile. It is therefore not possible to fulfill all constraints in A.2.3 when profile_idc indicates the High profile, and therefore constraint_set2_flag must be equal to 0 in that case. This is a matter in the process of further clarification (see the most recent published ITU-T version vs. the most recent published MPEG version, for example). Regarding 4 - My remarks assumed you were talking about taking an existing bitstream (in general, produced by someone else's encoder) and changing the value of profile_idc in it. It wasn't about the case when an encoder is producing a bitstream that will not be repurposed later. If you are only concerned about cases where you are producing the bitstream yourself, this aspect may not apply (although my remark #3 would still apply). Best Regards, -Gary Sullivan ________________________________ From: EricChuang@via.com.tw [mailto:EricChuang@via.com.tw] Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2023 6:16 PM To: Gary Sullivan; mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] Questions about constraint flags Hi Gary, Regarding 2), I did not read any statements explicitly to have the requirement that these flags set to 0 in Hgih profile. It seems to me that If a High profile bitstream set the constraint_set2_flag to 1, some decoder conforming to Main profile cannot decode it correctly, because there are more syntax element in SPS that may not be understood by the Main profile decoder. Is it the reason that these flags set to 0 in high profile ? About 4) I cannot understand why it's difficult to change profile_idc without constraint flags existence. Since the profile_idc and constraint flag are set by encoder, if an encoder could be able to set the constraint flag, it can change the profile accordingly if it wants. I really appreciate your comment on this, I got lot from it. I'm not just for implementation purposes, I wish to know more, so I'd like to know the reason behind it. Thanks very much, Eric. -----Original Message----- From: Gary Sullivan [mailto:garysull@windows.microsoft.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2023 10:16 AM To: Eric Chuang; mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] Questions about constraint flags Eric et al, 1) Be careful about conceptually lumping all of those flags together. constraint_set3_flag is quite different than the others. 2) You seem to have made a mistake regarding High profile. When profile_idc indicates High profile (profile_idc equal to 100), all four of those flags must be equal to 0. 3) For constraint_set0_flag, constraint_set1_flag, and constraint_set2_flag, these enable decoders of multiple profiles to be able to decode the same bitstream. If these flags did not exist and you changed the value of profile_idc in a bitstream, then decoders of the original profile would not decode the bitstream, even though they could as far as the set of features used in the bitstream are concerned. It is obviously desirable to enable as many decoders as possible to decode a bitstream. 4) Furthermore, in the absence of these flags it could be very difficult to determine whether a bitstream obeys all the constraints that would allow profile_idc to be changed. This is particularly true regarding some constraints that are not obvious from examining headers, such as the MaxSubMbRectSize constraint that applies only in the Baseline and Extended profiles. 5) For the Baseline, Main, and Extended profiles, constraint_set3_flag was used to insert a level 1b in between levels 1 and 1.1 in a backward-compatible fashion. This could be difficult to do if we had not reserved some syntax for such uses. 6) Note that some uses of these flags remain reserved for future uses yet to be determined. The flags can be very useful for future extensibility. 7) Note that reserved_zero_4bits contains four more bits that can be defined as flags or other such syntax elements for future extensibility purposes. 8) For implementation purposes, it is not really necessary to have a good answer to questions about why things in a standard are the way they are. It is more important to understand "what" the standard says than "why" it says what it says. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan ________________________________ From: mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of EricChuang@via.com.tw Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2023 6:28 AM To: mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech] Questions about constraint flags Dear experts, I have a question about the constraint_set0_flag, constraint_set1_flag, ... constraint_set3_flag. I have no idea why this kind of flag is used for. The same restriction can be achieved by changing the profile_idc. It seems that these flags can be used to indicate it conforms to baseline, main, or exteded profile, etc.. even if the profile_idc indicates it's high profile. Why not just changing the profile_idc, and created these 4 constraint flags ? Thanks, Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060620/1698811d/attachment-0001.html From EricChuang via.com.tw Wed Jun 21 11:00:35 2006 From: EricChuang via.com.tw (EricChuang@via.com.tw) Date: Wed Jun 21 09:34:58 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Questions about constraint flags Message-ID: <6A7AB4426712514F9E2AB28C407285FA10A8A08F@EXCHTP02.taipei.via.com.tw> Yes, very great description. I got it. Thank you very much, Eric -----Original Message----- From: Gary Sullivan [mailto:garysull@windows.microsoft.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2023 6:41 PM To: Eric Chuang; mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] Questions about constraint flags Regarding 2 - Please notice that: a) The text says that "constraint_set2_flag indicates that the bitstream obeys all constraints specified in subclause A.2.3". b) One of the constraints in subclause A.2.3 is that "The syntax elements chroma_format_idc, bit_depth_luma_minus8, bit_depth_chroma_minus8, qpprime_y_zero_transform_bypass_flag, and seq_scaling_matrix_present_flag shall not be present in sequence parameter sets." c) Furthermore, notice from the syntax tables in subclause 7.3.2.1 show that those syntax elements MUST be present if profile_idc indicates the High profile. It is therefore not possible to fulfill all constraints in A.2.3 when profile_idc indicates the High profile, and therefore constraint_set2_flag must be equal to 0 in that case. This is a matter in the process of further clarification (see the most recent published ITU-T version vs. the most recent published MPEG version, for example). Regarding 4 - My remarks assumed you were talking about taking an existing bitstream (in general, produced by someone else's encoder) and changing the value of profile_idc in it. It wasn't about the case when an encoder is producing a bitstream that will not be repurposed later. If you are only concerned about cases where you are producing the bitstream yourself, this aspect may not apply (although my remark #3 would still apply). Best Regards, -Gary Sullivan ________________________________ From: EricChuang@via.com.tw [mailto:EricChuang@via.com.tw] Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2023 6:16 PM To: Gary Sullivan; mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] Questions about constraint flags Hi Gary, Regarding 2), I did not read any statements explicitly to have the requirement that these flags set to 0 in Hgih profile. It seems to me that If a High profile bitstream set the constraint_set2_flag to 1, some decoder conforming to Main profile cannot decode it correctly, because there are more syntax element in SPS that may not be understood by the Main profile decoder. Is it the reason that these flags set to 0 in high profile ? About 4) I cannot understand why it's difficult to change profile_idc without constraint flags existence. Since the profile_idc and constraint flag are set by encoder, if an encoder could be able to set the constraint flag, it can change the profile accordingly if it wants. I really appreciate your comment on this, I got lot from it. I'm not just for implementation purposes, I wish to know more, so I'd like to know the reason behind it. Thanks very much, Eric. -----Original Message----- From: Gary Sullivan [mailto:garysull@windows.microsoft.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2023 10:16 AM To: Eric Chuang; mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] Questions about constraint flags Eric et al, 1) Be careful about conceptually lumping all of those flags together. constraint_set3_flag is quite different than the others. 