[M4IF Discuss] Use Fees (Was FW: MPEG-4 Audio Licensing begins)
Rob Koenen (M4IF)
rob.koenen m4if.org
Tue Jun 17 01:26:52 EDT 2003
While the notion of
"
normal playing time of the Stored Data disc or Stored Data
electronic transmission as it is intended to be viewed or
used by an End User
"
may make sense for "classical" (linear) video, for much of what
can be created with more advanced MPEG-4 tools that concept is
probably meaningless.
Best,
Rob
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mikael Bourges-Sevenier [mailto:mikael sevenier.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2023 15:56
> To: 'Larry Horn'; rob.koenen m4if.org; 'Holger Grahn -
> Bitmanagement'; 'M4IF Discussion List'
> Cc: 'Dean Skandalis'
> Subject: RE: [M4IF Discuss] Use Fees (Was FW: MPEG-4 Audio
> Licensing begins)
>
>
> Dear Larry,
>
> It is very helpful but I think the nature of synthetic
> contents makes the
> notion of "normal playing time" very vague. This notion of
> "normal playing
> time" works well for contents that are streamed to the
> terminal because, in
> this case, it is like a video.
>
> Let's take the example of a video with a spinning logo of a
> company in a
> corner. I would understand the "normal playing time" as the
> time to play the
> video. Would this also count for the same amount of time for
> the spinning
> logo? Or maybe it would be the time to make a loop?
>
> As the video can also play repeatedly, a synthetic animation
> can too, and
> therefore the time to make a loop could be the "normal
> playing time" of the
> synthetic content.
>
> While a video has only one timeline, in a synthetic content, you have
> multiple timeline maybe running in parallel, sequential, user
> or network
> activated. In this case, what is the "normal playing time"?
>
> Thanks for your clarifications,
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Mike
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Larry Horn [mailto:LHorn mpegla.com]
> > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2023 3:33 PM
> > To: rob.koenen m4if.org; Mikael Bourges-Sevenier; Holger
> > Grahn - Bitmanagement; M4IF Discussion List
> > Cc: Dean Skandalis
> > Subject: RE: [M4IF Discuss] Use Fees (Was FW: MPEG-4 Audio
> > Licensing begins)
> >
> >
> > Hello, Mikael, Holger and Rob,
> >
> > Under the MPEG-4 Systems License the royalties for the right
> > to make, sell and use MPEG-4 Systems data decoders and MPEG-4
> > Systems data encoders are included (with one exception) in
> > the royalties paid by the product manufacturers ($0.15 per
> > decoder subject to a $100,000 annual cap per legal entity and
> > $0.25 per encoder subject to a $100,000 annual cap per legal
> > entity). The exception is for the MPEG-4 Systems Stored Data
> > Encoder which refers specifically to the composition of
> > MPEG-4 Systems Data which is paid for on a title by title
> > basis and which is either (i) stored, replicated or recorded
> > onto one or more physical media or (ii) Transmitted to an
> > End User in a form which allows the End User, either by
> > affirmative act of the Licensee or otherwise to view, hear or
> > use such data (a) at least 20 times and (b) for a period of
> > at least 365 Days from the date of Transmission. In that
> > case, the royalties to make, sell and use (Sections 2.10 and
> > 3.1.10 of the License) (a) fall upon the Transmitter of
> > MPEG-4 Stored Data and/or encoder and/or replicator of MPEG-4
> > Stored Data onto packaged media and (b) are based upon the
> > normal playing time of the Stored Data disc or Stored Data
> > electronic transmission as it is intended to be viewed or
> > used by an End User. Therefore, in the limited case where an
> > MPEG-4 Systems Stored Data Encoder is used to create a loop
> > of the kind you mention, the royalty under the MPEG-4 Systems
> > License would be based upon the normal playing time of the
> > Stored Data disc or Stored Data electronic transmission.
> >
> > I hope this is helpful.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Larry Horn
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rob Koenen (M4IF) [mailto:rob.koenen m4if.org]
> > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2023 2:28 PM
> > To: 'Mikael Bourges-Sevenier'; 'Holger Grahn -
> > Bitmanagement'; 'M4IF Discussion List'
> > Subject: [M4IF Discuss] Use Fees (Was FW: MPEG-4 Audio
> > Licensing begins)
> >
> >
> > Those are good questions indeed. Note that the use fee is
> > *much* more limited in the case of Systems than in the case
> > of Visual, and in many cases it doesn't apply - such as your
> > downloading example (I *believe* - MPEG LA to confirm or refute)
> >
> > Interestingly MPEG-4 Systems can be used to loop an MPEG-4
> > Visual clip - and the same question *is* pertinent.
