[M4IF Discuss] Use Fees (Was FW: MPEG-4 Audio Licensing begins)
Mikael Bourges-Sevenier
mikael sevenier.com
Mon Jun 16 16:56:24 EDT 2003
Dear Larry,
It is very helpful but I think the nature of synthetic contents makes the
notion of "normal playing time" very vague. This notion of "normal playing
time" works well for contents that are streamed to the terminal because, in
this case, it is like a video.
Let's take the example of a video with a spinning logo of a company in a
corner. I would understand the "normal playing time" as the time to play the
video. Would this also count for the same amount of time for the spinning
logo? Or maybe it would be the time to make a loop?
As the video can also play repeatedly, a synthetic animation can too, and
therefore the time to make a loop could be the "normal playing time" of the
synthetic content.
While a video has only one timeline, in a synthetic content, you have
multiple timeline maybe running in parallel, sequential, user or network
activated. In this case, what is the "normal playing time"?
Thanks for your clarifications,
Kind regards,
Mike
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Horn [mailto:LHorn mpegla.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2023 3:33 PM
> To: rob.koenen m4if.org; Mikael Bourges-Sevenier; Holger
> Grahn - Bitmanagement; M4IF Discussion List
> Cc: Dean Skandalis
> Subject: RE: [M4IF Discuss] Use Fees (Was FW: MPEG-4 Audio
> Licensing begins)
>
>
> Hello, Mikael, Holger and Rob,
>
> Under the MPEG-4 Systems License the royalties for the right
> to make, sell and use MPEG-4 Systems data decoders and MPEG-4
> Systems data encoders are included (with one exception) in
> the royalties paid by the product manufacturers ($0.15 per
> decoder subject to a $100,000 annual cap per legal entity and
> $0.25 per encoder subject to a $100,000 annual cap per legal
> entity). The exception is for the MPEG-4 Systems Stored Data
> Encoder which refers specifically to the composition of
> MPEG-4 Systems Data which is paid for on a title by title
> basis and which is either (i) stored, replicated or recorded
> onto one or more physical media or (ii) Transmitted to an
> End User in a form which allows the End User, either by
> affirmative act of the Licensee or otherwise to view, hear or
> use such data (a) at least 20 times and (b) for a period of
> at least 365 Days from the date of Transmission. In that
> case, the royalties to make, sell and use (Sections 2.10 and
> 3.1.10 of the License) (a) fall upon the Transmitter of
> MPEG-4 Stored Data and/or encoder and/or replicator of MPEG-4
> Stored Data onto packaged media and (b) are based upon the
> normal playing time of the Stored Data disc or Stored Data
> electronic transmission as it is intended to be viewed or
> used by an End User. Therefore, in the limited case where an
> MPEG-4 Systems Stored Data Encoder is used to create a loop
> of the kind you mention, the royalty under the MPEG-4 Systems
> License would be based upon the normal playing time of the
> Stored Data disc or Stored Data electronic transmission.
>
> I hope this is helpful.
>
> Best regards,
> Larry Horn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Koenen (M4IF) [mailto:rob.koenen m4if.org]
> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2023 2:28 PM
> To: 'Mikael Bourges-Sevenier'; 'Holger Grahn -
> Bitmanagement'; 'M4IF Discussion List'
> Subject: [M4IF Discuss] Use Fees (Was FW: MPEG-4 Audio
> Licensing begins)
>
>
> Those are good questions indeed. Note that the use fee is
> *much* more limited in the case of Systems than in the case
> of Visual, and in many cases it doesn't apply - such as your
> downloading example (I *believe* - MPEG LA to confirm or refute)
>
> Interestingly MPEG-4 Systems can be used to loop an MPEG-4
> Visual clip - and the same question *is* pertinent.
>
> I have asked similar questions in the past, such as what with
> two videos that are meant to run in parallel in two windows,
> but can also run sequentially.
>
> Holger's question seems to contain a misunderstanding on the
> use fee, namely that it applies to encoding. As I understand
> the license, this is not the case. Rather, the use fee
> applies to the content being transmitted, served, packaged,
> etc. Again, MPEG LA to confirm or correct.
>
> Rob
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mikael Bourges-Sevenier [mailto:mikael sevenier.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2023 11:19
> To: rob.koenen m4if.org; 'Holger Grahn - Bitmanagement';
> 'M4IF Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: [M4IF Discuss] FW: MPEG-4 Audio Licensing begins
>
>
> Rob,
>
> even if we can't answer for the licensing fees, Holger asks
> an important question (that was asked since early last year)
> regarding Systems licensing.
>
> From my understanding, Systems licensing follows Video
> licensing but the usage fee doesn't make any sense. For
> example, you can produce a few bytes long scene that can run
> indefinitely (animation loop). Downloading this would take a
> fraction of a second so what do pay for under the "usage
> fee"? What does "usage" means in this case?
>
> Maybe an MPEG LA reprentative can explain us?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Mike
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-admin lists.m4if.org
> [mailto:discuss-admin lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of Rob Koenen (M4IF)
> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2023 10:10 AM
> To: 'Holger Grahn - Bitmanagement'; M4IF Discussion List
> Subject: RE: [M4IF Discuss] FW: MPEG-4 Audio Licensing begins
>
>
> Holger,
>
> I wouldn't know; who pays licensing fees is none of my business.
>
> Some licenses have a threshold that may apply. Some
> information is on licensors' websites.
>
> You should ask the people that make software available if you
> really want to know.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Rob
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Holger Grahn - Bitmanagement
> [mailto:holger.grahn bitmanagement.de]
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2023 14:02
> To: rob.koenen m4if.org; M4IF Discussion List
> Cc: M4IF news
> Subject: Re: [M4IF Discuss] FW: MPEG-4 Audio Licensing begins
>
>
>
> Hi Rob,
>
> just curious,
> are all these companies/institutions/projects/individuals
> offering public download MPEG-4 stuff paying MPEG-LA /System
> /Audio/Video fees ?
>
> Or are these downloads are somehow illegal offerings, or will
> these free downloads stop at the end of the year because of
> the initial grace periods and they all get sued ? What is for
> example with Divx Networks, MPEG4IP - mp4creator, IBM's
> Authoring tools ? and btw how to measure royalties for
> encoders, especially Systems encoders producing scene graph
> files which can run an endless animations ?
>
> Greetings
>
> Holger
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rob Koenen (M4IF)
> To: M4IF Discussion List
> Cc: M4IF news
> Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2023 7:56 PM
> Subject: [M4IF Discuss] FW: MPEG-4 Audio Licensing begins
>
>
> I tired to send this message to the news list twice
> yesterday, but there are some problems with that list.
> Hopefully thisd does work.
> Rob
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Koenen (M4IF) [mailto:rob.koenen m4if.org]
> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2023 11:16
> To: 'M4IF news'
> Subject: MPEG-4 Audio Licensing begins
> M4IF News Readers,
> The news that MPEG-4 Audio licensing has begun was just
> released on the news wire.
> I think this is great news for MPEG-4 Audio, which includes
> MPEG-4 AAC. I hope - and expect - that this will enable
> deployment of many interoperable services and devices with
> great audio quality.
> Kind Regards,
> Rob Koenen
> President, M4IF
>
>
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