2) You seem to have made a mistake regarding High profile. When profile_idc indicates High profile (profile_idc equal to 100), all four of those flags must be equal to 0. 3) For constraint_set0_flag, constraint_set1_flag, and constraint_set2_flag, these enable decoders of multiple profiles to be able to decode the same bitstream. If these flags did not exist and you changed the value of profile_idc in a bitstream, then decoders of the original profile would not decode the bitstream, even though they could as far as the set of features used in the bitstream are concerned. It is obviously desirable to enable as many decoders as possible to decode a bitstream. 4) Furthermore, in the absence of these flags it could be very difficult to determine whether a bitstream obeys all the constraints that would allow profile_idc to be changed. This is particularly true regarding some constraints that are not obvious from examining headers, such as the MaxSubMbRectSize constraint that applies only in the Baseline and Extended profiles. 5) For the Baseline, Main, and Extended profiles, constraint_set3_flag was used to insert a level 1b in between levels 1 and 1.1 in a backward-compatible fashion. This could be difficult to do if we had not reserved some syntax for such uses. 6) Note that some uses of these flags remain reserved for future uses yet to be determined. The flags can be very useful for future extensibility. 7) Note that reserved_zero_4bits contains four more bits that can be defined as flags or other such syntax elements for future extensibility purposes. 8) For implementation purposes, it is not really necessary to have a good answer to questions about why things in a standard are the way they are. It is more important to understand "what" the standard says than "why" it says what it says. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan ________________________________ From: mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of EricChuang@via.com.tw Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2023 6:28 AM To: mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech] Questions about constraint flags Dear experts, I have a question about the constraint_set0_flag, constraint_set1_flag, ... constraint_set3_flag. I have no idea why this kind of flag is used for. The same restriction can be achieved by changing the profile_idc. It seems that these flags can be used to indicate it conforms to baseline, main, or exteded profile, etc.. even if the profile_idc indicates it's high profile. Why not just changing the profile_idc, and created these 4 constraint flags ? Thanks, Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060621/a8524934/attachment-0001.html From Erez.Steinberg freescale.com Wed Jun 21 13:23:23 2006 From: Erez.Steinberg freescale.com (Steinberg Erez-RM96322) Date: Wed Jun 21 09:35:19 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] Use of SPS/PPS in H.264 Message-ID: <75B28D1B75754E4BAEAF634C9498EC9020F286@zil05exm11.fsl.freescale.net> Hi, H.264 allows up to 32 sequence parameter sets (SPS) and 256 picture parameter sets (PPS) in a stream. An SPS includes information on the picture resolution, number of reference frame, profile and level. These are cardinal for decoder initialization and setup. My questions: (1) Is a decoder expected to handle spontaneous changes in these parameters? I.e., if an IDR picture is received with a different PPS/SPS, is it supposed to reallocate all its memory buffers? (This is effectively resetting the decoder) (2) For practical implementations -- are there any known applications that use different SPSs in the same stream? Or, can a decoder assume only one SPS? Thanks for your help! Regards, Erez From alexc improvsys.com Wed Jun 21 14:28:36 2006 From: alexc improvsys.com (Alex Converse) Date: Thu Jun 22 09:22:20 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] Redundant Slices in JM10.2 Message-ID: <449981C4.2010701@improvsys.com> Dear experts, Sorry if this is a duplicate message my list confirmation came in later than I expected. Using the JM110.2 reference software encoding and decoding a baseline stream using the following commands: $ ./lencod.exe -d encoder_baseline.cfg $ ./ldecod.exe encodes and decodes a stream properly. Trying again with redundant slices, using the following commands: $ ./lencod.exe -d encoder_baseline.cfg -p UseRedundantSlice=1 $ ./ldecod.exe gives me a "mb_qp_delta is out of range" error on the decoding process before finishing the first frame. Is this the expected behavior? Am I misusing the encoder or decoder? I know redundant slices exist largely for helping decoders decode non-conformant streams but if the stream is otherwise conformant shouldn't it decode properly? Thanks, Alex Converse From garysull windows.microsoft.com Wed Jun 21 12:58:26 2006 From: garysull windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Thu Jun 22 09:22:33 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] Use of SPS/PPS in H.264 In-Reply-To: <75B28D1B75754E4BAEAF634C9498EC9020F286@zil05exm11.fsl.freescale.net> Message-ID: <03CB47D9C3F8074498E4653F814D6E8F011847B8@WIN-MSG-20.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Response in-line below. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan +> -----Original Message----- +> From: mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org +> [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of +> Steinberg Erez-RM96322 +> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2023 2:23 AM +> To: mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org +> Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] Use of SPS/PPS in H.264 +> +> Hi, +> +> H.264 allows up to 32 sequence parameter sets (SPS) and 256 picture +> parameter sets (PPS) in a stream. This is not exactly true. Those are not limits on the number of SPSs and PPSs that are allowed in a bitstream. Those are limits on the number of SPSs and PPSs that a decoder must be capable of storing at the same time. There are no limits on the number of SPSs and PPSs allowed in a bitstream. +> +> An SPS includes information on the picture resolution, number of +> reference frame, profile and level. These are cardinal for decoder +> initialization and setup. +> +> My questions: +> +> (1) Is a decoder expected to handle spontaneous changes in these +> parameters? I.e., if an IDR picture is received with a different +> PPS/SPS, is it supposed to reallocate all its memory +> buffers? (This is +> effectively resetting the decoder) Yes. There are some special exceptions made about how a decoder may behave when that happens, but it can happen. +> +> (2) For practical implementations -- are there any known applications +> that use different SPSs in the same stream? Or, can a decoder assume +> only one SPS? Yes there are practical applications. A decoder cannot assume only one SPS will be in a bitstream. Also, even if only one SPS index is used in a bitstream, the SPS content associated with that index can change. +> +> +> Thanks for your help! +> +> Regards, +> Erez +> +> _______________________________________________ +> NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include +> [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another +> apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. +> +> Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the +> Antitrust guidelines found at +> http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Ant +> itrust.php +> From Erez.Steinberg freescale.com Thu Jun 22 00:46:39 2006 From: Erez.Steinberg freescale.com (Steinberg Erez-RM96322) Date: Thu Jun 22 09:22:45 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] Use of SPS/PPS in H.264 Message-ID: <75B28D1B75754E4BAEAF634C9498EC902AEEDD@zil05exm11.fsl.freescale.net> Thanks Gary, So, I understand that an SPS can override a previous SPS with the same id. I'm guessing this is not allowed in the middle of a sequence, rather it requires and IDR picture to follow. The problem I have with supporting multiple PPS/SPS is how to handle memory allocation. I'm working on a real-time system, and dynamic memory allocation has to be deterministic. I understand that in order to be compliant I would have to allocate the worst-case buffer for reference frames, SPS records, PPS records, etc. This result in a cumbersome amount of memory, and for an infrastructure system that needs to support many channels this has a high cost. Is there a way, perhaps out-of-band, to negotiate between clients on the maximum number of SPS, PPS, etc. that will be used during a session? Regards, Erez -----Original Message----- From: Gary Sullivan [mailto:garysull@windows.microsoft.