> >
> > I have asked similar questions in the past, such as what with
> > two videos that are meant to run in parallel in two windows,
> > but can also run sequentially.
> >
> > Holger's question seems to contain a misunderstanding on the
> > use fee, namely that it applies to encoding. As I understand
> > the license, this is not the case. Rather, the use fee
> > applies to the content being transmitted, served, packaged,
> > etc. Again, MPEG LA to confirm or correct.
> >
> > Rob
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mikael Bourges-Sevenier [mailto:mikael sevenier.com]
> > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2023 11:19
> > To: rob.koenen m4if.org; 'Holger Grahn - Bitmanagement';
> > 'M4IF Discussion List'
> > Subject: RE: [M4IF Discuss] FW: MPEG-4 Audio Licensing begins
> >
> >
> > Rob,
> >
> > even if we can't answer for the licensing fees, Holger asks
> > an important question (that was asked since early last year)
> > regarding Systems licensing.
> >
> > From my understanding, Systems licensing follows Video
> > licensing but the usage fee doesn't make any sense. For
> > example, you can produce a few bytes long scene that can run
> > indefinitely (animation loop). Downloading this would take a
> > fraction of a second so what do pay for under the "usage
> > fee"? What does "usage" means in this case?
> >
> > Maybe an MPEG LA reprentative can explain us?
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Mike
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: discuss-admin lists.m4if.org
> > [mailto:discuss-admin lists.m4if.org] On Behalf Of Rob Koenen (M4IF)
> > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2023 10:10 AM
> > To: 'Holger Grahn - Bitmanagement'; M4IF Discussion List
> > Subject: RE: [M4IF Discuss] FW: MPEG-4 Audio Licensing begins
> >
> >
> > Holger,
> >
> > I wouldn't know; who pays licensing fees is none of my business.
> >
> > Some licenses have a threshold that may apply. Some
> > information is on licensors' websites.
> >
> > You should ask the people that make software available if you
> > really want to know.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Rob
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Holger Grahn - Bitmanagement
> > [mailto:holger.grahn bitmanagement.de]
> > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2023 14:02
> > To: rob.koenen m4if.org; M4IF Discussion List
> > Cc: M4IF news
> > Subject: Re: [M4IF Discuss] FW: MPEG-4 Audio Licensing begins
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Rob,
> >
> > just curious,
> > are all these companies/institutions/projects/individuals
> > offering public download MPEG-4 stuff paying MPEG-LA /System
> > /Audio/Video fees ?
> >
> > Or are these downloads are somehow illegal offerings, or will
> > these free downloads stop at the end of the year because of
> > the initial grace periods and they all get sued ? What is for
> > example with Divx Networks, MPEG4IP - mp4creator, IBM's
> > Authoring tools ? and btw how to measure royalties for
> > encoders, especially Systems encoders producing scene graph
> > files which can run an endless animations ?
> >
> > Greetings
> >
> > Holger
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Rob Koenen (M4IF)
> > To: M4IF Discussion List
> > Cc: M4IF news
> > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2023 7:56 PM
> > Subject: [M4IF Discuss] FW: MPEG-4 Audio Licensing begins
> >
> >
> > I tired to send this message to the news list twice
> > yesterday, but there are some problems with that list.
> > Hopefully thisd does work.
> > Rob
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rob Koenen (M4IF) [mailto:rob.koenen m4if.org]
> > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2023 11:16
> > To: 'M4IF news'
> > Subject: MPEG-4 Audio Licensing begins
> > M4IF News Readers,
> > The news that MPEG-4 Audio licensing has begun was just
> > released on the news wire.
> > I think this is great news for MPEG-4 Audio, which includes
> > MPEG-4 AAC. I hope - and expect - that this will enable
> > deployment of many interoperable services and devices with
> > great audio quality.
> > Kind Regards,
> > Rob Koenen
> > President, M4IF
> >
> >
>
>
>
More information about the Discuss
mailing list