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2023 21:58 To: Steinberg Erez-RM96322; mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] Use of SPS/PPS in H.264 Response in-line below. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan +> -----Original Message----- +> From: mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org +> [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of +> Steinberg Erez-RM96322 +> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2023 2:23 AM +> To: mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org +> Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] Use of SPS/PPS in H.264 +> +> Hi, +> +> H.264 allows up to 32 sequence parameter sets (SPS) and 256 picture +> parameter sets (PPS) in a stream. This is not exactly true. Those are not limits on the number of SPSs and PPSs that are allowed in a bitstream. Those are limits on the number of SPSs and PPSs that a decoder must be capable of storing at the same time. There are no limits on the number of SPSs and PPSs allowed in a bitstream. +> +> An SPS includes information on the picture resolution, number of +> reference frame, profile and level. These are cardinal for decoder +> initialization and setup. +> +> My questions: +> +> (1) Is a decoder expected to handle spontaneous changes in these +> parameters? I.e., if an IDR picture is received with a different +> PPS/SPS, is it supposed to reallocate all its memory +> buffers? (This is +> effectively resetting the decoder) Yes. There are some special exceptions made about how a decoder may behave when that happens, but it can happen. +> +> (2) For practical implementations -- are there any known applications +> that use different SPSs in the same stream? Or, can a decoder assume +> only one SPS? Yes there are practical applications. A decoder cannot assume only one SPS will be in a bitstream. Also, even if only one SPS index is used in a bitstream, the SPS content associated with that index can change. +> +> +> Thanks for your help! +> +> Regards, +> Erez +> +> _______________________________________________ +> NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include +> [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another +> apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. +> +> Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the +> Antitrust guidelines found at +> http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Ant +> itrust.php +> From dmitriy graphics.cs.msu.ru Thu Jun 22 03:28:36 2006 From: dmitriy graphics.cs.msu.ru (Dmitriy Vatolin) Date: Thu Jun 22 09:22:56 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] CALL FOR MPEG4-AVC/H.264 CODECS Message-ID: <1163240433.20060622022836@graphics.cs.msu.ru> Dear Experts, Please, forward this information to H.264 codecs developers! =========================================================================== CALL FOR MPEG4-AVC/H.264 CODECS Third Annual H.264 video codec comparison For people, who make real research in field of high-end video compression =========================================================================== Scope of test ------------- * Encoding and decoding time * Objective measurements (PSNR, SSIM, VQM, Average Advantage and etc) * Analysis of averaged objective results * Leaders in different areas * Cross-compatibility test Important Dates --------------- * August, 1 - deadline for receipt of a H.264 codec with required presets * August, 15 - deadline for settling technical problems with codec's functioning The Facts about the Previous H.264 Video Codecs Comparison ---------------------------------------------------------- * There were more than 50.000 downloads of previous H.264 video codec comparison results * Many codec's bugs were found and reported to developers * Following codecs was granted for second annual comparison by developers last year (in alphabetic order): - ArcSoft H.264 - Ateme H.264 - ATI H.264 - Elecard H.264 - Fraunhofer IIS H.264 - VSS H.264 - x264 * Intel H.264 will going to take part in comparison this year Enhancements from Previous H.264/AVC Comparison ----------------------------------------------- * Better sequences set (several subsets with independent encoding presets and results calculation) * Decompression will be performed by JM reference software * Comparison of original decoders and JM reference decoder (postfilters testing) will be added * Cross-compatibility test will be added * Decoders time measurement will be added * 2-pass encoding will be added and tested Developers Deliverables ----------------------- Following deliverables should be provided by each developer: * Codec files (CLI executable file is preferable) * Short description of codec parameters * Codec's presets with pointing of used H.264/AVC profile Useful Links ------------ * Second Annual MSU MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 Video Codec Comparison http://www.compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/mpeg-4_avc_h264_2005_en.html * MPEG-2 Video Decoders "Crash-Test" Comparison http://www.compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/mpeg-2_2006_en.html * MSU MPEG-4 SP/ASP Codecs Comparison http://www.compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/mpeg-4_en.html * MSU Lossless Video Codecs Comparison http://www.compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/lossless_codecs_en.html See full text of CALL FOR MPEG4-AVC/H.264 CODECS on http://www.compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/call_for_codecs_06.html Please let us know if any questions! -- Best regards, Dmitriy Vatolin Ph.D, Head of Video Group mailto:dmitriy@graphics.cs.msu.ru From garysull windows.microsoft.com Wed Jun 21 16:46:12 2006 From: garysull windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Thu Jun 22 09:23:22 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] Use of SPS/PPS in H.264 In-Reply-To: <75B28D1B75754E4BAEAF634C9498EC902AEEDD@zil05exm11.fsl.freescale.net> Message-ID: <03CB47D9C3F8074498E4653F814D6E8F01184A40@WIN-MSG-20.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Reply intserpersed: Best Regards, Gary Sullivan +> -----Original Message----- +> From: Steinberg Erez-RM96322 [mailto:Erez.Steinberg@freescale.com] +> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2023 1:47 PM +> To: Gary Sullivan; mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org +> Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] Use of SPS/PPS in H.264 +> +> Thanks Gary, +> +> So, I understand that an SPS can override a previous SPS +> with the same +> id. I'm guessing this is not allowed in the middle of a +> sequence, rather +> it requires and IDR picture to follow. Yes, such overrides are not allowed for the SPS that is "active" for the decoding of the current coded video sequence. But new content for the non-active SPS id's can arrive in the middle of the coded video sequence. And repetitions with the same content are allowed for the active SPS. +> +> The problem I have with supporting multiple PPS/SPS is how to handle +> memory allocation. I'm working on a real-time system, and +> dynamic memory +> allocation has to be deterministic. I understand that in order to be +> compliant I would have to allocate the worst-case buffer for +> reference +> frames, SPS records, PPS records, etc. This result in a cumbersome +> amount of memory, and for an infrastructure system that +> needs to support +> many channels this has a high cost. My guess is that the quantity of memory reserved for SPS and PPS storage will ordinarily be fairly small compared to the total memory needed by a decoder. +> +> Is there a way, perhaps out-of-band, to negotiate between +> clients on the +> maximum number of SPS, PPS, etc. that will be used during a session? I am not aware of such a protocol. I think perhaps such a thing exists in SIP/SDP usage, but I don't know for sure. +> +> +> Regards, +> Erez +> +> -----Original Message----- +> From: Gary Sullivan [mailto:garysull@windows.microsoft.com] +> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2023 21:58 +> To: Steinberg Erez-RM96322; mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org +> Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] Use of SPS/PPS in H.264 +> +> +> Response in-line below. +> +> Best Regards, +> +> Gary Sullivan +> +> +> -----Original Message----- +> +> From: mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org +> +> [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of +> +> Steinberg Erez-RM96322 +> +> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2023 2:23 AM +> +> To: mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org +> +> Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] Use of SPS/PPS in H.264 +> +> +> +> Hi, +> +> +> +> H.264 allows up to 32 sequence parameter sets (SPS) and +> 256 picture +> +> parameter sets (PPS) in a stream. +> +> This is not exactly true. Those are not limits on the number of SPSs +> and PPSs that are allowed in a bitstream. Those are limits on the +> number of SPSs and PPSs that a decoder must be capable of +> storing at the +> same time. +> +> There are no limits on the number of SPSs and PPSs allowed in a +> bitstream. +> +> +> +> +> +> An SPS includes information on the picture resolution, number of +> +> reference frame, profile and level. These are cardinal for decoder +> +> initialization and setup. +> +> +> +> My questions: +> +> +> +> (1) Is a decoder expected to handle spontaneous changes in these +> +> parameters? I.e., if an IDR picture is received with a different +> +> PPS/SPS, is it supposed to reallocate all its memory +> +> buffers? (This is +> +> effectively resetting the decoder) +> +> +> Yes. There are some special exceptions made about how a decoder may +> behave when that happens, but it can happen. +> +> +> +> +> (2) For practical implementations -- are there any known +> applications +> +> that use different SPSs in the same stream? Or, can a +> decoder assume +> +> only one SPS? +> +> +> Yes there are practical applications. A decoder cannot +> assume only one +> SPS will be in a bitstream. Also, even if only one SPS +> index is used in +> a bitstream, the SPS content associated with that index can change. +> +> +> +> +> +> +> Thanks for your help! +> +> +> +> Regards, +> +> Erez +> +> +> +> _______________________________________________ +> +> NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include +> +> [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another +> +> apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. +> +> +> +> Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the +> +> Antitrust guidelines found at +> +> http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Ant +> +> itrust.php +> +> +> +> From bravearun rediffmail.com Thu Jun 22 11:00:49 2006 From: bravearun rediffmail.com (arun menon) Date: Thu Jun 22 09:23:39 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] Use of SPS/PPS in H.264 Message-ID: <20060622095858.5033.qmail@webmail30.rediffmail.com> Hi Erez, Please my comments below. Thanks, Arun On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 Steinberg Erez-RM96322 wrote : >Hi, > >H.264 allows up to 32 sequence parameter sets (SPS) and 256 picture >parameter sets (PPS) in a stream. > >An SPS includes information on the picture resolution, number of >reference frame, profile and level. These are cardinal for decoder >initialization and setup. > >My questions: > >(1) Is a decoder expected to handle spontaneous changes in these >parameters? I.e., if an IDR picture is received with a different >PPS/SPS, is it supposed to reallocate all its memory buffers? (This is >effectively resetting the decoder) --------------------------------------------------------------------- An example I can think of when the decoder will receive SPS and PPS information with different picture resolution could be during playing of live content. If at any time the encoder finds that the network bandwidth is reduced due to some reason, it could encode and send smaller frame size. In this case you should reallocate the memory buffers used for the frames. Alternatively you can allocate your memory buffers with the max size supported to prevent the freeing and reallocation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >(2) For practical implementations -- are there any known applications >that use different SPSs in the same stream? Or, can a decoder assume >only one SPS? > It would be wrong if the decoder assumes that there would be only one SPS or PPS because you do get multiple SPS and PPS in some streams. But there is also the possibility that sometimes the same information in SPS and PPS is sent again, instead of some thing different (I have encountered a few such clips). > >Thanks for your help! > >Regards, >Erez > >_______________________________________________ >NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. > >Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060622/60e0da69/attachment-0001.html From singer apple.com Thu Jun 22 10:56:19 2006 From: singer apple.com (Dave Singer) Date: Fri Jun 23 12:34:16 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] Use of SPS/PPS in H.264 In-Reply-To: <20060622095858.5033.qmail@webmail30.rediffmail.com> References: <20060622095858.5033.qmail@webmail30.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: Don't forget that although the AVC core specification doesn't place limits on the number of SPS/PPS, how often they change etc., it's perfectly legitimate for an environment that *uses* AVC to limit * profiles * levels * changes in visual size * pixel aspect ratios, color spaces, etc. * numbers of SPS/PPS * whether updates of SPS/PPS are out of band or in band in the video stream, if they are allowed * whether 'Paris' appears in the video sequence and so on. At 9:58 +0000 22/06/06, arun menon wrote: >Hi Erez, > >Please my comments below. > >Thanks, >Arun > > >On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 Steinberg Erez-RM96322 wrote : >>Hi, >> >>H.264 allows up to 32 sequence parameter sets (SPS) and 256 picture >>parameter sets (PPS) in a stream. >> >>An SPS includes information on the picture resolution, number of >>reference frame, profile and level. These are cardinal for decoder >>initialization and setup. >> >>My questions: >> >>(1) Is a decoder expected to handle spontaneous changes in these >>parameters? I.e., if an IDR picture is received with a different >>PPS/SPS, is it supposed to reallocate all its memory buffers? (This is >>effectively resetting the decoder) >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >An example I can think of when the decoder will receive SPS and PPS >information with different picture resolution could be during >playing of live content. If at any time the encoder finds that the >network bandwidth is reduced due to some reason, it could encode and >send smaller frame size. In this case you should reallocate the >memory buffers used for the frames. Alternatively you can allocate >your memory buffers with the max size supported to prevent the >freeing and reallocation. >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>(2) For practical implementations -- are there any known applications >>that use different SPSs in the same stream? Or, can a decoder assume >>only one SPS? >> > It would be wrong if the decoder assumes that there would be only >one SPS or PPS because you do get multiple SPS and PPS in some >streams. But there is also the possibility that sometimes the same >information in SPS and PPS is sent again, instead of some thing >different (I have encountered a few such clips). >> >>Thanks for your help! >> >>Regards, >>Erez >> >>_______________________________________________ >>NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include >>[audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate >>identifier to indicate the type of question you have. >> >>Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust >>guidelines found at >>http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, >[video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to >indicate the type of question you have. > >Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust >guidelines found at >http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php -- David Singer Apple Computer/QuickTime -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060622/550c8489/attachment.html From lists06 wiltgen.net Thu Jun 22 15:55:37 2006 From: lists06 wiltgen.net (Charles) Date: Fri Jun 23 12:34:27 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] CALL FOR MPEG4-AVC/H.264 CODECS In-Reply-To: <1163240433.20060622022836@graphics.cs.msu.ru> References: <1163240433.20060622022836@graphics.cs.msu.ru> Message-ID: <00d001c69646$988332d0$c9899870$@net> Dmitry, These are interesting tests, and I think your work would get more attention if you'd test QuickTime's AVC encoder. You should also test Sorenson Video's encoder. If you need help with this, let me know. -- Charles -----Original Message----- From: mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of Dmitriy Vatolin Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2023 3:29 PM To: mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech] CALL FOR MPEG4-AVC/H.264 CODECS Dear Experts, Please, forward this information to H.264 codecs developers! =========================================================================== CALL FOR MPEG4-AVC/H.264 CODECS Third Annual H.264 video codec comparison For people, who make real research in field of high-end video compression =========================================================================== Scope of test ------------- * Encoding and decoding time * Objective measurements (PSNR, SSIM, VQM, Average Advantage and etc) * Analysis of averaged objective results * Leaders in different areas * Cross-compatibility test Important Dates --------------- * August, 1 - deadline for receipt of a H.264 codec with required presets * August, 15 - deadline for settling technical problems with codec's functioning The Facts about the Previous H.264 Video Codecs Comparison ---------------------------------------------------------- * There were more than 50.000 downloads of previous H.264 video codec comparison results * Many codec's bugs were found and reported to developers * Following codecs was granted for second annual comparison by developers last year (in alphabetic order): - ArcSoft H.264 - Ateme H.264 - ATI H.264 - Elecard H.264 - Fraunhofer IIS H.264 - VSS H.264 - x264 * Intel H.264 will going to take part in comparison this year Enhancements from Previous H.264/AVC Comparison ----------------------------------------------- * Better sequences set (several subsets with independent encoding presets and results calculation) * Decompression will be performed by JM reference software * Comparison of original decoders and JM reference decoder (postfilters testing) will be added * Cross-compatibility test will be added * Decoders time measurement will be added * 2-pass encoding will be added and tested Developers Deliverables ----------------------- Following deliverables should be provided by each developer: * Codec files (CLI executable file is preferable) * Short description of codec parameters * Codec's presets with pointing of used H.264/AVC profile Useful Links ------------ * Second Annual MSU MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 Video Codec Comparison http://www.compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/mpeg-4_avc_h264_2005_en.htm l * MPEG-2 Video Decoders "Crash-Test" Comparison http://www.compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/mpeg-2_2006_en.html * MSU MPEG-4 SP/ASP Codecs Comparison http://www.compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/mpeg-4_en.html * MSU Lossless Video Codecs Comparison http://www.compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/lossless_codecs_en.html See full text of CALL FOR MPEG4-AVC/H.264 CODECS on http://www.compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/call_for_codecs_06.html Please let us know if any questions! -- Best regards, Dmitriy Vatolin Ph.D, Head of Video Group mailto:dmitriy@graphics.cs.msu.ru From xie_yg2000 yahoo.com.cn Thu Jun 22 22:00:01 2006 From: xie_yg2000 yahoo.com.cn (yaguang xie) Date: Fri Jun 23 12:34:37 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech][H.264] Sliding window decoded reference picture marking In-Reply-To: <03CB47D9C3F8074498E4653F814D6E8F011847B8@WIN-MSG-20.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <20060623040001.10403.qmail@web15705.mail.cnb.yahoo.com> Dear experts, I have a question to 8.2.5.3(sliding window ref_pic marking) as following. Let numShortTerm be the total number frames,complementary reference field pairs and non-paired reference fields for which at least one field is marked as "used for short-term reference". My question is: If the two fields of a frame are short-term reference picture with different frame_num, should the numShortTerm be added by 1 or 2 for this frame? (since the frame_num is different, the two fields should not be complementary,they are non-paired reference fields.) Thanks in advance! yaguang xie --------------------------------- Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Football ?06 - Go with the leader. Start your league today! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060622/772ae999/attachment.html From dmitriy graphics.cs.msu.ru Fri Jun 23 13:08:55 2006 From: dmitriy graphics.cs.msu.ru (Dmitriy Vatolin) Date: Fri Jun 23 12:34:47 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] CALL FOR MPEG4-AVC/H.264 CODECS In-Reply-To: <00d001c69646$988332d0$c9899870$@net> References: <1163240433.20060622022836@graphics.cs.msu.ru> <00d001c69646$988332d0$c9899870$@net> Message-ID: <1566360981.20060623120855@graphics.cs.msu.ru> Dear Charles, Friday, June 23, 2006, 1:55:37 AM, you wrote: C> These are interesting tests, and I think your work would get more C> attention if you'd test QuickTime's AVC encoder. Yes, I think so. We include into comparison only codecs with presets, that we received from developers (so solve problem with preset settings selecting) and after last comparison we correspond with Dave Singer from Apple. He promised to help us to include Apple codec into next comparison. C> You should also test Sorenson Video's encoder. If you need help with C> this, let me know. O, if you will help us with direct communication with developers - this will be wonderful! Thank you! Yours, Dr. Vatolin C> -----Original Message----- C> From: mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org C> [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of Dmitriy Vatolin C> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2023 3:29 PM C> To: mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org C> Subject: [Mp4-tech] CALL FOR MPEG4-AVC/H.264 CODECS C> Dear Experts, C> Please, forward this information to H.264 codecs developers! C> =========================================================================== C> CALL FOR MPEG4-AVC/H.264 CODECS C> Third Annual H.264 video codec comparison For people, who make C> real research in field of high-end video compression C> =========================================================================== C> Scope of test C> ------------- C> * Encoding and decoding time C> * Objective measurements (PSNR, SSIM, VQM, Average Advantage and etc) C> * Analysis of averaged objective results C> * Leaders in different areas C> * Cross-compatibility test C> Important Dates C> --------------- C> * August, 1 - deadline for receipt of a H.264 codec with required presets C> * August, 15 - deadline for settling technical problems with codec's C> functioning C> The Facts about the Previous H.264 Video Codecs Comparison C> ---------------------------------------------------------- C> C> * There were more than 50.000 downloads of previous H.264 video codec C> comparison results C> * Many codec's bugs were found and reported to developers C> * Following codecs was granted for second annual comparison by C> developers last year (in alphabetic order): C> - ArcSoft H.264 C> - Ateme H.264 C> - ATI H.264 C> - Elecard H.264 C> - Fraunhofer IIS H.264 C> - VSS H.264 C> - x264 C> * Intel H.264 will going to take part in comparison this year C> Enhancements from Previous H.264/AVC Comparison C> ----------------------------------------------- C> * Better sequences set (several subsets with independent encoding presets C> and results calculation) C> * Decompression will be performed by JM reference software C> * Comparison of original decoders and JM reference decoder (postfilters C> testing) will be added C> * Cross-compatibility test will be added C> * Decoders time measurement will be added C> * 2-pass encoding will be added and tested C> Developers Deliverables C> ----------------------- C> Following deliverables should be provided by each developer: C> * Codec files (CLI executable file is preferable) C> * Short description of codec parameters C> * Codec's presets with pointing of used H.264/AVC profile C> Useful Links C> ------------ C> * Second Annual MSU MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 Video Codec Comparison C> C> http://www.compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/mpeg-4_avc_h264_2005_en.htm C> l C> * MPEG-2 Video Decoders "Crash-Test" Comparison C> http://www.compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/mpeg-2_2006_en.html C> * MSU MPEG-4 SP/ASP Codecs Comparison C> http://www.compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/mpeg-4_en.html C> * MSU Lossless Video Codecs Comparison C> C> http://www.compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/lossless_codecs_en.html C> See full text of CALL FOR MPEG4-AVC/H.264 CODECS on C> http://www.compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/call_for_codecs_06.html C> Please let us know if any questions! C> -- C> Best regards, C> Dmitriy Vatolin C> Ph.D, Head of Video Group C> mailto:dmitriy@graphics.cs.msu.ru -- Best regards, Dmitriy mailto:dmitriy@graphics.cs.msu.ru From lists06 wiltgen.net Fri Jun 23 12:09:01 2006 From: lists06 wiltgen.net (Charles) Date: Sat Jun 24 12:46:15 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] CALL FOR MPEG4-AVC/H.264 CODECS In-Reply-To: <1566360981.20060623120855@graphics.cs.msu.ru> References: <1163240433.20060622022836@graphics.cs.msu.ru> <00d001c69646$988332d0$c9899870$@net> <1566360981.20060623120855@graphics.cs.msu.ru> Message-ID: <01bc01c696f0$1b233f10$5169bd30$@net> > ...after last comparison we correspond with Dave Singer from Apple. > He promised to help us to include Apple codec into next comparison. Perfect, that's the best guy you could possibly get to help you with that. I'm glad to hear it'll be included in your next round of testing. The Sorenson Media encoder is worth your time as well. I can help with that, or you can contact the company via the web form at http://www.sorensonmedia.com/company/contacts_form.php?dept=4. Best, -- Charles From garysull windows.microsoft.com Fri Jun 23 12:22:13 2006 From: garysull windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Sat Jun 24 12:46:27 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech][H.264] Sliding window decoded reference picture marking In-Reply-To: <20060623040001.10403.qmail@web15705.mail.cnb.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <03CB47D9C3F8074498E4653F814D6E8F0122B611@WIN-MSG-20.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Yaguang Xie, It is not entirely clear what you mean by "two fields of a frame". I believe that the only way this concept appears in the decoding process in the standard is in the concept of complementary field pairs. But both fields of a complementary field pair have the same value of frame_num, while you are referring to "two fields of a frame ... with different frame_num", so your question does not seem to make obvious sense. In any case I think the basic answer to your question is that if there are two reference fields in the DPB and those two fields have different values of frame_num, then those fields cannot be considered to be a complementary reference field pair. They would therefore, according to your description, seem to be categorized as two non-paired reference fields. And they would therefore count as 2 rather than 1 in the computation of numShortTerm. This interpretation should be particularly clear if you read Annex C. The concept is that the decoder has frame storage areas. When two fields are classified as a complementary field pair, they both go into the same frame storage area. When they are not complementary (such as when they have different values of frame_num), they go into different frame storage areas. The sliding window process manages these frame storage areas as its primitive units for reference picture marking, so it counts two of them for two non-paired reference fields and it counts one of them for a complementary reference field pair. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan ________________________________ From: mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of yaguang xie Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2023 9:00 PM To: mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech][H.264] Sliding window decoded reference picture marking Dear experts, I have a question to 8.2.5.3(sliding window ref_pic marking) as following. Let numShortTerm be the total number frames,complementary reference field pairs and non-paired reference fields for which at least one field is marked as "used for short-term reference". My question is: If the two fields of a frame are short-term reference picture with different frame_num, should the numShortTerm be added by 1 or 2 for this frame? (since the frame_num is different, the two fields should not be complementary,they are non-paired reference fields.) Thanks in advance! yaguang xie ________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Football '06 - Go with the leader. Start your league today! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060623/6382de09/attachment-0001.html From k_c_mani yahoo.com Fri Jun 23 14:15:12 2006 From: k_c_mani yahoo.com (kc manikandan) Date: Sat Jun 24 12:46:38 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Reg mpeg4 SVP level 0 Message-ID: <20060623201512.81777.qmail@web50710.mail.yahoo.com> Hello Everyone, I am trying to encode a simple mpeg4 video stream (SVP level 0) with help of xvid. I had also tried with 3 Gp converter etc. I always get an Mp4 container with a video stream (mp4v) (profile and level id = 0x3 or 0x1). I think these are for level 1 and level 3.is there a possibility to recode this stream to a level 0 ?? It would be very helpful if anyone can suggest me something. I should also encode short video header session, Header extension code and data partitioning mode. Can anyone suggest me where to look for. Mani. --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1?/min. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060623/08bc38c3/attachment.html From garysull windows.microsoft.com Fri Jun 23 17:32:04 2006 From: garysull windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Sat Jun 24 12:46:51 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] Use of SPS/PPS in H.264 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <03CB47D9C3F8074498E4653F814D6E8F0122B8A2@WIN-MSG-20.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> It is certainly legitimate for particular application environments to choose among the profiles and levels of a standard. And sometimes we do see other application-specific constraints being imposed (e.g., in the DVD format specs). But from an MPEG point of view, this sort of thing is somewhat discouraged -- it should at least be kept to a minimum. The desire is to have the standard work across different application domains as much as possible. If each application domain imposes a bunch of picky detailed special constraints, then we may end up with interoperability problems. For example, transferring video from your DVD storage device or from broadcast television or from your camcorder or webcam or videoconferencing system to your DVR or PC or mobile video player (after making sure you have the proper legal right to do that, of course) could become an unnecessarily bothersome, confusing, and unpredictable hassle. This is particularly an issue with application-domain constraints that would be difficult to detect (e.g., at the sequence level -- Do you really think it is OK to need to scan through the bitstream and count the number of PPSs? Do you really want to need a "Paris" scene detector in a video copying program?). Best Regards, Gary Sullivan ________________________________ From: mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of Dave Singer Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2023 9:56 AM To: arun menon; Steinberg Erez-RM96322 Cc: mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: Re: [Mp4-tech] [H.264] Use of SPS/PPS in H.264 Don't forget that although the AVC core specification doesn't place limits on the number of SPS/PPS, how often they change etc., it's perfectly legitimate for an environment that *uses* AVC to limit * profiles * levels * changes in visual size * pixel aspect ratios, color spaces, etc. * numbers of SPS/PPS * whether updates of SPS/PPS are out of band or in band in the video stream, if they are allowed * whether 'Paris' appears in the video sequence and so on. At 9:58 +0000 22/06/06, arun menon wrote: Hi Erez, Please my comments below. Thanks, Arun On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 Steinberg Erez-RM96322 wrote : >Hi, > >H.264 allows up to 32 sequence parameter sets (SPS) and 256 picture >parameter sets (PPS) in a stream. > >An SPS includes information on the picture resolution, number of >reference frame, profile and level. These are cardinal for decoder >initialization and setup. > >My questions: > >(1) Is a decoder expected to handle spontaneous changes in these >parameters? I.e., if an IDR picture is received with a different >PPS/SPS, is it supposed to reallocate all its memory buffers? (This is >effectively resetting the decoder) --------------------------------------------------------------------- An example I can think of when the decoder will receive SPS and PPS information with different picture resolution could be during playing of live content. If at any time the encoder finds that the network bandwidth is reduced due to some reason, it could encode and send smaller frame size. In this case you should reallocate the memory buffers used for the frames. Alternatively you can allocate your memory buffers with the max size supported to prevent the freeing and reallocation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >(2) For practical implementations -- are there any known applications >that use different SPSs in the same stream? Or, can a decoder assume >only one SPS? > It would be wrong if the decoder assumes that there would be only one SPS or PPS because you do get multiple SPS and PPS in some streams. But there is also the possibility that sometimes the same information in SPS and PPS is sent again, instead of some thing different (I have encountered a few such clips). > >Thanks for your help! > >Regards, >Erez > >_______________________________________________ >NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. > >Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php _______________________________________________ NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php -- David Singer Apple Computer/QuickTime -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060623/8cd6a0c7/attachment-0001.html From xie_yg2000 yahoo.com.cn Sat Jun 24 07:09:46 2006 From: xie_yg2000 yahoo.com.cn (yaguang xie) Date: Sat Jun 24 12:47:04 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech][H.264] Sliding window decoded reference picture marking In-Reply-To: <03CB47D9C3F8074498E4653F814D6E8F0122B611@WIN-MSG-20.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <20060624130946.52017.qmail@web15703.mail.cnb.yahoo.com> Hi Gary, Thanks very much for your clear interpretation! But I am still confused for something and have another question. Is the following case possible? There are 6 successive reference fields in the bitstream as: field 1(top,frame_num=1),field 2(bottom,frame_num=1), field 3(top,frame_num=2),field 4(bottom,frame_num=3), field 5(top,frame_num=4),field 6(bottom,frame_num=4). If it is possible, field 3 and field 4 are different frame, and the both frames will have only one field? It seems be conflicted with defenition 3.53(A frame consists of 2 field,top field and bottom field). and also I think it is not clear that how to output these "one field frame" to PC screen.(maybe output to TV is OK). If the case is impossible, I cannot find which section could guarantee the impossibility in the standard. Best regards, Yaguang Xie Gary Sullivan wrote: Yaguang Xie, It is not entirely clear what you mean by "two fields of a frame". I believe that the only way this concept appears in the decoding process in the standard is in the concept of complementary field pairs. But both fields of a complementary field pair have the same value of frame_num, while you are referring to "two fields of a frame ... with different frame_num", so your question does not seem to make obvious sense. In any case I think the basic answer to your question is that if there are two reference fields in the DPB and those two fields have different values of frame_num, then those fields cannot be considered to be a complementary reference field pair. They would therefore, according to your description, seem to be categorized as two non-paired reference fields. And they would therefore count as 2 rather than 1 in the computation of numShortTerm. This interpretation should be particularly clear if you read Annex C. The concept is that the decoder has frame storage areas. When two fields are classified as a complementary field pair, they both go into the same frame storage area. When they are not complementary (such as when they have different values of frame_num), they go into different frame storage areas. The sliding window process manages these frame storage areas as its primitive units for reference picture marking, so it counts two of them for two non-paired reference fields and it counts one of them for a complementary reference field pair. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan --------------------------------- From: mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces@lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of yaguang xie Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2023 9:00 PM To: mp4-tech@lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech][H.264] Sliding window decoded reference picture marking Dear experts, I have a question to 8.2.5.3(sliding window ref_pic marking) as following. Let numShortTerm be the total number frames,complementary reference field pairs and non-paired reference fields for which at least one field is marked as "used for short-term reference". My question is: If the two fields of a frame are short-term reference picture with different frame_num, should the numShortTerm be added by 1 or 2 for this frame? (since the frame_num is different, the two fields should not be complementary,they are non-paired reference fields.) Thanks in advance! yaguang xie --------------------------------- Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Football ??06 - Go with the leader. Start your league today! --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low PC-to-Phone call rates. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060624/80255eba/attachment-0001.html From sandipkrtech yahoo.com Sun Jun 25 09:26:00 2006 From: sandipkrtech yahoo.com (Sandip Ray) Date: Mon Jun 26 12:04:16 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [AAC] AAC source code Message-ID: <20060625152600.42288.qmail@web55306.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Dear All, I have downloaded AAC reference source code from http://standards.iso.org/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/ISO_IEC_14496-5_2001_Amd_6_Reference_Software/ I have built the code and created .exe file on linux machine. The encoder takes 16 bit .au file as input but generated output from the encoder is not a valid .aac bitstream. Similarly decoder takes ADIF file as input but generated output is not a valid .wav file. Can anyone please help me in building the source code correctly ? Thanks and Regards, Sandip --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060625/2f454ea4/attachment-0001.html From EricChuang via.com.tw Tue Jun 27 08:54:59 2006 From: EricChuang via.com.tw (EricChuang@via.com.tw) Date: Tue Jun 27 02:04:10 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] HRD Bumpping Process Message-ID: <6A7AB4426712514F9E2AB28C407285FA10A8A093@EXCHTP02.taipei.via.com.tw> Dear experts, I have two question about the HRD bumpping process. 1) In C.4.5.3, it desribes as following: - .... - If this frame buffer contains a complementary non-reference field pair with both fields marked as "needed for output" and both fields has the same PicOrderCnt(), the first of these two fields in decoding order is considered first for output. - Otherwise, if this frame buffer contains a complementary reference field pair with both fields marked as "needed for output" and both fields have the sampie PicOrderCnt(), the entire complementary reference field pair is considered first for output. - ... My first question is that when a frame buffer contains a complementary non-reference field pair, one of the field is considered first for output. And when the frame buffer contains a complementary reference field pair, both fields is considered first for output. Why they are different ? To me it seems both fields can be flushed out no matter it contains complementary reference field pair or complementary non-reference field pair, because the bumpping process is just seeking for a candidate of empty frame buffer, 2) The definition of POC is output order, I think it also means the display order. When two fields having the same POC, how can I display these two fields, merge them as a frame, and output, or output each field individually. Thank your for your comments, Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060627/1a357268/attachment.html From EricChuang via.com.tw Tue Jun 27 10:38:07 2006 From: EricChuang via.com.tw (EricChuang@via.com.tw) Date: Tue Jun 27 02:04:18 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] no_output_of_prior_pics_flag of IDR picture Message-ID: <6A7AB4426712514F9E2AB28C407285FA10A8A094@EXCHTP02.taipei.via.com.tw> Dear experts, In the standard, it describes that when no_output_of_prior_pics_flag is inferred to 1, the HRD will not output not-yet-output pictures, but in standard it suggests decoder implementation to handle this kind of case gracefully. Does it mean even when no_output_of_prior_pics_flag is inferred to 1, decoder can still display them without conflicting the output order conformance. Best Regards, Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060627/85676965/attachment.html From sandipkrtech yahoo.com Tue Jun 27 23:22:12 2006 From: sandipkrtech yahoo.com (Sandip Ray) Date: Wed Jun 28 09:10:17 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [Audio] Audio Conformance test Message-ID: <20060628052212.64842.qmail@web55310.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Dear All, The public domain reference code for AAC (ISO/IEC 14496-5) is floating point code. When I convert that to fixed point code, the output of encoder and decoder doesn't match bitexact with the conformance bitstreams provided by standard body. What is the test for conformance for fixed point audio encoder and decoder ? In case of video we measure PSNR and bitrate of generated bitstream. Is there any similar measurement for audio bitstream ? If you can give any information it will be helpful. Thanks and Regards, Sandip --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060627/a2743d4d/attachment.html From chh ecafe.idv.tw Wed Jun 28 10:31:46 2006 From: chh ecafe.idv.tw (ChengHsin Hsu) Date: Thu Jun 29 11:16:19 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] FGS in H.264 Message-ID: <0312D25A-FDDC-4D52-9520-4ADE546760C6@ecafe.idv.tw> Hi Experts, I have an impression that the bitplane coding was rejected, but, has there any FGS technique been standardized? Which standard doc. shall I look into for this? Or other references are highly appreciated. Thanks, Chenghsin From shailu sasken.com Thu Jun 29 00:48:57 2006 From: shailu sasken.com (Shailesh Sakri) Date: Thu Jun 29 11:16:33 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Re: Mp4-tech Digest, Vol 35, Issue 29 In-Reply-To: <200606281609.k5SG8sES017346@lists1.magma.ca> References: <200606281609.k5SG8sES017346@lists1.magma.ca> Message-ID: Hello Sandip, Please refer to ISO/IEC 14996-4 Conformance testing for more information on conformance testing of AAC decoder. Regards, Shailesh "SASKEN RATED Among THE Top 3 BEST COMPANIES TO WORK FOR IN INDIA - SURVEY 2005 conducted by the BUSINESS TODAY - Mercer - TNS India" SASKEN BUSINESS DISCLAIMER This message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally Privileged information. In case you are not the original intended Recipient of the message, you must not, directly or indirectly, use, Disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message and you are requested to delete it and inform the sender. 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However the company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email From pavan_dsp yahoo.co.in Thu Jun 29 12:44:40 2006 From: pavan_dsp yahoo.co.in (pavan kumar) Date: Thu Jun 29 11:16:52 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [Video] MPEG4 Video ASP test bit streams In-Reply-To: <20060628052212.64842.qmail@web55310.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060629104440.56067.qmail@web8401.mail.in.yahoo.com> Dear Experts I would like to know whether freely available ISO or any other bitstreams are available for MPEG4 Video Advanced Simple Profile Which Supports in general like.. - UMV - 4MV - Quantization method 1&2 (H263 & MPEG) - Interlaced video support and so on......... can u please give me a link to the bitstream test vectors Thanks in advance Pavan --------------------------------- Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click here Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on Yahoo! India Click here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060629/e9a789d0/attachment.html From Veenit.Vora patni.com Fri Jun 30 10:44:23 2006 From: Veenit.Vora patni.com (Vora, Veenit) Date: Fri Jun 30 11:46:12 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] MPEG4 Audio - regarding MPEG4 BSAC Message-ID: <6935184725DE0E4E914AF994B63467EA04A98306@EXCHSPZ01.patni.com> Dear All, I had a query regarding MPEG4 BSAC. I would like to know whether the Audio Object 22 as defined in the MPEG4 standard as ER BSAC support the PNS coding tool? If yes, where would I find: 1. Any document/information that specifies the compliance criteria for the above-mentioned combination. 2. Bit-streams that test the conformance of a test implementation according to the compliance criteria. Thanking you in advance. Awaiting your early reply. Regards, Veenit. From mp3.aac.mp4 gmail.com Fri Jun 30 11:49:43 2006 From: mp3.aac.mp4 gmail.com (tech list) Date: Fri Jun 30 11:46:21 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [AAC] AAC source code In-Reply-To: <20060625152600.42288.qmail@web55306.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <20060625152600.42288.qmail@web55306.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <409a09b90606292219r45151102l2c27dc2bfde4dc5e@mail.gmail.com> What bitstream is it actually generating? I have not used the source you are talking about (unless it is FAAC), but it may be writing in m4a format? On 6/25/06, Sandip Ray wrote: > > Dear All, > I have downloaded AAC reference source code from > http://standards.iso.org/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/ISO_IEC_14496-5_2001_Amd_6_Reference_Software/ > I have built the code and created .exe file on linux machine. The encoder > takes 16 bit .au file as input but generated output from the encoder is not > a valid .aac bitstream. Similarly decoder takes ADIF file as input but > generated output is not a valid .wav file. > > Can anyone please help me in building the source code correctly ? > > Thanks and Regards, > Sandip > > ------------------------------ > Do you Yahoo!? > Get on board. You're invitedto try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > _______________________________________________ > NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, > [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to indicate > the type of question you have. > > Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines > found at > http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060630/84bae543/attachment.html From Kirankumar.Csk analog.com Fri Jun 30 06:23:49 2006 From: Kirankumar.Csk analog.com (Csk, Kirankumar) Date: Fri Jun 30 11:46:30 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Players implementing H.264 on RTP? Message-ID: <7D453D0504B6A2429F98F4D72CBEDE4907AAA985@nwd2exm5.ad.analog.com> Hi all, We are developing H.264 support for RTP (RFC 3984) for our video streamer. Are there any free clients(players) available that have RFC 3984 support, that I can use to test our application? Thanks in advance, Regards Kiran -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060630/b98beadb/attachment.html From singer apple.com Fri Jun 30 10:57:19 2006 From: singer apple.com (Dave Singer) Date: Mon Jul 3 09:16:11 2006 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Players implementing H.264 on RTP? In-Reply-To: <7D453D0504B6A2429F98F4D72CBEDE4907AAA985@nwd2exm5.ad.analog.com> References: <7D453D0504B6A2429F98F4D72CBEDE4907AAA985@nwd2exm5.ad.analog.com> Message-ID: At 5:23 -0400 30/06/06, Csk, Kirankumar wrote: >Content-class: urn:content-classes:message >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C69C26.E3FB99DF" > >Hi all, >We are developing H.264 support for RTP (RFC 3984) for our video >streamer. Are there any free clients(players) available that have >RFC 3984 support, that I can use to test our application? > QuickTime, except that QT doesn't do all of either AVC/H.264, or all the RFC (the complex interleaved mode with decode-order numbers is left out). >Thanks in advance, > >Regards >Kiran > >_______________________________________________ >NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, >[video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to >indicate the type of question you have. > >Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust >guidelines found at >http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php -- David Singer Apple Computer/QuickTime -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20060630/a32d4abc/attachment.html